When a Local Shooting Becomes a National Story
I first heard this story on my local local news. A homeowner shot and killed three teens in an apparent robbery attempt gone wrong. Sadly, the only thing different about this incident was that the would be robbers ended up dead. It occurred near my old hometown. I hoped I didn’t know anyone involved. I thought it was sad. I didn’t expect it to become a national story.
But later that day, I’d be reading about it in the Washington Post. Why? It’s a local story. Not a surprise that the local news was covering. But why was it making NATIONAL news? I can only assume that it’s because of the weapon involved. News reports say that the homeowner “possibly” used an AR-15. The media is also using this case to reignite the debate over “stand your ground” laws. The police have not released many details, as the investigation is ongoing. But the neighbors and witnesses are talking to the press.
And as usual in today’s political climate, everyone is using this to reaffirm their previously held positions on guns. Gun owners cite this case as proof that AR-15’s not only CAN be used in self defense, but that superior firepower is a necessity when facing armed criminals (one of the robbers was apparently armed with a Glock that he fired at the homeowner before being shot himself.) Gun opponents see it as another example of overkill. Lost in all the posturing are the three dead kids.
Don’t get me wrong: this seems to be a clear cut case of self defense. The homeowner was returning from work around 4AM when he was apparently confronted in his yard by the three teens. One was armed. All had their faces covered. They were apparently attempting a robbery. Reports said the armed boy fired first. “Stand your ground” or not, when someone fires on you’re justified in firing back. Still, I’m appalled at the lack of empathy. The dead kids were 15 and 16 years old. They are clearly dead because of their own actions. But that doesn’t mean they “deserved to die” as some have commented.
Three lives are lost and countless others are changed. The shooter himself is reportedly devastated. Neighbors say he cried all night afterwards. He protected his life and his family, but he will be haunted by these deaths for the rest of his life. His neighbor who saw a young man die in his yard is also traumatized. Brian Jenkins told reporters that he heard the gunshots and found one young man mortally wounded on his front yard, clutching his chest. “I told him that he wasn’t going to die, and he died.” “It is very, very tragic for these young men … to die like that just hurts me. I’m crushed, and so is the shooter.” These young men had families that loved them. Neighbors held a vigil for them this week. The neighborhood is shaken. None of these people asked to be dragged into our national debate on guns. But now, they are.
Eventually, the reporters will leave. The debate will move on to the next shooting. But the people involved in this tragedy will still be hurting. We shouldn’t ever take that lightly.
Thanks for writing this.Report
And of course, if the police killed an armed robber (who shot at them) with one of their AR-15s, the conversation might be about police use of force, but no one would be talking about weapons of war on our streets.
Well, some of the folks here would be, but the media wouldn’t.Report
You’ve mentioned before your belief that at least parts of gun culture trail law enforcement culture. I think there’s a lot of truth to that, and I think it’s where some of the cavalier attitudes about justified shootings come from.
This shows the reality in all its horrid complexity. I’m glad this guy was able to defend himself, but it isn’t cost free. The outcome is preferable to hoping for mercy from masked guys at 4 AM and better them than him. Yet there’s no way around the fact that a whole bunch of lives are probably ruined.Report
Thing is, I expect certain parts of gun culture to shrug at this (if not essentially celebrating) this shooting, or any police shooting.
What irks me is how the media decries civilians using those weapons, but seem fine with the police using them. It further encourages the idea that the police are at war and need weapons of war.Report
I don’t agree. There’s a lot of overlap between dislike of military-style weapons for civilians and opposition to the militarization of the police. It’s the NRA and the GOP Right that want the police to be armed to the teeth and their use of weapons never to be questioned.Report
That has to he one of the cutest things I’ve ever read.Report
There is overlap among certain groups of activists (I know lots of gun control types who’d prefer our police be armed more like the UK, where firearms have to be checked for special occasions).
But the media,… they might care that the police have killed a person, but they never care about the weapon employed. If a cop kills someone with a handgun, or a shotgun, or a patrol rifle, or a sniper rifle, that is maybe mentioned in passing. But if a civilian kills someone, the type of gun used is VERY important. It’s a huge part of the conversation, about how dangerous such weapons are in civilian hands, etc.
As if the police are not civilians.Report
I think there are probably some activist groups out there of that persuasion but there’s no serious constituency for it in mainstream politics. The most gun hostile jurisdictions have police depts just as heavily armed as anywhere else, probably moreso in many blue cities and inner ring suburbs where law enforcement is better funded.
Actions speak louder than polite conversation at cocktail parties, and there aren’t a lot of GOP or NRA types in those mayors offices and county councils.Report
I’ve given up expecting anything resembling a coherent perspective from the media on the issue. There are too many ideological, class, and commercial forces pushing against it.
I might not agree with it but a disarmament movement putting an equal or even greater focus on taking weapons out of the hands of the state would be worth taking seriously. Corporate journalists don’t have the imagination for that. To the extent they feel themselves to be a fourth estate, I think they’d unironically see it as disarming the good guys, which of course includes them.Report
Teens are killed at twice the rate in car related deaths than guns. That’s 2x the heartbreak. Where’s the outrage? NADA. And I’m not even going to delve into how many of those gun deaths are crime related (drugs, etc.)Report
“Until deaths from auto accidents are reduced to zero no one can advocate any non-car related regulations'”Report
“some things outrage us…some we don’t care about”Report
‘Teens are killed at twice the rate in car related deaths than guns”
That sentence isn’t doing what you think it does.
The only acceptable cause of death for a teenager should be accidental death from adolescent things like careless driving or bungee jumping.
Teenagers should die from accidents ten times, a hundred times, more than from gunfire.Report
The same thing has happened with knives and swords for thousands of years. It’s still happening in Britain today, even with kids on mopeds using knives or battery acid as weapons. Disarming the potential victims doesn’t seem to help, and the policy pursuing every last weapon leads to nonsense such as the Scottish man who is facing five years in prison for possession of a potato peeler.
The obvious problem is that groups of fifteen and sixteen year old kids shouldn’t be out committing armed burglaries and attempted murders at 4 AM. They can’t act that way very long before it doesn’t end well for somebody, yet the behavior has become extremely common in many areas, where small parties of not-yet-men trying to prove their manhood to each other by intimidating, fighting, and perhaps killing random targets to get respect and collect trophies.
Without proper socialization and intense parenting, young men easily become absolute nightmares. Their natural inclination is to take extreme risks to establish their status and reputation as brave warriors who will ambush and kill neighboring villagers. Young males are expendable, so even if half of them die doing something stupid, it shows that the surviving half are fitter than average.
Peer pressure pushes borderline kids into such groups because the young toughs are out proving their manhood, bragging about their dominance, as if they’ve found a short-cut to being a feared and respected alpha-male. The more adult trouble they get into, the more adult they are. And then someone ruins it all by fighting back like they were actual adults.Report
Periodically, there is a debate over abortion and one of the few remaining pro-lifers shows up. When he (inevitably a he) shows up, it gives those who care about women enough to think that they should be in control over their own sexual destinies to ask “what about rape, incest, or the mother’s life in danger?”
And, of course, the pro-lifer runs off, tail between his legs, because of that question.
Welp, the gun folks have this one.Report
I’m somewhat curious what question is being asked here.
In abortion, the social truth is somewhat unresolved, but what I hear the most is that life begins with a heartbeat, and after that questions about rape, incest and a mother’s life in danger, pivot on the value of the life. Is a living thing less valuable because of rape? Is a living thing less valuable because of incest? Is a living thing of less value because of a mother’s life is in danger?
Note I’m not actually looking in a answer from a law perspective, but from a social truth perspective, which should inform us of the social truth. Is a babies life less important than someone who has committed a felony life threatening action? Why would you give that living thing a second chance, but not this other life a first chance who has done nothing wrong?
There are several things I have been thinking about after reading the post. The one topic at the forefront is empathy. What demands can we ask of empathy? For some reason it made me think of that phrase: Respect must be earned. That made me question whether empathy should be earned.
The reality is that I don’t know these folks. I don’t know if this was really out of character for the teens, or if this was a monthly occurrence in their behavior pattern. I guess I could default and just assume it was a one off occurrence, but that may be putting empathy where it doesn’t belong. Trying to discern what the feelings of teens who were engaged in this activity is a questionable task. Live and let live is one of those primary baseline rule of law things that is seen in every long term civilization concerned with having a future. Something terribly wrong would have had to happen for these teens to not be aware of it and remained some type of mystery.
Some one could make the case that these teens didn’t know, and I guess my response to that would be this is the sort of thing you would expect to happen if that was the case.
One thing that does tilt more to the objective truth is that survival must be earned.
In the end I also don’t really know if any of this is my business. Is it my business that a person defended themselves? Is it my business to know enough about far away teens to invoke a showing of empathy? Is it my business to be concerned about the method in which someone defended themselves? Is it my business to choose what is or isn’t acceptable for someone else to protect themselves?
Is it my business to know how potential mothers value babies lives?
How resolved is our social truth in these matters? How resolved do we want it to be?Report
And so you see how we could argue against home ownership of guns, even when given an example of someone shooting at a homeowner when he is at his home.
Because it’s not about the things that got us to this awful point. It’s not about what could have been done differently by bad actors.
It’s about the guns that were used to kill in self-defense.Report
I guess I am still missing nuance in your point, or maybe that is the point. Only after awful points and the actions of bad actors, is there a threshold of badness to really reflect upon. Is there some assumption that will ever not be the case, or are you getting at something else?Report
This is an example of why people’s gun ownership should not be infringed. A pretty clear-cut one. The guy was defending himself at his own house against people who fired on him first.
I mean, it’s an awful situation but it’s as clear-cut as it gets.
Only people willing to bite the bullet would argue that this guy shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun. All of the other debates about stuff like open carry or whathaveyou are secondary. Gun confiscation says that this guy shouldn’t have been allowed to defend himself with a gun.
And arguments that gun confiscation would have kept a gun out of the hands of the criminals trying to rob him (Or the one who shot at him which is reasonably described as “trying to kill him”)? The argument has to say “oh, yeah, those criminals wouldn’t have been armed.” I dunno about you but I find that assertion less than perfectly persuasive.Report
I promise that if Gun Confiscation comes around here and says that this guy shouldn’t have been allowed to defend himself with a gun, I will be the first one to debate him.Report
Not that I agree with Gun Confiscation, but Gun Confiscation argues that this guy shouldn’t have had the gun to defend himself with.
Perhaps I should comfort myself with the knowledge that, seriously, Gun Confiscation is absurd and nobody is arguing for Gun Confiscation so playing devil’s advocate on behalf of Gun Confiscation is risible.Report
We should also comfort ourselves with the knowledge that “Guns” covers everything from a tripod mounted .50 caliber machine gun to a derringer, and that equating them all would be silly.Report
Hey, so long as we’re back to nobody arguing for things, I guess we’re good.
Why would we even want to pretend that anybody wants to take guns away?
Nobody wants to take your guns away.Report
No one wants to take away machine guns?Report
Just gathering information here. How many of you have ever been in an armed civilian defense situation? If you have, what weapon did you have? How many shots did you fire?Report
Once.
I faced three attackers. I had a 6 foot section of 2″ chain and a strong desire to stove their heads in with it.
They decided that since they lacked firearms of their own, I wasn’t worth the trouble.Report
Do you have a data point to share?Report
Faced three, some had tire irons, the ringleader was a big bastard, and tall.
I had no weapons, they weren’t interested in a peaceful resolution, they struck first.Report
1. 1972, a group of 1-15 feral squirrels invaded our peach orchard.
2. I used a .22 rimfire bolt action rifle;
3. I fired as many rounds as I could, until Mom told me to stop.Report
Edit:
That should read “10 to 15 feral squirrles”
P.S. The squirrels were unarmed.Report
Good thing you clarified, because those feral I-15 squirrels are no joke, especially the ones down by Escondido. Right viscous little rodents! You are lucky to have made it out with all your fingers and toes intact!Report
For a couple years when I was a kid I was a squirrel assassin, paid by farmers to clear out their woodlots. Stubby little single-shot .22 carbine. With few exceptions, one round per squirrel.
More seriously, to CJ’s question, I have never found myself in a self-defense situation involving another human. Just lucky, I guess.Report
Edit:
That should read “10 to 15 feral squirrels”
P.S. It was later determined that the squirrels were unarmed. But I was determined to stand my ground.Report