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    • AvatarJaybird in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week Total(I kinda started my lockdown on the 12th. Maribou started hers a few days before that.)
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Jaybird on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week Totaland it’s barely been a month of the lockdown. Time dilation. San Francisco was one of the first cities to lockdown. It started on March 16th. In Colorado the lockdown started on March 25. It feels like longer...
    • AvatarJaybird in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalShort-resilient networks have disparate impact and are worse than nationalist: they're localist. Capital is now unbound by borders. And if they don't like the laws where they are, they will just move to Somalia.
    • Avatargreginak in reply to Stillwater on Andrew Yang, Bringer of PestilenceOh i blame it on yang completely. Twitter is just the venue where people rush to announce their dumbest thoughts. Bill Mitchell is on there are often fills the bill on today's dumbest thing ever.
    • Avatargreginak in reply to Jaybird on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalSome are. We'll see how that changes by the end of april. Some will still be eager to get out, some will have watched the death toll rise.
    • AvatarJaybird in reply to greginak on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalIn the real world, people are champing the bit to go back out to have gatherings and it's barely been a month of the lockdown. I don't even know that we've internalized "if you die in the real world, you die in real life" yet.
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to greginak on Andrew Yang, Bringer of PestilenceWhy blame this on twitter rather than Yang?
    • AvatarAaron David in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalNo, I am not saying that "re-write the code" wasn't worth it, I am saying that the panic that was expressed in the media at the time wasn't worth it. But I did sell a lot of books on it, making (for me) big money.
    • AvatarKolohe on Joykillers! The SunburnMy understanding is that having a tan had long been the exact opposite of a status symbol until Coco Channel popularized it right around this time.
    • Avatarveronica d in reply to veronica d on Kids! What’s The Matter With Kids Today?Edit: He stood up before it was popular to stand up.
    • Avatargreginak in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalWell the response and the pre-exsisting inequalities. Ahh i see. "best response..." Yeah i've hear about trumps shitposting. But in the real world however.....
    • Avatargreginak on Andrew Yang, Bringer of PestilenceTwitter is the place to go when you want to say " That is the dumbest f'ing thing i've ever heard" everyday.
    • AvatarMarchmaine in reply to Jaybird on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalSure... if the big takeway is that organizations realize the horrible liability that people are and re-double and double again efforts to automate... I mean, why offshore to India?... the coronavirus story from India hasn't been written yet. Why not a sort of Butlerian jihad in favor of solidarity -- finally we all see how important it is to have short-resilient networks? My initial comment is that we don't know what the Apres la guerre stories will be until we see what paths we take now. I'm mostly objecting to the Pre-spinning of the outcome. An outcome we haven't seen.
    • Avatargreginak on Kids! What’s The Matter With Kids Today?Lots of stuff here. I agree kids are pretty much the same as they have always been for better and worse. People often project on kids their own fears. One of the problems i have with the culture critique is how vague and ill defined it is. Movies/tv is certainly part of culture. But so is church and the local vfw and little league and backyard bbq's. Kids are affected by what is around them, but that is everything, not just the splashy media. Parents/family have years where they are pretty much all the kids know before media culture starts becoming more prominent. In our early years parents have tremendous sway to form, or F up, our personalities. I'm not going to do a lit search or dig into the pile of studies in my drawers but there is amply evidence of parents influence on kids temperament. Certainly the children of people with mental health problems, high conflict divorce or alcoholism show significant affects from their parents. What has changed quite a bit over the last half century is the ability for people to move away to be different people. Before ww2 most people would live near where they grew up which brought much more pressure to not change and to conform. Now that people can and do move there is more freedom to be different. This used to happen a long time ago but people told different stories about and didnt see it. Among the many old Alaskan legends people love to tell their kids is about old gold rushes. Hard working men come to make their fortune then go bac…
    • AvatarLeeEsq in reply to Kazzy on Hammers and HangnailsEarning a living so you can eat, pay rent and bills, etc. Not everybody has a job that can be done online.
    • AvatarMarchmaine in reply to greginak on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalThat strikes me as a reflection on the response, not the virus itself. But I'm told this is the best possible response we can have... so.
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Aaron David on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalMy FIL made (for him) massive amounts of money in semi-retirement re-writing FAA code in advance of Y2K over an 18 month or so lead time. Not sure what your point is here. Is it that because planes didn't fly into each other, and banks' computer systems didn't collapse the whole "re-write the code" effort was a mistake?
    • AvatarJaybird on Joykillers! The SunburnJustin Trudeau, 1928.
    • Avatargreginak in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalIt isn't just affecting 1% regardless of class though. It is hitting POC and poor/working class folk harder. Not solely them but not an even distribution.
    • AvatarJaybird in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week Total1% of deaths that hit cities harder than suburbia and results in 33% unemployment for 3-6 months is going to require a handful of changes (including new ways to think about employment gaps). Plus there's the problem of "if your job can be done remotely, it's offshorable".
    • AvatarJaybird in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalWord.
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalWell, seems to me we're only disagreeing at the edges. Your view is that this event isn't big enough to be transformative, so it won't be. My view is that this event actually *is* big enough to be transformative, but it won't be. Could be that I'm more cynical than you are.
    • AvatarMarchmaine in reply to Jaybird on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalI don't know yet. A disease that strikes 1% regardless of race/class? I'm willing to acknowledge our institutions are brittle... but aside from the sorrow and suffering I'm not seeing the virus causing revolution. The response to the virus? One that shifts the sorrow and suffering disparately to some rather than all? Sure, that could spark some vigorous civil disobedience. Has any government figured out a way to do that yet?
    • AvatarAaron David in reply to veronica d on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalFunny you should mention Y2K, as it has been on the forefront of my mind. And you paranthetical is on point, only that at this point it remains to be seen if it isn't some sort of repeat situation.
    • AvatarMarchmaine in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalFor a month with $2.2T aid, no... no it wouldn't. Now, the thing none of us know is whether we'll have 32% unemployment for 6-months without another - bigger - bailout... or, after we get a testing regime is it sticky at, say, 22% for a year... those are all unknowns. So, we don't really know what 32% unemployment means, since even this time we're doing 32% unemployment with $2.2T in aid to workers and businesses. I'm not saying that *nothing* is happening, I'm saying that 32% unemployment is known and baked into the 1-2 month cake. I agree - and have said - that the Aid buys us a 30-60 day quarantine... if 60-days from now nothing has changed, then I definitely anticipate a collapse of the quarantine. At that point we'll have another assessment of what before/after might look like.... pending developments in testing, treating and mitigation.
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Michael Cain on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalIt appears so. Newsome said the test is "hours, not days" away from FDA approval. The article I read indicated that the test was somehow linked to United Biomedical, whose ownership lives in Telluride, so all 8000 Tellies are gonna get the test for free. (United Biomedical ownership donated something like 16,000 Covid tests to Telluride to provide cost-free blanket testing of the county's residents *after* Polis switched the State's free testing site from downtown Denver (major urban center) to Telluride (small but wealthy town at the end of a box canyon). I've been following this weird little bit of Colorado politics for a bit now.)
    • Avatarveronica d in reply to Aaron David on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalI am talking about deaths, and if people don’t see them, actual bodies en mass, than it will look even more like peolple don’t give a shit about what the catastrophists are chicken littling about. That's the paradox here. An effective intervention will appear unnecessary, because it works. It's a bit like the Y2K thing. (The difference is, in the Y2K case, the media made a big shitstorm about it to the general public, who really didn't have anything to worry about, because of the efforts of the tech folks. By contrast, this requires effort from all of us.)
    • AvatarAaron David in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalI am talking about deaths, and if people don't see them, actual bodies en mass, than it will look even more like peolple don't give a shit about what the catastrophists are chicken littling about. The 32% unemployment rate will cause carnage from the massive societal damage from idiots destroying an economy over what is essentially nothing.
    • Avatarveronica d on Kids! What’s The Matter With Kids Today?I think we need to distinguish the kids today thing from the more general societal narcissism. The latter is real. Our society is image obsessed. We want signifiers. We care less about substance. We want the spotlight and the glory. We'd rather skip the hard work. Note, this isn't about "kids today." It's about adults too. Also note, when you see a movie about kids, it was written and produced by adults. ##### On the whole "repression kills" thing, I know you didn't really touch on the LGBTQ thing, but heck yeah repression can kill. When I see a movie such as Footloose or Frozen, I see a queer subtext. In real life, I know kids (now young adults) who had to choose between hormone therapy and a college education -- because they can't get financial aid if their parents have $$$, and their parents make college conditional on being str8. What should the kid do? I'll say this, if you're a cis person, you probably don't really understand the scope of the decision. At least, you can't have a visceral understanding. You might try to think of an analogy, such as the parent who wants their kid to "get an education" versus "become a musician," but it's not really the same. That's just one example of the kinds of things I have personally seen. I've seen worse, much worse. Repression kills. [Insert here long discussion of how horrible gender dysphoria is. Add deeply personal examples from my life, and from people I've known. I don't feel like typing all of that again.] Anyway, it's easy t…
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Aaron David on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalWould a 32% unemployment rate constitute massive carnage?
    • AvatarMichael Cain in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalDidn't Stanford start testing one on 2,500 or so volunteers yesterday?
    • AvatarKazzy in reply to LeeEsq on Hammers and HangnailsWhat do you mean by “physical needs”?
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Jaybird on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalWe *need* an antibody test, like right now. Like yesterday.
    • AvatarLeeEsq in reply to gabriel conroy on Hammers and HangnailsI don't think Saul is coming from so much as a liberty perspective. Rather he is coming from a people can only deal with quarantine for x amount of time before they start suffering mental health issues and their physical needs take over perspective.
    • AvatarJaybird in reply to DensityDuck on Chill Out: The Story Behind the DC Universe’s Most Important, Anonymous FigureKinda maybe? I don't know of any that have done so with a modern (post 1986, I mean) sensibility.
    • AvatarLeeEsq in reply to gabriel conroy on Hammers and HangnailsI can see the logic in all sorts of predictions but it is really hard to suss it out. The argument that Covid-19 is going to be really hard on non-chains is based roughly on the idea that the landlords will kick all the tenants out for non-payment of rent/mortgage if the business owns the land and nobody will have money to pay for their goods or services. My problem with the first part regarding evictions is that nobody is paying rent and many states declared a rent/mortgage moratorium for the quarantine. Since nobody is paying rent and the Covid-19 virus might decrease the rental value of properties, many landlords might find it more pragmatic to just let existing tenants continue so they can earn money sooner than latter. There might also be political intervention against Covid-19 ejections. That could save many local businesses. The idea of only chains surviving rests is also based on the idea that consumers would be willing to deal with this. At least in major metropolitan areas, consumer tastes have grown more sophisticated due to increased wealth and knowledge. I can't imagine the Bay Area resident dealign with a situation where the fanciest restaurant is Ruby Tuesdays and all hair cuts are done at home or Supercuts. There will be demand for more boutique goods and services. On the other hand, most landlords can decide to act in a short-sighted manner and the resulting Covid-19 depression can easily cause even rather affluent consumers to lower their expectations and li…
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Stillwater on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalHere's a quote from St. Louis Fed Res President Bullard: “This is a special quarter, and once the virus goes away and if we play our cards right and keep everything intact, then everyone will go back to work and everything will be fine. He also said he didn't think he economy or jobs market was in "free fall". lol It's like he didn't even read his own report!
    • AvatarJaybird in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalIn the absence of a vaccine/medication-that-works (and both of those have to be *AFFORDABLE*… like, somewhere around "free"), we're stuck with a disease that will make most cities in the US look like what's happening in NYC right now. Maybe the best plan is to power through and get the herd immunity and, yes, people will die and not just the elderly and not just the otherwise infirm. But, let's face it, staying home is unsustainable too (especially taking into account the fact that only the upper and upper-middle classes can stay home and, from there, they have to rely on the lower middle classes and lower to act as hired help). And so I'm back to my old question. What kind of problem do we think we're in? I'm hoping it's A. If it can't be A, I'm hoping it's between A and B. If it can't be between A and B, I'm hoping it's B. But I'm worried it's C. And if it's C, we're going to learn that a lot of our socially constructed concepts have durability problems.
    • AvatarAaron David in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalThis strikes me as the correct (at least moreso) take. We aren't seeing massive carnage, as we are at 10k deaths as of today. That is from two or so months of the virus "rampaging" through our society. If you compare that to the 3,600 deaths per day from auto accidents, it is no wonder people are not going to treat it as some world changing event like Spanish flu. So, unless something radical happens, causing Covid to rapidly change, this is going to increase: https://www.chron.com/news/article/Despite-stay-at-home-orders-6-out-of-10-are-on-15179476.php
    • AvatarStillwater in reply to Marchmaine on Carnage: 6.6 Million in Initial Jobless Claims, 10 Million Two Week TotalRight now it feels like a mashup of 9/11 and TARP. In a couple months, if/when unemployment sits at 32% it'll feel a bit like something else. It doesn't feel like a transformative event right now because the ground is only beginning to shift.