Hippidy Hop
(This is a post from our own Chris.)
A few weeks ago over at Blinded Trials (when it was over somewhere), The League’s, er… Ordinary Time’s resident legal expert and Simpsons cartoon character Burt Likko said: “There is some culture I wish I knew more about: hip hop.” Oops! You can’t say things like that around the sorts of people who hang around these parts!
This inevitably led to several of us discussing potential intro-to-hop-hop playlists, and this discussion turned into an idea for a series of posts by different hip hop fans, with the theme of introducing hip hop to Burt, or someone like Burt, who would like to know more about the music and the culture, but isn’t sure where to begin and maybe has some reservations about some of the music’s content. This is the first post in that series. Burt is entirely to blame for everything that follows!
First, a note and a parental advisory:
This post and those of the other participants in the Mindless Diversions hip hop symposium (of sorts) will not be able to explain hip hop to you, or give you a complete sense of what hip hop is “about.” It’s not simply that we are a bunch of white men, and hip hop has a deep connection to black American culture that we’re incapable of capturing fully, or even that, regardless of our skin color, we are for the most part not very typical hip hop listeners, since many of the artists we like lie somewhere outside of the mainstream, and in some cases well so (I’m looking at you cLOUDDEAD). The most serious limitation with these posts will be that we’re focusing almost exclusively on hip hop music, while hip hop is much, much more than music. It is a broad, diverse culture, with many of its own subcultures not only across the United states, but across the world. Fully appreciating the music requires more knowledge of the culture than we could possibly convey to you here. For example, hip hop is constantly and endlessly self-referential, with artists frequently referring to the work of other artists from throughout its history. What’s more, hip hop’s lexicon, which can change at a dizzying speed, never really discards its words or phrases, so that they often pop up again years, even decades after they went out of style, which can make keeping track of hip hop music’s various dialects difficult even for serious fans. Social media like Twitter, which hip hop culture has embraced, make things even more difficult to follow without a high degree of immersion in the culture and some knowledge of its history.
I tell you all of this not to scare you away, but in the hope that, if you are new to hip hop, you might consider this your starting point, not as a complete introduction or guide.
PARENTAL ADVISORY: Hip hop, like most genres of popular music in the last half a century, often talks about sex and drugs, and cussing is pretty common. What may be different about rap, if you don’t listen to it very often, is the frequent use of the n-word. Before each song I’ve included a warning about which of these things the song contains, using the following symbols: C = Cussing, D = Drugs, N = N-word, S = Sex, A(sshole) = Blatant Sexism. If you get to a song with whichever of these symbols represents something that bothers you, I recommend skipping that song.
C D
Hip hop: is a style of dress, a movement to music, a mural spray painted on the side of a building, a beat, a flow, a DJ in a club thumping the bass so hard you can feel it in the tips of your fingers. Hip hop: is a life that some people step out of bed into, and some people live only when headphones meet their ears and the beat finds them. Me: I am somewhere in between, closer to the headphones than the bed, but living it enough that I’ve watched the ripples in my beer at a club on occasion. I don’t know that I am the best person to introduce anyone to hip hop, but I do know that it is a music that moves me, and that I am eager to share.
I would love to start with a brief history of the music and the culture, taking you back to dance parties in the Bronx in 1972, where records were mixed together and manipulated to keep people dancing, or to when, some time after that, someone tried rapping to the mixes, and it worked. Then I could give you a tour, musically, of the road hip hop took to get to where it is today, with the party music and story-telling of the 80s, then the hard core sounds of the streets of L.A. in West Coast and G-Funk gangster rap, and the equally hard core sounds of the streets of New York in the East Coast style. Then I might bring you to the point in the history of hip hop at which the deadly wave of hype and anger and money crashed on the jagged shores of the industry-created and industry-hyped East-West coastal rivalry, costing hip hop its two brightest stars, and leaving many of its artists and its fans in funk for several years. At that point you’d find the song at the top of this post, Black Star’s “Definition,” in which Yasiin Bey (then Mos Def) and Talib Kweli (always Talib Kweli) lament the violent turn hip hop culture has taken, when everyone feels like they have to out hard everyone else. Finally we’d arrive at a mature hip hop, and its mid-decade rennaisance that continues today with a seemingly endless spring of talented new artists and reinvigorated told-times.
I would love to do all of that, but I worry that I have limited space and you have limited time, and that much of that music is more meaningful, and more accessible, if you encountered it in its time, at least without lengthy explanation and contextualization. It stands to reason, then, if I want to bring you into hip hop, if you’re not already here, I should start with the music that is still in its time, the music of today, or at least of the last decade, and my giving you Bey and Kweli is merely me cheating in order to start with one of my favorite songs. From here on then, let’s you and I live in the now, and let the music do the talking.
Whatever you think of his personality, or at least his public persona, the now in hip hop begins with Kanye West. Much of where hip hop is today began when Eminem decided to stop being a cartoon character, and Kanye West decided to go into the recording booth instead of standing outside of it (he was a popular producer, working extensively with Jay-Z, before going solo). These two artists, especially West, made the Midwest the center of hip hop for much of the 2000s. West coast style, as is geographically understandable, is a bit of an amalgam of the East and West coast styles of the 90s, and on his early albums you can hear Snoop and Dre from the West, and Jay-Z and Rakim from the East, in just about everything Kanye does, but he had a voice of his own too, and part of it was in his largeness and its introspectiveness. This is what other Midwestern artists have taken from him. Consider Chicago’s Lupe Fiasco:
C N
Fiasco has a bit of an old-school feel, but with hop culture has a tendency towards swagger to the point of stand-offishness, Lupe’s habit of wearing his heart, and his social consciousness, on his sleeve, and in his music (and famously, on Twitter) – here he can’t even rap about rap without being conflicted – can be refreshing.
Now try Cleveland’s Kid Cudi (with rockers MGMT and Ratatat):
C
Cudi is so out there that even he calls himself a Martian, and he titled two of his albums “Man on the Moon.” His music is one part psychedelic electronica, one part experimental rap, one part personal confession, and all parts infectious. Lyrically and musically he’s as talented and original as any mainstream artist today, though long-time fans of the genre might detect hints of KMD and Outkast, with some Kanye thrown in for good measure. Here he is again, telling us just how unique he is, but not without a hint of irony:
C N D
My favorite rapper to come out of the Midwest in the last decade, though, is Chance the Rapper, another Chicagoan:
C N D
I don’t even know what to say about Chance the Rapper. He doesn’t so much much rap as snicker his lyrics through his nose, but what lyrics they are! And the phrasing and flow are almost perfect. When I finish one of his songs I feel disoriented, like maybe I just smoked some of whatever he’s smoking. What just happened? What am I listening to? And why did he tell me everybody hates the Lakers? Oh, but I have to hear some more (this time with California’s Ab-Soul):
C N D S A (a bit)
(If you like Lupe, Cudi, or Chance, you may also enjoy Atmosphere, CunninLynguists, and Brother Ali, Sol, Collosus, Kanye, and maybe some B.o.B..)
In the last few years, the epicenter hip hop has been in the South, New Orleans and Atlanta in particular. Lil Wayne, from New Orleans, is everywhere, and it seems like every other new artists you hear about is from Atlanta. Even popular new artists from elsewhere, like Drake (from Canada), are imitating the southern style. I definitely prefer the New Orleans style to Atlanta’s (though I do dig Atlanta too), with its little bit of the West Coast, little bit of the old school southern, and little bit of Purple (as in the popular concoction of prescription cough medicine, Sprite, and Jolly Ranchers). One of my favorites is from the Crescent City is Curren$y:
C N D
Most of the music Curren$y has released so far has been in the form of mixtapes: low budget collections often with minimal production and a rawer feel. “New Jet City” is a pretty typical example of his style: Snoop-like near comatose laid backness, and the feeling that he’s only loosely beholden to the beat beneath him. I imagine this loose connection to the beat can make him a bit difficult to get into for people just beginning to explore hip hop, so try a more conventional song. He has the first verse here, and fellow New Orleanean Trademark da Skydiver (best… name… ever) has the third, with Phillies Young Roddy in the middle:
C N D A (a bit)
Not everyone coming out of the South is coming out of one of the big hip hop hubs (in addition to New Orleans and Atlanta, Houston and Miami are producing artists at high rates). Take, for example, Big K.R.I.T. From Meridian, MS:
N
His first full length album was criticized for, among other things, being too pop, but his 2013 mixtape King Remembered in Time (you can listen to it all there), which includes the above song. He’s a got a country feel with an old school style that’s reminiscent of NWA and Rakim (like everyone is reminiscent of Rakim).
These days, everyone collaborates. The regional feuds are over (though there are plenty of odd personal feuds). This makes for some really interesting blending of styles and techniques. For example, one of my favorite new songs is Talib Kweli’s “Push Thru,” which features our friend Curren$y (first verse), and a spectacular verse (the third) by Los Angeles’ Kendrick Lamar, with Brooklyn’s Kweli in the middle:
C N D
I love this song, and I could write an entire post just about how awesome Kweli is, but I’ve include it here mostly so I can start gushing on Lamar. When he put out the excellent solo debut, Section.80, he got some attention, and anyone with ears who heard him recognized a star in the making, but his 2012 release good kid, m.A.A.d city has blown everyone away. It is a musical and lyrical masterpiece. Here is one of the singles, which is a big radio hit right now (even my teenage son loves it):
C N D
You might be tempted to think this song is celebrating binge drinking – “first you get a swimming pool full of liquor, then you dive in it” – but listen to the beginning again. This song, and the entire album, is about peer pressure, temptation, and the mistakes that Lamar made, or could have made, as a young man trying to navigate life in Compton.
All I have in life is my new appetite for failure
And I got hunger pain that grow insane
Tell me do that sound familiar
If it do then you’re like me
Making excuse that your relief
Is in the bottom of the bottle
And the greenest indo leaf
As the window open
I release everything that corrode inside of me
I see you joking, why you laugh
Don’t you feel bad
I probably sleep and never ever wake up
Never ever wake up, never ever wake up.
C N
My girlfriend, who’s much closer to the stepping-out-of-bed hip hop fan than I, calls Lamar a “song stylist,” but I think of good kid as more of a one man show. He plays multiple role, with different voices, all in the service of showing us what life was like growing up in Compton.
Before I wrap things up, let me take you outside of the U.S. for a bit. Hip hop may have been born in America, but the rest of the world quickly recognized its potential. Lately I’ve been really enjoying Russian-born artist DJ Vadim:
Rap in France goes back to the 70s, and has been a major cultural and even political force in les banlieues.
Sefyu is heavily influenced by East Coast hip hop artists like Rakim and Wu Tang Clan, as many French rappers were. Fans of those artists may enjoy IAM, Tandem, MC Solaar (who worked with Guru), Suprême NTM, Noyau Dur, and Dabaaz.
If this post is going to have any credibility, I have to end it back in America, so I’ll finish with possibly the greatest rapper of all time, Nas. My writing skills are insufficient to adequately describe his transcendent debut album Illmatic. The Village Voice called it the “platonic ideal of any New York rap,” which, by limiting it to New York, doesn’t fully do it justice. It is 40 minutes of near perfectly rapped lyrics, so evocative of the city streets from which they are drawn that you can almost smell the aslphalt, laid over beds and beats constructed by some of the most talented producers of the day. I’ll let Nas have the last word:
Here’s an extended playlist with these and other songs:
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I don’t even know what to say about Chance the Rapper.
Does he like to watch?Report
Chris,
Great intro! You cover a ton of ground.
A few questions:
1.) When listening and determining a particular artist’s talent, do you tend to focus more on one of the traditional components of rap, namely flow, beat, lyrics, or content? For me, the beat is always what gets me, which is probably why I hold Kanye is as high esteem as I do. His weakest area has always been his lyrics (I get that word play is big in rap… but, seriously man, enough is enough!) but his beats, as you note with all the work he’s done for other people, have always been phenomenal. Curious your thoughts on the matter.
2.) How do you discuss NoLa rap and not mention Juvenile? I mean, I know he is and was Juvenile and that so much of his work was seemingly about women shaking their asses, but he was the first guy to really take NoLa-style to the mainstream. And he introduced us to Weezy, something I am eternally grateful for (though I realize he remains a point of contention). More seriously, something I appreciated about Juvenile was the video aesthetic he achieved for his two major hits (“Back that Azz Up” and “Slow Motion”). No, no… not the ass shaking (though there is plenty of that)… but the venues he shot in I think broke the idea that black/hip-hop culture’s (and by extension, black people) exclusive domain was ghetto urban wastelands. He doesn’t go the bling-bling hyper affluence route, but showed a part of hip-hop culture that always resonated with me because it was more representative of my own experiences than much of else what was going on. I grew up in a suburb of NY with a large population, so house parties, block parties, and park BBQs were what I knew and is what he shows. I’m not sure if I’m explaining this well but it always resonated with me.
3.) Thank you for mentioning NAS. For whatever reason, he never seems to get his due. I can’t figure it out. He crossed into the mainstream without selling out and gets his critical due while having a style that is accessible more casual fans… yet he rarely is recognized for being one of the best ever. Any thoughts on that?Report
Kazzy, thank you.
1.) It depends. To me, there are two categories of rap (they have fuzzy boundaries, so there’s a lot of overlap): rap for dancing and conversational rap. For the former, I always hear the beats and flow first, for the latter it’s the flow and the lyrics. An example of the latter (which I link not just because I love to hear Anna Wise’s voice; she does a couple songs with CunninLynguists and a short verse on a Kendrick Lamar song). Kanye is somewhere in between, and sometimes he has really good lyrics (his first album is full of them, and his recent one is as well, plus I always crack up at the line, “What you think I rap for, to push a f____in’ Rav4?”). Most of the New Orleans stuff I listen to (there’s some A$AP Rocky on the playlist) is strictly for the beat, and it’s meant to dance to. Curren$y is an exception.
2.) I probably should have mentioned Juvenile, but New Orleans rap really only became ascendant with Lil Wayne. There was a time, really up until about a year ago, when I couldn’t turn on rap radio for 20 minutes and not hear either a Lil Wayne song or a song featuring Lil Wayne. It drove me crazy, because I’m not really a fan. But now everyone is imitating that “Young Money” sound, and the style too (you know that thing that Weezy and Drake do where they complete the sentence without a rhyme and then throw end an associated word at the end for the rhyme). For the same reason, I should have said something about Scarface (he’s on the playlist, though), because he’s pretty much the godfather of mainstream southern hip hop.
Oh, I should note that one of the big factors in the spread of New Orleans hip hop was Katrina. I’d never really heard much of the New Orleans style, particularly the stuff made for line dancing in clubs, until several thousand young people were transplanted in Austin in the days and weeks after Katrina. I remember going to a club in early 2006 that had, up to that point, been mostly Houston hip hop, and then hearing stuff that was unlike I’d ever heard before, and seeing people (well, women) do a dance that was unlike anything I’d ever seen before (basically versions of the stanky legg). At the time I hated it, because a lot of it is a beat and some hastily constructed lines about purple or weed, but I’ve grown to appreciate it, and it’s gotten more sophisticated as its spread.
3.) Nas is the greatest rapper of all time, period. No one has come close to Illmatic (an album with great beats, great flows, and some of the best lyrics ever), and his post-Illmatic stuff has with few exceptions been spectacular as well. One of the things that I find most impressive about Nas is that in pretty much every different hip hop crowd, you’ll find people who will say that Nas is their favorite rapper. I can’t think of anyone else like that. He transcends various cultural, age, and taste differences.Report
Re: Lil’ Wayne
Given how much he and Drake collaborated and how much Drake emulates Lil’ Wayne, there were a number of songs where I just threw up my hands and was like, “I don’t even know or care which is which.”
Re: Nas
Your point that everyone seems to recognize Nas’s brilliance is what I was attempting to get at. Yet he’s never won a Grammy (despite many nominations) and while many albums have gone #1, he’s never had a single reach even top 10 and only one reach #1 on the rap charts. While his brilliance is undeniable, he never seems to have reached the very, very forefront of the genre. He’s someone that if you ask people to name top rappers, a lot of people will forget, and then if you go, “What about Nas?” the response is, “Oh crap, how did I forget about Nas?” It’s just a weird phenomenon I can’t quite put my finger on.
While we’re at it, when you refer to him as the best “rapper”, what do you mean? I think this goes back to my first question. Are you referring to his literal skills as a rapper, that is writing and delivering lyrics specifically? Or do you mean that he makes the best rap music?Report
I should say best rap artist. There are better rappers out there, as in people who can rap faster or freestyle better or whatever, but he puts out the best rap music.
And I frequently have those “Is this Lil Wayne or Drake” moments. They are such different people, though. Have you ever seen the leaked tape a Lil Wayne deposition? I can’t imagine Drake doing that.Report
It is interesting that we have to break down what we mean by “best” when talking about rappers. I think it shows how the genre is somewhat different than others. And it isn’t just defining “best” but defining the process.
“The Beatles are the greatest band ever.” Agree or disagree, you know what they’re saying.
“Hendrix is the greatest guitarist every.” Again, very clear.
“Nas is the best rapper ever.” A lot less clear. The fact that many rappers don’t write their own beats, making producers and, before them, DJs, integral in a way that they are not in rock music complicates things.Report
Sorry so late to comment on this great piece. My kids were sick and now so am I, so I am thinking, reading, and writing slow, plus I wanted a chance to listen to all the embedded tracks.
Aside from Black Star and Vadim, this is all pretty much new to me. I liked Kendrick Lamar, Chance and Big K.R.I.T. best.
I was worried about the large number of the blatant drug references in the tracks I chose for my piece.
After this, I am…no longer worried these are outliers. Holy cow.
Also, totally random connection, but AFAIK, Nas is the only rapper to ever get name-checked in an Afghan Whigs song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJB6jFAwDNAReport
I thought about figuring out the percentage of songs I listen to in a given day that make drug references — purple, kush, tree, blunts, etc. — but realized that, since I’m just sitting here listening to my Chance the Rapper station on Pandora, I’d be writing down references constantly. And this is all stuff you might hear on the radio… the mainstream hip hop radio.Report
Well, I have to say “Thank you,” because you’ve served up a feast for me here. One which I will have to defer listening to because I first find this at work, and the overwhelming majority of what you’ve posted is clearly marked “unsuitable for the office environment.” And I’ll feel terrible if when I get home and I listen to most of it and then decide partway through that it isn’t really for me after all. Or at least, I would if I didn’t suspect that putting it all together was a pleasure for you.
Nevertheless, it’s an important part of our culture and the primer is worthy. So… awesome, dude.Report
Here are some thoughts and that kind of relate to tagents on the Babbit thread.
I was born in 1980. This makes me part of this first generation (or second) that knew about hip-hop and grew up with it always being around.
IIRC, hip-hop was one of the dominant forms (if not thee dominant form) of music listened to at my upper-middle class suburban high school. My upper middle class suburban high school was overwhelmingly Jewish and Asian.
I was not one of the kids who listened to hip-hop. I sort of fit in with the punk rockers but not really. My musical tastes quickly went to what we would now call indie rock/pop. The type of stuff released by labels like Merge, Kill Rock Stars, Matador, etc. It always felt more relatable to me over the lyrical content of hip-hop. I was always one of the kids who thought it was kind of odd that all of my safe and suburban compatriots would try to mimic hip-hop fashions (to a point) and such.
I agree that music and culture can bridge gaps between people with radically different experiences and hopefully bridge understanding but at what point does it merely become appropriation and trying to be “adolescent tough” to listen to hip-hop. What is the requisite level of awareness.
Though I will admit that it is probably easier to dance to JZ than The Decemberists or Belle and Sebastian.Report
I don’t think that listening to a music is appropriation.
Adopting styles, and trying to act like you’re… Indonesian, say?
That’s appropriation.
I’d hardly think someone singing Enka made them old and fuddyduddy…
(even if they’re black and from pittsburgh).Report
Kim,
I agree but the problem of hip-hop is that it also involves a lot of style appropriation. Though this might be true of all rock forms.Report
Newdealer,
One walks an uneasy line when one appropriates other people’s artforms.
Escaflowne had a bagpipe solo in its OST. I think it worked, and worked well.
I think we often fail to recognize when subcultures appropriate broader cultural tropes. (Shaft being an example of the AA community appropriating the Private Eye trope). It doesn’t trouble us, perhaps because of the ability of subcultures to assert their own authenticity through use of distinctive language and other characteristics.
Vanilla White always has the problem of getting “lost” in its appropriation, taking up too much of what someone else has, and losing itself.
One can absolutely create something that sits well within another style: Elfen Lied’s opening theme music sits squarely within the Latin Liturgical tradition… http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/elfenlied/lilium.htm
I’d say theme-clash is more important than identity clash (on that note, I’d love to hear what you think about US Killbotics soundtrack). But you can see what I listen to.Report
If you’re dancing to the Decemberists, you’re doing it wrong.Report
does writhing in pain count?
i think chance is very interesting, but i have to chuck pretty much all hip hop in the bin of “things i can’t listen to with a kid around”. which sucks but whatevs.Report
Hip hop was meant to be listened to in a club or with headphones on. Presumably you don’t take your kids to clubs, and…Report
Also, Chance is 20, and has so far only released two really popular mixtapes. The first one was recorded while he was still in high school. In fact, it’s called #10 Day, because it came about during a 10-day suspension for skipping school. His second mixtape, Acid Rap, was released back in April, and is really friggin’ good. It’s both really accessible and at the same time odd enough to be interesting over multiple listens. And he’s gotten enough attention (and a pretty big tour) out of this mixtape that I suspect he’s going to keep at it, and I’m hoping he’s only going to get more interesting as he continues to find his voice.Report
My ability to listen is greatly hampered by the fact that I can never listen to it at work. Even when the kids are gone, it is hard to listen to admits middle-aged white folks, most of whom skew conservative. It tends to be what I put on during long car rides.Report
My son’s old enough that I don’t mind listening to most of it while he’s around, though I do try to avoid most of the obvious references to drugs (I’m hoping he doesn’t get most of the less obvious ones), and most of the blatant sexism, though we’ve actually had a few conversations about sexism in hip hop. I mean, his mom cusses more than any hip hop artist, so it’s not like hearing a bunch of F-words is going to affect him, and he probably understands the nuances of the n-word better than I do.
That said, I still mostly listen to rap with headphones on. Part of that is the bass/beats. I don’t have great speakers, but I have some nice headphones, and I like bass. I also find it’s easier to listen to the lyrics with the music right in your ear. That’s how I know that Talib Kweli is probably the only artist whose referred to all three of these writers at least once: Octavia Butler, Toni Morrison, and Milan Kundera.Report
Given that we’re already pretty certain Mayonnaise’s first word will be the N-word, what with watching “Django Unchained” with him in the room when he was less than a week old, I’m working my way through your playlist with him in the room. He really, really enjoyed dancing to “Straight Outa Compton”.
I have to assume I’m in the front running for Parent of the Year at this point.Report
“Hip hop was meant to be listened to in a club or with headphones on. Presumably you don’t take your kids to clubs, and…”
well 1) that’s a weird stance to have and 2) i can’t wear headphones except on the train and the train is going away from my life like a lover who can’t stay not because she needs to leave but because i have to go.
but more seriously, i’m trying to avoid having a 3 year old who looks like the aryan nation’s poster child (blonde hair, blue eyes, unwavering belief in racial purity, difficulty understanding epigenetic phenomenon as it relates to iq, etc) engage in racial invective. it’s a miracle given where we live that he hasn’t picked it up yet, given how easily he took to certain swear terms and how common it is amongst the yutes here.
but we’re moving to the south*, and i would reeeaaaaaaaaaaaalllllly like to not get into that shit until we have to get into it. i know mike dwyer just crushed a scotch glass with his hand and all that but given what i know about our soon to be neighbors already i am not pleased on that front.**
* not the south, according to those from further south. the south, according to those in the south. the south, according to me, as that starts around new brunswick, nj.
** two of them told us 100% seriously that they would “keep an eye” on the muslim family that just moved next door for us.Report
dhex,
Radio edits scrub themselves of most offensive terms, including the N-word, sexist or homophobic slurs, and most drug references. If you can find those, while you won’t get the FULL effect of the song, they’ll give you a wider berth for listening.Report
dhex, I’m mostly being facetious about the club or headphones thing (when I’m home, I mostly just listen on the stereo these days), though I do think hip hop works best in one of those two contexts (a boom box next to your ear will also work). I understand your reluctance, though.
Also, where South? Maryland? Plus, you really should watch out for the Muslim family next door… they might invite you for tea!Report
ND, I am nearly a decade older than you. My generation was the one in which hip-hop was the “new” thing (well, it was just “rap music” then). My cousins, Southern white boys to the bone, took to rap with a vengeance (I may have mentioned that they formed their own rap crew).
Me, not so much. I liked the occasional track (and I liked Run-DMC quite a bit), but I’ll admit I was one of the many that figured rap mostly had to be just a passing fad (“Let me get this straight…you just take the beat from another song, then you basically talk over it? Sure, it seems fun, but how far can you really take that concept?”). I was still all about Van Halen’s 1984.
It wasn’t until I got to college and my dorm-mate/friend from Miami really exposed me to where it was then (post-PE) , that I started to somewhat get it. It was also helpful that the music was also going through a hugely creatively-fertile time, with all sorts of experimentation in what kinds of samples and themes and and beats you could use (jazzy stuff, hippie stuff, horror movie imagery – hey, anybody remember Gravediggaz? Also, it strikes me how often Prince Paul was involved in these different permutations).
If there’s one thing I would like people to take away from these articles, it’s the idea that if you think hip-hop is just one thing, it’s not. There are many, many facets and threads to it, and chances are there is at least one that might conceivably speak to your experiences.
Regarding the mimicking of the fashions and cultures, it’s not really any different from people who like rockabilly music dressing like ’50s greasers, is it?Report
If there’s one thing I would like people to take away from these articles, it’s the idea that if you think hip-hop is just one thing, it’s not.
+a gazillionReport
“hey, anybody remember Gravediggaz?”
that’s when the minister
creased my jaw with a cold glass of vinegar
(internet tells me it’s “quinched” but that’s not how we heard it. i like my version better)Report
Yea, this series should be read as how four people feel about hip hop, not any sort of definitive statement on either the musical genre or the broader culture from which it grew.Report
So I’m working my way through your playlist, sometimes just getting through part of a song because other things are getting in the way. And here is the thing… I’m listening to Chance’s “Juice” and thinking, “Wow, this guy is really good. He’s got a unique sound but isn’t so far out there that I have to figure him out. I actually could see him going mainstream and being successful. Like, having listened just once, I *really* like it.
But then I get to “All Falls Down” by Kanye and I’m just like, “This is just on another level.” Maybe it is, as I mention elsewhere, that I tend to go to beat/music before flow and rhyme that sets it apart, and the former is what Kanye excels at.
So, yea, I don’t know that I really have a point as much as I’m just sharing my experience. Or maybe I just like Kanye a bit too much.Report
That is a really good song. I remember hearing it and thinking, “He just said he’s insecure! Well, he said insecurr, but still… no one in rap says they’re insecure.” That song is like rap going to a therapist.
Also, Chance is 20 (he recorded “Juice” when he was 19). I think he’ll get there, though he’ll probably never have the mass appeal that Kanye does. And he’s already really fun.Report
One thing I know about myself and music is that I’m a sucker for big horns and big pipes. Kanye employs a lot of both, relatively speaking. Outkast and its members did as well. I am very fond of the lot of ’em.Report
I like the maximalism that’s big among the midwest types like Kanye and Lupe and especially Kid Cudi. It’s not just the horns and stuff, but the wall of sound generally. That’s why I dig that Kudi-MGMT-Ratatat song. I mean, I already dig Ratatat, with their organs and stuff, and when you add rapping over it, I think it’s pretty much perfect, even if it’s really, really pop. Cudi did a couple other songs with Ratatat (one’s just Cudi rapping over Ratatat’s “Loud Pipes”), but the other one is also pretty cool (I hope this works):
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It did not work. The song is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hP6gcH7b5AReport
The more an artist can do to make a song sound like a full marching band is involved, the better, as far as I’m concerned.
I think that is why I like Big Boi’s Speakerboxxx so much.Report
Can we talk about “Paris” for a minute? We can? Cool.
Okay. I like the song. It’s good… easy to listen to, easy to dance to. It gets a bit silly at the end with the mechanical monster/smoke monster sounds but, whatever, it’s catchy.
But how do you pick that song over “Otis”? How does ANYONE pick that song over “Otis”? How “Paris” got so much more airplay than “Otis” will remain one of the biggest mysteries of my life. Are we listening to the same songs??? “Otis” got more critical acclaim but “Paris” seemed to have more mainstream appeal… and I know I’m more of a “mainstream guy”, but even I could see that “Otis” was vastly superior to “Paris”. Or am I taking crazy pills? What made you choose “Paris” for your list? Why didn’t you choose “Otis”? Why doesn’t everyone choose “Otis” for whatever list they are creating?
Or did I call dibs on “Otis” during one of our many email exchanges and forget? Man, I sure hope not.Report
Hell, I’d even take “Gotta Have It” over “Paris”. I mean, Kanye actually has good lyrics that make sense on Otis and GHI. Like, really good lyrics!Report
Paris (I find it kinda amusing that we’re calling it that, but I can’t think of any better way to refer to it) is one of the catchiest songs I’ve ever heard, except that unlike 99% of catchy songs, it’s not really that bad. “That shit cray” gets stuck in my head just thinking about it. I figure if you can listen to that song and still say, “OK, there is no hip hop anywhere that appeals to me at all. I mean, I can’t even smile at this,” then hip hop just ain’t for you. It’s not the best song on that album, but it’s soooooo easy and catchy.
It’s also how I feel about that Brother Ali song linked in the post. It is in no way the best Brother Ali song, but man, every time I hear it I smile. I mean, I just smile. It’s that kinda song. I kinda feel like Paris is too, though it helps that every time I hear it I think of the video of that dude on the subway singing along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEwmywm6S7k
“You might think I’m depressed as can be, but when I look in the mirror I see sexy ass me!”
“Imma be alright, you ain’t gotta be my friend tonight. I’mma be OK, you would probably bore me anyway.”Report
I’m pretty sure “Paris” was how they referred to it on the radio. Perhaps my perception was colored by a local radio promotion involving the song, wherein they’d replace the second half of the line “What’d she order?/Fish filet” with something else that rhymed, e.g., “Tea Earl Grey”. People then had to call in with the adjusted lyric to win. Intentional or not, it pointed out just how silly the lyrics were.
And, yea, the ending still makes me think of “The Iron Giant.”
When I first heard “Otis”, I hummed it all day. Also, the video is awesome. I’ll discuss that in my post. Does me talking about music videos… Do people still watch those?Report
Ah, that may be. I don’t listen to the radio much, except Pandora, so I don’t hear how they refer to songs. What do they do with pretty much anything by A$AP Rocky? I mean, do they just bleep out all of the drug references, leaving the words “the”, “a”, and “Rocky”?Report
Yea, the radio edits really change things. Songs like “Paris” and those which basically have choruses full of inappropriate words take on an entirely different form. It’s almost like a completely different song after a while.Report