AMA
When we were living out west, the hospital where my wife worked instituted a smoke free campus. Nowhere on the entire area could a nurse, patient, or anybody catch a cigarette. One of the things my wife commented on was that there was a huge spike in patients leaving “AMA” (Against Medical Advice). Whereas before they would smoke and come back in, once you’re off the hospital grounds you’re off the hospital grounds and therefore have to be checked out.
Anti-anti-smoking zealot that I was then becoming, I couldn’t help but notice that this did not seem ideal for patient care. You were basically demanding smokers check themselves out unnecessarily. “Or they could just not smoke instead,” my wife and the reasoning went. Well, yes, but when you make these decisions you have to consider what people will actually do and how they will respond rather than what they would ideally be doing. As much of the time as not, if they had been doing what they were ideally supposed to be doing, they’d not be needing to be in the hospital to begin with. The smokers, at any rate.
At the time, it was mostly an ideological and theoretical point. Sort of like how the elimination of smoking sections clutter up security lines at airports because smokers have to leave and re-enter during layovers.
Recently, however, it stopped being theoretical.
My wife has been preparing for a deposition. Last year she got notice of a claim against her, her hospital, and various people who worked there. The primary target of the claim appeared to be a couple of the specialists, but standard operating procedure is to file against pretty much anyone who was ever in the room with the patient. Which included my wife, who saw this patient during hospital rounds.
It was a very, very long month as we waited to get served for the lawsuit. But the statute of limitations came and went, and we received no notice. It seemed like we were in the clear. Which we sort of were and sort of weren’t. What ultimately happened is that the lawyers for her and the hospital negotiated that they would drop the lawsuit against the hospital employees (including my wife and two other hospitalists) and sue the hospital instead. This would make later settlement easier, since physicians are much more hostile to settling than hospitals. In fact, the lawyers basically said that though the suit (as it pertained to the hospital and its employees) did not have much merit, they would probably throw some money at them to make them go away (or focus on the other defendants).
I’m not going to go into all of the gritty details of the suit, but my wife’s involvement with the patient and in the lawsuit pertains to the smoking ban (which have become ubiquitous at hospitals). As it happens, one of the inpatients at the hospital wanted to smoke a cigarette. She wasn’t allowed to and she left. Bad things happened from there. She came back again weeks later in worse shape, then left again. The next time she came back she was in really bad shape, she was referred to specialists, and there was a bad outcome.
The hospital’s lawyers aren’t clear on what exactly the claim against the my wife and the other hospitalists are, but reading between the lines it appears to involve the AMA departures that were, at least according to EMR and my wife’s best recollection, to smoke.
I am not exactly this lady’s biggest fan. She was abusive to my wife when she was at the hospital, and is accusing her of giving bad care when I (biased as I am) am confident that she did not. But to whatever extent this was all the result of her having to make a decision between her smoking habit and continued hospital care… on that I can sympathize.
Perhaps all of this could have been avoided if hospitals had listened to me in 2012.
The local hospital here and my university campus are both ‘smoke free’ on their campuses. No skin off my nose, I don’t smoke*
But I have noticed that there are an awful lot of people standing smoking *right across the street* from the hospital – on a roadside, but right outside where hospital property ends. And on campus, the students smoke in their cars (still counted as their own property, I assume) or, since my building is right at the northeast edge of campus – they cross the (busy, and hard to see oncoming traffic) street to stand on the corner across from my building and smoke.
I admit I wonder what would happen if someone got hit by a car, if their family would try suing the university. I don’t know.
(*When they start wanting to rummage in the lunches we bring from home in the name of wellness, then I’ll get incensed)
I will say when my dad was briefly on oxygen at home – after a hospital stay – the visiting nurse came in prepared to read the riot act about smoking until my dad informed her that no one in the household smoked, though apparently she had heard of some very bad outcomes of someone smoking while on oxygen. So I presume the craving for nicotine is so strong in some they’re willing to take that risk. Not sure how hospitals could solve that; I guess patches don’t work?Report
This problem happens so often that if they don’t have an actual term for it, they should; people enact policy that is counter to human nature.
In this case, the idea that if you make a bad thing difficult enough people will rationally abandon the bad thing. Criminalization of vice is a great example of this. We as a society have been trying the same thing for decades (sometimes centuries) with the same results.
Being a never-smoker in an extended family that is almost all smokers, I have seen first hand the lengths that people will go to smoke. My father had 19 brothers and sisters. Most of them, including my father, died of some cancer or other. The eldest, who never smoked, is still kicking around. You cannot apply the rational actor model to addiction and probably not to vice either.Report
I’ve now done plaintiff side and defense side tort law cases. The big problem I think is that unfortunately for a good percentage of Americans (I can’t predict how many), tort law is the closest thing that they have to a social safety net because of our largely lacking welfare state.
Plenty of countries have tort law and plaintiff’s lawyers who do medmal or other injury cases. I’ve seen plaintiff’s lawyers bring cases that I would not bring. Plenty of those lawyers make nice livings doing those cases in other countries. Australia and Canada have lucrative tort law bars IIRC. In a lot of countries in Europe though, tort law is very limited because the welfare state and social safety net programs take care of people in ways that mitigate or vastly lessen what tort law does in the United States.
But since the United States needs to constantly be the country of “and this is why we can’t have nice things,” our system seems to be a constant fight for people who want to get rid of tort law as much as they can but also have no welfare state or social programs that mitigate the need for tort law. When I was in law school, I was friends with a German LLM student, she told me about a huge train derailment where the train operators were at fault. The injured people got a decent but not huge amount in compensatory damages because they had other avenues for getting medical treatment, etc.
For some reason, the answer in the United States is always: no tort law and no welfare state because freedom by its most idiocratic and plutocratic definition.Report
Personally, I want my medical professionals to be on heavy nootropics.Report
Wouldn’t a better solution be to let them leave the grounds for a smoke? Discharging them for a short term crossing of the property line seems as capricious to me as the smoking ban must seem to you.Report
Maybe? It’s a longstanding policy to prevent people from repeatedly coming and going. A clear line between whether you are in or are not in their care. Before this, it was an issue with people wanting to leave to eat out. Or people just wanting to treat the hospital like a hotel to check in and out.Report
Further refining my suggestion is to put them on the clock. You can check out for a 30 minute smoke break. I know this creates a logistical headache for the hospital, but I would think it’s better than a discharge AMA.
Maybe give them nicotine patches? I really can’t find fault for a hospital banning smoking.Report
Discouraging smoking is one of the stated aims of these policies. I doubt they are interested in overhauling their admission/readmission policies to accommodate smokers.Report
Heh. Maybe the patients need to unionize. The things that are subject to collective bargaining…Report