How Radical is Occupy Wall Street?
There’s been a mild lull in Occupy Wall Street activity as of late — chalk it up to the turkey and the cold, I suppose — and the respite from breaking news has allowed me the chance to take a step back and reflect a bit more on where the movement stands today and, forgive the phrase, what it all means. Specifically, I’m interested in examining the influence of radical politics on Occupy, determining whether or not Occupy is indeed a radical movement; and, perhaps most vexingly, whether or not it should be.
As to whether or not Occupy is radical, I’d say that it’s not only too soon to tell but probably not worth the time. For an organization of its size and breadth to be described as one thing or another — radical, reformist, incrementalist, whatever — it would probably require a more centralized, codified, and organized leadership apparatus than Occupy currently has. (It’s probably a stretch to call it an “organization” at all.) How can we say anything definitive about Occupy when Occupy encompasses not only groups of people in New York City, but also Philadelphia, Oakland, Los Angeles, and countless other venues throughout the United States and the world?
Besides a few online hubs of streaming video, and Twitter hashtags, there is no home-base of any kind for Occupiers. Essentially, they are no more easily reduced into one political category than are the American people as a whole. You could gain some insight from analyzing the participants along demographic lines — Occupiers tend to be white, educated, and left-wing — but as of this writings, Occupy’s politics are vague and amorphous enough to preclude any useful or edifying categorization into well-worn and comfortable political form.
Eventually, however, the Occupiers are going to congeal into something more easily distinguished, labeled, embraced, and refused. The idealism won’t dissipate and die-out, but the vigor and shock of the new is inherently ephemeral; and as Occupiers become increasingly a part of the political topography, they’ll either splinter, assume a form more readily transferable into traditional politics (not necessarily entirely or even primarily, mind you) or, likely, both. And a fascinating and excellent recent cover story from New York‘s John Heilemann — who is a much better journalist than his work with Mark Halperin would indicate — offers a glimpse into how that process is occurring already, and a hint as to how it might proceed in the future.
The narrative crux of Heilemann’s piece is to set up Occupy Wall Street’s New York City apparatus as one increasingly run by two clearly differentiated, but currently cooperative, ideological camps: reformist social democrats on the one hand, radical pseudo-anarchist utopians on the other.
The former is composed of people who more or less should find a home on the left-most edges of the Democratic Party. They’re more liberal than is the norm, sure, and unapologetically so; but they’re not fundamentally negatively disposed to the entire American liberal democratic edifice — they just think it could be operated with far more decency and righteousness. They tend to be more experienced in politics, having worked previously as activists and organizers; and their goals are often more specific and concrete: a financial transaction tax here, a national, government-funded jobs program there, etc.
The second group is composed of more political neophytes; but, from Heilemann’s telling, these are the people with the technological savvy that has distinguished the Occupy movement and has allowed it to catapult to national prominence and influence with a breathtaking speed. As is often customary with the kind of people fully plugged-in to modern technology’s vanguard, however, they are also the ones more likely to speak of the Occupy project in the kind of airy, romantic language that is both profoundly inspiring and operationally problematic. After quoting some of the more extravagantly utopian talk coming from the movement’s radical wing, as it were, Heilemann writes:
This kind of talk is common among a certain sort of OWSer, especially those who are newbies to public agitation. But then there is another sort: committed activists. Among the OWS prime movers, a goodly number, including Yotam Marom, were involved in Bloombergville, the sidewalk protest near City Hall against the city’s budget cuts that took place last summer. While their vernacular is at times as airy as Husain’s, their politics are much firmer, steeped in the cut-and-thrust of battles for tangible objectives. And, unlike Husain, who invoked the phrase “leaderless movement” again and again, the activist prime movers make no bones about the fact that OWS has a leadership cadre—and that they are part of it.
“Anybody who says there’s such a thing as a totally nonhierarchical, agenda-less movement is … not stupid, but dangerous, because somebody’s got to write the agenda—it doesn’t fall out of the sky,” says Marom, who in some ways is Husain’s mirror image. A 25-year-old veteran of the New School occupation and co-founder of the quasi-socialist Organization for a Free Society, Marom was raised in Hoboken by Israeli parents and has lived in both a commune (in Israel) and a collective (in Crown Heights). Articulate and charismatic, he came to OWS with a bone-deep wariness toward many of the far left’s ingrained tendencies, notably “the glorification of process and vagueness,” he says.
At the outset, Marom represented one pole in a pivotal debate that illustrated immediately how easily OWS might be riven by factionalism: Should the occupation have demands? The media was asking incessantly what the protesters wanted. And so were important players in the institutional left. “Early on, the unions came down and were trying to figure out how to plug in,” recalls Teichberg. “They said, ‘We can’t get behind you until you have a concrete set of demands.’?”
Marom and others agreed that demands were necessary. “Working families from the South Bronx aren’t gonna come to a general assembly for four hours to express their own demands,” says Marom. “Demands are one way for them to hear that it’s about them without them having to be there. Demands also give us clear markers and clear targets. If our demand is about housing, we know Chase is fucking over the housing market. Etcetera.”
But the resistance to demands within OWS proved stronger than the pressure for them, and the former stance prevailed. For one thing, explains Michael Premo, a 29-year-old Brooklynite activist who has worked on issues from HIV/AIDS to housing since his teens, “even people who are for demands can’t figure out what the demands should be.” For another, although there were and are plenty of proposals that most OWSers could get behind—from a moratorium on foreclosures to a hefty Wall Street transaction tax to debt forgiveness for student loans—articulating demands for any of them would exclude others. And at a time when the movement’s main goal is growth, that seems self-defeating. “When we can put a million people on the Mall,” says Berger, “then we can have demands.”
In retrospect, I think those who argued against demands look the wiser. But that’s not to say that such a style-over-substance modus operandi is going to be useful in the long-term. In one of the article’s best vignettes, Heilemann describes what occurred when Rev. Jesse Jackson met with some of the Occupy organizers. I think his advice is worth heeding:
Jackson looked at Berger and asked, “What does Lyndon Johnson mean to you?” Berger shrugged. “The Vietnam War?”
Jackson folded his hands across his belly and declaimed, “Civil Rights Act of 1964—LBJ. The Voting Rights Act of 1965—LBJ. Medicare—LBJ. Medicaid—LBJ. Child Nutrition Act—LBJ. Jobs Corps—LBJ.”A few of the OWSers greeted Jackson’s words with skepticism, but most found them powerful, inspirational. “The connection with historical movements is what gives this so much moral credibility,” says Berger. “For someone like him to tell us ‘You have a history, tap into that history’—literally, I have goose bumps.”
The question is whether OWS will heed the message of Jackson’s riff on LBJ: that the protesters need to ally themselves with semi-simpatico elected officials, and that merely howling about the depradations of the existing economic and political order won’t be sufficient to change either. “At some point, movements must take on some form, some identifiable agenda,” Jackson tells me later. “At some point, water must become ice.”
The problem, of course, is that for a significant part of the Occupy leadership, using the LBJ model Jackson delineated would be tantamount to failure. Here’s how one of the most influential members of the leadership describes his mission — you tell me if this sounds like someone who’d be content to point to a piece of paper with President Obama’s signature at the bottom as the result of all his work:
“But this really isn’t about having a few demands for reform of the Fed or the transaction tax,” [Teichberg] goes on. “We’re talking about changing our society, so we no longer measure each other in terms of money, but based on fundamental things. What makes us special is not what we are against but what we are for: equality, unity, mutual respect. Those are very important elements of this new human system we want to build.”
Yeah, the Civil Rights Acts were nice — but could you describe any one of them as creating a “new human system”? I think not!
It’s easy to make fun of this kind of talk, of course, but it would be a mistake to figure that the Occupy movement could survive without its more ideologically ambitious, shall we say, participants. And, to their credit, it sounds like those who hold a position of influence within Occupy, but are not themselves quite so radical, understand this. Indeed, in an article that’s on the whole very sympathetic and displays these activists in an overwhelmingly positive light, I’d say that this was the quote that impressed me the most, showing as it did that — despite what their most strident critics would have you believe — many of the most important Occupiers are well aware of the delicate balance between poetry and prose that their movement will require if it is to succeed:
OWS will need to navigate the fork in the road between radicalism and reformism. “I don’t think it’s an either-or,” says Marom. “People who only want reforms are probably just handicapped by cynicism. And if you don’t want reforms as a revolutionary, then you’re not a revolutionary, because people need the foundations on top of which to survive. And people need to win things, to feel like it’s possible to win.”
Specifically, I’m interested in examining the influence of radical politics on Occupy, determining whether or not Occupy is indeed a radical movement; and, perhaps most vexingly, whether or not it should be.
There was a story in the New York Post that has an interesting take on this.Report
“When we can put a million people on the Mall says Berger, ” then we can have demands.” I think when they have the correct demands, then there will be a million people on the Mall. And I say that as a person who firmly believes that America needs a new set of guiding principles.Report
Since when do jokesters and pranksters make Demands? Expect enough mischief, enough troublemaking — and enough taking of things by force. Study not LBJ, but the unions, for inspiration. and come prepared to fight.Report
How can we say anything definitive about Occupy when Occupy encompasses not only groups of people in New York City, but also Philadelphia, Oakland, Los Angeles, and countless other venues throughout the United States and the world?
So do the communists, and we can say some definitive things about them. As well as the Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Presbyterians, etc., etc. Geographic diversity is not particularly relevant here, I think. Diversity, yes, but on some basis other than geography.
Essentially, they are no more easily reduced into one political category than are the American people as a whole
I don’t think this can be true. They are a non-random subset of the American people; therefore they must be more easily categorically reducible. Easy? No, but definitely more categorically reducible than the whole populace.
The problem, of course, is that for a significant part of the Occupy leadership, using the LBJ model Jackson delineated would be tantamount to failure.
Therein lies the rub. Follow the LBJ model and the movement has failed itself. Refuse to follow the LBJ model and the movement simply fails.
“this new human system we want to build.”
There’s the problem–they want to build a system. They lack all understanding of tradition, of the evolution of society, of the value of marginal change. Like the French revolutionaries, or the Khmer Rouge, they want to build, and in doing so they can only end up destroying.Report
Like the French revolutionaries, or the Khmer Rouge, they want to build, and in doing so they can only end up destroying.
Errm, I dont like Occupy wallstreet myself but I still wouldnt compare them to either the french revolution or the Khmer Rouge.
And while we are thinking about violence and radical change, America’s rebellion against their rightful sovereign also falls under the category of destroying more than it built.Report
Not all the OWS folks; just those who are eager to rebuild human society in their preferred image.Report
I’m w/Hanley: “This new human system we want to build” are like the scariest words I know, with a historical butcher’s bill unmatched by religions or empires.
Nobody’s accusing #OWS types of anything more than a mastery of passive-aggressiveness; still, they are the philosophical heirs of less passive types.
Further, a mob is a mob when a “system” cannot sustain, and goes kerblooey. This is why the ancients feared anarchy more than tyranny.
The Occupation itself proved that man’s natural state is shitholiness. It turned everywhere it went into a shithole.
This “new human system we want to build” is a chimera, for it requires a “new man” with a new human nature to populate it. Unfortunately, we’re still making men like we used to and always will.
Few men who find themselves in a mob are capable of behaving like anything more than men in a mob, and there are as few today as there ever were. It’s not that our minds or ideas aren’t strong enough, it’s that our feet will always be made of clay.Report
So in other words, you found a guy who said he wanted some sort of transformation of society.
Based on that slender thread of words, you went on a parnoid rant about how the Occupy people may LOOK like they are merely sitting there passively, but whoo boy, watch out- the hand of genocide is everywhere, so be afraid, children.
C’mon. Am I the first Occupier you have ever actually engaged with directly? Sounds like it.
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Would it have been more meaningful if he found a car with a bumpersticker that talked about desire for some sort of transformation of society?Report
Lib60, if you’re going to respond to my comment, pls respond to my comment, which contemplates man’s nature and human history. In toto, to the best of my ability.
My semi-worthless LA Times gave a whole page on Sunday’s Op-Ed page for #OWSers to give their thoughts. That you would think that any of your interlocutors here at the LoOG would be aware only of the dumbest of dumbasses in the protests is to miss the point of our great diversity here.
If only because we’re blessed with the estimable Mr. Isquith and his links to its equally estimable apologists. Unless you’d like to posit that Brother Elias is some sort of dumbass.
[The history of the NY cab medallions is instructive, if not probative. Pls do keep up, Mr. Lib. Today’s solution often becomes tomorrow’s problem.]Report
For myself, let me re-state that I’m not talking about OWS; just about those individuals who say they want to rebuild society. I agree with Elias that there is diversity within OWS, and I actually suspect very few of them want to fundamentally rebuild society, but only to tweak it around the edges.Report
hrrm. is becoming Germany (or something similar, in broad sweeping terms) rebuilding society? I’d say yes, but it’s not radical reconstruction — it’s a conservative thingy.Report
TVD,
be thankful we’re stil making shmucks like you. If every guy was one of those “ambitious types” we’d ALL be dead (translate that to civilization would be impractical.)
New men appear all the time, that’s why men have such a spread in terms of intelligence (though women are on average smarter — the tails!)Report
Down with the Internet! Up with Big Brother!
((if you aren’t getting the reference, refer to what that mask above means.))Report
The violence of a revolution is directy proportional to how far down the masses have been driven before they rebel. Now OWS is asking politely for some changes. If the middle class descent goes on for a few more years there may be some people put against the wall. Also, Mr. Hanley, if you knew anything about DFHs, you would know that, for the most part, they are much more enamored with Dr. King than McVeigh.Report
The violence of a revolution is directy proportional to how far down the masses have been driven before they rebel.
I suspect it has more to do with who’s leading the revolution.Report
Mr. Hanley, if that is the case then you should name names. Tell me which one of the OWS leaders reminds you of Pol Pot or Robespierre.Report
dexter,
That reply missed my point entirely. If OWS has no Pol Pots, then driving the masses in the U.S. down further before a hypothetical OWS rebellion will not produce a Pol Pot level of violence.
And of course Pol Pot did not perpetrate most of his violence in the revolution, but after, and not against the colonizers, but against his own people. That’s why I say I think the level of violence has more to do with who’s leading the revolution than how oppressed the masses were.
The comment was not, in any way, an anti OWS comment, but just a critique of your claim.Report
Mr. Hanley, I am a little confused as to what claim of mine you were critiquing. You are the one that brought up past tyrants and I just asked who were the new demons. I do not want a revolution, I want an epiphany. The dire conditions of many people in this country is a travesty and something needs to be done about it. Personally, I find OWS much less frightening than the gun toting teabaggers from last summer. During a recent discussion somebody here talked about how some people were superfluous. That may be true if all one cares about is how much money your portfolio gained last quarter, but it is vitally important if it is your child that is hungry. The New York Post Jaybird mentioned was about a lady with a PHD who is now working for minimum wage. How wrong is that?Report
dexter, I was critiquing this claim:
The violence of a revolution is directy proportional to how far down the masses have been driven before they rebel.
It sounds reasonable, and I certainly don’t think I could make an argument that it’s entirely wrong. I just think the leaders of the revolution will do more to determine the level of violence than will the level of oppression that precedes it.
It wasn’t intended to be a critique of OWS or of your position vis a vis OWS’s issues, etc.
The New York Post Jaybird mentioned was about a lady with a PHD who is now working for minimum wage. How wrong is that?
I would have to know this particular person in more detail obviously, but having a Ph.D. myself and knowing lots of other people who have them, I’m not a priori sure it’s wrong at all.Report
I can only speak for myself and the Occupy group of which I am a part.
The people in my group (Occupy Irvine) are a mix of newly active college students, veteran progressive activists, and some newly active middle aged middle class middle management working professionals.
If I had to generalize, what motivates the majority of people is the sense of unfairness, that while the 99% are stagnating, the 1% are reaping abundance. Add to this that we are being told that we must accept “austerity” while the 1% continues- yet again- to reap generous abundance.
Actually, we do have some things in common with the Tea Party- witnessing the bank nailouts truly radicalized a lot of people- the people I speak with mention it constantly. Except unlike the Tea Party, we aren’t angry about taxation so much as what is being done with the taxes we do pay.
We are also having the internal discussion about reform versus radicalism- as a middle middle middle, I of course see reform as a best option.
What strikes me as truly absurd, however, is how modest of a reform it would be be to eliminate Occupy; if we adopted the tax and spending policy which was in place as recently as the 1960’s, (Progressive tax rates, social safety net, labor unions) people like me would nod and go back home.Report
Liberty60:
Except we aren’t in the 60’s which would seem to argue against a 60’s style taxing and spending policy.Report
We aren’t in the 1910’s but that doesn’t stop anyone from advocating for pre-New Deal policies.
I am not seriously advocating that the government CAN restore those policies- labor unions declined for many resons having nothing to do with the government.
But we can esily erase the deficit with sensible tax reform and ending the wars. Its just that the political will isn’t there.
Yet. But we hope to change that.
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Lib60: Private-sector labor unions declined for reasons having everything to do with government, which subsumed its invaluable functions:
—Minimum wage
—Worker safety [OSHA]
—Work or starve [food stamps, feeds yr kids at school]
—A roof over your head [Section 8 vouchers]
—A pension [Social Security, Medicare]
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Completely true, but there was more, wasn’t there?
For instance, labor unions were an essential part of the WWII generation, much like fraternal clubs and organizations.
They declined also, for similar reasons. The generation of people who saw value in collective action in the military of WWII also saw value in being part of a larger organization- the values that were famously lampooned by social critics in the 1950′ and 60’s.Report
Bowling Alone and What’s the Matter w/Kansas, I make it, Lib60. The subtitle of the latter is How Conservatives Won the Heart of America. Onward Kantian Soldiers! will never make the top 10 because as the exquisite GK Chesterton put it,
The truth is that Tolstoy, with his immense genius, with his colossal faith, with his vast fearlessness and vast knowledge of life, is deficient in one faculty and one faculty alone. He is not a mystic; and therefore he has a tendency to go mad.
Men talk of the extravagances and frenzies that have been produced by mysticism; they are a mere drop in the bucket. In the main, and from the beginning of time, mysticism has kept men sane. The thing that has driven them mad was logic. Report
The thing that has driven them mad was logic.
Is that because logic is inherently maddening, or is it because man is mentally too weak to deal with logic? Working from an evolutionary p.o.v., I opt for the latter explanation.
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is how modest of a reform it would be be to eliminate Occupy; if we adopted the tax and spending policy which was in place as recently as the 1960?s, (Progressive tax rates, social safety net, labor unions) people like me would nod and go back home.
Even more modest than that, perhaps? If we adopted the policies in place in the late 1990s (under Bill Clinton)? Or am I wrong about that, do you think?Report
I think the “Getting kicked out of Zuccotti and flashed bombed and pepper-sprayed will be good for the movement” meme is looking weaker by the day. Following my earlier essay, it seems clear to me that maintaining Occupation, physical presence, disruption, and the resulting visibility, however much it repulsed some observers, was critical to sustaining the movement, given its ontology. I don’t expect a spring renaissance. Being dispersed and spread to the wind by means of a prejudice of state force was the unironic setback, perhaps fatal, that we should have straightforwardly presumed it to be. That being said, the disruption was far more profound and last much longer than the early naysayers said it would and resulted in a shift in the national conversation of an extent no one imagined it would. All in all, a remarkable accomplishment.Report
Or not, Mr. Drew. You don’t speak to the “substance'” of #OWS, only to its annoyance value—which I confess was substantial, if only for having to see it on the news and read about it here.
Being dispersed and spread to the wind by means of a prejudice of state force was the unironic setback
You don’t want to seriously argue this, do you, Mike? They got more slack than any public nuisance has any right to expect.Report
You are right – all along I have been speaking strategically from their persepctive, not evaluating their views.
They were given time, I don’t deny this. I was just attempting to describe what happened when the inevitable (barring their being insufficiently committed to force the confrontation) came.Report
Man, talk about the winter of your discontent!
I hold OWS in hardly any esteem at all, but the current lull is do to the weather and finals. They’ll be back. And heck, in the 40% chance Not Obama wins the White house, they’ll be able to build momentum all next year and really be able to rally *next* winter with NewtMittHitler as a focal point.
I mean, what are they going to do, get jobs or something?Report
Yup. There is a recovery coming.Report
The forces that made Occupy such a success haven’t lessened or gone away- the middle class is still feeling insecure, they still see the welathy brazenly manipulating the levers of government, and still hear talk about taking away the fundamental social safety net.
Political movements are measured in years, not weeks or months. The Occupiers are still here, still connected, still working. The civil rights movement didn’t vanish once the lunchcounter sit-ins ended.
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They can still be there for as long as they want. It may not seem to you to be the case, but in reality the question we are discussing is how much attention they are being paid in the media at any given time.Report