A Plea for Alcibiades, or, How to Philosophize with a Bottle
My contribution to our symposium on the Symposium, which unfortunately doesn’t answer Rufus’s questions. Or for that matter any questions at all.
“What shall we say,” asked the Epicurean, “about the Symposium?”
“In the 21st century, we are like the last of the dialogue’s speakers. There’s little left to say,” said the Stoic.
“That rhetorical trope was ancient when Socrates used it,” said the Cynic. “It’s amazing how people grow more verbose, not less, as history moves on. Decent folk would shut up already.”
“Here’s something original, or at least relatively so” said the Academic. “Unlike what many people assume — our patron included — the Symposium is straightforwardly anti-homosexual.”
“Impossible. The homosexual did not exist until the nineteenth century,” said the Postmodernist. “Everyone knows that.”
“If ‘the’ homosexual did not exist until the nineteenth century, then certain passages from the Symposium are surpassingly hard to explain,” said the Academic. “Consider Aristophanes’ myth about the origin of love:
And so, gentlemen, we are like pieces of the coins that children break in half for keepsakes… and each of us is forever seeking the half that will tally with himself. The man who is a slice of the hermaphrodite sex… will naturally be attracted to women …. and women who run after men are of similar descent. But the woman who is a slice of the original female is attracted by women rather than by men… while men who are slices of the male are followers of the male, and show their masculinity throughout their boyhood by the way they make friends with men, and the delight they take in lying beside them and being taken in their arms. (Symposium 192d-e)
“What do we call a person with a fixed disposition toward loving members of the same sex? A homosexual, of course. Aristophanes even gave these people a mythic, and possibly a sincere, medicalized etiology: an origin story, written on the body, clear as the navel on your belly. It drew its force from cultural and moral norms as much as from any ‘pure’ science. As such, this is biopower to the letter. It couldn’t fit the bill more perfectly if Foucault himself had been present at the origin, dissecting hermaphrodites and twisting their genitals around.”
“Work he would presumably have enjoyed,” said the Cynic.
“But this stuff isn’t anti-homosexual,” said the Stoic. “Pausanias found homosexuals brave, civic-minded, sound in judgment, and excellent choices to teach young men. Even the pederasty wasn’t as bad as I remembered it, for Pausanius said that men must take youths as lovers only after their beards came in (181c-d). This sounds nearly right, even by recent, very severe age-of-consent standards. Aristophanes, when he finally got over his hiccups, seemed only to agree with all this.”
“Aristophanes,” said the Academic, “was also roaring drunk — for the second time in as many nights. He broke the rules of the party, and his mind was clearly addled. His tale of the origin of love can’t possibly be taken seriously, although some, embarrassingly, have done so.”
“Aristophanes didn’t say he was drunk,” said the Stoic. “He had eaten too much. That’s why he had the hiccups.”
“In every age,” said the Cynic, “and in every language, drunks always say very the same thing: ‘Ahm not drunk! Ahm not drunk!’ In fact, that’s just how I learned to say it in French. Late one night in Paris, after I’d done some especially heavy… philosophizing… I was coming home on the Métro when I heard the call of a fellow philosopher: Chuis pas bourré! Chuis pas bourré!”
“The Cynic, I fear, is right,” said the Academic. “Aristophanes was drunk. And we must also consider the wider picture, which casts even more doubt on the whole idea of Men without Women. The first part of the Symposium is homosexual, homosocial — and grossly gynophobic.
“Recall that before the real discussion even began, they sent the flute girl away. It’s a telling move. She wouldn’t have been a speaker in any case, but she was the only significant female figure in the early part of the story — if ‘significant’ is quite the right word. Flute girls were an ordinary part of the entertainment at symposia, and the simple act of sending her off, possibly to the confined and usually dark and dingy women’s quarters, I think was meant as a clue to where the sense of the dialogue can be found.
“Also remember the discussion of Aphrodite Pandemos, the love goddess of all the people. Even bringing her up was something of an insult. Common knowledge, unstated in the Symposium, held that her temple was built entirely with the proceeds from the cheap, state-run brothels. For the first part of the dialogue, at least, homosexuality was the preferred modality. Heterosexuality was vulgar.
“However, as I said, the Symposium was a failed attempt to construct a male-only model of love. No one got it quite right, and indeed, the speeches seem to have gotten worse, not better, as the evening wore on.”
“Is there no hope for ever understanding love?” asked the Epicurean.
“All the speakers’ attempts failed outright,” said the Academic, “until Socrates introduced Diotima. Now she, not Socrates, was the real Socrates of the dialogue. By contrast, ‘Socrates’ was just an Agathon: superficially beautiful, but amounting to nothing. That’s what all men are, without women. Socrates brought female wisdom, which he clearly loved, into a male homosocial space. That female wisdom put everyone to shame.”
“Socrates was the only straight guy at a gay bar,” said the Stoic.
“Socrates would have been the only straight guy at a gay bar even if he also happened to be Liberace. He was contrary by nature,” said the Postmodernist.
“What, though, does Diotima advise?” asked the Academic. “It’s not contrariness for its own sake. Why, she says that love points at immortality, and that, as far as carnal love is concerned, only the heterosexual type achieves the goal:
This is how every mortal creature perpetuates itself. It cannot, like the divine, be still the same throughout eternity; it can only leave behind new life to fill the vacancy that is left in its species by obsolescence. This, my dear Socrates, is how the body and all else that is temporal partakes of the eternal; there is no other way. (208a-b)
“Diotima represents the overthrow of the homosocial discourse, which had been hegemonic,” the Academic continued. “You’re all going to die, Diotima said, unless you come to Woman, and thus homosexuality stands lower, not higher, on the great chain of being. Only Woman offers immortality.”
“Homosexuality isn’t a lifestyle,” said the Cynic. “It’s a deathstyle.”
“We moderns can be so crude,” said the Epicurean. “If you must say something barbaric, at least say it with panache, like Diotima did.”
“But did she really condemn love between two men?” asked the Skeptic. “She did seem to believe that it was at least a link in the great chain of being.”
“Undoubtedly so,” said the Stoic. “It’s a link — as long as their love remains sexless. The real proof of what I’m saying is in Alcibiades’ speech. Frankly, his speech would be a total mystery if it did not amount to an authorial denunciation of homosexual sex.”
“Fine, Socrates refused to sleep with him,” said the Skeptic. “But that’s not a condemnation of gay sex per se. All it shows is that Socrates had ascended so far up the Platonic ladder that he no longer had any need for sex. It’s an encomium of Socrates, not a condemnation of anything.”
“Oh please,” said the Postmodernist, “When you praise anything, there’s always a hidden condemnation. Especially in sex. As a great hero of mine once said, ‘The dogma of the Immaculate Conception only maculated conception.'”
“It’s true that Alcibiades’ speech is an encomium of Socrates,” said the Academic. “The others asked for it, and he delivered. But look at the terms of that encomium, and look at who gave it, and you will see that no one at the symposium understood Platonic philosophy as well as Alcibiades, with the possible exception of Socrates himself. Not only did Alcibiades praise Socrates, but he praised Socrates in terms that were worthy of the the man and his ideas.”
“We should not doubt that he speaks the true philosophy, then,” said the Stoic. “Difficult as it may be to hear.”
“Alcibiades,” said the Academic, “is usually made out to be an unworthy lover, but this is deeply unjust. Though drunk, he spoke the truth. He even admitted his own drunkenness, which Aristophanes could not do. And then he did something still more remarkable: he gave a clear exposition of the Ideal, and how it relates to his love for Socrates. This love for Socrates was certainly not based on physical beauty. It sprang from an inner beauty, precisely as Platonic philosophy demands. Socrates was therefore wrong to deny Alcibiades’ love, and even more wrong to favor the insipid Agathon. Seriously, can you recall a single interesting idea from his entire speech?”
“Precisely what I mean,” said the Stoic. “The only explanation I can see is that the physical act itself stands condemned, so much so that it outweighs all else, including philosophy itself. Agathon, then, gets Socrates’ love, but not his physical love. Alcibiades gets nothing — merely because he wanted the physical act. Otherwise, Socrates’ rejection is totally inexplicable, because Alcibiades was perhaps his only true equal at the symposium.”
“I think,” said the Capitalist, “that Socrates was a very bad economist.”
“Why bring up economics at a time like this?” asked the Academic.
“It is what I do, after all,” said the Capitalist. “But if Socrates was so wise, why did he not grasp the principle of diminishing marginal utility?”
“Or for that matter differential calculus?” asked the Cynic.
“Oh my,” said the Academic. “Now I fear you’re all in your cups as well.”
“Quite so,” said the Capitalist, “but hear me out. Socrates seemed to think that even the first marginal unit of a lesser-valued good becomes positively evil whenever it is in the presence of a greater-valued good. In real life, though, this is typically not the case. You may prefer one good over the other, but if you’re offered both, you’ll still usually take both. It must be proven that the one good is somehow destructive of the other before you’ll refuse them together — like the gift of a pet bird and a pet cat at the same time.
“Can love possibly be so contradictory? This seems to be what the Platonic philosophy entails. In the paradox of value, the Platonic lover is the one who, on discovering diamonds, declares that he will do entirely without water. In doing so, he robs life of much of its variety and interest, and misses the point of the paradox entirely. He also ignores Diotima’s own maxim that a lower type of love conduces to and encourages the higher ones. Why not want at least a little of something that encourages the greater good?
“Yes, yes, there are diminishing marginal returns to all goods, even love, but that doesn’t mean we must make room in our hearts only for one type. In fact, it means just the opposite — to maximize utility, or to most nearly approach the Good (as Plato would term it), we must diversify, not unify, our loves. To be a well-rounded person, you should love many things.
“Love the Good and the Just. Love ideas, and mathematics, and Forms if you will. Love earthly justice. Love music, architecture, and literature. Love science. Love beautiful souls. Love beautiful bodies, regardless of the part you play in Aristophanes’ fable. Balance them all, so that you always love, but never love immoderately. Isn’t that obviously the more flourishing life?
“In the real world, it’s simply not as if, for one love to gain, all other types must lose. That’s just the sort of zero-sum thinking that I’d like to see buried forever, if I could, and in all areas of human action.”
“Ah, but some things,” said the Cynic, “are immortal.”
Nice to see the philosophers again, Jason. They’re always the highlight of your writing.Report
Dude! They weren’t drunk! There was an entire discussion at the beginning where they all said “dude, I am sooooo hung over from yesterday, let’s not get ripped”.Report
Which, of course, spectacularly misses the point of this delightful essay.
Sorry.Report
That’s what all drunks say, in all times and in all places, when they use the imperative. Am I reading at a slant? You bet I am. I think most of what I said could stand without this point anyway.Report
Well, I think it addresses many of my questions anyway, while posing other interesting ones. I’m not really sure you’re supposed to come out of the Socratic dialogue with answers anyway.Report
The Stoic, the Stoic
Soused since the Mesozoic
Thinks nothing of drinking all day
The old Epicurean
Needs to get some liqueur in him
He’ll carouse the night away
Crap. What rhymes with “Alcibaides”?Report
“False but prior deeds”?Report
“The youthful Alcibiades /
Was higher than the Pleiades…”Report
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[applause]Report
Hrm. If I’m not mistaken, I see the “polyamory” discussion hiding in your final paragraphs.
Am I mistaken? Is that a discussion worth exploring?Report
I think it is. Maybe it’s not always a good idea to explore the discussion with one’s spouse.Report
the “polyamory” discussion
What, sex with parrots? (“Who’s a pretty boy? Who’s a pretty boy?”)Report
In practice, it tends to be a discussion of whether a person can have multiple, erm, “partners” and flourish, and have them flourish.
The main debate generally veers off to whether a culture that engages in serial monogamy has a leg to stand on to criticize honest polyamory before breaking down in accusations of hidden agendas by either side of the debate.Report
In practice, it tends to be a discussion of whether a person can have multiple, erm, “partners” and flourish, and have them flourish.
But they all have to be named “Polly”? I suppose it could be short for “Pollux”, so you can do girls and boys that have a twin. Odd lot, those Greeks.Report
It’s a discussion suggested by what I wrote. I hope I did not appear to rule on it decisively, because if I did, it was without evidence or argument.Report
I didn’t get the idea that it was ruled on decisively, but I thought I saw it hiding there. I was wondering if that was deliberately alluded to or if I stumbled on a cobblestone that wasn’t actually there.
I’m not a fan of polyamory, myself. It seems to be more of an addiction to “New Relationship Energy” (a wholly self-interested thing) than an actual instance of the human heart actually having enough love for many folks in practice. Sure, there may be a handful of exceptions out there… but for me to get to the exceptions, I tend to have to overlook a large number of bitter breakups full of betrayals. (And, interestingly, the exceptions tend to be small polyfidelitous groupings.)
So that’s my take.Report
an actual instance of the human heart actually having enough love for many folks in practice.
Or able to believe that “my beloved’s other beloved” isn’t a deadly enemy.Report
“Diotima represents the overthrow of the homosocial discourse, which had been hegemonic,” the Academic continued. “You’re all going to die, Diotima said, unless you come to Woman, and thus homosexuality stands lower, not higher, on the great chain of being. Only Woman offers immortality.” Okay, is this academic Philip Rieff?
Seriously, though, I do see Socrates’s introduction of Diotima as a rejection of the homosocial/misogynist discourse up to that point. However, I’m not sure that Socrates isn’t quite a bit higher in the chain of being than Diotima or the breeding straights. I don’t think we’re supposed to end up at the immortality of reproductive sex with women- apologies to women. Well, maybe most of us will, but I think this stands quite a bit lower in the chain of being than philosophical apprehension of beauty.
I think his point with the story is that woman offers immortality of a sort, but philosophy offers genuine possession of the immortal and unchanging. It’s probably inappropriate, but I see Socrates as having achieved a sort of higher monkish immortality through philosophy than by having his sons. He certainly describes it as a superior occupation, right? So, I sort of see Diotima as a step closer to achieving the higher enlightenment of a Socrates. Also, while I admire him for holding a woman up as an example of higher wisdom, he did teach men, right? I think his students were supposed to apprehend Diotima and move beyond her ideal.
That said, Socrates is a cock-tease. One of the things I find interesting is that, while he rejects carnal love, to a certain extent he uses the lure of the erotic as a teaching aid. I think of Obama’s favorite term: “teachable moments”- Socrates won’t put out, but he’ll use your desire as a teachable moment! Again, I think it’s interesting that so many of his students are young men who’d like to sleep with him.Report
(Note: I do realize that much of this is already addressed quite well at the end of your post, but I think it’s worth discussing anyway.)Report
The hierarchy I infer looks like this:
Unanswered is the place of male-female non-carnal love. This is an interesting question, because it is the sort of relationship I infer (perhaps charitably) to have existed between Socrates and Diotima, and because its open declaration would have really subverted the dominant homosocial paradigm.Report
Your hierarchy looks about how I’d picture it. As for Socrates and Diotima, it’s certainly plausible, but kind of hard to say. Part of the difficulty, for me, in reading the dialogues is separating out what Socrates thinks and what Plato thinks. Karl Popper basically argues that Plato is the worst possible interpreter of Socrates’s ideas. At the least, I’d say they differ quite a bit.
Also, I guess I’d wonder about the value of drunkenness. Socrates often describes spiritual/daemonic inspiration in terms that sound like drunkenness to me- I wonder if the drunken Alcibiades isn’t closer to truth than the always-sober Socrates, or if Socrates isn’t closer to a sort of philosophical drunkenness.Report
Richard Rorty, in the context of a discussion of the difference between systematic philosophers and edifying philosophers:
“The permanent fascination of the man who dreamed up the whole idea of Western philosophy—Plato—is that we still do not know which sort of philosopher he was. Even if the Seventh Letter is set aside as spurious, the fact that after millenniums of commentary nobody knows which passages in the dialogues are jokes keeps the puzzle fresh.”
I sort of gave up on the search for the historical Socrates. I’m a little bit weird in that I think Socrates seems like a really annoying person not at all to be taken as a model (I sympathize with the Athenians at the trial), but I love Plato.Report
That’s so funny because I sort of take the opposite tack- anything that irritates me about Socrates, I just blame on Plato. I wonder if the Plato/Socrates divide is anything like the Beatles/Rolling Stones divide.Report
I would think of Plato/Aristotle as the Beatles/Stones of ancient philosophy.
Plato just does so much crazy narrative stuff — I mean, Diotima’s story, which is the highlight of the Symposium insofar as it’s presented as the true account, is four layers down! Stuff like this happens in other dialogues, too. The texts are astonishingly rich. And even Plato’s theory of forms ends up being a dead end, it lead to some of the most beautiful metaphysical theories we ever thought up. Although here’s a weird thing: we have references to dialogues by Aristotle, but they’ve all been lost. So the theory is that what we have is not Aristotle’s finished product, but rather his lecture notes. I wonder if Aristotle’s dialogues were as wonderfully strange as Plato’s.
Which ideas do you attribute to Socrates rather than Plato, and why?Report
Well, certainly the Forms and the divinely-inspired nature of poetry, philosophy and leadership. In the Symposium, I feel like what he’s getting at with Diotima’s story is way out beyond the criticism of homosexuality (or maybe really the celebration of reproduction) that’s embedded in there- when there’s something like that which strikes me as a bit off, I usually blame it on Plato! In general, I think of the more mystical sections of the dialogues as the voice of Socrates and the more authoritarian/pessimistic sections as coming from Plato, who after all, saw his teacher put to death. I will admit that this is really an unfair set of assumptions to make!Report
I have always had it in mind that a lot of scholars attribute to Socrates the belief that his conversational method could lead to higher truths. After all, Aristophanes aside, Socrates is remembered as an enemy of the sophists. But I always thought the more formal doctrine of the Forms belonged to Plato. For one thing, when Aristotle criticizes the theory of the Forms, I think he argues with Plato and doesn’t bring Socrates up. The “real Socrates” is supposed to be closer to the one in Euthyphro, Apology, and Crito… I have no idea whether I am right about this, and I probably should have done a little more prep work for this discussion.Report
Trust me, you’re more prepared than I am. I’ve read all the dialogues, but very, very little secondary literature, and not nearly enough Aristotle.Report