Mark of New Jersey
Mark is a Founding Editor of The League of Ordinary Gentlemen, the predecessor of Ordinary Times.
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on Open Mic for the week of 9/16/2024Here are Mark Robinson's little dolls of "N@@is" He is not a well man: https://www.ultimatesoldier.n…
on Open Mic for the week of 9/16/2024It just keeps getting better. I mean a transgender loving Anti-Semitic Black Na.zi seems so on brand…on Open Mic for the week of 9/16/2024At least it was an adult porn site.
on Open Mic for the week of 9/16/2024DavidTC: If Israel hadn’t been there, Hezbollah never would have existed in the first place for Iran…
on Open Mic for the week of 9/16/2024'Hezbollah no longer has any legitimate grievance with Israel.' Incorrect. Israel hasn't left the te…
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Comics
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Clare Briggs: Isn’t it the Truth?
September 19, 2024
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Clare Briggs: When A Feller Needs a Friend
September 18, 2024
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Clare Briggs: Movie of a Man with a Mosquito Bite on his Ankle
September 17, 2024
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September 16, 2024
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It looks like Gov. Palin scribbled a reminder on her hand much the same way people used to tie a string around their finger. I fail to see what the point of your complaint or his is. There is no content there for crib notes and his other explanation – that the audience questions were planted – is arbitrary.
When you run a municipal government, a state agency, and a state government for some years; keep a marriage together for 20-some odd years; and sire and raise five children, I will take you more seriously than I do now.Report
Art Deco, that’s not quite fair. You are probably a critic of Barack Obama and it is unlikely that you have served eight years in a state legislature while teaching at a top-ten law school, and thereafter been elected to national office and put together a winning Presidential campaign. Nevertheless it is appropriate for you to criticize the President, his policies, and his past. So too is it appropriate for Mark to direct askance Governor Palin’s way. After all, it is quite evident that she is the preferred Presidential nominee of a large number of people. As such, she is a public figure, sounding off on public policies, and a legitimate target of criticism even from those who have not duplicated her resume.
With that said, she gave a long speech and as anyone who has had to speak for more than ten minutes at a time can attest, it is easy to forget things in the moment. While the device of writing notes on one’s hand is juvenile and unreliable, it is really no worse than an index card or a teleprompter. So all the sturm und drang about the notes on her hand is just plain silly.Report
Mark Thompson’s statement was not a ‘criticism’ of something she has done or said. It was an invitation to confederates to exhibit their superiority. If others are small, you had better be big. If you are just Joe Blow with an opinion, you ain’t.
It is perfectly plain why Gov. Palin is taken seriously: she was a public executive for twelve years, she has not (as has Barney Frank or Timothy Geithner or Ray Nagin) been the author of any manifest disasters or frauds, and she has an unusual rapport with a section of the public. She is regarded as risible by people who appear to put a great store on being articulate over accomplishing much of anything, as evinced by the admiration they have for the current President.
I criticize the President’s policies. I am also not inclined to take him particularly seriously, not because he scribbles brief notes to himself before giving a speech (though I found the TelePrompTer in the 6th grade classroom amusing) but because…
1. The priorities set by the administration are consistent with the thesis that he knows and cares little about the country’s acute economic problems and wants to build policy monuments to himself (though delegating the leg work to Congress); and
2. There is a consistent pattern of behavior running through his endeavours over more than 25 years which suggests he prefers marks of status and titles to actual accomplishment. Your reference to his years as an instructor at the University of Chicago are relevant here. He placed no articles in scholarly journals and specialized in constitutional law. I would refer you to William Dyer (“Beldar”) on why this last is a red flag: you can fake it, which you cannot do with teaching tax law (which, of course, does not mean he did).
3. Were the President selling insurance in Honolulu or had he fulfilled some of the appropriate pre-requisites for attaining his current position, I would have a greater quantum of respect for him; as is, he is a consumer product. Gov. Palin has fulfilled some of the pre-requisites. She is not occupying some exalted public position at this time; she is making her opinions known and appearing in front of her public. Personally, I think she should be reading the news on the radio in Anchorage and helping with her husband’s fishing business; however, the disjunction between personal history and her current activities is far less jarring than is the case with B.O.
4. I actually do not expect people to take me all that seriously. They generally do not.
Now, these are guesses about a man I do not know.Report
“Nevertheless it is appropriate for you to criticize the President, his policies, and his past.”
Of course it is, he’s the President. Sarah Palin isn’t though I think we’d better in much better shape today if she was, even if we’d have to endure some comical crap.
But this business about “people to be taken seriously” is really weak, considering how wide that circle is in practice. Ed Schulze, Sean Hannity, Tom Tancredo and Chris Dodd are all taken seriously by various people. The idea that we have to cast Sarah Palin beyond the pale is nothing more than mindless antipathy as far as I can tell.
That is, assuming that Mark is talking about people in general who follow political-cultural affairs. If Mark means that he and others who agree with him don’t take Sarah Palin seriously, that’s much more defensible. Though frankly, in that case it’s not like her speech to the Tea Party convention was going to make any difference.Report
TL:
Were it just a matter of her having notes on her hand for the speech, I probably wouldn’t have said anything. But they were apparently intended for her post-speech Q&A, which suggests that she had to pre-screen the questions ahead of time. Regardless, the point of my referencing this was just generally to suggest that this is not someone who is (a) a huge threat to become President; (b) a terribly effective leader; or (c) worthy of live, primetime coverage by all three major news networks when she delivers a speech.Report
“Apparently intended…” in your head.
If you want to assess whether or not she was an ‘effective leader’, you are going to have to ask what she should have achieved and what she did achieve in each of the positions she held.Report
She was observed clearly reading from her hand during the Q&A – watch the video here, at the 0:46 mark: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/06/palin-hand/. Dan Riehl, who I consider a reliable source on this sort of thing, indicates that she read her actual speech, which is not a problem, but also eliminates the possibility that she used the hand-notes for the actual speech.Report
Stop it.
Either she has prepared responses, or she does not. Either she has extemporaneous thoughts on the questions, or she does not. The notes in her hand do not have the content for her responses. If there were planted questions, the questions would be sufficient prompts; she would not need scribbles as a mnemonic device. The only discernable purpose of the notes is to remember to cover points in the course of her remarks, whether delivered from the podium or in response to questions on various topics.Report
Also – not quitting midway through her term as governor would have been one way of showing she is an effective leader.Report
Not to be a Palin apologist here but I don’t think that’s entirely fair, there’s a fair amount evidence that an increasing amount of FOIA requests in the wake of the election were expensive and encumbering her ability to govern.
Not being Sarah Palin, I can’t say whether they were enough to warrant leaving, that’s her choice, but it’s not like she just up and left without good reason, nor – given her reasons – is it clear she would’ve done her family or state much good by remaining in the post.
Generally, resigning a post when on becomes a liability to the organization can be a sign of an effective leader. I don’t know if that applies to Palin in this case but quitting isn’t categorically a dealbreaker for me.Report
She and her husband were facing $500,000 in legal bills from defending themselves against bogus ethics complaints, one of which was filed in the name of a character on East Enders. Efforts by supporters to set up a legal defense fund for her were met with…another ethics complaint. She was very explicit about this motivation for leaving office; the book and the speaking fees are meant to pay her lawyers.Report
I like how she crossed out ‘Budget’ and replaced it with ‘Tax Cuts.’ That’s a metaphor for something.Report
What can anyone say about a Republican who can’t even remember “tax cuts” as one of their three “policies”. Why does the word “stupid” come to mind so insistently, along with “unqualified”, “fraud”, “fake” and “dangerous”?Report
Um, because they were brief reminders of points to cover (among many things she has been thinking about) in a speech for which she had only modest preparation time.Report
And you think that remembering “tax cuts” would have placed too great a strain on her mind? You have even less faith in her mental capacities than I do! At this rate, I am surprised you haven’t advocated her writing her name on that infamous hand!Report
Does anyone know Dear Leader’s grades in college?
Can anyone direct to a serious paper; legal, historical, philosophical that he’s authored?
Thank you.Report
I am not aware that John McCain has written anything notable. But you might try asking Mark Salter.Report
John McCain has been quite public and explicit that his academic record at the Naval Academy was wretched and that he graduated in the bottom 2% of his class. Nothing of note has been concealed, as it has been with the other guy.
No, John McCain has no scholarly papers to his credit; he was also not on the faculty of the University of Chicago Law School. Barack Obama has never flown an aircraft.Report
Adjunct professors don’t usually do scholarly papers–they just teach.Report
That depends on where they are in their career and what their future aspirations are.
Also to consider: Obama was, after 1996, ‘of counsel’ at his law firm, his law license lapsed to a status of ‘inactive’ in 2002, and he wrote two books between 1991 and 2006. His publication record was not meagre; it was non-existent. We got two memoirs out of him (‘ere his 45th birthday), but not one article on labor or landlord-tenant law.Report
ArtDeco, precisely what has been concealed according to you? Are you just another of the Birther infestation?Report
Hate Obama all you like, but it’s still damned offensive to compare him to Kim Jong Il (as you’d think that people who (rightfully) object to “Bushitler” would grasp.).Report
Personally, I do not hate the President. As for comparisons with Kim Jong Il, there are all kinds of cranks in this world, and you see their words a good deal more than you would have 15 years ago. ‘Tis regrettable.Report
Yes, it is regrettable that cranks slander the president. It’s also regrettable that you chose to join them.Report
You know, I never think about her until you people bring her up.Report
Seconded.Report
That could all begin to change in a hurry starting in less than 12 months, unless you also won’t be thinking about the people who are likely to have a realistic chance of securing the nomination necessary to challenge ‘Dear Leader’ for his office except when people here bring them up.Report
Sarah Palin for President? To quote another stalwart modern Republican icon “bring em on”.Report
I agree entirely. But the point is just that it’s pretty clear we will be hearing more from the former governor, and in a setting where simply ignoring or ridiculing what she has to say won’t be equal to the import of its being part of that forum.Report
The Republicans are still in the wilderness, by my lights.
I don’t see the Democrats as having achieved the necessary incompetence to elect Sarah Palin.
Yet.Report
That’s high praise coming from you.Report
Point taken. I didn’t think I wrote much about her. Then I looked back and discovered that in fact I’ve referenced her quite a bit, albeit primarily in sidebars. I’ll try to keep that in mind.Report
I think it was the “we” that got me.Report
For me at least, things get pretty clear to say that we (the mainstream Right) like Sarah Palin, but we’re not invested in her.Report
Thirded.
Well you or the radio.Report
Mark,
Can you not see?
“So we have here a truly Coughlinite movement, headed by an Eva Peron figure, eager to use the Dolchstoss card to bring out the kind of voters Rove always believed could eventually crush even the most mobilized democratic GOTV operation.” You know who
Don’t go all Chamberlain on us.
One man and his blog can not defeat the gathering menace alone.
You must join the fight!
“know fear”Report
I don’t know that I take her seriously; I tend to think of myself as a Palin agnostic, actually, although I’m pretty agnostic about most political figures. (Of course, I do live in Canada.)
Nevertheless, I think her critics sometimes forget that there are countless areas of intelligence and perhaps she most alienates those who overemphasize credentialized intelligence. This is something that probably resonates with a lot of people whose own intelligence might be unappreciated. For example, I tried at one point to get a commercial driver’s license for big rigs and found that it was extremely difficult. You have to memorize a huge manual, do pretty extensive maintenance and diagnostics every time you set out, and develop a pretty good kinesthetic sense of the vehicle. Truck driving is not for dummies. I gave up. And yet, I don’t think knowing how to drive a truck is appreciated in quite the same way as getting a higher degree. Nevertheless, as someone who’s working on a PhD, I can note that plenty of academics would look at the fact that I’m doing it at a state university and figure I’m dumb as a brick! And I can also say that plenty of ivy league academics wouldn’t have the first clue how to fix a toilet, for example. So, it’s all relative.
Moreover, since I struggle to care for my cat correctly, I can’t fathom the intelligence and basic savvy involved with raising a brood of children. If my father-in-law wasn’t an accountant, I wouldn’t know how to balance a budget. I do think I do know how to stay married. But nobody has the time to learn everything.
The point is that all of these things require different areas of intelligence- not higher or lower, just different. I think we’d do well to remember the wide variety of different intelligences the voters possess and, when people criticize Palin, I think it’s perhaps a better tactic to ask how people could take her ideas seriously, instead of asking how they could take her seriously.
In a larger sense (and this is a critique of Palin too), I’d sure like to see economists asked about economics, scientists asked about science, and politicians asked about politics, and maybe they could all stick to the topics they know!Report
The issue with debating people’s intelligence relates to the tendency to think that : agree with my political beliefs=intelligence. It’s a thing people of all ideologies to, they assume not only they have the correct beliefs (which is reasonable) but also that their beliefs are objectively correct and it is not possible to have good arguments for other beliefs.Report
I prefer to believe they’ve been brainwashed by the media or schools. Or they’re insane.Report
Only Joe Klein is smart enough to speak for society, everyone else should simply listen and learn. Joe speaks for the intellectual elite, but he has a perspicacious bead on the entire populace. If Palin could be more like Klein, the attention paid to her would be warranted.Report
I don’t care about credentials. I care about being able to speak without murdering the English language, which Palin does on a regular basis.Report
You mean murdering the English language as in, “corpseman/corpsman” which was, apparently read from a teleprompter,…though those damn things are famous for malfunctioning…better to scratch a note on the palm of your hand.Report
The occasional mispronunciation doesn’t bother me. It’s basic rules of sentence structure and grammar and the ability to get your point across when you don’t have notes in front of you. It is painful to parse Palin’s sentences when she’s being interviewed, even by the softball interviewers at Fox. Obama is a terrific off the cuff speaker.Report
Off the cuff, he says things on the order of, “Sweden had, like, five banks.”Report
Yes, I agree re: her extemporaneous speaking but geez those of us in fly-over country just love it, it makes her ya know one of us. But inherently its her ideas and I’m stickin’ to my original theme e.g. the long-legged beauty is smarter than Dear Leader…not that I agree with her ‘foreign’ policy crap.Report
I live in flyover country. Most of the folks around me are lifelong Republicans and they can’t stand Ms. Palin. The last straw for many was her decision to quit the governorship, but more than a few have simply derided her as an idiot. I don’t think she’s an idiot. I think that she is rather smart, but willfully ignorant, which I detest even more.Report
I have a confession to make- I’m maybe too “apathetic” too talk about this. I didn’t see this tea party speech and, I have to admit, I’m not sure I’ve ever listened to one of her speeches or interviews. I watched about three minutes of the debate with Joe Biden, but that’s about it. The truth about Palin is my mother thinks she’s great; my wife thinks she’s terrible; I’m a lot more interested in old books and action movies.Report
One verbal slip against Palin’s habitual slaughter of the English language? That’s pitiable, Bob.Report
Scott, re: Dear Leader’s intellectual abilities, I’m not talking about “verbal slips.” Again, what is it that makes his minions believe he’s intelligent? He strikes me as yet another faux-intellectual of the Left. In much the same mode as former VP Algore.Report
Yes, I’d forgotten the searing light of intellect that you and the John Birch society bring to modern society.Report
All we are saying is give nothing a chance.Report