More Please!
I have no idea whether this is Conor Friedersdorf taking our recent criticisms to heart or if this is something he’s been working on for awhile, but his debate with John Hawkins at Right Wing News – on Right Wing News’ turf, I might add – is precisely the sort of thing reform-minded conservatives should be doing more of. I still think Conor’s diagnosis of the problem is a bit off, but the tone and posture of his argument are right on the money. More importantly perhaps, simply by engaging in this debate with Hawkins, he goads Hawkins into a pretty solid response in which Hawkins makes some key admissions of the sort I’ve never seen from Hawkins in the past (admittedly, I’m not a regular reader). I strongly recommend both posts.
I’m not going to address Conor’s points, which are similar to points I’ve addressed in the past, but Hawkins’ points are both interesting and revealing.
Hawkins’ first point – that “moderates” seem to run the GOP – is his most obvious disagreement with Conor, who notes that the GOP leadership in recent years has had the full support of the conservative movement’s icons. I think Conor is closer to the truth here, especially since he acknowledges that those leaders have also had the support of GOP moderates, although Conor doesn’t do much to explain why these leaders have had the support of both moderates and movement conservatives. Hawkins, perhaps inadvertently, hits on this explanation in his third point – more on that in a second, though.
Hawkins’ second point is something of a straw man that comes about due to his faulty first point that moderates have been running the GOP trhe last 9 years. Specifically, he argues that the GOP has failed because of its willingness to expand the welfare state to obtain electoral advantage, which he implicitly blames on the “moderates.” Of course, the reality is that most so-called moderates, if you want to consider reformist conservatives “moderates,” want to see a reform of the welfare state to make it more efficient rather than an expansion thereof. But dialogues like this help to flesh this out rather than simply allowing the two camps to continue to make such flawed assumptions about each other.
Hawkins’ third point is his most important, though, because he gets the diagnosis of the problem right. It was, to say the least, a pleasant surprise to see that Hawkins’ diagnosis is almost exactly the same as my diagnosis. Specifically, Hawkins writes:
Conservatives WILL NOT win by following the “Reagan agenda” because Reagan’s agenda was designed, using conservative principles, to deal with the political situation of his day. Some of those battles have been won. Others have been irrevocably lost. Some have grown in importance. Others have lessened.
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It’s too bad, for example, that Republicans weren’t really pushing health care reform during the Bush years. How about environmentalism? Instead of making it all about whether we buy into global warming alarmism, how about we emphasize a positive, reasonable clean air, clean water, clean environment agenda as opposed to the extremism offered by the Democrats? On trade, instead of just repeating the words “free trade” over and over, why aren’t conservatives demanding that our government reduce barriers to American manufacturing overseas? We can go on and on with examples like this one — and it’s important that we do so instead of relying on a static agenda.
Amen.
Finally, Hawkins switches to the issue of facing the GOP’s demographic challenges. His thoughts on that issue are interesting, and amount to an implicit acknowledgement that the GOP’s continued problems with minority outreach stem in part from an overemphasis on tokenism rather than any kind of real outreach.
Anyhow, the back and forth is interesting and well worth a read. Both Conor and Hawkins deserve credit for their participation in this debate, Conor for having the gumption to directly address the base, and Hawkins for having the courage to acknowledge deep-seated problems with the conservative agenda. More reformers need to engage in these kinds of debates and more movement types need to be willing to accept the challenges presented by them. At some point, this will result in a base and, for lack of a better word, a wonk class that can work together again on an affirmative policy agenda rather than continuing to work against each other.
Good post. Most of the energy behind the dissident cons is emotional need to repudiate GWP, mainstream cons, Sean Hannity, etc. Once we get past that, most of the “substantive” issues don’t amount to much.Report
Am I missing anything, or are there no actual specifics in that third point? Taking a position for tactical reasons is pretty weak tea, especially when you don’t propose anything to solve the problem you’re claiming to care about. I’m not asking for a white paper, but this is scarcely credible.Report
Sure, it’s missing specifics, but Hawkins is not the type of commentator from whom you would demand or expect specifics – he’s not a wonk or a reformer but a voice of the base. I wouldn’t expect him to forward detailed and original policy proposals anymore than I would expect Keith Olbermann to do the same. What’s important to me is that here you have an unapologetic voice of the conservative movement base acknowledging that the “Reagan agenda” is outdated and no longer viable and that the failure to recognize this rendered the GOP incapable of good governance over the last 9 years. What’s more, he’s calling for movement conservatives to be open to new proposals that attempt to apply “conservative” principles to the problems of today – which, of course, is precisely what conservative reformers can and should be doing.Report
Fair enough. That does seem like a more hopeful sign.Report
I found their exchange rather inane. You want more?Report
I took notice of the second point, in which the expansion of the welfare state is blamed for the runaway deficits.
What makes this maddening, is the reality of the fact that we spend about 900 Billion on defense, and only 500 Billion on every other thing the government does, except Social Security and Medicare.
So this tired refrain about reining in welfare spending conjures up images of welfare queens and free spending giveaways when in fact our biggest spending programs are the wars we are fighting.
If conservatives really want to cut government spending, and balance the budget, they have to tackle defense spending and Medicare.
Unfortunately, these are both sacred cows, to both conservatives and liberals. And raising taxes? Apostasy!
This…this is why I am so frustrated with the conservative movement. Even the leading lights, even the pundits and bloggers, ignore the real spending priorities in favor of platitudes and vague slogans about “fiscal conservatism”.
A message of honesty and forthrightness laying out a program of shared sacrifice and sober realism may or may not win elections. But to posture that the Republican Party or conservative movement truly embraces fiscal conservatism is nonsense. Aside from people like Bruce Bartlett, they still haven’t grasped the painful choices we have ahead of us.Report
I’m not sure if this helps, and I mostly agree with you, but I should point out that generally when people on the Right (aside from Republican politicians) complain about the Welfare State, they mean Social Security and Medicare.
Now, for some reason, some of them (including many Republican politicians) they want to turn the former into a government-run investment fund, which is just a bad idea irrespective of the merits of SS.Report
I am actually agnostic as to the solutions; raising taxes, cutting benefits, etc.
What I lament is that there was a time when conservatives were the “green eye shade” guys, the sober adults who went around saying that there was no free lunch, that we have to pay in taxes for the benefits we receive. I made that statement over at redState and nearly got my head bitten off.
The conservative movement is today as addicted to free lunch schemes and voodoo economics as the liberals ever were; the notion that a budget has limits, that revenue and expenditures must equal each other is not only ignored, but actually detested, and usually by the same people who chant “fiscal conservatism” at rallies.Report
“[H]e argues that the GOP has failed because of its willingness to expand the welfare state to obtain electoral advantage, which he implicitly blames on the “moderates.” Of course, the reality is that most so-called moderates, if you want to consider reformist conservatives “moderates,” want to see a reform of the welfare state to make it more efficient rather than an expansion thereof.
The thing is, to the extent that ANY of that is true, there’s really no blaming that on “moderates”. I get wanting to frame George W. Bush and Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay and Trent Lott as “moderates”, but that’s about as far from the truth as it’s possible to get.Report
The people playing the Conservative Movement for suckers are not the openly “moderate”. Rather, it is those who pretend to be earnest conservatives who spout a “true” conservative messages that they don’t really believe in and do not actually support in office. Sadly, the CM is, today, so totally filled with born suckers that they think that the moderates who openly and honestly admit to disagreements with the movement, are the traitors, while the liars who always tell them what they want to hear are the ones who are being honest.Report
The thing is, to the extent that ANY of that is true, there’s really no blaming that on “moderates”. I get wanting to frame George W. Bush and Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay and Trent Lott as “moderates”, but that’s about as far from the truth as it’s possible to get.
Sadly, it appears that the Conservative movement is currently filled with true-believers in the “no true Conservative” fallacy.Report