If Facebook Is The Problem, Is This The Solution?
Elizabeth Warren is continuing in her push to break up big tech, specifically regulating companies of over $25 billion in global market as “platform utilities” and preventing them from buying up smaller companies and/or forcing them to un-acquire companies they already have (e.g., Amazon’s purchase of Whole Foods). The motivation for this is that certain companies — Google, Facebook and Amazon in particular — have allegedly gotten too big and too dominant in certain markets. Their dominance is supposedly killing innovation, damaging the economy and hurting consumers.
We’ve pawed some of this ground before. Will wrote an excellent post on Warren’s proposal asking the very pertinent question of whether this a problem that needs addressing. I wanted to add a little to that but mostly ask the second question: if this is a problem, is Warren’s proposal the right solution?
Will noted that this isn’t the first time we’ve heard that certain tech companies were getting too big for their britches. We have, at times, heard that that Netscape, America Online, MySpace and others that were invulnerable. But they ultimately proved quite vulnerable indeed. When MySpace accidentally deleted masses of user information a few weeks ago, the overwhelming response was, “MySpace still exists?”
Mar 1998: "How Yahoo! Won the Search Wars" (Fortune)
Sep 1998: Google is foundedFeb 2004: Facebook is founded
Feb 2007: "Will MySpace ever lose its monopoly?" (Guardian)Mar 2007: "Nokia. Can Anyone Catch the Cell Phone King?" (Forbes)
Jun 2007: iPhone releasedcc: @ewarren pic.twitter.com/l4CtKC9fqj
— Alec Stapp đ đ (@AlecStapp) March 13, 2019
(Stapp expands on his points here, detailing a few ways Warren misrepresents the facts to make the case for her proposal.)
While I think the collapse of previous supposed tech monopolies is a critical point to keep in mind, I’m going to push back very lightly on letting that dominate our thinking. Just because previous companies collapsed doesn’t mean the current ones will as well. The internet is still quite young, as industries go. And as an industry matures, certain companies may come to dominate. To take one example — the automobile was a technology that just was just as disruptive as the internet is. For a time, there were hundreds of car companies. But this rapidly coalesced down to three. And those companies have survived a long time (give or take the odd bailout). So it’s quite possible we’re seeing something similar in internet services.
I’ve written something germane on this subject before. Five years ago, a paper out of Princeton predicted that Facebook would die the same way MySpace did, losing 80% of its customers by 2017. I and many others took that claim apart. There were various reasons they got it wrong — using Google trends instead of pageviews to measure engagement; assuming MySpace was an appropriate model based on a sample size of one; fitting a complex curve to data that was mostly out of sample.1
You may have noticed that Facebook has not lost 80% of its customer base. It is true that Google searches for “Facebook” show a trend similar to that of MySpace (although neither shows the steep plunge the model predicted). But pageviews continue to soar. And Facebook’s revenues reached $55 billion in 2018, a sharp increase that is hardly the sign of a business on the brink.
In short, I don’t think today’s big tech companies are as vulnerable as those of the recent past. And so I don’t think that the argument that Google, Amazon and Facebook may not exist in twenty years, while a very valid point, is a particularly strong one in opposition to Warren’s proposal. So I’d like to unroll two more arguments against it.
First, to the extent that these companies are established market dominance, it’s because, as Will pointed out, we want it that way. We love one-stop shopping. We love integrated systems. We love being able to buy a computer or a phone and just … use it. Warren specifically targets Amazon Basics as a problem. But Amazon Basics has allowed people to easily acquire cheap quality products like computer cables and…people kinda like that. One of the online industries that is seeing a huge amount of competition right now is online streaming, with Netflix getting heavy competition from Amazon, Hulu, YouTube, CBS All Access, etc. And the result, if anything, is consumers complaining that they can’t get all their TV and movies in one place. In that sense, Warren’s proposal is a petty “I know what’s best for you” approach (which isn’t surprising, if you’ve followed her career at all).
(Warren’s most recent thought on the subject is that Amazon having associated businesses is like a baseball player also being the umpire. This is a poor analogy. It’s more like a baseball team controlling the concessions, the parking and the television coverage which most of them already do.)
Second, I don’t think her proposal is the right solution. You see … I don’t entirely disagree with Warren that this is a point of concern. I want a robust marketplace where disrupters can easily come in and provide new innovative services that turn old decrepit companies on their ear (or at least force them to innovate). Remember, the huge tech companies didn’t start out big. They innovated and pushed aside the likes of Yahoo, MySpace and IBM.
So the question she raised — how do we maintain the ability of disruptors to upend the marketplace? — is real. It’s something we should be thinking about. And it’s something we should be thinking about even if we accept the idea that the dominance of Amazon, Facebook and Google will fade or collapse in time.
So what needs to be done? I think we need an overhaul of financial regulations that are stifling start-ups (Sarbanes-Oxley in particular). Not the typical overhaul where we impose more regulations that big companies can eat but small companies can’t; no, I mean a real overhaul that makes starting and growing a company far easier. I think we also need a LONG overdue overhaul of patent/copyright/IP law, as Oscar has noted on several occasions. And…I don’t think the idea of using anti-trust law to keep companies from monopolizing online sales is completely stupid. Not totally. Not 100%. But that is the last tool I would reach for, not the first. It’s important to remember that while Amazon controls about half the e-commerce market, that’s only 5% of retail. When we broke up Standard Oil, they controlled 91% of the oil market. Amazon’s not there yet.
Moreover, Warren’s example of how anti-trust law would spur competition is…not very good, as Stapp points out (the quoted content is from Warren’s speech):
âIn the 1990s, Microsoftâââthe tech giant of its timeâââwas trying to parlay its dominance in computer operating systems into dominance in the new area of web browsing. The federal government sued Microsoft for violating anti-monopoly laws and eventually reached a settlement. The governmentâs antitrust case against Microsoft helped clear a path for Internet companies like Google and Facebook to emerge.â The governmentâs settlement with Microsoft is not the reason Google and Facebook were able to emerge. Neither company entered the browser market at launch. Instead, they leapfrogged the browser entirely and created new platforms for the web (only later did Google create Chrome).
Precisely. As several critics of the government lawsuit at the time noted, Microsoft’s alleged dominance of the browser market seemed an odd hill to die on (a hill that becomes less odd when you remember that Netscape was getting involved in politics while Microsoft, at least at the time, was not). The settlement only required Microsoft to share some code. It did not block them from bundling IE with their computers, which they still do. And that had nothing to do with Google and Facebook, neither of whom was involved in the browser wars or particularly cares what browser you use. A wonk like Warren should know that sort of thing.
Warren is arguing that a heavy-handed crackdown on big tech will spur even more innovation. But I see it as potentially doing the opposite: solidifying the big companies in place, keeping them from competing with each other or innovating. We’ve all seen how well that’s worked out with cable companies. Ron Bailey notes that Warren is also agitating for a breakup of Big Ag while failing to notice that heavy regulation is what created the industry consolidation in the first place. And if you’ve been watching the recent hearings on Facebook where the company is arguing for heavier content regulation, the danger of regulatory capture seems all-to-real. Do you think it’s an accident that Mark Zuckerberg took to the WaPo to argue for more regulation of his industry at the precise time Facebook’s brand is becoming tarnished? That’s not “government and business working together”; that’s an established business that sees a chance to close out future competition. Returning to Warren’s umpire analogy, this really would be like the baseball owner controlling the umpire.
And here’s where the Warren proposal takes on a more sinister tone. Look at FOSTA. Look at the increasing calls to crack down “fake news” and cyber-bullying. Look at the increasingly open attacks on Section 230. Look at the recent actions of the governments of New Zealand and Sri Lanka to censor social media in the wake of terror attacks. Can we not see where this is going? A monopolized “walled garden” of government-approved, sanitized content platforms where companies that want to push the boundaries can’t and where heavy regulatory burdens cripple innovation once competitors reach a certain size?
I have been saying on Twitter for a while that Warren is one of my less favored Democratic candidates. Because while she is often good at identifying real problems, her solutions are usually poor. The consolidation of the tech giants and their ability to guide our online experience into narrow channels may be a problem (although again, I recommend Will’s post and Stapp’s post for skepticism on that front). But I’m not seeing that this is a solution. I’m seeing that it will just create more problems.
At least, that is, if you see government control of the internet as a problem.
There are still people on my side that claim that Warren’s idea of breaking up the tech companies is very popular. I am not sure where they are getting the idea. A quick google search shows that it is not a popular idea. It is probably because they aren’t overly enabled with big tech companies. That being said, I’m not really fond of your ideas either. I’m skeptical about the entire idea that there are many would be entrepreneurs out there that would take on big tech if the regulations on starting on a business were lighter. Just like people want one stop shopping, people want somebody else to the heavy work of starting a business.Report
Warren is right that the number of startups had dropped significantly. Why exactly this is happening is a debate. But I *think* it was Stephen Bainbridge who wrote a lot about about Sarbanes-Oxley playing a big role in that.Report
You can also argue that a lot of the low-hanging fruit of the Internet and computer industries has already been taken up. Everything remaining is hard and requires a lot of time, capital, and talent to develop. The vast majority of start ups were for low-hanging fruit.
I think one of the big divides is between people who are willing to accept a good amount of financial and commercial Enron like hijinks in the name of economic dynamism and those that really thing we should these hijinks in the first place.Report
Very valid point, I think. That’s related to why I’m not convinced that Facebook will go the way of MySpace. It may lose some of its power, but I think the 90’s and 00’s were the gold rush era where companies went bust left and right. We’re now more in the gold mining era.Report
“A quick google search shows that it is not a popular idea.” Well you do have to consider the messenger there…
But yes, I doubt it’s, like popular popular.Report
“Alexa, is breaking up Amazon a popular idea?”
“No. It is not popular at all. Your query has been reported to the appropriate authorities.”Report
Nice.
But the people of NICE are smarter than that.
âAlexa, is breaking up Amazon a popular idea?â
âNo. It is not popular at all. Good news, you have been approved for an upgrade to Alexa PLUS. Say yes if you agree to the terms so you can enjoy the fabulous features of Alexa PLUS. Say yes.”Report
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another about the tech companies or Warren’s proposal.
I’m not entirely sure there is a problem to be fixed.
But what I think it interesting are the various ways we can look at tech companies.
One way of viewing them is to consider them to be private entities delivering consumer goods in a market.
Then the discussion revolves around whether our laws and policies foster more innovation and cheaper goods. In this view, government’s only role is to facilitate the delivery.
Another way to consider them is to view them as carriers like highways and railroads, delivering consumer goods.
Then the discussion focuses on fairness and access. In this view, government’s role is to be a neutral arbiter.
Another view is to see them as information gathering and dissemination devices, which is I think rather new.
This is different than “the press”, like newpapers which traditionally disseminate information. We have centuries of laws and cultural norms about how to maintain freedom of the press while still regulating it.
Tech companies don’t just disseminate information, they gather it and hoard it and sell it to the highest bidder. And as we have seen around the world, information itself is power.
We live in a world where the newspaper reads you, and stores more detailed information about you than anyone knows.
We have also seen how information warfare can move public opinion and either bring the truth to light or conceal it.
We, the people, are given legal guarantees of privacy of our information, to be “secure in our papers”, but it should be obvious that we the people have lost a large degree of control of this.
Even something so simple as your browsing history and Facebook/Instagram/Twitter history tells more about you than any love letter you may have written, yet none of it is legally under your control.
I don’t have a precise definition of the problem, and even less of a possible solution.
But looking at other nations like China or Russia, and seeing the possibilities they are exploring in the use of technology to control and suppress dissent should give anyone pause.
I do think our traditional political frameworks of Government versus Private Enterprise are not sufficient to deal with this new reality.
As we’ve seen with the NSA and the ease with which they installed information dragnets on phone companies, the idea that there is some way to build a firewall between government and private entities is a myth.
Again, I don’t have a complete grasp of this, but I do think that focusing on innovation and cheaper consumer goods probably isn’t addressing the real problem that exists.Report
I honestly don’t think very many, if any, of our politicians really want to tackle the privacy/information issue, because they want to be able to access that data set, should they get it in their head that they need to.Report
I mentioned in another thread how Twitter has been pretty inconsistent in their banning policies. If the government is going to start regulating these companies, is that on the table? And to be clear, i’m not advocating for that, but it’s an interesting discussion to be had around the value of social media platforms in our lives. Per Doctor Jay’s comment below, I really think Warren is trying to punish them for the shady things that were done around the 2016 election (and beyond).
On a brighter note, there is a rumor that IG is getting ready to make a small change where only the user can see Likes on their posts, not their audience. The goal would be to sort of ‘de-collateralize’ Likes within the platofrm, with the theory being that people might be a bit less hungry for that form of validation. It’s a good change and that’s proof that some of these companies can learn and can do good things.Report
if the government starts regulating social networks as common carriers they will be, paradoxically, both more and less stringent. People imagine the Nazis will all be banned, but that’s even less likely to happen because it will be a genuine First Amendment issue, and “well it’s a private company” won’t matter because it’s not really a private company anymore. Meanwhile, posting anything porn-like gets you a monetary fine and possibly a criminal record, instead of just your post being deleted.Report
Regulating them as common carriers is an extraordinarily bad idea.
I also have no idea how their business model would even survive such a regulation.Report
I think a lot of these large tech companies do so well because they are satisfying their customers, especially in the case of Amazon. If Amazon is broken up, it might benefit its competitors, but it is not going to make things better for the consumers.Report
I think there is very definitely a problem to be fixed. Here’s one explanation of what:
https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy?language=en
I’m not sure Warren’s solution is workable, or if it will prevent some other entity from taking over Facebook’s role. I deeply resent how Facebook has managed to insert itself into my personal relationships and leverage them for profit. I deeply resent how Facebook’s presence has destroyed other online communities that I was a part of. (And I’m grateful that it hasn’t managed to whack this one.) I deeply resent the complete lack of accountability or transparency that political entities can have via Facebook.
We could argue that this problem might go away on its own. I might say that if it isn’t Facebook, it’s someone else who will take advantage of the kind of niche FB has. Something like Facebook sort of has to exist, it seems. It might die of its own weight, but then something new will spring up and do the same sorts of things that are very bad for us personally and bad for democracy.
But that’s not the basis of action. When people do things that are illegal and bad for us, we should stop them. We don’t handle criminal behavior with “Well, he’ll die eventually and stop doing those bad things”. I don’t find that an acceptable argument.
And by the way, as far as I’m concerned, this is a Facebook problem, not a tech problem. People such as Cadwalladr above often tack on Google and Twitter with a “they are bad too”, but never specify how.Report
Lost in all this is the fact that using consumer welfare as the sole determining factor in applying anti-trust laws is fairly recent. Workers and the general public are greatly affected by monopolies, whether naturally occurring or not. Greater and greater concentration of power in business is just as corrosive and corruptible as in government. In the last few decades we’ve ignore that all because we can buy cheap goods.Report
Fair point, but how do you cut that knot? When is a company too big and having too much power? Once that is determined, how do you split it up such that you don’t potentially do more damage than just leaving it alone (especially if it was a relatively benign power)?
And what about companies that never would have been able to get that big (or stay there) absent some manner of regulatory interference?
Traditionally, monopolies that were in need of government intervention tended to exhibit specific behaviors that were harmful.Report
I don’t have a satisfactory answer to that. A one size fits all approach would surely create more problems. And certain companies lend themselves to dismantling more easily. Amazon has such distinct lines of businesses that I’d imagine splitting them up would be less problematic than others.
I don’t necessarily agree with Warren’s proposal, but I do give her credit for starting a conversation that needed to be had. I’m sure most people would acknowledge there should be some type of limit to a company’s size and market control. What that is and how do we address it is the hard part as you mention.
For now I’d love to see these companies face some repercussions when they actual cross a legal/regulatory line. Amazon, Google and Facebook have clearly engaged in anti-competitive behavior, and all they get in the U.S. is a stern talking to from politicians with an appalling lack of understanding of anything technology-related.Report
This is one of my biggest issues with Warren’s proposal. She seems to be mostly targeting companies that are unpopular in progressive circles without really investing a lot of thought into it. Amazon’s position is different from Facebook’s is different from Google’s. Hard to think a one-size-fits-all approach works for all three.Report
BingoReport
Yeah I think this is about the size of it.
And it will be somewhat popular for that reason.
But so would promising drone strikes on Facebook headquarters.Report
I agree with your analysis of the issues Michael. Protecting competition is an efficiency-enhancing use of government power, but that relies on government power being employed on the right targets in the right way. Barriers to entry are much more important than market concentration when it comes to encouraging competition.
If entry and exit to the various technology industries is still sufficiently easy, the the size of the companies in that industry doesn’t matter as they will not have much market power to exploit in spite of their size. If entry has become harder than that is the problem that needs to be solved, and setting an arbitrary size threshold and punishing any company over it will do nothing to solve the real problem.Report
Good post, Michael. But if I’m being honest, I feel like a rube for even commenting on this. It’s a trap. All of this has happened before (with the railroads and the oil industry and the telecoms, etc.) and all of this will happen again with the next big technology that gets big enough to challenge the government for supremacy.
Why should we pretend that this is going to be handled in a way that has any meaningful impact from us as citizens and consumers? The outcome will be negotiated almost strictly between the two parties and stage manages in such a way that suggests civic participation, but is mostly devoid of it. The tech companies will come to the table with their demands, focused on product development and preserving market share. And the government will come to the table with its demands, focused on maximizing revenue and bureaucratic reach. And both parties will come to some agreement that gives them both most of what they want at the expense of us.
And I don’t say any of this to sound dystopian. Maybe the new equilibrium will give us most everything we want for not too high a cost. I honestly have no idea. What I do know is that I resent Elizabeth Warren and people like her who want to try to make me believe that this is going to go any other way.Report
The problem is that everyone who gets on the internet needs about two years of being an absolute tool before they figure out how to behave, but back in the 1990s that happened on USEnet or IRC, where nobody could see it who wasn’t already there. These days your Tweets go on the evening news and your Facebook posts get sent to your boss, so all the internet-juvenile-delinquency hangs around your neck until the end of time.
So. I’d argue that the problem isn’t any particular company being too big; the problem is that social media is a part of society, and people need to learn how to be a part of society, and so far the attitude that the Internet is just nerds’n’porn is making people not take it seriously.
And, heck, it’s not like people in general are particularly good at being in society in the first place. It’s 2019 and scams invented before telephones existed are still catching scared uncles and well-meaning housewives.Report
This. Seriously, if the government wants to make FB, IG, Twit, etc. better, they could simply demand that new accounts are set to max privacy by default, and stay that way until the user is 18, and or at least a year has passed before they can start touching the settings.Report
The government doesnât want to maximize your privacy. They just want to make sure that the tech companies canât keep all that data to themselves.Report
I know, I said as much further upthread.Report