Great Minds Think Alike, Small Minds Seldom Differ
I promised to not reach any scientific conclusions in my personality test post and I intend to keep that promise by pointing out that these conclusions are not scientific.
(Before we say anything, though, I think that I should say that I tried to come up with something interesting regarding Enneagram numbers but there were far too many people with three numbers, let alone with two numbers for me to do anything with… and even if I were able to do something with the numbers… then what? Though I did consider adding all of the numbers together and dividing by 65 and coming to a conclusion about that.)
Now when it comes to the meat of the essay, the meat I was able to butcher anyway, I’d like to say that we had pretty awesome turnout. We had 65 people provide their Myers-Briggs data (12 of these people pointed out that they read but usually didn’t comment that often… and that’s the only criteria I’m using for whether I’m going to include them in the “reads but usually doesn’t comment that often” category, and that’s really sweet). But before we get to the results, we should take a look at what the usual breakdown of Myers-Briggs categories are. The good stuff, is, of course, after the cut.
I was going to use the MBTI Statistics that I get from the Foundation itself because, hey. It’s the Foundation. Then I remembered “Hey. Didn’t you say that you wouldn’t reach any scientific conclusions?” and so I said “WIKIPEDIA!!!” so I went there. They linked me to here.
So I’m using that.
I’m also planning on doing comparisons between “Total Numbers” rather than attempt a gender breakdown of the site because, hey, science. So what does the chart say?
Well, if you’ve got 100 people randomly distributed, you’ll have percentages that look like the following:
Check that out. About half of everybody is one of four personality types: ISTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, and ESFJ. That’s quite a distribution.
That, in itself, makes me wonder about our own little band of self-selected, self-reporting folks.
Here’s what I said in the original thread, a million years ago: “I’m pretty sure that everybody here is an INTP or an INTJ, for example. I know that I, in my own life, don’t interact with a whole lot of non-NT types. (IT. You know how it is.)”
So let’s see how that prediction holds up…:
Holy cow! More than half of those of us who reported are one of TWO personality types. INTP or INTJ. More than 1/3rd of those who reported are INTJs. (though I should point out: When it comes to the folks who, by their own admission, read but don’t usually comment that often, the breakdown is this: INTJ 8, INTP 1 ,INFP, 1 ESTJ 1, ENTP 1.)
To break it down even more, it seems like we have an overwhelming number of Ns vs. Ss (58 vs. 7!!!), a pretty lopsided breakdown of Is vs. Es (48 and a half vs. 16 and a half) and a statistically equally lopsided number of Ts vs. Fs (48 vs. 17), and the *CLOSEST* we come to parity is the Js vs. Ps (35ish vs. 27ish).
The way that the tests usually break stuff down is between the N-third letters and the S-fourth letters, so let’s do that. We had 42 NTs, 16 NFs, 4 SJs, and 3SPs… which leads me to my non-scientific conclusion:
It’s not *THAT* surprising that a group of self-selected people would end up in a vaguely homogenous society. Not necessarily people who agree on the semantics of any given topic, but people who unconsciously already agree on the syntax. It’s like picking up a videogame controller and knowing, automatically that ‘A’ jumps, right-trigger shoots, and select opens the inventory… and being able to play within seconds without having to look at the guide. Or, for those not video game savvy, going over to a friend’s house and opening the cabinet where you would put the coffee cups and, ta-dah, that’s where the coffee cups are. Opening the right drawer on the first try and finding the spoons.
Of course, someone who does not think about things the same way as others (even if they superficially agree) will find that when they visit the friend’s proverbial kitchen, they have to open every single dang cabinet before finding the coffee cups (WHY WOULD YOU PUT THE COFFEE CUPS NEXT TO THE STOVE RATHER THAN NEXT TO THE SINK???). Or, in video game parlance, to have ‘A’ be cancel and ‘B’ be interact. Immediately, you sit down and you don’t know how to do anything… when you do things the way you’ve always thought about them, you close menus you were trying to open and you keep finding the spatulas instead of the spoons.
This can get frustrating and given that there are so very many opt-in communities out there where people can visit and immediately know where everything is, it’s a lot easier to sit down and feel like you’re at home. (For example, whatever the personality distribution happens to be at etsy, I’m willing to bet that it’s not going to map 1:1 with our personality distribution here. The same again for the forums at ESPN’s website.) I’m thinking that, when it comes to communicating, we’re spending far too much time on semantics and making the semantics welcome and open without thinking about the underlying syntax. If we don’t tackle the underlying things that we don’t even think about because they’re just so intuitive, we’ll be stuck wondering why people show up and immediately feel like they’re at home and others show up and keep communicating that, no matter how much we say “make yourself at home! get some coffee!”, they feel like they’re just visiting.
If we want folks to feel as hospitably welcome as we are trying to make them feel, we have to do a better job with making them not feel like just visitors despite our best, most well-intentioned efforts.
We’re not a very S group.
I think I shall attempt to cultivate a voice.Report
I roll the toothpaste from the bottom.Report
How long have you been depressed Pierre?Report
I used to roll from the bottom, but recently switched to squeezing in the middle. My Face Book wall is now plastered with party invites.Report
I use the edge of my toothbrush to push it up from the bottom, leaving the empty bit flattened out with all the toothpaste at the top. What does that say about me?Report
It says you are somehow still able to purchase toothbrushes with old-school flat-edged handles instead of the stupid ‘ergonomic’ rounded ones that are now all the rage*, and I want to know where you get them, because I like to do this too and I can no longer find them and using my comb to flatten the tube is not cutting it.
* I mean, seriously. Did you ever think, back when you were brushing with your standard translucent rectangular-handled Oral-B that you got from your dentist or the supermarket, ‘man, my hand sure is tired from gripping this unnatural shape?’
More irritatingly, the newer rounded toothbrush handles invariably cause rollover if you try to set them down on the counter with toothpaste on them for one second so you can put the cap back on the tube.
Gah. It’s all a plot to sell new toothbrush holders, because the new ergonomic handles don’t fit in the old smaller slots. It had to be, because otherwise it is just an egregious design failure, taking something exceedingly simple & utilitarian and making it less useful and annoying at a time of day when you are tired and JUST WANT TO BRUSH YR DANG TEETH.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I think I see some kids on my lawn…Report
Bad news: I’m using exactly the Oral-B toothbrush you’re complaining about. I use the fat end to flatten out the tube.Report
IMO the rounded ones just don’t work as well. They don’t get all…the…paste….argh!
So I don’t know if we’ve figured out your personality, but mine seems clear. Rain Man, crossed with Abe Simpson.Report
A few thoughts…
Regarding your analogy of video game controllers and kitchen cupboards, I was reminded of a “diversity” activity once described to me. The activity begins by dividing people into small groups and handing them a deck of cards and a set of rules for a variant of poker. They’re tasked with reading the rules and committing them to memory before returning the rules sheet. They are then instructed to play a few hands of the game. Soon after, groups are mixed, but only so that the bulk of each group remains the same with one or two new people joining. The game continues.
What the folks don’t realize is that they’ve all been given different rule sheets. So a person playing a straight game of poker is suddenly sitting down with folks who are treating 2’s as wilds. The new person celebrates a win only to realize the chips being raked over to someone with a seemingly inferior hand, unaware that it was made the winner by a rule he was not aware of. Chaos ensues.
I haven’t yet performed the activity, but it seems an interesting way to demonstrate what you are describing here, and to put people into a role that they might not otherwise be in, as an outsider entering a community which they presume acts a certain way but doesn’t and which is unwilling to budge on that.
Okay, that was all the FIRST thing.
The second thing? Never go to the ESPN.com forums. NEVER. They’re like hell. They’re worse than YouTube comments.
Third? I’m the toothpaste tube on the left.Report
Heh. My wife is the one on the left, I am second from left.Report
To your second point: I am going now. So there.Report
I’ve played that game. The interesting part for me was not so much what happened, but in how people unpacked what happened, and how mad some people got about people who didn’t take the game seriously because they’d figured out it was a game right away. “WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU JUST BLUFFED YOUR WAY THROUGH??”
🙂Report
This. Is. Awesome.Report
See? M-B can have a purpose 😛Report
Since I’ve given my results before, and since I wasn’t paying attention to the computer over the weekend when the original post got play, I took 5 minutes this morning and took the test again. I swung back over from an “E” to an “I” again and the P/J split seems to be migrating back towards “P”, but my N got **way** stronger.
INTJ seems to be a huge skew here – 25 of us?
INTJ
Introvert(44%) iNtuitive(75%) iNtuitive Thinking(38%) Judging(1%)
You have moderate preference of Introversion over Extraversion (44%)
You have distinctive preference of Intuition over Sensing (75%)
You have moderate preference of Thinking over Feeling (38%)
You have marginal or no preference of Judging over Perceiving (1%)Report
Funny part of this: my three favorite posts of my own (not counting grandpa), one of them was very N and the other two were about as S as you can get (nukes and mass killings), and the S posts got more huzzahs than anything else I’ve written (again, not counting grandpa).Report
Erm, can you really say a topic makes a post S-like in nature? Doesn’t it have more to do with how you address/envision/whatever the topic? (Or maybe that’s what you meant, and I’m reading wrong…)Report
yes. I post about pizza, it’s gonna be an S post.Report
That’s what I meant.Report
8 of the 25 are people who say that they don’t comment that much. There are a handful of tentative conclusions we might reach about folks who feel most comfortable commenting for the first time, maybe… that is, if we don’t want to reach conclusions about how this website is INTJ catnip.Report
Among the Masthead:
INTP – 2
ENFP – 2
INTJ – 2
ENTP – 1
INFP – 1
ENTJ – 3
ESTJ – 1
Two significant points stick out here (if any inference from a sample size of 12 can be called significant):
(1) There seems to be a more-balanced distribution of MB types among contributors.
(2) All three ENTJs – Burt, Kazzy, and Myself – are contributors. This makes sense if we’re a community of mostly NTs.Report
Ooooh. It never even occurred to me to tally up the Masthead…Report
Interesting that I am the only one with an S from the masthead.Report
I’m an S too. It must go with being a Mike.Report
I’m another INTJ who doesn’t comment here often – but for some reason my anti-virus software wasn’t letting me post on that thread.
But it’s not surprising that INTJ’s would visit this site. Taking the Myers-Briggs letter designations out of the equation, we’re talking about people who self-identify as intellectuals with strong opinions who are comfortable on computers. No shock that they post on this site. I bet that if you did a survey on a “share pictures of yourself naked in public places” site, you wouldn’t find as many shy intellectuals.
I’d also be willing to bet that more people who identify themselves as INTJ’s are familiar enough with Myers-Briggs typology, because it gives us a way to intellectualize human relationships. The kind of person who, I don’t know, has human emotions is less interested in a grid-pattern for understanding people.Report
Jaybird, this is a really good post. I particularly like the suggestion that the LoOG community has coalesced around a shared syntax rather than a shared semantics. I think that idea has a lot of explanatory power and goes a long ways in accounting for some persistent disputes between people with different personality types here at the league.
I think it also suggests some worries about increasing diversity at this site. If expressions of diversity were to reduce to semantical differences within the pre-dominant LoOG syntax, then diversity of opinion will more than likely be assimilated, encouraged and viewed as stimulating. If diversity were to be expressed in a different syntax (either with or without a different semantics, tho) it seems to me it would run counter to the predominant syntactic culture of the league, which could be disruptive in it’s own right.Report
To run with the kitchen analogy some more, if someone comes over and we say “get something to drink” and they walk into the kitchen and *BAM* they find the coffee cups on the first try, *BAM* find the celestial seasonings in the cupboard on the first try, *BAM* find the honey on the first try… it doesn’t matter if we’re mostly coffee drinkers and they’re a tea drinker. They’re going to feel at home in the kitchen.
And someone who needs to be shown where everything is (WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT THERE?) the first couple of times, then have to remember where everything is each and every time they visit… well, they’ll never ever feel at home even if they, like us, are coffee drinkers.
And I don’t even know if that is a problem, let alone a solvable problem.Report
(For the record: not a coffee drinker, tea drinker, primarily herbal teas, lemon not milk, honey not sugar)Report
Steeped, not stirred.Report
And I don’t even know if that is a problem, let alone a solvable problem.
It’s only a problem if TPTB want to change the location of the stuff in the kitchen. If we’re just talking about changing the stuff in the cupboards, or including more stuff, I’m not sure how you do that from outside the kitchen.Report
“WHY WOULD YOU PUT THE COFFEE CUPS NEXT TO THE STOVE RATHER THAN NEXT TO THE SINK???”
In our house the location of our dishes was determined by their proximity to the dish washer.Report
in my house it was determined by how sticky the cabinets were.
used house, used cabinets.Report
This was an interesting exercise.
As an aside, I don’t dig the frequent anxiety about diversity, but it’s nothing new for our culture. I like the high number of authentic people here, diversity be damned.Report
I hear what you’re saying. But as a guy who grew up in a very non-diverse place (diversity meant we had both German Lutherans and German Catholics), then moved to California, I came to appreciate diversity just in terms of that old saying, “variety is the spice of life.” Nothin PC about it–it’s just more interesting than te same ol’ same ol’.Report
I gotta say, diversity in your local environment does mean that you get some bitchin’ food options.Report
Some of us were chatting about this article on Twitter and since we do have a lot of noobs like me since 2012 (and we can comment in old threads now) I thought it might be fun to compare notes.
Anyone interested?
Signed, INTPReport
I imagine that this place remains INTx catnip.Report
I like the theory that this place drives me up the wall periodically because I’m an ENFP.
I can’t back it up and I don’t think it has any explanatory power and I’m pretty sure MB is bunk and really calling it a “theory” is far too charitable but I’m still gonna roll with it.Report
Eh, like Evopsych, I’m pretty sure that there’s a there there.
That doesn’t mean we know how to read it or how to use it to make predictions but you meet an INTP and you know it. You meet an INTJ and you know it. You see your ESFx friend having conversations with complete and total strangers and it’s, like, nuts.Report