If I ever visit Topeka, I shall pack dancing shoes
Fred Phelps is dead.
It is usual, on the passing of a fellow human being, to avoid speaking ill of him or her. To afford that person a certain dignity in death, as though the mere act of dying confers a sort of benefaction. There is an unseemliness that attaches to treating the person’s demise as anything other than sad.
To hell with all that.
Fred Phelps was a blight. He was a receptacle for the absolute worst, most despicable kind of hatred humanity is capable of producing. The god of his imagining was a demon of bile, and his appearance before the public eye was a festering sore.
I do not regret the happiness I feel knowing I no longer share an oxygen supply with him. I do not believe in the existence of a hell, even for the likes of people like him. If there is a judgment that awaits him, let his loved ones hope it is before a judge more merciful than the one he worshiped.
It is a truism on the Internet that to invoke a comparison to the Nazis is to lose one’s argument immediately. Does anyone doubt the comparison is apt in this case? Does anyone dispute that the deceased would have been the first to sign up for duty packing people like me, my husband and many of my friends off to the ovens? Shall I strive to find a reason to speak well of him?
I decline.
Let his equally-despicable “church” mark his passing with whatever rituals and rites they hold dear. May he rest in more peace than the innocent people whose own funerals he profaned with his message of vitriol. And may his memory sink into prompt obscurity.
The Phelps clan are consummate attention whores.
I used to live in Topeka – they’d scream obscenities at you as you were walking in Gage Park, etc – but when they came into the restaurant where I worked, they were quiet and unassuming. Until someone recognized them for who they were, and then the AW side came out again.Report
It is usual, on the passing of a fellow human being, to avoid speaking ill of him or her.
I think this practice is based on the assumption that it is uncouth to speak ill of anyone who isn’t present since they have no way of responding to what is being said.
Now, this seems assumption seems laughably dated. We talk about people all the time without telling them we are going to talk about them. So, I don’t think it makes that much sense to carve out a special exemption for the dead.Report
As old as it is, I doubt that’s the purpose. More likely it’s a cross between reverence and respect for the mourning.Report
All of the above.In the case of Phelps, though, I struggle to be too concerned about those mourning him.
I found out, much to my shock, that my comic book dealer back home was a follower. Saw him on a picture of a protest wearing the same Washburn shirt he often wore at the shop. I quit collecting comics around that time. The lack of comic book shops being a reason.Report
Freddie Mercury: “Another one bites the dust, heh, heh.”Report
I remember when news broke of Osama Bin Laden’s killing. I didn’t expect any outpouring of sympathy — at least not from the vast, vast majority of Americans. But I do remember being a little bit appalled at scenes of people gathering in the streets to celebrate as if their favorite team had just won the Super Bowl (which itself is always a bit absurd, and I say that as a sports fan).
“I’m glad he’s dead!” wouldn’t have bothered me.
“Thank god!” wouldn’t have.
“He got what he deserves and I hope he rots in hell!” would have seemed similarly understandable, and acceptable.
But… “Hey, man! Grab some beers and a beach ball! Osama’s dead and we’re all heading down to the square!” Ugh. That just seemed wrong to me.
I say this because I think there are times it appropriate to be relieved or even glad at an individual’s passing. And that there are appropriate ways and times to express such feelings. And I think this individual and the manner in which you, Russ, are expressing your feelings is wholly appropriate.
Just avoid whatever urge you might have to throw a tailgate in celebration.Report
I couldn’t be bothered to go to that kind of effort.Report
Entropy wins again!!!Report
I apologize if I implied otherwise. I was trying to say that I think you threaded the needle of appropriately responding to the death of someone whom you are not sad to see go without becoming morbid.Report
How did you feel about “Yay! We killed Bin Laden! Suck it, Republicans!”
Because there was a good bit of that where I was sitting.Report
I think Bin Laden’s death speaks well of Hillary Clinton’s effectiveness, and ability to diagnose and fix a complicated situation with a simple, and effective team.
Democrats in general may cheer her ingenuity, but as none of the rest of them suggested such a bold plan, really ought to not take credit for it.Report
I didn’t personally see any of that, but I would have been bothered by it as well.
I remember Breitbart’s death bringing out some weirdness ’round these parts. It was discomforting.Report
I was disturbed by the bin Laden celebrations in a way that I’m not by the glee over Phelp’s death. In addition to the manner of celebration you mentioned, I think it’s also that the US government had bin Laden killed. By extension, it was the will of the American people. To have those same people have a party over the killing makes it feel almost like mob justice and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.Report
Well said.Report
Sic Semper Tyrannis
I think don’t speak ill of the dead is a good rule most of the time especially for private citizens even bigoted ones. But if you make a career out of spewing hatred and bigotry and/or cause a lot of pain than people are going to rejoice your death. This has been true forever.
Keep in mind that Fred Phelps was so hateful that everyone other homophobes and social cons kept their distance.
Then again, there are also going to be people who are heroes to some and despised by others. My dramatic writing professor in college said that his father started dancing when news about FDR’s death was announced on the radio. He was a Kansas Republican lawyer during the long years of the New Deal and probably voted: Hoover, Landon, Wilkie, Dewey. Obviously some of us still like FDR.Report
I really think that you should reconsider the phrase you use considering its most famous user in American history.Report
hey, it was worth a shot.Report
In order to be a tyrant, don’t you have to have some kind of state power and not just be a bitter old man with a small cult following?Report
Sic semper douchebags!Report
Technically, I suppose. In popular paralance, tyrant is often used to describe any person with a domineering and over-bearing demeanor that lords of a group of people. Under that defintion, Phelps and many other people can be described as tyrants.Report
Is it true that he died from AIDS?Report
By the way, this is another interesting case in headline writing. I first saw the headline “Fred Phelps dead” and thought “I have no idea who that is. I guess another celebrity.”
Then I saw “Westboro Baptist Church Founder dead” and got it. I know it’s nowhere near as bad as reducing someone to which celebrity they dated, but is it OK to refer to them by their work rather than solely by their name?Report
I understand he used to date Eva Braun.Report
The vast majority of the people that despised him won’t sink to his level to desecrate his funeral.
But that still leaves a good-sized crowd.Report
It might be bad enough that he’d have his own flock around.Report
+1Report
I was going to do an off-the-cuff post for this event when I saw the news pop up on my reader in court. It would have included a reference to Mr. Phelps’ recent excommunication from the church he founded, for suggesting that the church members be kinder to each other (really), and I was going to title it “Unmourned.”
The Doc’s post, however, accomplishes the task. The best that can be said of Phelps and his life’s work was that it created a Supreme Court case that underlined the scope of freedom of speech, and First Amendment principles are rarely vindicated by likeable people. Indeed, as here, while we’re better off for such people having the right to say their hateful things, we’re even more better off when they thereafter shut the hell up and let civil dialogue displace whatever it was that drew the ire of a unit of government — and we can be certain that Fred Phelps shall be speaking no more.Report
I think it is probably true that, in the full balance, Phelps did more to help the LGBT movement than harm it. Which does not excuse the pain he caused to those individual families burying their dead, nor that pain he caused when his “God Hates Fags” message was still fresh, new words that still had bite.
But his antics lost their power fast. And he was such an over-the-top jackass, the perfect foil. It was in our best interest to make him the face of homophobia.
I mean, who on earth would want to be like him? He was a caricature of himself.
Now that he is gone, I suggest we broadcast the words of Cathy Brennan, his true descendant, far and wide. (After all, it is time we trans folks took center stage in the struggle.)Report
Phelps did more to help the LGBT movement than harm it
The Onion’s take is similar: http://www.theonion.com/articles/fred-phelps-man-who-forever-stopped-march-of-gay-r,35582/Report
@vikram-bath — OMG YES!Report
@veronica-dire I agree with you about Cathy Brennan and her ilk–the problem is that there are a wealth of anti-trans activists out there. Why her and not someone else?Report
@zane — She is currently very vocal, very wealthy, and very driven. Also, she is on a personal level entirely odious, which makes her a good face for hate.
But “good face,” I mean a person who makes her position look bad. We want people to listen to her, because people will find her very unsympathetic, and thus they will project those negative views onto the broader trans-exclusionary movement.
Julie Burchill would be another likely candidate. She’s just a big, prickly ball of hate.
This is about saying, “Look at the caliber of person who hates us. Do you want to be like them?”
People will not.Report
I read a little bit more on Cathy Brennan, and she certainly seems to be near-Phelpsian in her activities. One problem is that Phelps was a Christian. He alienated and attacked others who were Christians. Even those who might have agreed with him found themselves having to distance themselves and work to appear more moderate.
Cathy Brennan, odious as she is, is working from a much smaller base and a marginalized group compared to Christianity. Many who see her vile antics will simply say (and in fact, have already said), “Look at those feminists. They attack their own! Good! We’re better off without any of those freaks!” Here’s an example: http://theothermccain.com/2014/01/04/everybody-hates-cathy-brennan-troll-under-the-bridge-on-the-crazyville-road/Report
The scope of freedom of speech. To me, by and large, nothing wrong with the Alito dissent. Not something I see myself writing often.
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I hope that Phelps’ death brings a close to the Westboro Baptist Church. More than that though, I hope that it encourages LGBT advocates to focus their sights on anti-gay figures who actually matter.
Phelps was a sideshow. His church was nothing but a distraction, a target for our collective sense of self-righteousness. He held no real influence outside his cult. LGBT organizations used him to drum up outrage, while anti-gay organizations used his rhetoric to make their own stances seem moderate.Report
There was a line from the movie Rob Roy that seems appropriate enough.
“I will think on you dead, until my husband makes you so. And then I will think on you no more.”
I look forward to never thinking about him ever again.Report
Just so.Report
To one’s self be true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXu6QmxpJEReport
“Does anyone dispute that the deceased would have been the first to sign up for duty packing people like me, my husband and many of my friends off to the ovens?” When “they” come you have a few choices: 1) run and hide, 2) comply 3) resist. This is why firearm ownership is so critical. What could be more noble than to die defending youself from evil such as this?
Re Phelps: Didn’t think much of him, won’t miss him now that he’s gone, and while I don’t believe in a heaven, I do believe in evil and vengence. I do hope that there is a hell. Phelps doesn’t belong on the lowest rift, but he’d not be on the top layer either.Report
All I can say is that I earnestly hope there is not a soul protesting this creatures funeral. Let his family bury him like a rabid put down animal, ignored and unremarked.Report
That was the first thought I had as well.Report
When I think about Fred Phelps, his legacy, and his death, I’m only sad.
He wasn’t an effective messenger of his hate. He alienated those who might have looked at him as an ally. I’m certainly grateful for that. The end of his life seemed especially pathetic if the reports are true.
At the end of it all, he was another person with deep flaws. His obsessions spoiled his potential and ruined his family. His vision of god was the one I feared as a child–the angry, unreasoning and omnipotent abusive parent. He brought pain to others in the bizarre belief that he could save people from the eternal torment that such a god would surely bring.
He died, apparently, an outcast from his church, estranged in one way or another from his children, and without having made things the least bit better from his perspective.
I can’t but feel sad for the misery he caused among his family, his followers, his neighbors, and among his targets. I also feel sad for the misery and fear he likely felt. The world and he are both probably better off for his death, but what unhappier thing could ever be said about anyone?Report
Well, knowing my leftier peers, someone may sojourn out to his grave and do a ritual to turn him posthumously gay* so perhaps he’ll have a fabulous afterlife.
*Though seriously, gross! Don’t do it satanist lefties! What did gays ever do to you?Report