The Dish at 10
Erik has already said much of what I would like to say about the 10th anniversary of Andrew Sullivan’s Daily Dish. But I’d like to add a few words of my own, nonetheless.
I first started reading Andrew sometime in 2001, almost certainly after having found him via the Drudge Report, of which I was an avid reader at the time. By the middle of 2002 or so, I was hooked, and I struggle to think of any period since where I’ve gone more than perhaps a week or two without giving the Dish a good read. Like so many others, Sullivan was indeed the most immediate and direct inspiration for my entrance into the blogosphere, ever so briefly in 2005 and again when I entered it for good in 2007.
Sullivan is all that so many have said about him over the years, both good and bad. But to me, the good has just about always outweighed the bad (with the notable exception of his interest in Sarah Palin’s uterus). More importantly, though, the same traits that can make Sullivan so frustrating to read at times are also the same traits that make him unfailingly interesting and intellectually stimulating.
Ultimately, though, the reason I keep going back to Sullivan day after day and year after year, has more to do with the areas where I disagree with him than the areas where I agree with him. I struggle to think of many – if any – writers who have had the ability to change my mind, and indeed my entire outlook, more frequently and with more force than Sullivan. This ability, I think, stems from Sullivan’s insistence on weaving reasoned factual arguments with a raw emotion and passion that his detractors so often characterize as “shrill.” It is that emotion and passion, driven by real-world concerns rather than loyalty to any “party or clique,” that makes him impossible to ignore and that brings his words to life.
For me, that emotion and passion when applied to Andrew’s arguments about same-sex marriage, full civil rights for gays, and anti-gay prejudice more generally made me confront my beliefs head-on in a way I never would have imagined. They made me realize that what I had tried to rationalize away as simply “common sense” views about human nature and sexuality and as the furthest thing possible from bigotry was, in fact, exactly that: bigotry.
A year later, for the first time in my life, I had the experience of a friend coming out. I like to think that I responded appropriately and supportively to this news, though it’s certainly possible (even likely) that my ego has made me remember being less awkward and more casual about it than I actually was. Regardless, I know how I would have reacted to this news before I ever read Andrew Sullivan, and the thought of that does not fill me with pride. Instead, I suspect the thought of how I would have reacted before encountering Andrew Sullivan – which is the way many in the past, and (sadly) the present would have reacted – goes a long way to explaining why it took until my 25th year on this planet for me to learn that someone I knew was gay.
I also am certain that I am far from the only person who has been influenced by Andrew Sullivan in that manner. For that fact alone, the Dish should forever be worth celebrating.
UPDATE: While we’re here, it’s worth congratulating the whole crew at the Dish for having the good sense to arbitrarily have chosen today to celebrate their 10th anniversary and turn their joint into a haven for self-congratulatory ego-stroking. Besides the Dish’s 10th and the Economics sorta-Nobel Prize, there’s nothing out there today but a bunch of non-troversies and trivialities.
UPDATE 2: In the comments to Erik’s post, Katherine makes what I think is a fairly accurate criticism of Sullivan, but also a criticism that I think explains why I still enjoy him so much. Katherine writes:
Sullivan seems incapable of moderation – on torture, on civil liberties, on Iraq, on Obama, on Palin, there is no middle ground.
This is, as I said, exactly correct. But I think I’ve gotten to the point where I view moderation in argumentation as fundamentally ineffective and unhelpful. I think moderate argumentation tends to result too often in the side you’re trying to convince simply reading the things you concede and dismissing out of hand the things you don’t. To be sure, I think it’s superior to most of what passes for “principled debate,” which I often find to be more about caricature, straw-manning, and subject-changing than about actually trying to persuade. Nonetheless, when I think about the arguments that have actually persuaded me over the years, they are the arguments that are unequivocal, even passionate, but also try to put the best case forward that they actually can. A well-executed argument of this nature may not ultimately be persuasive, but it will at least have the benefit of allowing the debate to get boiled down to a normative core and force the listener to confront whether they are comfortable with their normative position.
Unfortunately, such arguments are hard to make; they require dedication and patience, even as they encourage frustration and despair, each leading to ad hominen and other logical fallacies. Few, if any, can do it consistently – and that includes Sullivan. The best one can do is try. To his credit, I think he does exactly that.
If I filled out a binary for/against questionnaire about our views on various topics, I am not sure there is anyone in the upper echelon that I would agree with more than Andrew Sullivan. Ultimately, though, I find him unreadable precisely because of the raw emotionalism that some people find so compelling. It leads him to have little or no respect for people that disagree with him. So even on issues where he and I are mostly in agreement, I find myself cringing at the way that he frames it as a battle of good and evil. That he tempers the goodness of the good (he has negative things to say about Obama, for instance, just as he had negative things to say about Bush when he was a Bush supporter) ultimately does not compensate for his need to demonize the evil.
I guess I ultimately consider the world to be a complicated place that isn’t always full of easy answers even on subjects where I’ve come to my conclusion. When explains vehemently that the world is not complicated, I am impressed with his writing ability but almost never brought any closer to his point of view. This is in marked contrast to TLOOG.
All of that being said, the guy is an institution and he has contributed immensely to blogdom. Whatever my personal reservations about his work, that is hard to deny. I think I originally found TLOOG via The American Scene, but I found The American Scene (many years earlier) by way of Sullivan.Report
@Trumwill, See update 2, above, which is in response to a similar point.
On the whole, I think yours is an entirely accurate criticism, but I wonder whether that kind of demonization can’t be effective if it’s relatively well-focused. That’s not to say that Sullivan is always, or even usually, well-focused in his demonizations, but at least initially even those demonizations can serve an entirely legitimate purpose.Report
@Mark Thompson, oh, I think demonization can be quite effective. I do think in the case of Sullivan, though, it becomes counterproductive. If you’re unsure about gay marriage, for instance, there’s a good chance that you’re one of the people he is calling bloodthirsty in his next post about the Iraq war. Or vice-versa. Once somebody is on the receiving end of his rants on Topic A, I don’t know how likely most are to listen to him on the subject of Topic B.
There are some people I read despite the fact that the writer obviously has a chip on his shoulder about “people like me” so I think there’s something else about Sullivan’s writing that I find to be offputting. But I think for a lot of people, being on the receiving end is enough to get you to tune out. I think he succeeds in hardening people’s opinions, but I question whether he succeeds in really changing minds all that often.Report
@Trumwill, He played a role in changing my mind about Iraq, both times that I changed it!
Andrew doesn’t conflate people he disagrees with on one topic with people he disagrees with on another. That’s one of the attractive things about him – he’s not lumping his opponents together into an undifferentiated mass, however strongly he feels about it.
On some things his extremism is very appropriate in my view – torture, for instance. On others – the parentage of Trig Palin, for instance, its obviously not.Report
@Mark Thompson,
In other words, he has no integrity.Report
Hey Mark –
Not to sidetrack any of the Dish’s deserved thunder. But I thought it still need to be said: The part of your post about your thought process surrounding gay issues, your friends coming out, and the honest and open way you just talked about that process, and what it might have been like without the thinking Andrew forced (invited?) you to do –
That’s the most refreshing, honest and affirmative thing I’ve read in a long, long time. And, as a reader even though I’ve thought highly of you for a long while, my opinion of you just skyrocketed that much more.
Way cool, dude.Report
@RTod, Thanks for this, it means a lot.Report
To further this sidetrack, I sort of came at it from the opposite direction. I supported gay marriage relatively early, but I’ll be danged if most of the gay people I knew I just didn’t like for some reason or another. I didn’t know if this was because I subconsciously held anti-gay emotions despite my public support or because gays most likely to let it be known they’re gay are more likely to be the type of people I don’t like as much or because most gays are that way for one reason or another… but there it was.
A few years back I attended a non-legal gay marriage ceremony for an old college friend of my wife’s. It was a nice ceremony and the fact that there were men holding hands everywhere and all that didn’t bother me a wit. Due to circumstance (in an odd coincidence, an old high school chum was a groomsman) I spent most of the evening talking to straight people, but the lovely ceremony at least successfully reminded me “THIS is what I am supporting.”
The advent of facebook helped, too, because I discovered a couple of old high school friends were gay and my thought (with one of them) was simply “He must have a great personality, cause in the physical department you could probably do better” followed by “I hope my state allows you two to marry soon” (he’d expressed the desire to).
So ultimately, I came to the conclusion that it was probably the second scenario that was true… those gay people I knew and liked were less likely to make themselves known in the conservative part of the country where I was raised. The first scenario is also still possible, I suppose, since finding out I was really down with a gay guy after I find out their orientation doesn’t speak to my overall personal tolerance.
There was a case, I guess, where I became friends with an openly gay guy who had it rough. He was pretty socially isolated and I don’t think we would have been friends had it not been for a mutual acquaintance (one of the ones I didn’t actually like) requesting that I (a 6’3″, 255lb guy at the time) hang out with him so that he would not be such easy pickings for bullies. He was known to be gay and in the HS ROTC, a bad combination. I don’t know what ever happened to him.Report
I actually think Sullivan is capable of moderation – his recent wrestling with the assassination order and his views on deficits and fiscal policy being examples. Indeed, if you read his book on conservatism, it seems to predicated precisely on a philosophy of conservatism that in parctice if not in name amounts to essentially Burkean restraint. (He appeals to this value continually in all his writing.) It’s just that he also happens to be a man of passions and frequent immoderation, which in my view makes his gestural embrace of moderation as a value all the more valuable, however imperfectly or inconsistently he enacts it. In this I mainly see an extremely virtuous whole – self-knowledge combined with what he acknowledges will be imperfect bu nonetheless earnest efforts at self-restraint.
The one tendency that I do find to criticize is that when he does fail in his attempts at Burkean moderation, he frequently overcompensates in the opposite direction if he finds himself in error (another quality in his thought so ubiquitous and basic to his method that it goes far too much without mention). An example of this is the swing from Iraq War cheerleading to outright denunciations of American Empire in response to a president’s flailing attempts to deal with an unresolved hot war handed to him by his predecessor, and a military and military-intellectual complex so gung-ho and preposterously hung-up on its own competence (and also, understandably, uninterested in participating in a strategy of managed defeat).
So while it seems that Sullivan does have the tendency to think that Bukean balance justifies wild rhetorical swings to correct one’s course when gone astray, rather than maintaining moderation even after wandering into excess in a particular direction (I think this is a manifestation not of considered judgment, but, again, of Sullivan’s passion and commitment to justice, and it is certainly a failing), I do think that it’s inaccurate to say that he is incapable of, or certainly not at all inclined to, moderation.Report
there’s nothing out there today but a bunch of non-troversies and trivialities.
The Giants won the NLDS today. Heathen.Report
“More importantly, though, the same traits that can make Sullivan so frustrating to read at times are also the same traits that make him unfailingly interesting and intellectually stimulating. “
Really? I just don’t get this. I’ll read Sully sometimes, but I tend to feel like I need a shower afterward. What exactly, is supposed to be intellectually stimulating? Sullivan is probably the most banally predictable major pundit/blogger writing today.Report