Incentives Indeed
Yesterday Dan inadvertently found himself in my wheelhouse when he wrote this regarding the since debunked video showing Planned Parenthood employees going all Soylent Green on us:
People, always and everywhere, respond to incentives. Even if Planned Parenthood says otherwise, if Planned Parenthood makes more money off of late-term abortions via this secondary market, it is incentivized to encourage more abortions to occur later during the pregnancy. Inadvertently, then, with the encouragement and guidance of Planned Parenthood, mothers could be fostering and developing fetal cells solely for the purposes of research.
This dynamic should, at the very least, raise troubling moral questions.
As it turns out, the meat of Dan’s point (shown with the added bold-ing) is not only entirely correct, it is in fact demonstrated by the Planned Parenthood video brouhaha — just not in the way Dan intended. In fact, the lessons of incentives in the marketplace that can be gleaned from said video are the very reasons I had assumed the recording was doctored when I first read the breaking news about its release.
As we now know, the transcript of the unedited videos tell a significantly different story than does the edited version that was released. This should sound familiar, because James O’Keefe has already made a career out of doing the exact same thing. In fact, Planned Parenthood itself was a previous victim of O’Keefe’s “activist journalism.” To paraphrase Dan, the key revelation here is not about unethically edited videos so much as it is about incentives — and make no mistake, pretty much everyone was incentivized for this video to be made.
Say what you will about James O’Keefe, he probably makes more money doing what he does than you do doing what you do for a living. He likely has, for whatever this metric is worth, more Twitter followers than everyone you know combined. Forbes counts him as one of their 30 Under 30 stars. He used his experiences making fraudulently edited videos to write a NYT bestselling book about how and why he does the morally questionable things he does. (Some liberal critics say that the book was likely a bestseller because rightwing think tanks bought them all up. The degree to which this may or may not be correct, however, matters little to O’Keefe’s bank account.) It is assumed by many that people in power pick up the phone and call him when they are in trouble; whether or not this is actually true, the perception that it is clearly says something to young up-and-coming journalists. Hell, the guy received $120,000 from Breitbert News just so they could have the right of first refusal to any later projects he might have down the road. So of course the people who secretly taped and then edited the Planned Parenthood interview were absolutely incentivized to do so. Those incentives likely allowed them to care little that their morally dubious presentation would eventually be discovered. They weren’t even the first to learn O’Keefe’s lessons of the marketplace.
But here’s the thing. That giving in to incentives doesn’t stop with the perpetrators of the fraud.
For example, take this segment from Fox News’s The Kelly File last night, which was recorded after the video has already been proven to be edited in a fraudulent manner. That revelation didn’t stop Fox from using the video as the show’s ratings-drawing anchor, although Kelly did have to reach for the odd criticism of professionalism to create an ancillary scandal:
“She is guzzling down wine and stuffing her face full of salad while she talks about the end of a potential life … I’m saying there ought to be some humanity and respect for the dignity of a potential life.”
(Seriously, I wonder if Megan believes that pediatricians and oncologists spend their lunch hours weeping into salads when talking work stuff over lunch.)
The truth is that this video will be used for a long time by the right wing media (maybe even years). What’s more, it’s going to be used by conservative politicians as a way to leverage donations into their kitty. It will matter little to either the radio talk show hosts or those running for office that the tapes were doctored. They simply won’t be incentivized to discuss the story told by unedited version of the video, or for that matter to delve very far in discussions about the suspension of ethics required to purposefully obfuscate that story.
There’s still more incentivizing to look at, of course.
I’ve noted this before when talking about the state of journalism today, but the Carmen Segarra recordings received startlingly little attention from liberal political and news writers — which at first blush is a little surprising. As a reminder, Segarra is an ex-Federal Reserve employee who secretly recorded her superiors, both alone and during “negotiations” with Goldman Sachs representatives. If you are liberal and you haven’t come across this story before, either from This American Life or ProPublica, I cannot encourage you enough to do so now. The recordings are a cannon-sized smoking gun that screams for more and better government regulation over large corporations. The story also bakes in a fair amount of gravity, as it very much appears that Sachs and other similar corporations are already engaging in the very activities that caused the 2008 global economic meltdown. (Which was actually immensely profitable to those at Sachs and other companies who were behind it). The problem with the story, however, is that it’s somewhat complicated and requires time to fully grok, let alone find a way to turn that grok into something that can be chewed on by one’s readers. And even then, it’s a story about the freaking Federal Reserve — a topic which has all the built-in sex appeal of an amortization table.
In other words, the reason liberal political and news writers didn’t write anything about the Segarra recordings is not that it wasn’t important or impactful. (It was arguably the most important and impactful news story that broke the week that it did.) Rather, they did not write about the Segarra story because they were not incentivized to do so. The same is true for the myriad of rather urgent issues surrounding our country’s crumbling infrastructure. Because even though roads, bridges, and other infrastructure are oft acknowledged by liberal writers as the ultimate argument for government successfully working to solve common problems, they seemingly can’t be bothered to write about the actual infrastructure. And why should they, if the publications that buy their writings won’t pay for it? And why should those publications bother to spend money to buy it, if we can’t be bothered to read it?
The fake Planned Parenthood scandal, though? Everyone’s going to be writing and tweeting about that for days. If you awoke tomorrow morning from a ten year coma, you might well believe after a quick perusal of liberal websites that the most important news that had occurred on the entire planet this week was a news story about a fake news story. Certainly more important than the malfeasance recorded at the Federal Reserve, anyway.
To paraphrase Dan, people, always and everywhere, respond to incentives. Even in journalism, and especially in our era of new journalism.
To quote Dan more precisely:
This dynamic should, at the very least, raise troubling moral questions.
[Picture: Screenshot of NewsMax Website, featuring story on congressional leaders deciding to investigate Planned Parenthood video well after the video was shown to be misleadingly edited, coupled with an invitation be a subscriber to NewsMax and buttons to share the story with friends via social media.]
It should, but that boat has sailed. Prepare to see a lot more of this sort of thing in the future as all sides in the political arena began orienting themselves almost entirely inward and increase to the degree to which they refuse to acknowledge perspectives from outside the ideology.
The big trend in the online consumer sector is for everything to be curated; that is, for every piece of news and every recommendation to be delivered by a trusted source. The same thing is happening in politics.Report
There is little incentive to hear the other side.Report
Eh, there is an incentive – to know their arguments before they’re dropped third hand on you via Facebook or Thanksgiving.Report
I said little, not none.
For me, who loves to argue, that incentive is more than a little.
For my aunt, who refuses to engage outside the echo chamber…Report
No, but plenty of incentive to manipulate the other side.
Viva Chuck Norris!Report
I
believeno,hopeno, still wrongsee as ultimately inevitableno, let’s go back really really hope with doe-eyed idealism that this trend is a pendulum that is reaching the far point of its swing, thereafter eventually return to a point where, even though we Americans continue to disagree with one another, at least acknowledge one anothers’ good faith in disagreement.ReportI hope you don’t get caught in the headlightsReport
D’oh!Report
I heard about the Goldman recordings.
I can’t remember where from.
I think a lot of liberals just feel despair over anything happening to encourage more regulation.Report
That’s great news, for Hillary.Report
Well, we’d feel a lot less despair if the party hadn’t been more or less entirely bought out by the financial sector over the past 25 years. It make it hard to hope for reform when their real masters aren’t the voters, but Jaime Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein.Report
@zac
Hey, you are preaching to the choir man. But basically, there are still a lot of Wall Street Democrats and the polls want their money. Plus lots of people still believe that deregulation is a complete good.Report
“Hey, you are preaching to the choir man.”
Well, that’s how you get ’em to sing. 😉
“But basically, there are still a lot of Wall Street Democrats and the polls want their money.”
Which is why I think Lawrence Lessig is right when he says robust campaign finance reform has to be the left’s top priority. We can’t make real, permanent progress on any other issue until we fix the ability of the moneyed classes to buy our political system wholesale.
“Plus lots of people still believe that deregulation is a complete good.”
And they are wrong and need to beaten. Politically. Although the other kind probably wouldn’t be a bad idea either. 😉Report
Yeah I agree with Lessing though his campaign is sadly going nowhere. I’d love elections that are one hundred percent public financed but that could take a while. How long did it take the Democrats to get something with a large scale health insurance plan passed? Since the Truman administration by my reckoning.Report
Nobody ever said it would be easy. Of course, to my mind, to be truly successful you’d need to couple it with hard caps on wealth accumulation, but I suspect this is one of those areas where I’m a great deal more radical than either you or Lessig.Report
I’ve said this before…
Investigative journalism? Why do some much hard work when you can sit on you ass, wait for the press released, re write it, call a “source” for background, and get your story out in time to go home? Bonus since you don’t piss off advertisers and you still have “access” to people and events (for free!).
It’s lazy and irresponsible but it’s what we got now. I see this in my life daily. “Has x given you that info you needed to do y?” “No, I sent him an email”. They guy is less than 50 yards away and you’re too damn lazy to get off your ass, go up to his office, get in his face and get a response.Report
The incentives for this sort of gotcha journalism were there in the past. In the late 19th century, they called it yellow journalism. Most people were never really into deep and important investigative journalism. People read newspapers as a source of entertainment. What was different back than is that many publishers and after radio and television, broadcasters, did believe in providing accurate and deep investigative journalism as a public service. The smaller media markets also made local news more profitable.Report
@leeesq
I think you’re right. In particular media used to be less competitive and media companies could use their supernormal profits to fund public interest journalism. With the greater competitiveness of modern media, there’s not the same financial scope for that kind of journalism.Report
The problem is that there has become an easy market for what I’d call bias confirmation journalism. Everyone can see great examples of it on their Facebook feed at anytime. The OP dug deep for his left wing example of it but all you have to do is google ‘uva’ and ‘rolling stone’ to see the same dynamic on the left that Fox News and the O’Keefes of the world have set up on the right. The lesson is that we all need to become more sophisticated consumers of information, lest we start believing in fairy tales about abortion as big business and rape culture.Report
With Acorn, the Dems in Congress caved, and voted to defund; we didn’t get to see the real video until months later, to see what an absolute sham the whole thing was.
We know that someone will bring fourth a bill to defund Planned Parenthood; and I hope there’s enough spine to stand up straight this time.
The Goldman recordings are from This American Life; I wrote about it as a guest post here.Report
I agree with much of this post (TOD’S RIGHT!!!), but, if the problem of perverse incentives presents “troubling moral questions” at all, they are are different questions than the ones that interest Dan and most initial recipients of this fraudulently doctored video. (Tod’s wrong…)
Firemen have an “incentive” to produce fires. Professional soldiers need wars, cops need criminals, doctors need disease, climatologists need the Day After Tomorrow, and conservative activists need liberals to be evil. The perverse incentives even point to real and complex problems from time to time, but I don’t see much moral trouble here in any immediate sense. Most everyone thinks that performing acts of arson in order to increase fire department funding or save fireman jobs would be wrong morally and ethically. So, no trouble so far.
The unique problem that concerns Dan and and others is a different, more obviously moral question: They believe that the conception of children is a sacred matter, that it not only would be better but that it is morally (and soteriologically) necessary for us to treat the life of the unborn child as sacred, as the basis for any coherent and consistent concept of the sacredness of life at all. This matter is not one that can be sorted out abstractly and perfectly according to purely individualistic yet in theory universalizable abstractions, as attempted by OG Likko on his comment rescue thread, or solved by any particular policy as compared to any other, since every decision will seem to involve contradictions in the form “why does THIS matter so much, but not THAT?” If you do believe that the unborn child represents innocent life and all human potential in pure or as pure a form as we can know – symbolically that every baby is an image of the baby Jesus – then our treatment of it – as garbage or as tissue to be traded or experimented upon – must say very many supremely important and supremely troubling things about us. If you do not believe it says much about about us, because the “tissues” and the lives of which they were once a part do not matter or matter much – do not even need to be discussed, certainly do not need to be mourned – then that may also say something about us that is also important. To Dan, that we don’t seem to find ourselves even a little disturbed is itself disturbing.
I can certainly see that the system of perverse incentives raises or ought to raise troubling ethical questions for journalists and politicians, but, as I noted, there doesn’t seem to be an authentically morally troubling question raised by it directly. Everyone thinks it’s bad, though we differ over who is primarily at fault and who is mainly resorting to self-defense. Is there a “moral” question raised indirectly by the fraudulent and empty nature of our political culture? Regardless of where you stand on the underlying question relating to abortion or choice, could the thing that disturbs Dan and others most fundamentally be connected? If so, then these repellent anti-abortionists would themselves be the proof of the moral decline they fear, perhaps in multiple ways.Report
Man those tiny letters were so tiny I couldn’t quite make them out! I’ll just assume they said “Tod’s right.”
As to the rest, well, yes… and no.
I’ll add more to that unsatisfying answer tomorrow. but for now I be very sleepy and the bed she is singing to me…Report
I think this is partially what Lee has called the illiberal problem and liberal democracy. Democracy is a very fragile thing that operates on trust. Lots of trust.
I get that there are going to be lots of issues that are very important and produce substantial disagreement. But the problem with this stuff is that it seems like a slippery slope to more authoritarian and less democratic techniques. Why can’t O’Keffe and others win on rhetoric? Why do they need to go to heavily edited sting operations?Report
Why heavily edited sting operations indeed. And why the bad reporting at Rolling Stone or, well we could both probably name thousands of issues like this.
Because partisans gonna partisan.Report
@saul-degraw
Because it’s easier to win an argument when you’re unconstrained by the truth. To anyone whose primary goal is winning arguments, the truth will eventually become an intolerable burden.Report
That’s not right: It’s not an “argument” that is being won or lost, it is a power struggle that is being won or lost. It’s easier win a battle when you’re unconstrained by rules of war. You just make it much more likely that your enemy will employ the same tactics against you, or treat you very poorly if you happen to lose the war. Victory in the argument, if it’s an authentic victory, is independent of who happens to win the power struggle.Report
People like O’Keffe can not win on rhetoric because they believe the stakes are too high to win honestly and lucre.Report
This is one of the really interesting things to me. Which is to say that both sides seem relatively confident that the full video vindicates them and exposes the other side. Not just the charlatans and the dupes on the right, but… pretty much universally outside of the staunch libertarians (stalwarts and heretics, pro-lifers and pro-choicers) The video demonstrates that the initial claims are fundamentally true or sufficiently true to be disturbing. Whereas here it has been pretty objectively debunked to the point that people who can’t concede that… bad, in one form or another.Report
The video demonstrates that the initial claims are fundamentally true or sufficiently true to be disturbing.
The video, as originally presented (and presented here,) was a claim that Planned Parenthood is selling baby-body parts for profit. That’s been fully debunked.
Are fetal tissues from abortions used for medical research Yes. Are the sold? Not for a profit, but for the cost of handling that tissue properly so that is is useful for research. One of the real troublesome things to people outside is the that a woman’s decision to donate the tissue for research means the provider will considers how the abortion will be performed based on the researcher needs. The optics and ethics of this, on the surface, discomfort.
But we need to ask some other questions, too. Is that research important? Obviously, Parkinsons, spinal-cord injuries, heart disease are all subjects of research; more importantly (in the long term, not the short,) is understanding the mechanisms that activate fetal tissue to specialize; sci-fi zic sees that this is where we’ll get our ‘star trek’ medicine; learning how to tell our own cells to turn on and repair and replace.
And when we’re discussing rights, the anti-abortion arguments about the rights of the fetus totally gloss the rights of the mother, and the rights of the mother are constitutionally protected. Were those rights better protected, there would be far fewer later-term abortions, first of all. the barriers of poverty and access and social condemnation are wait periods and unnecessary medical procedures (and their cost) are significant, and cause much delay. In fact, there are fewer and fewer later-term abortions, and for the third trimester, they’re virtually all due to medical necessity.
So how do you square it? First, I’d say that if the research is valuable, then maybe those cells, when used in research, are a way to honor that life; to give it a sacred path in participating in the greater good of humanity. And the better we are at eliminating unwanted pregnancy, the fewer abortions we have, the more precious those few are for scientific research that will benefit all of us.
I don’t like abortion; nobody likes it. But I still hold women’s right to their body first; and say that as adults, that right is linked with that responsibility; an unwanted pregnancy that ends in abortion is tragic, like donating organs of a dead child so that another child might live is a profound way to honor the child, perhaps this research is a way to honor a potential child.
We are not going to eliminate abortion ever; too many pregnancies are complicated, birth control fails, rape happens. But we can minimize it, and we can recognize that when it does happen, donating the cells to research might help save other lives, and is a way to honor that potential life.
But holding this discussion without the moral imperatives of the woman firmly in view — something that Dan never acknowledges might even exist — means he’s willing only to hold one side of the talk. His moral grounding, he demands, gets reckoned with respectfully; but his silence to me and my demand for equal respect (even if just in conversation,) is met with emotional execution. I don’t exist except as an abstract in his mind, I’m not worthy of even a response. That is bad form, particularly given that his original point — incentives to delay an abortion — is absolute nonsense.Report
For personal reasons, I’m not going to get into the weeds of the argument, especially the ethics of it. I’ll just state that the notion that their making money on it has been thoroughly debunked by the full release remains contested on account of “a little better than breaking even”, some StemExpress literature, and believing that PP is not acting honesty.Report
As I said up above, PP is not charging researchers for donations & tacking on a profit margin. Researchers offer a fixed amount for a donation, and if PP can keep their costs for acquiring and providing the donation below the fixed amount, they’ll be doing “a little better than breaking even”.
These are two different things.Report
They are distinct things, and in some contexts different things. Here, though, I am not sure they would be different things as it pertains to the initial charge.
I’m not going to go to the mat over this. This is really the last thing I want to be talking about at the moment. It’s just that outside of here it has not been so thoroughly settled as it has been here, and I don’t think that’s precisely because of what the people here think it is because.
I’ll (try to) leave it at that.Report
Well sure, it’s contested. But that’s not a particularly remarkable statement. “Apollo 11 landed on the moon in 1969” is contested, “President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by a lone gunman” is contested, “Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11” is contested … need I continue? Nearly every proposition beyond “my mind exists” is contested by someone. That the allegations are uncritically accepted as factual by folks who are already inclined to view Planned Parenthood and at least some of the work they do as immoral is particularly unremarkable. It’s also completely uninformative to the question of the validity of the claims. The real question is what are the strength of the arguments and evidence.
The statement “a little better than breaking even,” viewed in context, including the context of scarcity of funding, says little more than “we can’t afford to lose money” and “exact costs are difficult to assess” and “therefore, we maybe have to bias our charges toward the upper end of the estimate.”
Is that a charitable interpretation? Sure, because the statement is maybe a little ambiguous, but only if you strip it entirely of context. Don’t you prefer people to interpret things you say and write in context and with the charity of the benefit of the doubt?Report
@road-scholar Well-stated and I agree except for that “my mind exists” part – highly contestable.Report
Eliminative Materialists Unite!
Or more precisely: Individual organisms for which brain activity consistent with a rejection of the existence of so-called “mental states” is evident in both the behavior of the organism and, with sufficiently advanced imaging technology and neuroscientific modeling, in brain scans, have well coordinated neural activity!Report
(Minds may not exist, but existence does mind.)Report
The Real is the Easily Verbalizable.Report
Maybe easily for you. I think that’s one way of verbalizing one real, but some of my friends would insist that the real, or the real among reals really real, would be or must always be presumed to be that which escapes reduction to words.Report
I’m pretty sure this thread is merely a prelude to an Arby’s run.Report
I was going to say that The Real is Whereof One Cannot Speak, but was thereby compelled to silence.Report
Well, unlike Apollo 11, it is contested by people whose opinions I respect. Which is what makes the characterization of those who see the video differently around here (whose opinions I also respect) interesting.
I suppose “I don’t/can’t respect (the opinions and/or sincerity thereof) people who see this video differently than I do” is a way for it to be settled, though.Report
The second video that has been brought forth shows a negotiation over payments. Presumably, like most organizations, PP has an idea what its costs are, and could just say “here’s the amount we need to cover our costs.” Negotiating a price makes it sound like they’re trying to get as high a price above cost as they can, which is, by definition, profit-seeking.
I don’t think that’s a slam-dunk interpretation, but I do think those who are so certain PP is doing no wrong don’t have a slam-dunk interpretation, either. Neither they nor their opponents are willing to think slow, hard, and honestly about this issue.Report
Scandalous!Report
(The price she asks in the second video is $100). From here:
Report
Honestly? I’d rather we do something about the rampant child slavery and prostitution going on in America, rather than worry about children who can’t feel pain (or who, if they do feel pain, will do so only for a very brief amount of time).
At least that’s where I’d point those who insist on seeing things in black and white — to a problem that actually has villains.Report
There are several issues, and associated assumptions, involved at once. One issue would be whether the video offers any evidence at all for “PP is doing something wrong.” That issue is really a set of issues that break down into different notional wrongs, the most crucial of which opponents already assume to be true, and whose factual basis – that PP is involved in providing abortions, and that those involved accept payment for their work – would be borne out by any examination that even touches on the truth.
Another set of issues revolves around how whatever case is made. I’m not sure how anyone who examines what was presented in the video versus the full video can reasonably deny that the latter was edited down deceptively to strengthen the case against PP: to make ambiguous or qualified statements pointing to lesser charges at worst instead look like certain, unqualified statements pointing to flagrant wrongdoing, or to make the PP executive look like a completely depraved individual rather than someone cognizant of moral and legal issues.
That the evidence has been distorted doesn’t mean that PP is innocent of all charges, or that the video doesn’t contain actual evidence conceivably relevant to some charges, but it does mean that this case is tainted, and that encouraging the volunteer prosecutors is to encourage bad practices. For “political” people, who seek victory rather than truth, who don’t care who is defamed or destroyed in the process, and who don’t care about preserving the bases for a civilized sorting out of differences in a diverse society, the second set of issues are secondary, a distraction, or the kind of thing that only wimps and idiots unsuited to fighting and winning the real struggle worry about.
We have had people on this site arguing from the “other side,” but on other issues, proudly proclaiming that point of view, that what matters is that the designated evil ones are defeated, not that we employ honorable or decent tactics in defeating them. I put the “other side” in quotes because on this matter the sides do not conform to our current configuration of “left” vs “right” coalitions. It’s not “both sides do it,” it’s a different two sides that divide both coalitions, that, as Saul and Lee note, fall into “liberal” and “illiberal”: Many on both sides “do it,” belong to the illiberal side of the liberal vs illiberal divide. The latter are people who tend to view what they’re doing as “war” or “combat” and who treat their political agenda as a holy crusade whether or not they use those terms.Report