Walking Dead Discussion Thread: S3 E16, “Welcome to the Tombs”
Spoiler Alert: Do not read this post or the comment section if you have not seen the show. Also, for those who have read the comics, please do not discuss plot elements not revealed on the show.
Season finales are always a mix of emotions for me. On one hand I am excited because (usually) the season has been building momentum and this will be a major moment in the story. On the other hand I am sad because I am about to endure a long break without one of my favorite shows (in the case of TWD this will be about 6 1/2 months). But there’s also a bit of relief because as finales happen it frees up time for me to pursue other hobbies or other TV shows.
My initial assessment is that the finale managed to surprise me in a lot of ways. One of my personal predictions came true which is that the Governor would survive the finale but it wasn’t in the way I thought he would. As for the death of Andrea? I never saw that one coming. This is partially due to comic book spoilers I have read but also because I thought her character had really been elevated to a key element this season and her redemption seemed to signal a return to the prison group. Regarding her death though…WTF? Keep in mind that Andrea has killed a LOT of walkers in three seasons and several times it was a very narrow escape. Just two weeks ago we saw her stop a walker with her knee while dealt with another that had her pinned to a tree. She survived ninja zombies while sneaking through the warehouse on the same episode. So to finally suffer a bite from one Milton-walker with her hands free and a pair of pliers to use for a weapon? It seems almost implausible.
The attack on the prison started off strong but it was amazing how quickly they folded when faced with a counter-attack. The Governor’s frustration in how they retreated so fast manifested itself in a final orgy of violence and anther hard-to-swallow point was his two henchmen allowing him to survive it. I’m very curious about how he will be involved with Season 4. Will he recruit new people or wage a three-man guerilla war? Will he return to Woodbury, now surely overrun with walkers, or stay on the road?
As for Carl’s ‘gunning down’ of the attacker from Woodbury, I’m on his side. His explanation of why he did it to Rick was even more convincing. He’s become so cold though that if they don’t balance it out, it seems like he will become the new Shane next season. Maybe there was a girl his age on the bus from Woodbury and she will have a softening effect on him. If not, he may become a liability down the road.
The return of Rick, Michionne and Darryl with the Woodbury residents was interesting even if it seems like it will set up problems down the road. How do they keep these people fed? The show glosses over a lot of every day logistics like food and water (Rick looked freshly-showered within hours of his rampage after Lori died). With so many people though and the main prison yard now even more damaged, it seems like they may need a new home that can support this group.
All-in-all this season didn’t disappoint. The ‘soft’ conclusion was actually welcome in my house because it was so unexpected. It also gives us a breather over the summer and also perhaps creates more room for speculation. Anxious to hear everyone’s thoughts. Thanks for hanging with these posts all season.
I’m gonna be a bad man here and say it. I am happy Andrea was bitten and taken out. almost all of the problems this season can be traced back to her silence/gullibility/inaction. having her gone means one less “team mate” who does not share information and makes terrible decisions.
and come on after all the bad decisions she made dying was more or less the only way her arc could end well. I could not see rick ever giving her full trust back.Report
At least she died as she lived, pointlessly failing at something.Report
Adding a spoiler Alert Tag to flood through the gifts of gab section so you don’t actually give away the spoilers in the first sentence of your post. Just saying it’s a good idea and what not…
Andrea dying was an utter shock to me, much for the same reasons as yours. I was comic book spoiled for instance so that gave her a bit of character armor; kudos to the writers for rattling all us comic fans in our knowing sense of the future.
That said her death was, agreed, somewhat implausible. A few episodes back Glen killed a walker while tied to a chair. Andrea had three of her four limbs free, was facing zombie Milton dead on and had a pair of pliers. All she’d have needed to do was hang onto the chair and kick him back and he’d have gone ass over teakettle giving her time to remove the last cuff. Unless freshly turned walkers are especially nimble and energetic (an implication that seems to be the premise of the upcoming World War Z movie) I simply don’t see her suffering a bite. Also, I know that the writers are doing it for dramatic effect but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD(ESS) GIRL, DO NOT STOP TRYING TO GET FREE TO CHAT WITH DYING MILTON! HAVE YOU HEARD OF MULTITASKING???
The attack on the prison made some sense. Per the Governor Mearle gunned down eight people in his kamikaze attack. By and large those dead people were Woodbury’s hard bitten elite. They’d have been the backbone and expert knowledge the prison assault and with their absence the newbies that comprised the Woodbury militia did exactly what a sensible civilian would do when faced with a terrifying zombie infested prison with people shooting at you from it: they ran away and asked “why are we trying to go into that hole??”
I agree that the Governor surviving his tantrum astonished me. His two surviving lackeys just watched him transform their situation from a sweet gig in the world’s last community with running water into three bums on the run in a world gone mad. Also I find it hard to believe that these guys who would probably have been considered the heroes of Woodbury didn’t have any social connection to the civilians. I’d have shot his ass.
Leaving the Governor alive was a head scratcher until I thought about the comics more and who the next big bad is. Rot13’d for spoilers:
Vs lbh guvax nobhg jub gur arkg ivyynva vf, ur’f rffragvnyyl n cflpub jvgu n ovt nezl bs guhtf naq cvengrf jub rkgbeg sebz fheivibef. Xvyyvat gur Tbireabe whfg gb ercynpr uvz jvgu n fvzvyne ivyynva qbrfa’g znxr frafr sbe GI. Znlor gur Tbireabe vf tbvat gb eha bss naq gura fubj hc ntnva va n frnfba be gjb va gur arj ovt onq ebyy.
I’m agnostic on Carl so far. Yeah he shot the kid in cold blood. But if I tell you to drop your gun and instead of dropping your gun you start sidling to me… getting your butt shot is a serious possibility. Certainly his smack down of both his previous self and of Rick had a pleasant bite to it.
I earnestly hope that the absence of Lori at the end means the end of the plot arch where Rick periodically sits and bibbles his lips when things get tense. I understand that they’re a family and tight knit but you don’t put cray-cray in charge of the group. Darrel or even Hershel could fill that role if Rick remained koo-koo for coco puffs.
North’s award for unexpected survivor, by the way, goes to Hershel. Congrats ol’ man, I was certain either you or Beth or both of you would die in this episode (neither of you survived the prison fight in the comic). I’m pretty glad of it too because I’ve got a soft spot for Hershel and Beth has been pretty solidly non-annoying as a character.
Final note: They were stabbing walkers through the fence! Carol and Beth were! That’s what I’m talkin’ about, apparently it’s not a trick you can use when you’re level 1.Report
I agree with your rot13ed prediction.
I actually expected Rick’s group to move into Woodbury, not to move Woodbury survivors into the prison. It seemed to make more since logistically and also a little more consistent with the next big arc in the comic.
With Carl, I was expecting the guy to grab his arm and use him as a hostage at any moment. When a guy has a gun pointed at you, and your intent is to surrender, it is best to follow their instructions. I also see this as having a parallel to the character development of Carl in the comic: Va gur pbzvp, gurer jrer n pbhcyr bs lbhat oebguref (gjvaf?) geniryvat Evpx’f tebhc. Bar bs gurz xvyyrq gur bgure, whfg sbe gur urpx bs vg. Gur tebhc qrongrq jung fubhyq or qbar. Pney farnxrq njnl ng avtug naq xvyyrq gur xvq, orpnhfr gur bgure xvq unq orpbzr n zbafgre. Carl has learned to make hard choices, because sometimes the grownups do not.
I also appreciate how much the series diverges from the comic regarding who lives and dies. It helps to keep up tension when anyone can die, even if they survived in the comic.Report
Yeah I thought Woodbury would be a better base but on the other hand Woodbury is not remotely as defensible as the prison and presumably the Gov and his lackies know it better than Rick and his crew so it’s understandable they’d be leery of moving in there.Report
When Herschel tells you to put the gun on the ground, you put the gun on the ground. If you truly intend to surrender, don’t start closing the gap toward your smaller opponent, still holding your weapon.
Carl was right, and Herschel and Rick are both overreacting (imho). Also, Carl is well on his way to becoming John Connor.Report
I agree that it was supposed to be ambiguous enough that Carl made the right call (or at least, a justifiable call) – that kid kept edging closer and closer, and swinging the barrel toward Carl. He was told to put the gun down, he should have put it down. Now, maybe that kid was just scared and made a mistake, but it is what it is.
What I DON’T understand is why Herschel is overreacting that way. He was there, he saw how it went down. It would have made the whole thing more believable to me if Rick (who wasn’t there) questioned the necessity of killing, and Herschel was uncertain about whether it needed to be done or not, and Herschel not being able to give Rick a clear-cut answer fueled Rick’s doubts.
But Herschel was dead certain that Carl made the wrong call, and that doesn’t make sense to me.Report
Herschel should of at least repeated himself. “I said put it down!”Report
I found myself having sympathy for Andrea during the course of this season. As viewers, we had the privilege of getting to see both sides of the story, while Andrea could only knew what she experienced and what she was told by the Governor and his henchies and through brief interactions with the prison group. Woodbury was an ideal to her, something worth trying to save though it meant risking both Woodbury and the prison group in the process. Her idealism was compromised by her brief romance with Phillip, and that flawed idealism along with her inability to choose a side led to her death.
Andrea died tragically not quite a hero, not quite a villain.Report
She died a normal person who made some mistakes though she tried to do her best.
With the exception of the Governor, there are not any real heroes or villains in this show. They are just a bunch of people trying to survive, and they all screw up a lot.Report
I don’t hate Andrea, she was just a nice ordinary person trying to deal with a nightmarish mess.Report
Andrea died tragically not quite a hero, not quite a villain.
I’m glad you think so. For the show’s writers sake – they could use the encouragement. I thought she was one of the most poorly executed characters evah! There was so much potential there, and a stunning mix of terrible dialogue and horrible acting made her unbearable to me. My wife too. Once the Gov stabbed Milton we both said excitedly “Maybe she’ll get bitten!”Report
Adding a spoiler Alert Tag to flood through the gifts of gab section so you don’t actually give away the spoilers in the first sentence of your post. Just saying it’s a good idea and what not…
Good idea.
On Carl: what was it, two episodes ago he was trying to convince Rick to give up the reigns because it was making him crack, and now he’s a hardass? To be clear, I am generally of the mind that at this point your ability to give chances is minimal. I know one thing for certain, if I tell you to put your gun on the ground and the gun is not immediately on the ground, you’re getting plugged. But they had better be very careful about what they do with Carl in the next 5 episodes or I’ll wind up waiting for him to get eaten, just to get him out of the story arc.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD(ESS) GIRL, DO NOT STOP TRYING TO GET FREE TO CHAT WITH DYING MILTON! HAVE YOU HEARD OF MULTITASKING???
This annoyed the hell out of me. I can see it from someone who’s ten days into the zombie apocalypse and suffering from PTSD and just goes into inaction shock, but for the love of Pete, how do you survive almost a year in without learning to maintain your focus on the important task, here?
But Herschel was dead certain that Carl made the wrong call, and that doesn’t make sense to me.
No, the tension in the upcoming episodes requires that Rick think that Carl made the wrong call, so he can have a “pull my son back from the abyss” storyline. I’m starting to actively want to punch the writers, have I mentioned?
The Governor going bananas also didn’t quite jibe, but Mike’s point here: “another hard-to-swallow point was his two henchmen allowing him to survive it.”… yeah, that. There is no freakin’ way Caesar – who’s already been demonstrated to be something of a competent, cold-blooded calculating killer – is not going to put one in the back of the Governor’s head, there. The whole time you have to be thinking, “If this is where he goes when he goes off the rails, sooner or later I’m going to be in front of the business end of that Aug.”
Side note: why do the baddest bad guys always get the bullpup gun?
I will say this, though. The first 10 minutes of the show was the best 10 minutes the show has had, ever, and that beats out Morgan’s soliloquy earlier this season.Report
No, the tension in the upcoming episodes requires that Rick think that Carl made the wrong call, so he can have a “pull my son back from the abyss” storyline. I’m starting to actively want to punch the writers, have I mentioned?
That’s my point. You can still get that storyline, without Herschel acting in an unbelievably idiotic fashion. Herschel can express reservations or ambiguity, which Rick mistakenly interprets as Carl having made the wrong call.
IOW, yeah, the writers ain’t so hot.
What was even more ridiculous was Michonne, who trusts NOBODY, bonding with Rick over effectively selling her out. Sure, Rick SAYS he changed his mind, but how does she know that’s so? And even if she believes him, he changed his mind after making the idiotic decision to tell Merle to do the deed.
At best, even she can trust his intentions, she can’t trust his judgement.
IOW, I just cannot believe that Michonne of all people, would say, “That’s cool, I get it.” quite so easily.Report
I do think Merle told her the previous episode that Rick wouldn’t go through with it.. she believed him and then Ricks actions validated that belief. Essentially the first she found out about her being turned over it was Merle who was doing it and essentially saying he was doing it on his own. I can understand her not beeing enormously raw about that.
And yes, the writers are pretty lousy on the show. Repeatedly they make people behave entirely irrationally and events to flow incorrectly simply to set up the dramatic scene. Remember the first time they got into the tombs? They were a crack squad of killers in the yard, they go underground and begin running around like insane sorority sisters, then Herschel gets bit and they amputate his leg and boom, effective kill squad their way back to the cell block.Report
I did think Michonne accepted things with Rick too quickly, given her reservations about anyone and everyone in the past.
I do not usually have too much of a problem with people acting irrationally. People do. People make stupid mistakes. Acting inconsistently? That can be a problem.Report
TWD is notorious for inconsistency in service of the plot.Report