Looking Backwards The Sequel: Backwardser
In the aftermath of Aurora, The Dark Knight, and Aurora in light of The Dark Knight, I’ve been thinking about our relationship to our religion, our God(s), and the extent to which superheroes have become our surrogate gods that allow us to talk about Morality The Way We Think It Ought To Be (basically, assuming that the best of all possible fallen worlds probably works differently than this one does).
Holbo’s conclusion is that “Superhero stories should only ever be about the fact that superhero stories make no sense – if they have to be about something. The Avengers wasn’t really about anything, for example. That was an appropriate message for a film like that.”
That doesn’t feel right to me, though. Superhero stories strike me as being a sub-category of a modern religion. These stories are stories about modern gods… it’s what allows us to meaningfully talk about whether Batman should kill The Joker or whether Superman really is Clark Kent or whether he really is Kal-El. We project upon our small gods the reality we wish to see play out in the real world. (That’s as good as this essay is going to get, sadly, the rest of this is a handful of musings on superheroes, religion, culture, and whatnot that may or may not actually go anywhere. As such, if you feel like just making this an open thread, go ahead.)
One of the things I thought about with the Aurora shootings from the guy who was pretending to be The Joker was, of course, the “What Would Batman Have Done?” (that’s the Catholic Batman phrasing, as I understand it). The various scenarios ended up this way or that but the one I finally settled on was Batman swooping down and landing in such a way that he plants his knee in the guy’s kidney, maybe punching him once or twice before tying him up for the police. From there, I started wondering about what the various responses of us would be to this scenario. We’d have a handful of people who think that The Batman is great. A handful of people who question whether Batman even exists, a handful who point out that there was a guy in a theater who gets his kidney ruptured and suddenly everybody’s cheering and what kind of society is *THAT*? (“What about the smoke bombs and the fact that he had a gun?” “I thought you people supported concealed carry!”… that’s assuming this happened before a shot was fired, if shots were fired we could argue about whether Batman should have gotten there before people started dying… and whether the cops would have left a gunman alone vs. whether they would have gone in before six minutes had passed had they known Batman was in there).
I wonder what cops would think about Batman. Would they see him as one of the good guys who helps prevent crime, giftwraps criminals, and makes their (really tough) job a little bit easier? Would they see him as part of the problem but worse than that because he undercuts Police Authority by being effective in ways that they cannot be? Is it one of those things where Supervillains would change the calculus? (If we want to imagine a Batman who is effective enough for jazz… what could cops do against a Scarecrow, say, who was effective enough for jazz? Wait for SWAT? What do we do after SWAT goes in the building and lose radio contact?)
In thinking about thinking about what Batman would have done, I started thinking about the Ancients and their Titans, Gods, Demigods, and Heroes… and started thinking about how we think about the Ancients. This led me, immediately, to thinking about how the folks who will someday call us “the Ancients” will talk about us. To what extent will they argue about how much we believe in the Batman? Will the scales go from “They believe in the Batman the way that people believed in Santa at the end of Miracle on 34th Street” to holding up a PVC model of Batman swinging through Gotham and asking “why in the hell would they make idols of someone they didn’t believe in?”
I discussed these half-baked thoughts with Human Hireling and he pointed out that his wife asked the question: Imagine finding a couple of snippets of the Batman television series, a large exerpt from the Batman movies, and several different pages from various Batman scrolls. What would this tell you about what the Ancients thought about The Batman? This led me to all kinds of thoughts about which snippets would tell us what (and, of course, the degrees of wrongness the conclusions might take). There were several Catwomen. There were several Jokers… were there several Batmen? Is Batman an amalgam of a team of vigilantes who fought amalgams of criminal gangs? Isn’t it so much better to be living in the future instead of like those backwards Batman-believers?
The thing is… as ubiquitous as Batman is at pop culture, especially at this point in time, his influence and following still pales in comparison to most major religions. Sure, many of have seen the movie. But how many of us have a Batman comic book in our homes? Certainly fewer than have a Bible and maybe even fewer than those who have a Koran or Torah. The movies have made millions, maybe even billions, but was is the combined value of the various religious temples we’ve erected and the lands they sit on? And while a few folks might be obsessive to the point that they truly worship Batman or Superman or whatever other super hero suits them, the number of folks who take to their knee and pray to God or Allah or YHWH every night dwarfs that several times over. If anything, the future us will view the ancient us’s Batman as a cult that never got out of the cave. Or basement.Report
Compare to Hercules. Or Mithras.Report
I don’t know the story of Mithras and MAY be confusing Hercules with others but…
Weren’t there temples, monuments, and/or statues built to Hercules?
Weren’t there some folks (and not just young children) who believed Hercules was real?
Don’t we tend to view Hercules more as literature than religion?
If I’m right there, that seems to change the comparison a bit. If I’m wrong, well, I’ve been wrong before… 🙂Report
When it comes to Hercules being real, I’m pretty sure that King Arthur was real… but that doesn’t mean that Sir Gawain cut off the Green Knight’s head (which then bounced around for a while before giving a monologue).
When it comes to literature/religion, Hercules was the son of Zeus and the grandson of Pericles (also the son of Zeus). I think that there’s enough bleed-in that we can shrug it off as “culture-in-general”.Report
Also, seriously, what the F was up with the fairy tale ending? I almost vomited.Report
The Batman is an extremely odd vigilante and one who is more effective than real life vigilantes. But he is still a vigilante and cops are usually pretty touchy about vigilantes. Aside from the violation of the police’s monopoly on the use of force, it could be really tough to actually put the bad guys away after the Batman’s become involved.
I can put myself in the shoes of a prosecutor who gets a “Batman” file. The perp is still alive (Batman doesn’t kill his enemies) and has been, say, found by the cops tied up to a street light near the scene of his crime with a bat logo shaped bruise on his cheek. Hmm, I wonder how that got there. Well, one thing I don’t have to worry about is the civil rights violations inherent in the surely-brutal apprehension and restraint of the perp — the Batman is not a police actor and from a legal point of view, he is both an informant (which we like) and a vigilante (which we don’t like).
But how will I gather admissible evidence that he’s actually committed a crime? I can’t subpoena the Batman as a witness, and even if I could, he won’t show up in court. So pretty much anything he told Captain Gordon or the street cops is hearsay. It might get me by a probable cause motion because the Batman is an informant as well as a vigilante.
What I have to hope is that the Batman is known to the public to be an unerring detector of criminal activity, so the jury trusts that the Batamn wouldn’t beat up, and tie up, some random guy by mistake and thinks, despite what will surely be the judge’s instruction to the contrary, that the fact that the Batman apprehended a guy is, itself, evidence of guilt. That wouldn’t work if it were a cop making the arrest. And I’m still going to need corroborating evidence to support an appeal, because even if the jury really convicts based on the Batman’s involvement, on appeal I need to point to other evidence that could have reasonably supported the conviction.
The Batman can get the bad guys and serve them up to the cops. But he can’t make the convictions stick because he’s operating outside the system. So as a G.C.D.A., I’m not looking forward to my next Bat-file.Report
Illustrated version of your point (grabbed the reference from a commenter in that Holbo thread).Report
I suppose having a rogues gallery locked in a cardboard prison helps with that. You only have to prove guilt once, not each time Batman catches them after their many escapes.Report
While getting stuff ready for the vet coming over tomorrow, I thought about this.
“Okay. We found you in an alley with the sign ‘midtown serial rapist’ hanging around your neck. We have reason to believe that you are, in fact, the Midtown Predator the papers have been talking about. Sign here and here and we can plea you down to 18 years in Blackgate.”
“You ain’t got nothin’ on me! You got a note from the Batman and that’s it!”
“Perhaps you’re right. Officer O’Malley, please take our customer here down to the holding cells and finish up his paperwork and then let him go. We can’t hold him past 11:59 PM, according to the State Supreme Court so we should probably let him go a little bit before then.”
“Let me go?”
“Yep, through the front door.”
“Let me see that pen.”Report
Well yes, Batmans magical power is that he’s never wrong about identifying criminals. Then again Gothams magical power is that the crime is so bad that the criminals pretty much are unmistakably criminaling everywhere.
Ever played City of Heroes? I watched over the husbands shoulder. His newly minted hero steps into the streets of some city or another, thens left and I get a panoramic view of a street stretching off with a thousand little grannies franticly trying to hang onto their purses as a thousand two bit hoods tug-tugged them away.Report
You could call this the “Batman effect”, which would run counter to the “CSI effect”, where jurors with unrealistic expectations about the forensics capabilities of law enforcement are dissapointed with the real life evidence, conclude the prosecution “doesn’t have the goods”, and acquit based on (in their minds) reasonable doubt.Report
You know….
It’d be fun to set up you and Sarah over at the “Rants of a Public Defender” to do a mock trial of someone brought in by the Batman. Think she’d be game to play?Report
The Hindu Gods are in many ways like superheroes. Some Asura somewhere or another is terrorising the people. In comes Krishna or Someone else to kick demon butt and save the day. And They have even made into comic books. My childhood comic book diet was more Amar Chitra Katha and less DC or Marvel. The only thing I am wondering is why someone hasn’t made the stories ino a shounen anime. The stories are very amenable to standard shounen tropes and techniques
But more importantly, in many ways Thomas Carlyle’s thesis that the Gods of all cultures have always been a kind of hero to us rings true.Report
That’s awesome… but are they writing new stories? Are all of the Amar Chitra Katha stories hundreds (thousands) of years old or is there a team of Brahmin in a darkened room somewhere devoted to coming up with new legends?Report
The analogy I was going to make is the Greek myths. When Sophocles needed to bang out a new play, he didn’t invent new characters, he re-imagined the story of Oedipus or Hercules or the Trojan War.
Murali, have you ever read Roger Zelazny’s Lord of Light? It’s a science fiction take on the Hindu gods, and probably the best thing a very fine author ever wrote.Report
Somewhat off topic, did anyone see the Watchmen film? Unsympathetic as I am to superhero stories and “graphic novels”, I have to admit the book knocked my socks off.Report
The Watchmen film is, uncharitably, a hot mess. Charitably, it’s a noble failure.
It’s a Zack Snyder film… which tells you that there’s a lot of really, really awesome 1-2 second sections of the film. Sadly, those 1-2 second sections don’t really have a whole lot to do with each other.
Terry Gilliam was asked to direct it at one point and he said something to the effect of “I couldn’t possibly do this in fewer than five hours” and suggested a miniseries.
That’s the version I watch in my head.Report
I did not read the graphic novel, so for me the movie was a spot on dark side of being a super hero, without getting a lot into the HOW they became super heroes. They had powers, sure, but they weren’t over the top powers and you didn’t get lengthy backstories and the like.Report
Unless there were significant changes from the book, the only one with true super powers was Doctor Manhattan, who had pretty much every power you can imagine; the rest had varying levels of gadgets, smarts, training, and willReport
It’s a Zack Snyder film… which tells you that there’s a lot of really, really awesome 1-2 second sections of the film.
That must be why I thought The 300 was complete crap — I blinked at the wrong times.Report
Watch the trailer again. It’s an *AWESOME* trailer.
It cheated, though… the best lines are lines lifted directly from the original (“then we will fight in the shade” “come and take them”) and the best 1-2 second scenes are lifted straight from the comic book (the scene where we see Spartans driving the invaders off of the cliff, the masks, the messenger on the horse rearing while holding the skulls of defeated kings…).
And, of course, THIS IS SPARTA!!!!
The trailer promised a much better movie than it delivered. Snyder does that a lot, though.Report