The Disunited Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
The electoral system in the United Kingdom is democratically inefficient.
Opponents of Prime Minister David Cameron have taken to the streets as a result of Cameron’s surprise victory in Thursday’s UK elections, and unfriending has commenced, and a monument defiled. A lot of objections center around Cameron’s austerity measures. When pointed out that Cameron just won a majority, his critics return by pointing out that he only won 37% of the vote.
That complaint mirrors some comments I recently made with regard to Alberta where a New Democratic Party won a majority of seats with only 40% of the vote.
While the NDP is set to gain a significant majority of seats, at the time of this writing they haven’t cleared 40% of the popular vote. The two conservative parties, the Progressive Conservatives and the Wildrose Party, together combine for 53% of the vote (the Liberal Party as 4%). Since Alberta has single-member districts, the effect of the split vote doesn’t just keep either of the conservative parties from winning a majority in the assembly, but splits the votes in individual districts as well, handing the NDP an outsized number of seats.
It’s entirely possible that in a head-on-head election between the NDP and either the PC or WR parties, that the NDP would have won. However, we don’t really know whether that’s true or not. There are basically three solutions to this disconnect. You can have direct runoffs, a transferable vote (also known as IRV), or proportional representation. Direct runoffs are the most familiar to Americans, because we use them for most primary races and some states use them in general elections. The transferable vote is more fair, and like runoffs do allow you to keep districts in tact, though a little more complicated for those who aren’t used to it. Proportional representation basically takes votes and assigns them according to how many votes they get, which has the advantage of allowing for numerous parties but the disadvantage of allowing for numerous parties and making constituencies less local and intimate (or adding a lot of legislators).
The United Kingdom has a strong aversion to abiding by Devurger’s Law and a remarkable patience with the consequences.
None of the aforementioned democratic inefficiency is particularly pressing when there are only two parties of significance, but that hasn’t been the case in the UK for a very long time. The flouting of Devurger’s Law has long been on the left, since the upstart Labor party took a run at the Liberal party and managed to displace them without actually killing them. Since then there have been three parties, two on the left and one on the right. The result is that even though the leftward parties have gotten a majority of the vote, Labor has alternated power with the Conservatives. They’ve been remarkably patient about this, neither merging the parties nor reforming the system. If they voted together, Margaret Thatcher may not have happened.
The United Kingdom democratically chose this democratic inefficiency.
When the latest and greatest innovations in democracy are not adopted where they should be appropriately adopted, or when a nation sticks to what seems an archaic way of choosing its representatives and leaders, I have a tendency to assume a degree of institutional inertia or something along those lines. In the US, we don’t have the electoral college because it’s popular (nor, as with the Senate, because it benefits more states than it hurts). We have it because it’s really, really hard to change. While I believe that a system of proportional representation in the US would be really hard to pull off, we haven’t expressly chosen single-member districts in over 200 years.
The United Kingdom, on the other hand, chose this. And recently, at that. One of the conditions of the Conservative-LibDem coalition was that there would be a referendum on the IRV. Even though it is the system of choice for some things in the Kingdom, the public overwhelming rejected it by a margin greater than 2-to-1. Not a single region on the entire map supported, and only one region (Northern Ireland) gave it a level of support of over 40%.
The initiative was somewhat popular at first, but the “No” campaign – with a lot of help from the Conservatives – successfully turned the tide of public opinion. Many political scientists believe (though I’m less sure) that the arguments against it lacked foundation. But even if the people were duped, that’s how democracy happens. It’s harder to argue against a systems democratic foundation when the people recently had the opportunity to adjust it and chose not to.
The London protesters need to take it up with the general public.
And the general public continue to say “No, thanks, we like this very much compared to the alternatives.” More than one person has suggested that the disparate results of UKIP, getting over 12% of the vote but only one seat, might cause Brits to re-evaluate their system. I suspect – though to not know – that shutting UKIP out is more of a feature than a bug, as far as most voters are concerned. Sometimes it is the preference to keep marginal parties marginal. On the other hand, it could solve the SNP problem (to those who see it as a problem) by reducing their presence considerably. Such decisions shouldn’t be made on the basis of which parties are liked and disliked, of course, but that’s still what’s likely to happen.
However, this time the conservatives won.
Perhaps the most remarkable thing about this election that has mostly gone unreported, is that conservative parties have won a majority of the vote for the first time in over half a century. You have to go all the way back to the 1950’s before you get even an ambiguous result (where it’s unclear either liberal or conservative parties won a majority) and possibly all the way back to the 1930’s. While the seat totals show a schism on the left, in terms of people voters, the right faced a bigger one. And they won anyway. If you combine the votes of the Conservative Party, UKIP, and Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionists, and you are above 50% without even having to contemplate the LDP (which I will get to). So with perfectly proportional representation, a Tory-UKIP coalition is the most likely result.
How would Cameron have done in a runoff? More than just 50%+1, it turns out. Using Lord Ashcroft‘s numbers regarding the major party candidate choice of the four largest minor parties (SNP, Green, UKIP, and LDP), the Conservatives win roughly 57/43% in a hypothetical runoff. The numbers hold whether I assume that the “Don’t know” voters don’t vote, or vote in proportion to the others. Cameron doesn’t drop below fifty even if I take every “don’t know” and give it to Miliband. And all of this, despite the fact that (like everybody else’s) Ashcroft’s Polls turned out to be biased towards Miliband.
In short, it is extremely, extremely difficult to avoid the conclusion that between the two major candidates, Cameron was more popular (or less unpopular) than Miliband among those who voted.
The Liberal Democratic Party perhaps should not be considered operationally liberal.
One of the reasons that Cameron gets such a boost when I divvy up the votes from the four second-tier parties is that Liberal Democratic voters with a preference preferred Cameron to Miliband, by greater than a 2-to-1 margin. As such, I was really putting my thumb on the scale by not including the LDP as part of the conservative coalition.
How did this happen to what was, in recent history, the most liberal of the three major parties? My first thought was that it was an artifact of the rebellion against the LDP for coalitioning with the Conservatives after the last election. Yet the results dont bear that out either. if that were the case, I would think that the constituencies that the Liberal Democrats lost in 2015 would go to Labour as those who depart show their true colors. And yet most of them went to Conservatives.
So what happened to the liberal members of the Liberal Democratic Party?
Whatever the case, they’re evidently not there anymore. It’s possible that the exodus of liberals will make what is left of it more conservative or centrist than liberal. Or maybe not. But last cycle they seemed to split the liberal vote and hand-hold with the Conservatives. This cycle their rank and file prefer Conservative. It seems inaccurate to continue to think of them as “liberals like Labour but unable to get along.”
The English map looks almost identical to 1992, kind of like ours, and has an interesting relationship with coal.
The largest difference between 1992 and 2015 is, of course, Scotland. But it’s a remarkable similarity in part because Miliband is something of a protege of Neil Kinnock, who lost to John Major in 1992. In addition to all that, the elections have in common that the polls were very skewed towards Labour and what was supposed to be a mild Labour advantage turned into a substantial Conservative victory.
The convergence of factors into similar maps is not too terribly surprising. It’s not quite as amazing as the 1896 vs 2000 maps, which are the same but for a few states and that the parties switched sides (the now-Republican states having lined up behind William Jennings Bryan, and the now-Democratic states having supported McKinley). It’s nonetheless interesting to note that it is not a strictly American phenomenon. Of course, unlike the Republicans, the Conservatives have an urban presence even if it is their opponents’ current base of support.
The coalfields map is also pretty interesting, though also not alien to the United States. If you look at some of the non-urban places in Red America where the Democrats do unusually well, it’s places like Butte and Pocatello with strong union histories.
Scotland didn’t cost Labour this election, but it’s going to make it difficult for Labour to win majorities in the future.
While Tony Blair and Neil Kinnock argue about who is to blame for the collapse of Labour, a lot of the discussion focuses on Scotland and the decimation-is-too-light-a-word for it. The left wing of the party argues that New Labour killed it, though others say yes but it’s complicated (and that it was more a matter of lousy politics rather than centrist politics). Either way, winning all of Scotland wouldn’t have given Labour a leg up in the existing system.
Even so, it leaves Labour in a very big bind. Labour actually made light gains in England proper, taking more seats from the Conservatives than the Tories took from them. Embracing the SNP as potential coalition partners risks undoing that. But it’s going to be hard to win England proper with a sufficient majority to overcome both Conservative and SNP seats. The best case is what a lot of people thought that they were looking at last week, where they have a minority government without a formal SNP coalition. Unless this past election was a fluke, it looks like the Scotland question has gone from one where Scotland’s exit would greatly hurt Labour to one where it would actually help them.
Another victim of the SNP sweep were the Liberal Democrats, who have historically had a significant presence there and (like Labour and the Tories) is reduced to a single seat. Former party leader Charles Kennedy was among the many tossed out. Other than the SNP, the only party not to lose any seats in Scotland were the Conservatives, who went from one to one.
So what happens now?
For the Labour, it’s mostly about Scotland. Nick Cohen suggests that Labour needs to learn to actually love England. For Conservatives, they’re going to need to sail over some very rough waters with higher expectations than they’ve had up to this point. Even though the seat-count of the government is lower than before, they can’t blame the lack of progress on the LDP.
And for the LDP, The Telegraph’s James Kirkuk argues that history will look more favorably on outgoing leader Nick Clegg than the voters have. Which is a small comfort for those who have lost their job, and who remain members of a party for whom the rationale of its existence is a little hard to nail down. I expect that whichever direction Labour lurches, they will look for space in the other.
{Ed note: This post was updated to add the last section, a version of which had been included in a previous draft and was lost along the way.}
Cameron has a lot of hard choices ahead of him. If he governs has a strong Tory that runs a serious risk of pushing the Scots out. Of course is he bows to somethings the Scots want his people will be pissed. There will be a referendum about the EU which will be really interesting
Everything i heard about the election suggested the electorate was disaffected and unhappy. It will be interesting to see of any of the parties aside from UKIP and SNP can really fire people up.Report
Ugh. I apparently lost my closing, which mentions this briefly.
Cameron may be able to kick the Scotland can down the road. “You had your referendum, you don’t get another one (for a while, until someone else is Prime Minister).”
He can consider more complete devolution, I guess, though I think England has reached it’s breaking point wherein they will either ask for their own parliament or their own caucus for internal English matters. Not unreasonably so, in my view. Once that happens, is the UK still the UK? or is it an umbrella for four mostly autonomous countries? And is the EU then an umbrella over an umbrella?
In any case, it’s a series of problems that Cameron will take, and that Miliband wishes he had.Report
Yeah he can keep putting off the Scots. They are lost to him.Report
In terms of campaign promises, he promised greater devolution if Scotland voted “no” in the referendum. He did not promise greater devolution if Scotland voted against Labour. He directly owes the Scots devolution for an earlier vote, and the near-sweep by the SNP in Scotland is evidence that voters in Dundee and Dumfries demand delivery of devolution.Report
True. But the Scots don’t like Cameron and he has no electoral interest there. He has little to lose by pissing them off more. Will he fob them off, i hope not and i doubt he’ll go to hard at that. However he has to balance a lot of changes.Report
“Once that happens, is the UK still the UK? or is it an umbrella for four mostly autonomous countries? And is the EU then an umbrella over an umbrella?”
Is there just the one (each) army, navy, and air force?Report
I think the nightmare scenario goes like this.
1. Britain votes in a referendum to leave the EU but closer inspection shows that a majority in Scotland voted to stay in
2. The SNP demand a quick referendum to take an independent Scotland back into Europe on the grounds that the Scottish people are being dragged out against their will.
3. Cameron refuses, considering the issue of independence settled.
What then?Report
My own view is that Scotland did indeed have their chance and shouldn’t get another referendum for a while… absent a change of circumstances like leaving the EU. So I’d actually be somewhat sympathetic to the Scots.
I didn’t save the link, unfortunately, but one of the interesting things I read about it all was that joining the EU independently could end up forcing Scotland’s economic policy in an even more unfavorable direction than Cameron.Report
That may depend on if they join the euro, I have heard that the cuts in countries like Spain are far greater than we have seen – to say nothing of the Greek crisis.
The other option, continuing to use the pound without official currency union much as the US dollar is used in Panama would have it’s own issues but might be easier.Report
In paragraph four, last sentence, maybe you meant to say “Margaret Thacher may [not] have happened.”
Also your charts and maps don’t seem to have any key. I don’t know what any of their colors mean.
Thanks for keeping up with the UK elections. Mostly, we just hear 2016 horse-race discussions.Report
If you click on the year below/beside the map, it’ll show you the results. The long and short of the coloring is that red is Labour (as is light green in NI), blue is Conservative, orange is LDP, yellow is SNP, purple is UKIP, clay is DUP, deep green are Sinn Fein and Plaid.
Thatcher thing has been fixed.Report
This was most exceptional, Will.Report
1. The LDP are sort of the inheritors of the old Liberal Party which used to occupy Labour’s part in government as one of the big two. The Liberals collapsed after the end of WWI and Labour became the ascendant political party. The death of the Liberal Party was long though and probably started in the late 1800s (when Keir Hardie began agitating for a voice for Labour and became the first openly socialist MP. Keir Hardie is considered one of the fathers of the Labour Party) because some Liberals began thinking at the time that welfare provisions needed to be provided by the Government. David Lloyd George was one of these Liberals. His famous speech on the matter was “The People’s Budget”.
2. The general phrase I hear about LDP voters is that they are supposed to be “Too rich for Labour and too smart for Tory.” Thatcher was really more of an exception than a rule for how right-wing she went. The Tory platform is an interesting mix of stuff that would make Democrats swoon and also be opposed by Democrats. Though I think this is because the Tories have more or less made peace with the welfare state and understand that they can’t get rid of NHS. American Democrats are still dealing with large sections of the GOP that salivate at the prospect of privatizing social security and dismantling the rest of the New Deal and Great Society. What is it about our right-wingers that make them still opposed to the New Deal and Great Society over half a century after the programs.Report
Frum at the Atlantic has an essay about the various conservative parties in Europe and how they differ from the GOP. The biggest one is they are all either okay with or for use of government to create a social safety net and perform functions like HC. The Tories want more privatization but there is a grand canyon of difference between them and the R’s. Their version of being hawkish, which the big euro conservative parties are, is quite a bit different then the GOP in practice. We have to put up the muscle and drive the interventions, which the GOP and Tories and other conservative parties are fine with.Report
I googled for Frum’s article. Since he is a Jewish-Canadian (and probably fairly urbane and secular), his big thing seems to be that the GOP is still beholden to the arch social conservatives from the Evangelical base. He seems to want to see a party that his socially secular. There is also the Libertarian base that seems to think the most minor concessions to social welfare programs is tyranny and evil taxation.
Our conservatives just might be more nuts.Report
Frum’s alienation from the soc-con part of the GOP is a recent phenonomon (and may not be entirely there). His main claim to fame is his ability to put words in George W Bush’s mouth that resonated with the Right Wing Christian Evangelicals while maintaining credibility for more mainstream audiences.
Frum is the guy who came up with “Axis of Evil” – an idea consciously echoing (and probably deliberately lifted) from Reagan’s Evil Empire speech. Reagan’s speech was delivered to an audience of Christian Evangelicals, and famously put the Cold War into eschatological terms. Frum almost certainly knew this legacy.Report
@saul-degraw
The fact that you are puzzled about why US is more right wing than the UK puzzles me. After all, it should be, I think, a rather banal observation that the particular collection of political beliefs in any given country need not have any strong systematic relation to the truth, but merely be a product of historical accident.Report
1. The LDP are more-or-less the literal inheritors of it. They’re the product of a merger between the Liberal Party and the Social Democrats, who were a breakoff from the Liberal Party. {Insert a joke here about putting two liberals in a room and getting three resolute opinions.}
2. The Reasonable Tory Hypothesis would carry more weight if Cameron’s re-election weren’t being greated with riots. Just a couple hours ago I tweeted:
Not that there isn’t some truth to what Frum is saying. But to some degree it’s, as Gabriel Rossman put it:
Report
1. The traditional joke is “Two Jews. Three Opinions.” (Disclaimer for the Humorless who Stumble Across this: I’m Jewish).
2. Fair point from Roseman. I would probably vote Labour if I lived in the U.K. but I do need to concede that the entire Overton window is further to the left in the U.K. even with Thatcher in the 1980s.
3. I can see the Tories being successful in U.S. cities in ways that the G.O.P. is not.Report
2. Yes, though not uniformly so. Discussions over there on immigration and free speech (to whatever extent we view the latter to be a liberal issue), for example, tend to be out of our realm on the other side.
3. Not just a theory. We’ve seen it happen! (Giuliani, Riordan, etc). Though some of the problem for conservatives in US cities is that the actual municipal boundaries are closer to the urban core. Which makes a Boris Johnson a lot more difficult.Report
Also UK politics goes just as much for hyperbole. I do wonder what Laurie Penny world describe as the destruction of the Welfare State though. Does she think it will be as de minimis as the U.S.? Their journalism is also allowed to be much more opinion and partisan than ours. Only the U.S. developed the idea that news media should be done in a “Just the Facts” manner.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/katie-hopkins-trounces-laurie-penny-in-battle-of-offensiveness-over-antitory-graffiti-suggests-she-should-be-made-a-woman-of-isis-10239162.htmlReport
Wouldn’t the riots just mean that the socialists in the UK are fishing crazy?Report
European conservatism comes partly from an aristocratic tradition. Welfare state programs like NHS can be fit into that tradition because of noblesse oblige. American conservatism comes from more mercurial roots and is more concerned with the bottom line.Report
The take that made me wince a little was (paraphrased) “it looks like socialized health care and social/economic conservativism otherwise is a winning combo”.
Which immediately made me think of Jeb.Report
I am unaware that Jen supports socialized healthcare. Evidence?Report
Will he be taking a “DISMANTLE OBAMACARE!” attitude or a “mend it, don’t end it” attitude?
If it’s the latter, we’re in “close enough for the US” territory.Report
I also think it is important to realize that one thing about the Westminster system is that it lets the opposition remain firmly partisan and they have thing to do but bide their time. Also I don’t think you can talk about the riots without mentioning the UK’s much more class-conscious population. There have been changes but Tories are still seen as the party of the old aristocracy. Ed Milband attended Oxford but he is still the son of a famous Marxist academic. This is something that would damn someone politically in the United States for anything more powerful than the Mayorship of Berkeley, Madison, Burlington, etc.Report
Barack Obama is a man who went to an hoity toity private (In the USA sense) school and is the son of a Marxist academic.Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V5Zoe84BjEReport
You close on questions facing Labour and facing the Tories, but it seems to me the toughest questions going forward face Scotland. Will their politics remain distinctly separatist, or will they seek to cash in their separatist moment for a stronger voice in British politics? Labour probably can’t coalition with a formally separatist SNP, but they can try to bring parts of a newly feisty Scotland back into the fold, if those parts will re-join. Obviously, Labour will seek to do that; they don’t really have a choice. The question is what everyone in Scotland wants to do.Report
The previous post was kind of Scotland-centric, so I didn’t devote as much time to it here. Like I said in the penultimate section, though, Labour is in a real bind. Too much friendliness with the SNP may cost them England. Not enough and it becomes really, really hard for them to get a majority.
My guess (influenced by the Scot who commented on the previous thread), SNP isn’t hugely interested in joining a coalition but is open to helping put Labour over the top in forming a government (and are likely inclined to vote with Labour on legislation anyway). Custom, though, requires that Labour get a plurality for that to happen. Getting a plurality is not impossible, though more difficult than it was before, obviously.Report
John Major, not Majors.
Also, do note that “population” and “electorate” are bandied about in certain newspapers as if they are synonymous. They are not. The population of the UK is a about 64m, the electorate of the UK is around 48m. Some sinister mathematics are possible by mixing these numbers up.
I recall reading New Scientist magazine in 2010, which is around the time of the previous General Election, when the Lib Dems were also making noise about wanting the AV voting system (for which the referendum mentioned in the post took place).
The article reported on a recent mathematical study which had proved that, given a regional “seating” based political system of government as we have, it is *impossible* to have a “fair” system, where everyone’s vote is equal. All the system can do is have a bias towards a particular style of government.
FPTP, for example, is biased towards majority governments. This seems to be preferred at the moment, since it gives a government that has a strong vision the clout to be able to fulfill that vision without having to pander to other parties’ potentially poisonous political whims. This means that policy changes necessary to keep up with society can be enacted swiftly. It also has the feature of rejecting outliers that are spread thinly across the population.
AV and other similar systems tend to favour coalitions to different extents which, as we’ve seen in the UK over the last five years, comes with its own advantages and disadvantages.
The hypocrisy of this all is that the people campaigning for “fairer” voting systems do not in general desire a fairer voting system. They simply want a voting system that favours their preferred political party (or, cynically, disfavours the Tories).Report
@kaz-dragon Thanks for the correction.
There are arguments for and against IRV (AV) versus FPTP. My own view (and the source of the “democratically inefficient” arguments) is that the latter only really works when you have two parties. Where it creates a problem for the UK and Canada is that there has been an ongoing preference for multiple parties.
I believe you’re right that a lot of advocates for IRV are engaging in motivated reasoning, but the circumstances really seem to bear it out, in my view, despite the fact that I am ideologically more sympathetic to the Conservatives than any of the liberal parties.
Interestingly, political scientists argue against the notion that IRV leads to coalitions and such. I don’t buy it, but I was debating the subject with Steven Taylor (a political science professor at Troy University) just a couple months ago. They have some data on their side (FPTP hasn’t prevented multiple parties in the UK, while IRV hasn’t lead to their proliferation in Australia), but I think that even if it doesn’t incentivize more parties, it does allow for them in the case of a divided electorate. There’s no doubt that proportional representation does lead to the proliferation of parties, though.
Ultimately, though, I believe that systems should be tailored to their electorates and demonstrated and likely voting patterns. Which is to say, if you have a commitment to more than two parties, the system should accommodate that. With IRV, at least, where you’re more likely to get representative majority governments and doesn’t actively encourage more parties the way that PR does (and doesn’t dilute local representation).Report
I played around with the idea of a hybrid. If the districts doubled in size, and half the seats in a 650-seat Parliament were awarded on a party list basis, the results of this election would have been something like this:
Tory: 285
Labour: 215
SNP: 43
UKIP: 41
LD: 30
Green: 13
Dem Union: 6
Sinn Fein: 4
Plaid Cymru: 3
SDLP: 2
Ulster Union: 2
Other: 1
This would have left the conservatives with 43.9% of the seats — maybe enough to try a minority government, but safer to form a coalition with either SNP or UKIP, which would give that coalition an outright majority.
Now, the Tories might approach the idea of forming a coalition with SNP with the same enthusiasm they’d approach eating a bug after losing a bet, and reject forming a government with UKIP out of hand. But that seems to be what a proportional system aims at them doing — reaching out to other parties to form a consensus, and a consensus agenda that incorporates Scottish devolution would be a whole lot easier for Cameron to form than a consensus that incorporates some of the signature issues of UKIP.
Also, a hybrid system have would resulted in the LD’s not being totally squashed, but still taking a beating: definitely a message from their voters that they didn’t like the coalition with the Tories.
Maybe something @kaz-dragon can address better than me. I use the term “Tory” or “Tories” interchangably with the Conservative Party. Is that correct? Or is there a secondary meaning to the word “Tory” that is not historically accurate?Report
@burt-likko I think it’s actually not at all unreasonable to have a bias against coalition governments, which KD seems to have. That’s why I look more towards the IRV as a way to send a circle peg through the square hole. That allows voters to choose two parties relatively easily, but also allows those who want other options to pursue them without throwing the overall vote. But voters rejected that, preferring even these lumpy results to the possibility of coalition-based governments.
The thing that prevents me from supporting PR here in the US doesn’t apply to the UK is that they have really, really local representation. So if they do change their mind on PR, they have a flexibility to do so that we don’t (unless we reconfigure the Senate).Report
@burt-likko
The original political parties in England came during the 17th century and they were The Whigs and the Tories. Both terms were insults taken on as badges of honor. The original Tories were aristocrats with strong monarchist tendencies. Their parents and grandparents were Cavaliers during the English Civil War and on the side of Charles I over Oliver Crowmwell. The Tories supported Charles the II and James the II. The Whigs were also gentry but more town than country and had quasi-Republic sentiments.
The Tories eventually became the Conservative Party in the early 1800s but the old term still remained.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tories_%28British_political_party%29#Conservatives
The Whigs slowly became the Liberals and the Liberals died because of their own reforms in extending the franchise and were replaced by Labour as the dominant left-wing party. The Liberals were also doomed because of rifts between the Gladstonians who hated the welfare state and more modern members like Lloyd George who saw welfare measures as necessary.Report
There once was an actual Tory party, back in the 1600-1800s, and its primary opposition were the Whigs (Labour was yet to have been invented). The word “tory” references that old party, and is synonymous with the Conservative party. It is not considered insulting; merely shorthand.Report
“And for the LDP, The Telegraph’s James Kirkuk argues that history will look more favorably on outgoing leader Nick Clegg than the voters have. Which is a small comfort for those who have lost their job, and who remain members of a party for whom the rationale of its existence is a little hard to nail down. I expect that whichever direction Labour lurches, they will look for space in the other.”
That doesn’t mean much, IMHO – of course the Torygraph is happy that a rival party (a) supported them in coalition for five years and then (b) self-destructed, with the Tories getting most of the seats.
It’s nice having somebody help me get what I want, and then hopping into the oven so that I can have a nice roast afterwards.Report
Here’s an interesting list of things that the LDP prevented the Tories from doing, if you’re interested.Report
For real prevented or the fake prevented that allowed the Tories to say “WE WANT TO DO THIS!!!” while also allowing the LDP to say “WE PREVENTED THE TORIES FROM DOING THIS!!!”?Report
I suppose we’re about to find out…Report
Tangential on this post, but the previous “Linky Ole England” post has closed comments.
As a member of the lunatic fringe that expects a break-up of the US within 50 years, it’s fascinating to consider that the UK has gone from the first (failed) Scottish devolution vote in 1979 to a lot of people of all different sorts casually saying that Scotland will be gone within 10 years.Report
The difference between the British and American situations is pretty simple – how the union was formed, what happened after the union, and what people think of themselves.
First, most of America was settled by people from other parts of America (and other parts of the world). The Scots and English have been the Scots and English for a milennia, for the most part. Second, even after the formation of the United Kingdom, large portions of the Scottish population were kept in feudal-like conditions for years upon years, with only a few people owning most of the land, with the English crowd supporting that arrangement. Also, Scottish families can say, “my ancestors were killed by English soldiers here,” and frankly, vice versa. Outside of the South, nobody in America can say that. And even the South, unlike Scotland, has been “colonized” over the past 40 years by Northern immigrants.
I don’t think a US breakup in a non-zero possibility in 50 years, but I don’t think the Scottish situation is any evidence for it, one way or the other.Report
Nitpicking
Large parts of Scotland, and England are still owned by a small number of people. What changed was not so much a greater distribution of land ownership as the population moving to towns and cities. That Lord Farquhat owns half the county becomes a lot less relevant when you are no longer his tenant farmer.
Scotland may be different on this but as an English person living in Wales I can tell you that there is a lot of ‘colonisation’, I don’t have numbers but in some places we seem to be perhaps a third of the population, and this doesn’t seem to have reduced a sense of separate identity at all. In fact, while I have never experienced any hostility or resentment I have heard about it particularly in Welsh speaking communities who feel their identity is threatened by incomers who cannot speak their language.Report
Every successful partition/secession will be different. Scotland is just an example of how far thinking about even the possibility can change over a period of 35 years.Report
I think your point about the numbers is important. The left needs to realise that we didn’t just lose the vote, we lost the argument and I don’t think anyone yet understands why. I do think it’s bigger than Milliband and not as easy to solve as moving the Labour party left or right a bit but beyond that I don’t know.Report