Linky Friday: Outrage
[LF1] Are You ‘Virtue Signaling’? Probably: “What our findings show is that asking whether outrage is “pure” is the wrong question. Even authentic outrage is influenced by implicit strategic calculations. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone familiar with evolutionary theories that hypothesize that morality arose precisely as a way of signaling one’s trustworthiness in cooperative endeavors.”
[LF2] Baltimore deserves better than a one-star mayor: “People are justifiably outraged about what’s happening in Baltimore and that anger is spilling out everywhere. On social media. On city streets. And yes, even on an Amazon page that is hard to find because “Healthy” is missing a “y,” leaving the title to read “Health Holly” above a picture of the book and a bio of Pugh.”
[LF3] ‘So Disheartening’: At Colleges Embroiled in Scandal, a Sense of Outrage and Sadness: “Many of the universities, though, have moved swiftly to fire coaches implicated in the scheme. Parents have made first appearances in court. And companies have distanced themselves from executives accused of paying William Singer, a college admissions consultant, to use bribes and deceit to raise their children’s test scores or get them admitted to their chosen schools through athletic recruiting spots, despite the fact that they were not competitive athletes.”
[LF4] Trump says “Special Olympics will be funded” amid outrage over budget cuts proposed by Betsy DeVos: ““I heard about it this morning,” he said. “I have overridden my people. We’re funding the Special Olympics.” Trump’s announcement came after Education Secretary Betsy DeVos spent days defending the proposal , which drew widespread condemnation from lawmakers as well as advocates and celebrities. The president’s sudden reversal reflected a political desire to move away from a plan that was not expected to pass Congress but also underscored Trump’s comfort with undercutting top officials.”
[LF5] Algeria’s President finally resigned. Will that be enough to quell protests?: “Bouteflika’s resignation on Tuesday was a huge turnabout for the sickly 82-year-old leader, who had initially planned on running for a fifth term in elections slated for April. The prospect had triggered weeks of demonstrations by hundreds of thousands of dissatisfied Algerians. Meanwhile, the presidential vote has also been shelved.”
[LF6] Amid the cycles of outrage, a strategy emerges: Just ride it out.: “It may be easier than ever to outlast the winds of outrage because the winds blow from so many directions and shift constantly. In a feature titled “The Year of Outrage,” Slate magazine documented 365 incidents, one for every day of the year, that incited widespread revulsion or protest on social media. Some of the controversies were trivial (“August 19: A New York Post writer says catcalls are flattering and she loves them”), although many were of widespread public interest. The point was, there was always something.”
[LF7] Facebook’s Crisis Management Algorithm Runs on Outrage: “It’s been almost exactly a year since news broke that Facebook had allowed the personal data of tens of millions of users to be shared with Cambridge Analytica, a consulting company affiliated with Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. That revelation sparked an investigation by the U.S. Justice Department into the company’s data-sharing practices, which has broadened to include a grand jury. Privacy breaches are hardly as serious as ethnic violence, but the ordeal did mark a palpable shift in public awareness about Facebook’s immense influence.”
[LF8] Only 40% of adults believe student climate protests will make a difference: “While three out of five Irish adults were found to support children and young people in their call to action, researchers found only 41 per cent expected the demonstrations would be “fairly” or “very” effective while more than a third expected the strikes would be “ineffective”.”
[LF9] French authority rejects pre-emptive ‘yellow vest’ protest bans: “France’s Constitutional Council on Thursday struck down a measure that would have let authorities ban certain individuals from protesting, a key element of the government’s plan to crack down on violence at “yellow vest” demonstrations. The council, which rules on the validity of laws, said the proposal gave officials “excessive latitude” to justify the individual bans against people suspected of being “a particularly serious threat to law and order.”
[LF10] Trump: Smollett case ‘outrageous,’ FBI and Justice Department to review: “Prosecutors infuriated Chicago’s police chief and mayor this week when they abruptly dropped 16 felony counts against the “Empire” actor that were related to making a false police report. Prosecutors offered little explanation and sealed the case — yet still insisted the actor faked a racist, anti-gay attack on himself in January.”
[LF11] Philippines protests hundreds of Chinese ships around disputed island: “As many as 275 Chinese ships and boats have been spotted this year around Thitu island, also known as Pag-asa island in the Philippines, said Jason Ramon, chief of public affairs for the Philippine military’s western command, to CNN Philippines. Armed forces spokesperson Edgard Arevalo cautioned that it was difficult to quantify how many ships are around the island at any one time, as Chinese vessels “come and go” from the area. “The information that we got is the more likely intention is to establish their presence in the area,” he told CNN Philippines on Monday.”
[LF12] City councillor says it’s time to debate protest buffer zone for schools: “In a notice of motion going to council Monday, Farrell points to related provincial legislation passed last spring to create safe-access zones around Alberta’s abortion clinics. Similar safe-access laws also exist in B.C., Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec and Ontario. Expanding the concept of protest buffer zones to include schools has also been raised by the Alberta Party candidate for the area, Angela Kokott, who originally shared video of the Queen Elizabeth school protests on Twitter. And prior to the election being called, former health minister Sarah Hoffman said an NDP government would amend legislation to prevent similar protests around K-12 schools.”
[LF13] US halts F-35 equipment to Turkey in protest of its missile purchase from Russia: “”Pending an unequivocal Turkish decision to forgo delivery of the S-400, deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability have been suspended,” Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Mike Andrews, a Defense Department spokesman, said in a statement. Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan has refused to back down from Ankara’s planned purchase of a Russian S-400 missile defense system that the United States has said would compromise the security of F-35 aircraft.”
[LF14] Cleveland Indians Opening Day Protests: 526 Years (and Counting) of Dignity and Resistance: “The annual Native American protests at yesterday’s home opener for the Cleveland “Indians” MLB team were quiet, if otherwise typical. Most typical being the constant sneering and shouting at the protesters by the (mostly Caucasian) fans of the team who were upset that anyone would question their right to make a mascot out of a largely exterminated race of people. “You already won! Chief Wahoo is gone! Why are you still out here complaining?”
[LF15] Hamas violently suppresses Gaza economic protests: “Hamas appears to have forcibly suppressed a rare uptick in public dissent in Gaza, beating and arresting scores of people over the past week who have been demonstrating against price rises and dire living conditions across the strip. A group of activists and civil society figures calling itself “We want to live” had planned a general strike on Thursday, but after attacks by riot police since last week it was not clear whether the strike would go ahead.”
[LF16] Mum’s plea for girls to ditch leggings sparks protests: “”I was ashamed for the young women at Mass,” Ms White wrote. “I thought of all the other men around and behind us who couldn’t help but see their behinds.” “Think of the mothers of sons the next time you go shopping and consider choosing jeans instead,” she suggested to the female students of the University of Notre Dame. The letter sparked an immediate backlash from students, who argued that their choice of clothing should not be policed and women should be free to wear what they want.”
[LF17] ‘All I hear is anger and frustration’: how Brexit is affecting our mental health Brexit: “Feeling low and anxious? Suffering from disrupted sleep? Could Brexit be damaging your mental health? A Britain Thinks poll of more than 2,000 people, the results of which were released this week, found that 83% of those surveyed were sick of hearing about Brexit, while 64% thought it was damaging their mental health. The poll found that the dominant words people use in relation to Brexit have changed: in 2017, it was “confusing” or “uncertain”; now, it is “broken” and “chaos”. No politician is singled out, because we’re blaming all of them equally; except for David Cameron, who has a special, individuated space in the nation’s psyche as the man who unleashed this hell. Wishing for the politics of a lost age is the last thing people do when they have given up: it isn’t an acceptance of the status quo, but rather frustration at not being able to put these hideous worms back in their can.”
[LF16] Best response I’ve seen yet:
When Suits Become a Stumbling Block: A Plea to My Brothers in Christ
As a straight female I agree with every example of temptation (esp the pics of guys reading – c’mon are you *trying* to inspire lust?). She missed only one: guys snuggling puppies. Not THAT is an occasion for sin. 😉Report
yes, one indicator that you’re a responsible grown-up adult is definitely to react with snark and anger when someone asks you to wear pants in churchReport
It isn’t the asking to wear pants because it’s church that’s the issue. It’s the whole, “you wanton hussies are all a lusty distraction for my angelic sons!”
That’s what earns the snark.Report
Is she wrong, tho? Tight leggings *do* make it clear that there’s an ass in them, and teenage boys are not really known for their ability to keep their minds on task when there’s ass about.Report
Boys are also easily distracted by pretty faces though.
Maybe women should wear veils.Report
oh hi there Fallacy Of Excluded Middle how are you doing today
bro, if you want a world where people Ain’t Give Two Shits Bout Yer Culcher’s Norms that’s cool, you go with that, but it’s kind of not the world you’ve been advocating for. Like, I’m pretty sure you’ve made arguments based on norms and on a community’s expected standards of behavior and on people’s preferred forms of interaction with them, and that’s exactly what’s going on here, but since it’s Sally Churchpants we’re pointing and mocking because LOL a white woman has an opinion.Report
The entire discussion springs from an excluded middle.
If leggings are exactly as provocative as total nudity, then demanding a girl be clothed is exactly like demanding she wear a burka.
Of course there is a middle ground in there somewhere.
Are leggings so wildly provocative that they excuse boy’s misbehavior?Report
“If leggings are exactly as provocative as total nudity…”
nobody but you is…saying they are…?Report
The complaining woman is saying they are, if not exactly as provocative, at least provocative enough to excuse boy’s bad behavior.
Which seems like she is excluding quite a lot of middle.Report
Of course women should wear veils in church.Report
The thing is, though, that faces aren’t the issue at Mass. You’re generally not facing the other person’s face; you’re behind the other person’s behind.Report
Teenage boys are not really known for their ability to keep their minds on their task.
“If we all change our behavior, teenage boys will stop being distracted by thoughts of sex,” is not a very plausible theory.Report
“this person is easily distracted”
“therefore we should remove distractions from situations where we want them to pay attention”
“how dare you suggest we do that, you ridiculous priggish prude”Report
“This person is so easily distracted that removing any individual distraction is likely going to have, at best, a marginal effect, and removing all distractions is impractical.”Report
“Oh, I didn’t mean remove women or make them dress in burkas. How about we provide blinders to the guys who need that much help with visual distraction?”Report
“If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out!Report
I’m easily distracted by offensive odors, do we really need to let the homeless people into the church during mass, they smell!Report
I don’t know much about churches, but do they let homeless people in during mass?Report
Yes. Every Mass I’ve been to in a large city (globally) has been frequented by the homeless.Report
Yep, what Marchmaine said. And smaller cities too. I grew up going to a basilica in a town of 50,000, everyone was welcome during mass and both homeless people and smelly people attended regularly without interference. (non-coterminous categories, btw, I will note as someone who works in a service job where we *do* serve homeless people and *don’t* serve distractingly smelly people, though I know the original connection of that by Oscar was facetious.)
I’ve only ever seen people asked to step out of Catholic Mass for being disruptive in a non-passive manner – and even then unless they were violent they were asked to go into a separate room where they could still hear the mass (hooray modern tech?). I’ve occasionally seen people asked to remove loud children from Episcopal services on the grounds that people couldnt’ hear the priest (again, to a separate room where they could still hear).
Now, community shaming of people for non-active-disruption things (eg the originally linked article) can and does happen outside of Mass and does drive some people away from attending.
BUT, I’ve never seen someone turned away or removed (in many different cities, in many different countries, in many different “styles” of church) for being distracting in a way that doesn’t physically interfere with or threaten other people.
I mean, we had crying rooms and people took their babies into them, but *voluntarily* not coercively. And I’ve certainly been in masses where the baby was gonna cry the whole time, we were all gonna deal with it, and nothing at all was said to either parent. (Which is a lot more “distracting” than either leggings or smelly people, for me at least.)
I often talk about my problems with the church (at least in RL, not so much on here), but on the issue of who gets turned out of services and who doesn’t, my experience has been uniformly positive, that is to say, inclusive.
And I do watch to see what happens in these cases, and I know churches of other faiths where I’ve seen that handled really poorly, not just by the community *around* the service, but actually during the service. Nothing makes me want to walk out of a service faster than someone being treated poorly for not conforming to society’s norms, so I’m pretty aware of when it does and doesn’t happen.
(I’m not saying it never gets handled poorly in Catholic contexts – just reporting my rather extensive experience.)Report
A lot of inner city Catholic churches have soup kitchens. They generally have strong relations with the homeless population. And you’re definitely more likely to find beggars around a religious service.Report
Very true, but the only way to learn how to keep your mind on task when faced with distractions is to experience those distractions while trying to keep your mind on task.
Think of it as training for male adulthood. Those fit young women in leggings are performing a public service in teaching those teenage boys how to control their baser instincts. Now, if only the boys mother would do her part and smack the boys upside the head when their attention wanders after a shapely rear end…Report
“he only way to learn how to keep your mind on task when faced with distractions is to experience those distractions while trying to keep your mind on task.”
that’s dandy but that’s also not the point of churchReport
Ya know, being the heathen that I am, it’s been a while since I’ve been to a catholic mass, but doesn’t it involve a lot of sitting in pews?
As for the leggings themselves, I’d suggest that young men who can not help but be distracted by shapely young women are not going to be hindered in their distraction by anything less than a burka or muumuu.Report
There’s also a good amount of standing with your head bowed in prayer, meaning that your line of vision is aimed at the butt of the person two feet in front of you.
So on this thread we’re talking about evolutionary psychology, and we’re also saying that young men shouldn’t notice young women’s butts in skin-tight pants?Report
Huh. I generally close my eyes when praying…
But honestly, I don’t see guys noticing a woman’s butt as all that problematic as long as they don’t act on that inappropriately. Let’s face it, guys notice women’s butts in skirts and dresses too. Do we need to go back to wearing bustles to help them avoid temptation?Report
Is there a place where we can vote yes on bustles? Not sure it helps with the temptation thingy, but as long as yer askin’.Report
There are groups into historical costuming and such. You’d likely find bustles there.Report
If you want to wear a bustle, I won’t stop stop you. 🙂Report
“If you want to wear a bustle, I won’t stop stop you.”
Well, then, we are much obliged.Report
Mmm, bustles…baby got back.Report
Or it’s aimed at your feet, kinda depends on where you aim it now, don’t it.
See, reading this, it sounds less like her boys are distracted, than she doesn’t like that her boys are thinking about girls shapely bottoms at church. Which makes this her problem, and no one else’s.Report
“kinda depends on where you aim it now, don’t it.”
That’s the thing.
I mean, I certainly had a lot of potential to be distracted by a lot of butts in my teenage churchgoing days. Boy butts, girl butts…
You know what I did? I made sure to look at the prayerbook or the pew or close my eyes or whatever. It was *pretty damn easy* – even during the days when boys would come to church wearing sagging jeans that showed a good inch or more of their underwear (which I noticed but wouldn’t write a damn article about, then or now) – not effortless but not any harder than any of the other social norms required by a Catholic service. I mean, it’s a lot less distracting then remembering when to do what with your own body, unless you get told over and over and over that training yourself to not stare and fantasize when your mind should be elsewhere is some impossible task….
Girls (and actually MOST boys in this day and age) aren’t told it’s an impossible task so they don’t blame someone else when they are less than perfect at doing it, they just do it without a whole lot of effort.
It is easier than remembering how the hymns and missals work, easier than kneeling and standing at the right times…
And I say that as someone who is infinitely distractible by butts when I don’t consider it unacceptable to be so.Report
Of course they should! Hell, I notice shapely women in leggings all the time while I’m driving, yet somehow I have incredibly low insurance rates because I’m able to keep my attention on the road.
Now, if I was in a church, and had somehow not caught fire or been otherwise smote, and in prayer with a fine ass in front of me, not only would I be able to appreciate said fine ass, I would also be able to continue reciting the prayer. And if the ass was too distracting, and the prayer was that important, I would close my eyes.
See, the whole reason this is utter BS is because this woman is pissed that her sons are young men, interested in young woman, and too distracted by a set of curves to keep their minds on the serious business of prayer.
Which makes all of this her problem.Report
This is not a response to my post.Report
I’d suggest that young men who can not help but be distracted by shapely young women are not going to be hindered in their distraction by anything less than a burka or muumuu.
It has been a long time since I was a teenaged boy, but my recollections are the fact that girls existed was enough to cause distracting thoughts. Which made it very much my problem, not theirs.Report
Leggings are pants.Report
Alternately, in response to “leggings aren’t pants” statements, I sometimes go with “indeed, leggings, skirts, kilts, lederhosen, sarongs, and togas are all examples of appropriate garments for the lower body that aren’t pants. ” I can go either way on that, really.Report
They’re obviously pants.Report
+100 I am borrowing this response for next time someone tells me ‘leggings aren’t pants’Report
First, her ‘boys’ were in college and presumably capable of not walking into trees because girls wear leggings on campus. Second, if it was really that bad, wouldn’t the priest be the one to ask them to dress differently?
I have a 15 yr old son. He laughed at the idea that a mom would feel the need to write this sort of thing. “Leggings can draw your eye, but too super distracting to not stare when you’re sitting next to your mom in church? Wow, do Catholics never go to the beach?”Report
if church happened at the beach that would be relevantReport
His point being that even guys his age learn not to get so easily distracted and even in settings where women are wearing much more revealing clothing.Report
@densityduck Church does happen at the beach. Regularly. Including Catholic church. Their church might not happen at the beach but there’s no need to be unnecessarily reductive about church just to win a dumb argument about leggins.Report
so church happens at the beach sometimes and therefore we can’t expect any particular level of decorum from anyone, got it.Report
I don’t know if this is a tangent or not, but I basically grew up at the pool, and I’ve never found women in swimsuits appealing. They’re utilitarian outfits. A little bit of leg showing under a long skirt is more provocative than a bikini bottom to me. I also don’t find leggings attractive. They strike me as trashy.Report
From my side of the gender divide, I agree. Overall, I find nicely worn in jeans on a guy more appealing than most swim trunks.
However, I assume the Sports Illustrated swim suit edition is so popular for some reason, and there are a lot of other magazines better positioned to market swimsuits to women.Report
I think that personal tastes matter, but so does context. Two stories come to mind. One was from a supermodel – Cindy Crawford maybe? – where she took a meeting topless. She was on vacation, at a topless beach, and I don’t remember how the business discussion got started, but it just sort of evolved. She didn’t have a top nearby. Another story comes from P.J. O’Rourke, writing about when he was in the Middle East, and a kid came up to him selling “dirty” black and white photos of a woman in a 1920’s swimsuit. He looked at the photos and blushed.Report
This is true. When my grandmother was a little girl, a woman showing – gasp! – a bare ankle would have been considered just as distracting as one in leggings now, if not more so.
Makes me wonder how this sort of thing plays out in nudist colonies.Report
As a man, I’m deeply offended by the number of people who seem to think my gender lacks agency and self-control.
I did fine. My peers did fine. My son did fine. My brother did fine. My cousins did fine. That’s because we were all actual people, who were entirely responsible for our actions and deeds.
If your kid finds the sight of a woman in leggings too distracting to handle, keep your kid at home. It’s not her problem, it’s his. He’s got agency,
“My poor, helpless boys! Slaves to their programming! While will those nubile young women, the ones with free will, not understand how the poor boys, with their lack of free will, are hurt by them?”
Every time this crap comes up, it’s the same thing every time. It’s not “What the hell is wrong with the boy” it’s “Why was she dressed like that? Why was she there? Why wasn’t she better!”.
And most of the time it’s from men, no less.Report
This has nothing to do with boys, however. It’s about the woman herself, and how she has projected her own discomfort under the guise of protecting impressionable young men.
The thing is, the young men in question didn’t say anything. As far as we know, they have a perfectly healthy attitude to attractive women in yoga pants — which is to appreciate beauty in a respectful way. And yes, indeed, I believe that adolescent men are capable of that, even if they probably fall short sometimes.
Let’s be real. It’s very unlikely that this women is honestly motivated by protecting young men. Instead, she is revealing her own shallow preoccupations, which likely stem from some unfortunate mixture of envy and disgust.
tl;dr — This has nothing to do with boys. The old killjoy is either a fuddy duddy or just a jelly donut. Ignore her. Mock her. Whatever. No young women should spend much time worrying about the squacks of madam sourpuss.Report
Of course it has nothing to do with boys. We do have free will. It’s not something we traded away for a dick.
But it’s always the same refrain, no matter who it’s coming from. “Won’t you think of the poor boys” like we’re slaves to our hormones, unable to consciously act. Mindless, rutting animals.
She’s flat out insulting an entire gender with her words, and she’s not remotely the only one. There’s a lot of feedlines into toxic masculinity, and this sort of thing is a big one, the assumption that a horny man is mindless and incapable of control, and that if a man is horny it’s a woman’s fault.Report
[LF6] hey awesome, the end result of call-out culture is that we’ve bred a race of sociopaths. “fuck you, you ain’t me, you ain’t kin, I ain’t even know you, why I care what you say?”Report
It was either that, or a race of sheep to afraid to bleat for fear of upsetting the herd. And us humans are still a rather ornery and self-centered lot, despite centuries of effort to make us otherwise.Report
It’s not sociopathy. Humans have never been expected to care about what random strangers they will never meet think of them. One of the problems with the internet is that we’re trying to deal with it using a social brain that only ever had to track the couple hundred people whose opinion of you mattered for your day-to-day survival.
Trying people int he court of public opinion isn’t going to lead to justice, I know people too well to believe that.Report
[LF10] Seems to me that the guy will forever more be known as That Dude Who Paid Guys To Beat Him Up and that he doesn’t really need more punishment than that. Continuing to prosecute would be a waste of everyone’s time, and he’s already wasted quite a bit of everyone’s time.
“but he’ll get away with it!” Get away with *what*? He *wanted* to have a movie-star job forever, because who would want the ration of shit from firing A Victim Of A Hate Crime? He definitely won’t get that now. What’s he gonna get away with?Report
Probably, but the whole thing stinks of a payoff or other interference. Less famous people have done such things to waste everyone’s time and not enjoyed such mercy.
The DA didn’t have to drop the million pound shit hammer on him, but he could have given him a couple hundred hours of community service for being a dumbass and everyone would have probably been satisfied with that.Report
And then he lawyers up to avoid having an actual criminal conviction on his record, and the city has to spend MORE money nailing his dumb ass down, and he might not even get convicted of anything if he can claim convincingly enough that, in that moment, he genuinely thought he was being attacked. I’ll take the W we’ve got.Report
Also like I dunno, the idea that nothing incredibly embarrassing about Chicago law enforcement or an Illinois prosecutor’s office is gonna come out during the proceedings seems like kind of a long shot.Report
Therefore, we should be calling for…?Report
Depends on whether you want to watch a 17 dimensional train wreck unfold in real time.Report
Always a fan of those, but I was wondering if there were some theoretical moral or ethical considerations.Report
It means there’s a real likelihood that Jussie Smollet might actually come out of this in a better situation than he is in now, despite his own wrongdoing, as malfeasance on the part of agents of the state comes to light.
That definitely pushes me towards, “Let’s do it and be legends!” because I worry less about Smollet getting away with whatever the hell he thought he was trying to do than I do about law enforcement getting away with whatever they the hell they thought they were trying to do.
And I suppose if Smollet winds up in more trouble because the Chicago PD and the prosecutor’s office didn’t do anything that’s cause for humiliation or worse, that’s also an entirely acceptable outcome.Report
Fair enough.
I think that Jussie is kinda crazy. It’d be one thing if he got found out and then slunk away in shame. If he apologized and talked about the importance of “starting a conversation of how hateful Trump and his supporters are”.
But “I did nothing wrong!” means that the cops did stuff wrong and now it’s time for sunshine to get in there and do its thing.
But I suspect that the most likely outcome is that Jussie comes out much worse, we find out that Chicago cops have black sites and a *LOT* more cameras looking at a *LOT* more people than even the politicians knew about, and the thing that will piss everybody off is Jussie’s audacity rather than the Orwellian thing that the cops have going on.
They’re fighting against crime, don’t you know.Report
An ordinary person has to go to jail, but a famous person falling from grace is punishment enough? No, thanks.Report
I don’t know why you think this is going to go so easily. Dude may have been on the outs but he’s still got money, certainly enough to hire someone competent who can make the cops look like bastards and the whole thing look like they’re trying to railroad him for making a scene. Remember that these are criminal charges, here, not a “preponderance of evidence” civil case.
I mean, they got freakin’ OJ Simpson off and he was practically still stabbing the corpses when the cops ran in, do you think they’ll have trouble with this one? “Well I guess I didn’t take notes when I was being punched in the head, so I can’t give a complete and accurate transcript of what the attackers said. I remember a lot of yelling and I couldn’t really tell what they were saying, and I kinda figured that me being black and out meant that the two guys who jumped me had that in mind, y’know? Of course I called the cops after, wouldn’t you? Oh, these two dudes say I hired them? Yeah, they’d just got arrested, they’d say they were workin’ for Richard Nixon it if they thought it’d get them off.”
And, speaking of OJ Simpson, how many movies has he been in lately? Not many? Welp. Maybe social punishment works after all.Report
I recognize that Smollett is experiencing punishment. One could even say that he lost 40% of his hitpoints via public humiliation, and that would match the damage that a poorer person would take by serving a few months in prison. Proportionate justice may have been served. But that’s a terrible approach for a society based on a system of laws. We’ve all seen cases where a politician is punished for taking bribes by losing a committee seat, or an athlete is punished for domestic abuse by a four-game suspension. I much prefer equal justice under the law.Report
I recognize that he made you mad and you want him to get hurt for that. I mean, it was such a good story, wasn’t it? And then it turns out to all be bullshit, well. That’s a tough one to get over.Report
Dude, it was obviously false from the start. I laughed the first time I heard it. Didn’t you? And I don’t want him hurt for it. He could tell people that story all day, and I’d laugh at it every time. He filed a false police report, and I want the law applied evenly on that regard.Report
He set up a fake crime, filed a false police report, and wasted a lot of PD time. He should absolutely pay for that. If a judge wants to impose a heavy fine and community service instead of jail time, I guess that’s par for the course for a lot for rich or folks, but he shouldn’t get off with just ‘gee, that was really embarrassing and might have hurt your career.’Report
how do we get there, though?
This is not like a parking ticket. This is a crime; formal charges must be filed and there must be a trial, and trials don’t always go the way you want. The judge doesn’t get to just say “well there’s been a lot of stuff in the newspapers so in my judgement you’re guilty”, unless it’s a bench trial (which it will not be).
And if you’re worried about waste of resources then why are you suggesting the City of Chicago throw more resources into this particular hole?Report
This person will hire expensive lawyers and fight the case in court therefore let’s let him off?
That seems like a really terrible precedent to set.Report
you seem really weirdly obsessed with having the cops go after a nonviolent black manReport
I’m not particularly obsessed with this case one way or the other. I certainly won’t be flyign to Chicago to protest or even signing online petitions. 😉
I am advocating for equal treatment under the law. I also think the white lady in Em’s recent post who filed a false police report should face charges.Report
The newly elected mayor, an African-American lesbian, has said Smollett must be held accountable, which I assume means that the civil/ordinance lawsuit will go forward after Rahm is gone.Report
Formal charges did not need to be filed; that’s within the prosecutor’s discretion. Charges should not be filed if they don’t have the evidence to support it or if they don’t feel the crime is worth the resources of a prosecution.
Filing charges, impaneling a grand jury, committing the city police to continue building the case, and then simply dropping the case was schizophrenic. Not meeting with the referring agency (city police) first was unprofessional. Not utilizing established diversion programs, exposed the city and county to lawsuits and the prosecutor to reasonable claims of corruption.Report
LF2: Does Baltimore deserve a better mayor? Does any democracy deserve better elected officials? Imperfect information results in sometimes picking a bad candidate, but if it happens regularly, then people are getting the leaders they deserve.Report
Hey, does anybody have any evidence that LF1 has any grounding in how people actually behave?Report
From the article: ” Our point is that the presence of strategic motives does not itself make a moral reaction inauthentic.”
Vindicates my entire project of hypothetical counter outrage for future plausible deniability. Or wait, maybe that does make my moral reaction inauthentic.Report
Countrage.Report
…is exactly how I experienced golf.Report
I just looked at the article. I expect lousy writing in the NYT, but that was horrible. If the question is whether outrage is authentic or “merely” / “just” strategic, the answer can’t be “both”. If it’s merely virtue signalling, then it can’t be partially something else. It reminds me of the common usage of the word “coincidence”. When we use it, we’re implicitly saying that something is merely coincidental. But something can’t be both merely coincidental and on purpose. Am I overreacting? No. The entire article was about whether there’s a distinction between genuine and simulated outrage. This article is written nonsensically.Report
Part of the fundamental problem is that there are matters of taste and maters of morality.
People mix them up all the time. I’m sure we can all think of examples of how people mistook a matter of taste for what was really a matter of morality (or confusing what we know is a matter of morality for what they thought was merely a matter of taste).
It’s when they start yelling and screaming after making a mistake and passing laws and enforcing norms that we start having problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yzY-HUvavUReport