-{The Doctor}-
PBS ran an article on dissenters on the Dr Seuss Question:
Amid the adoration is a small but vocal group of parents who take issue with the author’s use of nonsensical language.
There’s Jennifer Graham, who once took to The National Review as a frustrated mom.
“I always thought the point of reading to children was to teach them about language,” she writes. “How does Dr. Seuss help? Heck, he knew so few words that he had to make most of his up.”
She writes about losing it while reading Seuss to a group of children: “‘I DON’T KNOW WHAT A TRUFFULA TREE IS!’ I shriek. ‘I don’t know what any of this stuff is!’”
There’s Amy Mascott, a state-certified reading specialist in Maryland, who wrote a blog post two years ago that began with a confession: “I don’t love Dr. Seuss. I don’t, and I haven’t, and I won’t. So there. I said it.”
And there’s this commenter from a online Goodreads discussion. “Is Dr. Seuss good for kids? He makes up words. Then when my kids start making up words I have to be the bad guy and shoot them down.”
I’ve found myself undisturbed, which for those who know me isn’t surprising. I am actually quite impressed with my daughter’s ability to pick up on abstract imagery, to see a cartoon cow that doesn’t look like a cow, but successfully associate it with an actual cow. She is genuinely better at identifying the Play-Do outlines. She calls something a pig and I look at it and hey yeah that actually is a pig I had thought it was a dog.
-{Bad Books}-
Alan Jacobs takes issue with parents complaining about how bad children’s books are, wondering if our parents ever complained about the books they had to read to us.
Well, they didn’t complain to me or anything. And I wouldn’t dream of complaining to Lain. It is indeed one of those parental tasks to be taken with a smile. That doesn’t mean, of course, that we can’t vent on the Internet. At least a little bit. And that’s probably one of the differences. Used to be you just vented to other parents.
I enjoy reading to Lain within limits. Lain, however, does not always recognize limits. She is particularly aggressive with Clancy, who is more indulging. Since she isn’t around all day, she doesn’t quite need to set the boundaries that I do.
Lain’s library was mostly procured over eBay. You can get large sets of books for really reasonable prices. Some of them are not in the best condition, but that’s okay because if the book falls apart, you can make an informed decision about whether or not to pay full price for it. Sometimes you’re kind of glad it’s gone. Other times, though, you know it’s worth paying $10-20 for because you know that both parent and child will enjoy it. That’s worth a lot.
Some of the books are really bad, and Lain’s tastes are a bit spotty. The worst books are the educational ones. Intended for somewhat older kids. There’s one called You Will Go To the Moon, which is vaguely technical (explaining how a space station would simulate gravity) and boring. Also, given that she will not in fact go to the moon, a cruel lie. There’s another one about whale migration that I am not a big fan of, though it taught her the word “whale.”
I find myself wondering if Dr Seuss just ruined the industry. He was so prolific, and so good, and his works mostly so timeless, that I wonder if he rendered obsolete any book written since. More likely, it’s related to the fact that writers probably like to consider themselves above writing children’s books. It’s probably considered less impressive to say at a dinner party that you write children’s books than loftier stuff aimed at mature audiences. (I also think this is why comic books have “matured” over the years, or at least a contributing component.
It seems to be a pretty tight market, in the overall. The free ebook options, which for some reason I expected to be many, are actually quite rare (though Gecko on the Wall is great, and Danielle Bruckert‘s other books tend to be fun). And Kindle is so hit-and-miss with independent authors, and children’s books themselves especially so, that I haven’t really dived in as much as I otherwise might.
-{Berenst#in Bears}-
This is really, really important. Evidently, there is a rip in our time-space continuum that has been identified by the Berenst#in Bears.
Here’s the thing. These books play such a huge role in the collective memories of so many people, all of whom clearly and distinctly remember “BerenstEin”, that I am not the first to propose the notion that somehow, at some time in the last 10 years or so, reality has been tampered with and history has been retroactively changed. The bears really were called the “BerenstEin Bears” when we were growing up, but now reality has been altered such that the name of the bears has been changed post hoc.
In 1992 they were “stEin” in 1992, but in 2012 they were “stAin” in 1992.
Some explanations have been proposed. One person suggested a change due to time travel, similar to “A Sound of Thunder” by Ray Bradbury. It’s an interesting theory, and I admire it for its simplicity, but it is flawed. Time travel doesn’t actually work that way, and if someone had “stepped on a butterfly”, it would not impact the future because they had already stepped on the butterfly before they left for the past; history has to be consistent.
I would like to make a modest proposal: We are all living in our own parallel universe.
When my wife pronounced them Berenstain Bears, I thought it was analogous to how she pronounces the president’s name “Oh’bamm’ah” rather than “Oh’bomb’ah”). So imagine my surprise when I notice the spelling.
Which is doubly problematic. That means that not only am I from a timeline alternate to the current one, but my wife is from this timeline. It’s almost enough to make me question our basic compatibility.
Oh lord, adult opinions on children’s books. Let me start this way, remember the children’s cartoon Barney. Giant purple dinosaur, goofy songs, lots of lovey talk. Some people hated it, they said it was consedning or to gooey or simplistic. Those people were Wrongy McWrongpant.
It was made of frickin toddlers. It was perfect for the kids it was aimed at…sweet, loving, silly with lots of big colorful characters. Side note, my son loved Barney. It is like dry white toast to adults. But it was a kiddy show for kids at their level. It didn’t have adult references or pop culture nods or double entendre. It was just a kids show for little kids, which some adults just could not stand.
So Dr. Suess. How do people not get it. He made up words, so what, that is what kids do. They play with language and sounds, that is part of how they learn. Play = learning for kids. Give them books that allow them to play with words and they are learning. All the grammar is correct. If you can understand Dr. S books, you can learn english. Why does some dizz brain think kids need an explanation of what a Trufula Tree is, there is picture of it right there. Some adults have so lost how kids think or imagine there precious little snowflake just has to more adult and cool then all those other kids. Achhh people.
Oh the B Bears were fine.Report
Seconded. Lately Bug loves a show called Plim-Plim – so freaking annoying, but it’s not for me, it’s for a 3 year old.
As for Seuss, again I agree with Greg, how can these folks not get it? All language is made up. It’s not like physics where words are discovered through experimentation and once determined, are universal law. Language is always made up. If Bug dreams up a new word, I merely ask him what it is/means, and if it’s good, we run with it until he gets bored of it. He understands the difference between real & pretend well enough that Seuss doesn’t throw him.
Serious lack of imagination in people…Report
I’ll echo this too. The most bizarre sentence in any of the quotes was “Then when my kids start making up words I have to be the bad guy and shoot them down.” Why on earth would you do that? Imagination is good/healthy.
Seuss is brilliant at crafting clever narratives with simple words that captivate kids. That’s good, and I say that as someone who has read Cat in the Hat ~50 times this summer.Report
Yes, the kids started using words like “skepticism” and “rationality” and “totalitarian”, and I had to parentspeak “wrongtalk doublebad”.Report
Intelligent people use words carefully and correctly. it’s only dufuses like Shakespeare, Lewis Carroll, and James Joyce that feel the need to make new ones up.Report
Yes, my kids loved Barney. For about 18 months, they were nuts for anything Barney. I just wished I didn’t have be involved in Barney. Give me Blue’s Clues any day over Barney. Of course, later it was two Pokemon movies and then Power Rangers. Those had their moments, more than Barney, but on the whole, not meant for me.Report
Wouldn’t you and your kids inevitably do that regardless of Suess setting the example first?Report
Yes, it’s completely natural which is why Suess works so well. He just doing a thing kids already do and enjoy.Report
@vikram-bath
The issue isn’t that we need Seuss so kids will do that but we need not ban Seuss because we fear having to police kids doing it. They will do it regardless of Seuss and, more importantly, it is a GOOD thing to do.Report
Let me start this way, remember the children’s cartoon Barney. Giant purple dinosaur, goofy songs, lots of lovey talk. Some people hated it, they said it was consedning or to gooey or simplistic.
There are actually legit reasons to dislike Barney. For one, anyone who wanted to do anything different from the group was always always always wrong.Report
Oh please. It was a little kids show, not an attempt to parse out every possibility of interactions and groups.Report
When every single interaction of that sort is a lesson of ‘You must conform to the group’, that kinda is relevant.Report
My daughters still refer to themselves as Thing One and Thing Two, from The Cat In The Hat. I have adopted this for the internet. We are a Seuss-positive household. Mostly because we were quite confident in their language skills, and liked introducing some playfulness. If reading is fun, they will want to do more of it, was our thinking. Also, mastery of language means not only understanding the rules, but also understanding when. To Break. Them.Report
My daughter is fully aware that she has books I do not like to read to her, and in at least some cases why I do not like them.
I have explained my specific reasons where they are within her grasp – if she asks me why I don’t like it, I try to explain. Sometimes she gets my objections, when they center on something she can understand, like crappy gender roles (I do not like that the female characters are powerless, stuck in the kitchen, and preoccupied with unimportant things, and sit around waiting for me to do solve their problems). It turns out my objection to some other books don’t convey so well, e.g. the complete disjointedness / lack of story of her Dora the Explorer book (that, it turns out, is a straight rendering of an actual episode of the show – it’s not just the book that’s so badly written). I have still told her that I do not enjoy that particular book, so while I will read it to her from time to time, it will not enter daily circulation.
Likewise, she gets to tell me if she does not like a particular book, and articulate her reasons if she feels like it.
We discuss these things. Why ever would we not?Report
(…)preoccupied with unimportant things, and sit around waiting for <strikeme men to do solve their problems (…)Report
I think people who dislike Dr. Seuss are the worst kind of people.Report
So glad you and I agree.Report
I just have to say that making up words is an art form and something humans have been doing forever.
I defend Seuss; coinage isn’t limited to mints.
As to the bears, I’m on record here repeatedly: they clunk in the mouth, and reading them was torture. While I didn’t censor them, they went to the shelf of, “if you want to read this stuff, do it yourself.” Didn’t know about the naming confusion; don’t know if it qualifies for space-time rift; but I suppose that’s because it’s not my name.
And yes, much of children’s literature is horrid. My first reading materials were Dick and Jane. (Really.) It’s probably little wonder I didn’t gain fluency until 5th grade, being dyslexic. (By 6th, I was reading on a college level and retaining something like 85% of it. They thought I’d cheated, to retested me several times.)Report
I’m not going to claim to be an expert on the Berenstain Bears, but it seems to me that there are at least two different types of books for them (maybe from different career phases, or perhaps even written by ghostwriters?)
The first type are pretty much straight-up physical comedy – these tend to be the rhyming books, and the artwork and coloring is usually excellent. In these, usually Papa Bear tries to do something (take the family camping, or go on a picnic, or teach them safety at the beach or how to ride a bike) and continually fails in a series of painful mishaps. I don’t mind these at all, these are classic comedy in a Wile E. Coyote vein, and even if they are not super-original like Seuss, the execution is top-notch.
The second type tend to be prose, and are much more didactic, with explicit lessons (be careful of stranger danger, don’t eat too much junk food, don’t tell lies, don’t be greedy) that are sometimes pretty overtly Christian in theme. To my eye, the artwork is also much less detailed and elaborate.
These latter are, for obvious reasons, much less “fun” to read – but still have gotten some mileage around here, when we refer back to them to talk to the kids about various lessons (“no, I think we’ve had enough junk food for today…remember what happened to Brother and Sister Bear?”)Report
Curious George has a dichotomy. Kind of. Some of the books were good “We’re going to show you what going to the hospital is like”… but a lot of them are by-the-numbers “It doesn’t matter how much trouble you get in to, you will get a puppy in the end.”Report
Well, “Curious George” is a brand exploited in a lot of different ways. The originals certainly have some troublesome issues (including “Yay, a man captured me!” and “Yay, now I get to have a balloon in a zoo!”). The later ones are either new authors or adapted TV shows, and have only passing ties to the original stories.Report
Also worth checking out: John Titor.
I’ve heard a rumor that a Disney movie is even in the works.Report
Truffula trees *are* actually sort of a thing now though. They are a fictional thing, but they are still a culturally important thing to know about. Fairies aren’t real either. I think it’d be weird to try and bring up a child who had never heard of them though.Report
Argh! All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe!Report
I think Chris passed out on his keyboard.Report
He needs a snicker snackReport
Maybe L’il Sweet can save him.Report
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe!Report
Ha! I was just thinking, “what did these adults do when they read Carroll or Joyce?”Report
Well at least someone knows I’m not drunk! 😉Report
That would be some pretty epic drunk typing.Report
If Joyce, they probably blush.Report
The idea that kids in Seuss’s target audience shouldn’t make up words is wrong. No one has to be the “bad guy.”Report
Children shouldn’t be reading books about nonsense. They ought to be learning Moral Truths.Report
Now that would really diminish future SCOTUS opinions, don’t you think?Report
Recognizing this is sarcasm, Mrs. N has a sister who married someone who refuses to read any fiction. Basically for that reason.Report
I’ve known several people who don’t read any fiction whatsoever. It always strikes me as odd, but I suppose I understand it on some level. To me, it would make life much, much less interesting.Report
Do they never watch tv? never play a story-like video game?
I’ve known people too busy to read, or ones that find it frankly hard to do so, and so I understand not always reading fiction…Report
I dunno.Report
I knew someone like this as well. It was an issue of imagination; he was honestly not able to picture anything other than “Where I Am Right Now”. He enjoyed TV, even obviously fictional things like Star Trek; he said that with TV it was like he was looking through a window at things that were really happening. (He didn’t like movies because it was hard to do that on a large projection screen.)Report
If you do not partake of fiction, you cannot possibly understand modern human beings.Report
Do they watch Fox News?Report
So we should read them Homer? “Sing Goddess of the wrath of Achiles.”Report
If we have no choice but starting with stuff that was written that recently, then we have no choice but starting with stuff that was written that recently.Report
“All right,” said Susan. “I’m not stupid. You’re saying humans need… fantasies to make life bearable.”
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
“Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—”
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
“So we can believe the big ones?”
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
“They’re not the same at all!”
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME…SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
“Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what’s the point—”
MY POINT EXACTLY.”
From the late Sir PratchettReport
Just got to that book on my post-death pass through Discworld.Report
I approve.Report
“my post-death pass through Discworld”
I see you are staying active in this new phase of your, um, life 😉Report
Join the Fresh Start Club!Report
Next time through, you’ll do post-Guards?Report
I suppose there are always complainers.
Wouldn’t Dr. Suess help with imagination or creativity? Is someone going to chime in about how Dr. Suess does not help kids for today’s corporate world?
I went to a talk a few years ago by a specialist in child psychology. She said the reason 2-3 year olds can watch the same movie (or hear the same book) over and over again is that they basically can’t retain the information like adults. So say you are reading a book to Lain for 20 minutes, she might only retain 5.Report
Good point, @saul-degraw . The funny thing is, this is still true of adults! How many people re-watch a movie or re-read a book not just because they enjoy it, but because they find something new or different about it with each endeavor? This is generally true of deeper works. They’ll pick up on new symbolism or a different character’s development or whathaveyou. That is how almost every book is for kids. How lucky they are!Report
When I was in high school, a couple of my babysitting charges were 2 & 5. One of their favorite movies was Aladdin, and it was so much fun to watch the 2 yr old be surprised by the movie again and again.
I particularly remember one of the first scenes, when Aladdin and Abu are in the cave, and Abu takes a gem from a statue that results in them getting trapped in the cave. The 2 yr old would watch, on the edge of her seat as he reached for the gem, yelling at Abu, “Don’t do it, Abu, don’t do it!” followed by sad slumping back onto the couch, “Ah, he did it!” Obviously she knew the movie, but also obvious was that she didn’t necessarily think it would always be the same, or that she couldn’t influence the characters.Report
One of my greatest joys in life was coming across a rumor that Raymond Chandler and Theodor Geisel were drinking buddy’s. Don’t care if it is true or not.
Dr Seuss gives kids the gift and joy of language, poetry. Not the rule bound dictates of the MLA class and it’s nefarious army of grammarians. Bashibazooks, the lot of them.Report
That one is good, but nothing beats the rumor that Oscar Wilde while visiting America had a tryst with Walt Whitman. That one even has some factual support.Report
Dude, that’s plausible AND fun!Report
To make one more point about the genius that is Seuss…
Those who have read Seuss, have you EVER had a hard time pulling the meaning of the nonsense, made up word from the context? Have you ever had a tough time picturing the made-up things he creates, even if there isn’t a picture, or identifying the made up thing in the picture, based just upon the name?
I’d argue Seuss is teaching reading comprehension with subtlety.Report
Yeah exactly. The only people who wouldn’t understand would be sort of dim or unimaginative adults. Kids can learn new words easily and effortlessly. Learning the grammar and “sense” of a language is all there in Suess.Report
He simply stands as one of the great titans of children’s literature; the master about who’s feet most of the more common offerings wash in and out with the tides.Report
In the hopes that what goes around comes around, here are some more modern books that we’ve had great success with:
Hiccupotamus
I’m a Big Sister! (Can’t emphasize enough how much this helped)
Dragons love tacos (best concept there is “tummy troubles”, next best is eating tomatoes/lettuce “like a dragon”)
The Gruffalo (and its surprisingly-solid sequel)
And, randomly, she simply CANNOT get enough of this random library book-sale purchase.
All things Sandra Boynton (not brand new, but post-Seuss)
The Maisy books (though they drive me nutty reading)Report
Ditto on Boynton. She is since I was of an age, and therefore new to me when I had kids. They were among my favorites for the younger age. The kids seemed to like them, too.
The pickings get thicker a few years older. My seven-year old has read and re-read The Wonderful Wizard of Oz many times.Report
In the hopes that what goes around comes around, here are some more modern books that we’ve had great success with:
Hiccupotamus
I’m a Big Sister! (Can’t emphasize enough how much this helped)
Dragons love tacos (best concept there is “tummy troubles”, next best is eating tomatoes/lettuce “like a dragon”)
The Gruffalo (and its surprisingly-solid sequel)
And, randomly, she simply CANNOT get enough of this random library book-sale purchase.
All things Sandra Boynton (not brand new, but post-Seuss)
The Maisy books (though they drive me nutty reading)
(repost to avoid over-linking based moderation)Report
I will second Sandra Boynton, she rocks.Report
If you think Seuss ruined the industry, you haven’t read Mo Willems.
The ‘Gerald and Piggy’ books are genuinely hilarious, though will be beyond Lain right now.
The Pigeon books are likewise incredible and she’ll be ready for those a little earlier than G&P.
But right now is PRIME ‘Knuffle Bunny’ time. She won’t get it fully (see @saul-degraw ‘s point above) but she’ll get it enough that it will probably quickly become a favorite. And by the time she is 4 and you fell like you can’t read it ever again, she’ll be ready for ‘Knuffle Bunny Too’.Report
Cool! I’ll add Bunny to our list and see how it goes. Have never heard of this author.Report
B. R. I. L. L. I. A. N. T. And note… It’s Will-ems… Not Williams. He has other books but they’re mostly for the PreK/K set… Edwina – The Dinosaur Who Didn’t Know She Was Extinct, Leonardo The Terrible Monster… Ugh… All so good.Report
knuffle bunny is pretty good stuff. it does pander to parents pretty hard, but does not fail to deliver.
also a big fan of room on the broom. check it.
not a huge fan of all the branded lego tie-in stories, but i am not the audience here.Report
Knuffle does pander but it also taps into a real childhood emotion. And slightly older kids DIE during the baby talk (if you sell it, that is… SELL IT, PEOPLE!).Report
i agree, but i also am fully aware when reading it that it’s pandering to a certain demographic. that makes me like it less in some ways, but there’s only so much you can expect from park slope.Report
Corduroy
by Don Freeman was a big hit here. We check out a number of books from the library, and they are mostly all superficial, which I don’t take as necessarily bad for a children’s book. Corduroy, however, is very meaningful, felt like a punch to the stomach to me, and most importantly is a story that the littlest Bath really liked.Report
Don Freeman! I loved his books when I was little. Checked out every one of them from my grade school library.Report
We all know that the real reason why the National Review is against Dr. Seuss is because he was a Communist.Report
His Butter Battle book was brilliant. It can still give me a slight chill at the end of the pages even now.Report
We’re not huge fans of that one. In compliment to Lee’s observation, we sort of look askance when Seuss got too political.
I still need to do my post on the political sub-messaging of Seuss.Report
It’s for older children; not toddlers, I think.
When you get to that age where Lain’s asking difficult questions about war and why war, and hunger and why hunger, it’s a pretty useful way to open the box and discuss.Report
I can sort of see that. Though its salience seems tied to the Cold War. Which, hopefully, we will not be in a sequel of by the time that comes.Report
The Prisoner’s Dilemma is always relevant.Report
Based on how things are going in Muslim-majority countries and with ISIL, we are well on our way towards a repeat of the Cold War. Only our enemies do not even have moving, Enlightenment based goals anymore.Report
And yet obama keeps importing them.Report
Well the post about Dr. Suess turned dark and went off the rails. Is nothing sacred?Report
@will-truman, Before he was a well-loved children’s author, Dr. Seuss did political cartoons for a New York-based Communist News Paper called P.M. You can buy a collection of his World War II era cartoons including probably some of the earliest cartoons about the Holocaust.
I know I’m not really supposed to feel this way but old school socialists give me warm and fuzzy feelings because of their earnestness. As much as I get pissed at Communists in power, Communist advocates out of power are moving.Report
He also illustrated beer ads. Seriously. Google on ‘Seuss beer ad’. They are… startling.Report
I always loved it when Seuss got political, something about the idea of deeper stories to his stories fascinated me as a youngster.Report
When the oldest of the nephews of the tribe was born, I picked up a collected edition of the Babar books, which I loved so very much as a child.
AND LIKE THE BODY COUNT IS TWO ELEPHANTS BEFORE WE GET FIVE PAGES INTO THE STORY
I had totally forgotten that.
Also how it was kind of a defense of colonialism. I didn’t really catch that in the 70’s either.
Anyway, I think I can tentatively recommend those because, hey. Elephants.
Little kids love elephants.Report
Sambo was one of my favorite books as a child. That’s decidedly inconvenient.Report
“Oh, we don’t carry _Little Black Sambo_ anymore. We do have _The Boy and the Tigers_ if you really want something to read.” (Long wink.)Report
Little Rajani.Report
Mine and my Sweetie, too.
And Pick A Bale of Cotton, sung downeast. Like, clap on one and three. I love it.Report
Barbar is racist as shit. So is the original Rin Tin Tin shit. It is really quite scary.Report
In my opinion, in children’s books today there’s nowhere near enough being carried away off into the sky, never to be seen again; having one thumbs snipped off by a strange man-creature wielding gigantic scissors; or accidental self-immolation from playing with matches – in rhyme:
Those are some devout cats. I’d expect them to be going “Yawn, the authorities kitten is on fire… got any catnip?”Report
Actually, the translation is rather free. The original German stresses how attached the little cats, left there to cry helplessly, must have been to little Paulina.Report
I’ve never seen a group of German men laugh so hard as when they try to explain Smurfs.Report
It’s something I always wished I’d taken an academic interest in. My working theory is that children’s stories are the clearest insight into what a society really worries about. 500 years ago, you worried that you’d be dead tomorrow. So you scared children shitless in an effort to keep them from being dead.
Now we worry about being rude/unpopular/whatever so we write stories about how to be nice and polite.Report
There’s an indian version of cinderella where the ending is merely that the village got fed and nobody went hungry that night. It wasn’t a feast, it was just a good meal.Report
There’s another one about whale migration that I am not a big fan of,
Yeah, the term “anchor calf” is just wrong.Report