No one is forced to spend their Friday nights on Pornhub, but it's weird how things turn out when you are alone and horny. So I will ask again, when some 20 year-old kid ends up mainlining Fox News or Trump's speeches on CSPAN...is he going to be more likely to commit a mass shooting?

Chip,

I asked you above to provide some data on how many mass shootings were due to racism and misogyny. You linked to a couple of articles, but as dark matter points out, you are trying to add your own pet issue between the lines. As he says, that they are white males is beyond dispute (there is a reason for that, but it's not white supremacy). That they are angry is probably also beyond dispute. You were doing fine on both counts until you jumped to , "...who feel that their rightful place in society has been usurped, and they want to right this injustice with violence." That was you taking creative liberties. Please try again.

Saul, you are welcome to whatever agenda you want. You've already stated that you don't think you need Centrists and moderate conservatives to get elected. Good luck with that strategy.

I would rather vote for AOC than Calipari. If I did a write-in it would probably be Mitch Daniels. God, he would have been good.

Again, reach out to groups that aren't political but are politics-adjacent (they all engage in lobbying, etc). We call it 'trail head diplomacy'. Build trust, move forward from there.

For what it's worth, nearly all of my close coworkers are gun guys, but none of them hunt except me. I brought up the idea of a federal permit yesterday and they all balked at it. It's going to be an uphill climb with that crew.

Thanks! It will be the first time since 1999 that I have had a (D) next to my name. It will be nice to actually participate in the primaries.

Democrats haven't put forward a plan that I would get behind. No need to open floor debates so they can all grandstand (I watched the Mueller hearing).

And the state chapters of the outdoors groups are focused on public lands issues and a current problem we are having with the Fish & Wildlife department. They aren't going to get involved without some trust-building first. That isn't going to happen overnight.

You're the perfect one to ask because you make that information 'easily available'. I would argue that your brave to post here under your real name but it's also reasonable to expect these conversations to remain here at OT. Me putting them on a billboard crosses into doxxing IMO.

I'm all for transparency. But I'm also for not using platforms to amplify what is already out there, especially in a negative way.

Our local political cartoonist gets plenty of letters to the editor complaining about his cartoons. I like his work, but obviously it's meant to be provocative so push back is to be expected. A few weeks ago a guy sent a letter to the paper that was published, and the cartoonist perceived the letter as racist. So he used his Facebook page to point people's attention to it. Needless to say, they said some not so nice things and a few people said they knew the guy and were going to make sure others knew about what he said. THAT was crossing the line.

Playing around with social media and signal boosting is a very dangerous game that I have zero tolerance for.

I don't know but I am good with that. I've been doxxed before and it was horrible. They threatened my kids and my job. I don't take this stuff lightly.

So you leave political comments on a public chatboard. If I choose to put up a billboard near your neighborhood with some choice quotes, have I don anything wrong?

I get that the information is available, but putting that information on blast and then doing the 'what me?' routine is juvenile at best.

Since I resemble those remarks - let me just say that I sent in my paperwork to register as a Democrat for the Kentucky primaries next year. My wife and I have donated to two different Democratic presidential candidates so far and I'm engaging with their campaigns. I've very serious about considering all of them and I will vote for the one I think is the best next spring.

Whether or not they will get my general election vote is a whole other thing. And to be honest, I'm starting to think third party isn't a great option either because I'm holding my nose with the libertarian candidates too (sorry Jaybird!). As someone suggested, leaving that section of my ballot blank might end up being the most principled thing I can do.

If it's easily available then why is he amplifying it to his social media followers?

I didn't say that, but you have been spending a lot of digital ink telling all of the conservatives that we are going to vote for Trump and we will always 'Republican'. Jesse is far more liberal than you, but it seems like you're kind of experimenting with being an angry liberal and not just a Left Coast elitist, so that's cool I guess. Sometimes it's fun to role-play.

Technically I am an ambivert ( I feel so cool having an edgy label!)

https://www.scienceofpeople.com/ambivert/

Generally I like being around people and it energizes me, but I also really value my alone time and the idea of having the house to myself for a couple of days and not setting foot out the front door is pretty awesome too. My job forces me to be extroverted at work, but in my personal life I make a really conscious effort to always be involved with at least a couple of different groups that force me to be social. Right now it’s the pointing breeds club and my disc golf league. It would be very easy for me to spend all day on social media so I need that balance.

Criticizing and doxxing are not the same things.

"Given we know that Russia seems to enjoy messing with America at various levels, I wonder if they aren’t jumping into these various forums and helping to dial things up to 11 until someone pops."

If we're speculating about which OT commenters are Russian agents, I have some thoughts...

I understand your point, but again, this is barely moving the needle on gun deaths, but expending tons of political capital to do it.

I'd be okay with shifting the focus away from types of guns completely and looking at proposals that would apply across the board. Federal gun permits are the best place to start IMO.

I'm not suggesting that Saul is an exemplar. To the contrary, I think most liberals are completely reasonable on the idea of voting one's conscience. But still, these are the things we have been told and not just by Saul, so there is at least a vocal element of the Left already making their list of people to blame if things don't go their way next year.

I was just thinking of the VA Tech shooter as well. Ban assault weapons and people will just use other guns. This is where again, there's so much lack of knowledge on one side of the aisle, and so much lack of responsibility on the other.

It's very easy to get all kinds of information these days Saul (especially if you know someone's real name). That doesn't necessarily mean you need to share it in a public way meant to spark outrage. Let's not pretend that this was just some innocent thing he did.

And just so I am clear, I would be just as appalled if a Republican had done it.

That's actually not how root cause analysis works.

From the OP:

"But, and I cannot emphasise this enough, you are under no obligation to vote for one of the main parties...If you can’t stomach the Democratic nominee, but are unwilling to tolerate Trump then look elsewhere."

Several of us have expressed the sentiment on this site that we will vote third party if the Dems don't nominate a candidate we can support. We have been told that voting for a third party candidate is an endorsement of Trump despite this:

"A total of 138 million people voted in the 2016 US election, the human brain cannot comprehend a number as small as 1/138 million. To give you some context for your odds of changing the election result, 37,461 people died in road accidents in the US in 2016, representing a bit over 102 deaths per day. It is almost certainly the case that many more people died in road accidents going to the polls than actually affected the result. For you to believe your vote has an appreciable affect on the result of the election, you would also have to believe that you are in serious danger of death travelling to get there."

We have also been told that everyone knows we're all going to end up supporting Team Red in the end or that we just want the Dems to embrace an older GOP platform. Well, yeah, that's sort of how politics work. You look for a candidate you have some agreement with and pull the lever. But I think the proof here is that folks like Saul don't really see this election as a referendum on the Democratic platform. It's a referendum on Trump. He wants us to give the Dems a pass on actually having good ideas this time because they are Not Trump. I'm not sure if he has just so embraced the idea of Trump being an existential threat that he doesn't care what the other side actually wants to do, or if he's trying to backdoor a Democrat into the Oval Office. Either way...gross.

"No wonder we have such a hard time relating to other people. It’s hard to see another person’s point of view when you’ve gone to so much trouble to craft your own – and to make sure that nothing unpleasant wanders into it!"

I was on a walking tour of an area of Louisville recently that was once filled with German-American families (my relatives among them). The main employer there was a large textile mill. Everyone lived within a few blocks and the neighborhood was also filled with pubs and every house had a front porch on which you would visit with your neighbors. So people talked on the way to work, on the way home from work, at the pub, on their front porches, etc. Someone also made a point that it was also a lot easier for union organizers back then because you could easily talk to workers as they were coming to and from work. Once that stopped, unions began their long decline.

It's unpopular because the Left keeps having unserious conversations about assault weapons when every gun guy knows handguns are responsible for the overwhelming majority of gun deaths. And even when they talk assault weapons, it's abundantly clear they have no idea what they are talking about. They are wasting what little political capital they have while being laughed out of the room.

Basically, liberals need some kind of gun mentors that will hold their hand through this conversation, but it also might mean a tactical retreat temporarily while they put together an actual plan. It doesn't help that all of your presidential candidates are out there blasting 20 different messages on social media in the wake of this past weekend. Go to any of their social media pages and read the comments. THIS is why there is no movement on the issue.

Also, see George's reply for the urban gun crime rebuttal. I'll just cosign what he said. Every time you all hand-wave away urban crime I find it hard to even take this conversation seriously.

I don't know if I would vote for Gabbard today, but I do like her and I think she is having the right conversation with regards to foreign policy. These supposed adults that insist you confront problematic world leaders when you meet with them have either never been in a leadership position themselves or simply believe that emotions are the most important factor in foreign policy. I'd love to see her as Secretary of State.