The Conservaliberaltarian Case For Abidin’ With Biden
I don’t think my vote in this election will surprise many people. After all, if I could talk myself into voting for … ugh … Clinton back in 2016, I can certainly talk myself into voting for Biden in 2020. But as we close in on the finale to this election, which began an ice age ago, I thought I’d talk a bit1 about the thinking that went into this.
Of Deplorables, Antifa and the Worst of Politics
The reason I want to write about this is because I am not unaware of the concerns raised by Eric and Kristin about a potential Biden Administration. I don’t think that Biden is a panacea who will cure all that ails us. I do worry about the Progressive Wing working themselves into a lather over new states and court-packing. And I am well aware of the appalling behavior exhibited by some of Biden’s supporters and the failure of politicians to respond to these incursions with the urgency the situation requires. Indeed, I have written about it. I have not written specifically about wokist identity politics nonsense, but I’m pretty sure you can guess my opinion on it.
But here’s the thing: the Antifa thugs and Woke clowns are not where the bulk of Biden’s support is coming from. Had that been the case, he would not have been the nominee. Biden explicitly rejected identity politics in the primary and has repeatedly condemned the violence hitting the inner cities. And yet he won the primary overwhelmingly, based heavily on support in the black community.2
Moreover, vile behavior by supporters is not confined to the Far Left. Some of those supporting Trump have engaged in equally appalling behavior, from the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally to the shooting incident in Kenosha to an incident this weekend in which Trump supporters tried to run a Biden-Harris bus off the road. The Right might decry “identity politics” but their far fringe is engaging in it just as voraciously, only with white identity politics: anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim and mindlessly supportive of the police. And that’s excluding the really bad White Supremacists who shot up El Paso and Pittsburgh.
But here’s the thing: one of the more dangerous realities of the modern era is that we can always find bad people doing bad things and claim that it is what “they” are really like. And seeing that bad behavior encourages bad behavior in us. I know people — on both sides — who are reasonable, generous, kind, intelligent and open-minded — who have embraced insane political extremism and openly called for the ostracization of those who support the other side because “they” are so awful.3
If you support Trump, it doesn’t matter what your actual life is like; you are now in bed with his worst supporters. And if you support Biden, it doesn’t matter what your actual life is like; you are now in bed with his worst supporters. You are either a racist shitmonkey or a molotov-hurling radical; someone who thinks kids belong in cages or someone who thinks conservatives belong in re-education camps.
Fie to all that. I will not judge candidates by the behavior of his worst supporters. Because every politician has awful people supporting them. If you look hard enough (and sometimes you don’t have to look too hard), you will find your deplorables.4 But it you look closer, you will find that most of the candidates’ supporters are decent people, even if they do occasionally act like coke-binging spider monkeys.5
However …
I will affix some blame to a candidate for the behavior of his supporters if he actively encourages their worst instincts. And, in this case, Donald Trump is far worse than Joe Biden. The worst you can say about Biden is that he was slow to condemn rioting. He really wasn’t, but we’ll go with that. By contrast, Trump encourages the worst in both sides. From the “Mexico is sending rapists” to repeatedly bashing the “squad” of liberal Democratic women with racist dog whistles (or sometimes racist tubas), he constantly agitates his supporters to indulge their worst instincts, rather than their best. He’s encouraged rally attendees to beat protesters. He’s encouraged cops to beat suspects. In the post linked above, I pointed out that the police were acting badly too, attacking passersby and journalists on a regular basis. This rotten behavior has been embraced and cheered by the President. He whines like a baby any time something untoward happens to him or his supporters. But that doesn’t discourage him from, say, demonizing a governor who was just the subject of a kidnapping plot. Or hesitating to condemn the violence in Charlottesville.6 And he’s getting worse. He has encouraged his supporters to “watch the polls”, which has led to charges of voter intimidation.7 And last night, he praised the Texas supporters who surrounded the Biden bus.
And, frankly, I think Trump shares at least some the blame for the Left’s bad behavior. He has taken great delight in enraging his opponents. Indeed, this is what many of his supporters claim to like most about him. You can’t praise a president for “triggering” the Left and then act all surprised when the Left is … triggered.
This past summer of violence and mayhem is a perfect illustration of his failings in this regard. It could have gone very differently. When the Rodney King verdict was announced, LA exploded in flames. President Bush went on TV and made it absolutely clear that the rioting was unacceptable while still acknowledging that the underlying beef was legitimate. But that required a degree of empathy which came easily to President Bush but is alien to President Trump. There is plenty of blame to go around, mostly on the Democratic leaders of these cities who have responded to the riots with spectacular incompetence. But Trump is not innocent in this.8
As I said, I will not judge who to vote for based on the worst behavior of their supporters. I’ve been blogging a long time and gotten abuse and threats from the worst elements of both sides9. But if I did, that argument goes against Trump, not in favor of him.
We are all a mix of good and bad impulses. One of the duties of a politician is to encourage our better impulses — to encourage us to aspire, to be kind, to be generous, to work hard, to dream. That sentence may get be kicked out of the Third Tier Libertarian Pundits Club10 but it’s true. Our better Presidents have appealed to the better angels of our nature. Donald Trump … has not done that. He is incapable of doing that.
Two Men
But the real decision for me is the two men’s records. The record of Joseph Biden is … well, mixed would be generous. He has been a strong supporter of law enforcement, with all the excesses that has entailed. His party has a poor record on regulation, a tendency to cave in to labor unions and a foreign policy philosophy that is best described as “Republican, only more so.” Trump does have a point that Biden has been in Washington a long time and has made some poor decisions.
But Joe Biden is also a decent human being. The mistakes he has made — and they have been many — have been born of legitimate concerns. He made friends with segregationists in the 70s but the Dem coalition up until then was forged on a weird alliance between progressives and segregationists. And some of the achievements of which Democrats are most proud — Social Security, for example — were a result of that unholy alliance. Yes, he supported the Crime Bill. But that was a response to an actual, massive surge in crime. By the late-80s and early-90s, our inner cities were coming apart in a wave of unparalleled violence and bloodshed. It’s easy to look back now and say it went too far. And it did. But, at the time, people were suffering and dying in numbers that make 2020’s surge of crime look like a day at the beach. And Biden has at least admitted that the crime bill might have been a mistake, something Trump has never done about, say, the Central Park Five.
I’m not giving him a pass on any of this, by the way. A politician owns his record, no matter how much he may try to flee it. But Biden is classic example of someone with whom I disagree on policy but not motives.
And when it comes to character, there is simply no comparison. There was a serious accusation of assault the emerged this summer. And Biden’s tendency to get handsy with women standing nearby is notorious and unacceptable. Hunter’s behavior in the Ukraine and China was poor. But Biden himself is not corrupt. You don’t have to go far to find people talking about his good character. We’ve seen him show empathy for people that is unimaginable in someone like Trump.
Biden also knows what it is like to endure pain. He raised two sons as a single dad after the horrific loss of his wife and daughter. He had to endure the early death of his beloved son Beau and watch his other son Hunter descend into the hell of substance abuse. And he has handled those challenges — enough for two lifetimes — with decency.
I know that sounds like I’m praising Biden. But it only sounds like praise because basic human decency has been in short supply for the last few years. It’s not that Biden is a great man; it’s that he’s normal. He has good tendencies and bad ones, features and flaws, strengths and weaknesses.
Trump, by contrast, is a malignant narcissist, a man who sees the universe as revolving entirely around him. Loyalty in his administration is oriented toward him personally, not toward the country. He rages and thunders against anyone who disputes him. He fawns all over anyone who praises him. He is consumed with his own ego and besotted with his own vanity. He heaps praise upon bloodthirsty despots like Putin, Kim and Duterte because they know how to flatter his ego. And he derides leaders like Macron, Trudeau and Merkel because they won’t. He goes out every day to rage tweet, spread falsehoods and rile both opponents and supporters into a frenzy. And his personal history is littered with infidelities, sexual assaults, ripping off business partners, abusing eminent domain and racial discrimination. Of the Seven Deadly Sins, Trump is guilty of about twelve.
And, yes, this matters. For the last four years, defenders of Trump have been saying, “Oh, you just don’t like him because he’s crude and obnoxious. Pay attention to what he’s actually doing!” And I’ve been pointing out that what he’s doing — abusing his power, turning the DOJ into his personal hit squad, running up the debt, igniting trade wars, abandoning our allies, letting the world slide into chaos, punishing immigrants — is bad enough.
But I’m going to shift gears here for just moment. Because having an obnoxious, boorish, syphilitic, pussy-grabbing lout as President is not OK. Even putting aside that some of his worst behavior and biggest policy failures have flowed directly from his awful character, I’m tired of pretending that policy — as important as that is — subsumes everything else. Character matters. Behavior matters. Decency matters. A president without even the most basic of these things is a cancer upon our government, our nation and our society.
No, we shouldn’t look to the president to model our behavior. But the reality is that millions of people do. Millions of Republicans now act as though open racism and demeaning of opponents is acceptable, even if they are not themselves racist or mean-spirited. Because that is the example is being set.
On the Record
Now maybe if Trump’s record were great, you could stomach that. I can’t, but let’s play that game. Trump’s record is not and never has been great. His great economy, which was mostly a continuation of the Obama economy, was propped up by deficit spending and easy Federal Reserve money. It was going to crash just like the supposedly good economy of the 1970s –propped up by inflation — was going to crash. The COVID crisis simply hastened the demise.
And the more you look at it, the more his “great record” crumbles to ash. He has “stood up to China”; but China’s power is waxing and our trade deficit just set a record. He has “made our NATO allies pay”; but that process started under Obama and Trump’s boorishness has only caused the alliance — one of the most important elements of the Pax Americana we have enjoyed for 75 years — to fray. He has “confronted Iran”; but they have resumed their nuclear program after he stupidly backed out of a treaty they were compliant with. He has “rolled back regulations”; but only ones keeping our air and water clean or our workers safe. When it came to one of the most important regulations — the one keeping private industry from developing their own COVID tests — he floundered.
And that brings me to the ultimate failure. When Donald Trump was elected, my greatest fear was the he would be faced with a crisis — a war, an economic collapse or a pandemic — and he would fail. As I said in my post on why Bush was a better President Trump
Things are going pretty well right now. But the pieces of a disaster — trade wars, diplomatic chaos, swelling deficit — are already in place. What happens when things stop going so well? I can easily see, in 2020 or 2024, the United States being in a far worse position than we were in 2008: a second Great Depression, a potential default on the debt, another war or three.
Well, we’ve seen what happened. He threw out our safeguards. He panicked. He lied about the seriousness of it. He couldn’t stay on message. He pressured federal agencies to lie. He demonstrated a shocking lack of empathy for people getting sick or watching loved ones perish. And now he’s out there — when we are well into a third wave and COVID is hitting record levels of infections — holding big political rallies and encouraging people not to fear the virus.
Trump’s signature success is the judges he has appointed (and, notably, the part of his presidency he completely farmed out to outsiders). But I don’t consider this to be a huge mark of triumph. While I favor a conservative judiciary, I do not favor a partisan one and a number of the judges he has appointed are unqualified and issuing opinions that read more like Fox News screeds than legal writings. And this may come to a head in the next few days. One of the reasons for the undue haste with which Barrett was approved — stated openly — was the hope that a conservative SCOTUS would rule for Trump on any election disputes (and he’s already raging about a few instances where they haven’t).
There is a tremendous danger in this. Andrew Jackson once said, “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it”. He then proceeded, in defiance of a Court decision, to carry out one of the worst ethnic cleansings in American history. Judges don’t actually have any power. Their ability to decide cases rests on their legitimacy and the willingness of people to submit to their authority. If the judiciary begins to be seen as partisan, if they issue a series of rulings that throws the election to Donald Trump, their legitimacy will be shot. The signature feat of Trump’s reign will not be a conservative judiciary but one that is ignored and derided by much of the country for being nothing more than a vehicle of the politicians. That is incredibly dangerous.
We can speculate on what a Biden administration might do. And I think they will do a lot of dumb stuff. I expect to oppose them 70% of the time. And I worry that the press will go to sleep on him (although Fox News will still exist). But we don’t have to speculate about a what a Trump Administration will do. We’ve already seen it. And it has been a generational disaster.
It will get worse. Trump has purged his Administration of all the decent people — Kelly, Mattis, Haley — who were holding him back. He has kept the awful people — Miller, Barr, Kushner — who encourage him to indulge his worst instincts. If Trump is re-elected, he will see it as a vindication of every way he has abused power for the last four years and an enticement to do worse. He has already made his priorities for the next four years clear: a DOJ that goes after his political enemies while ignoring blatant corruption by his allies; an open attack on legal immigration; a continued floundering response to COVID-19; more trade wars; more rallies; more power and less accountability for police.
You’re going to have to go a long way to convince me that Law and Order Biden — part of an Administration that pushed a Republican healthcare plan through and cut the budget deficit in half — is worse than that. From the very beginning, we said that Biden was the mainstream alternative to radicals like Sanders and Warren. You can’t turn around now and proclaim that, oops, Biden was the true radical all along.
“But!” you say, “OK, Biden has been pretty mainstream, I’ll grant you. But he’s 78. Kamala Harris may become president and she’s so radical!” Is she, though? Kamala Harris was a prosecutor in California and one that was anything but progressive. She draws her strongest support from law enforcement and Silicon Valley. Yes, she initially embraced Medicare for All, but she quickly dropped it like a hot potato. That’s because she is who she is — high on flash, low on substance, ignorant of policy and ultimately beholden to fairly normal business interests. A Kamala Harris presidency would be “radical” in the same sense that putting pepperjack cheese on your burger is radical.
Moreover, the Democrats are a bag of cats. The idea that this party can unite behind a radical agenda, or indeed any agenda, is laughable. The last time they had the House, a filibuster-proof Senate majority and a fairly liberal president, their big achievement that radically remade the country was … Obamacare. That is, a big gift to insurance companies that, coincidentally, expanded insurance to millions of people. They haven’t changed, no matter how much anyone tries to convince you otherwise. Their agenda, such as it is, is far more likely to be set by Joe Manchin than AOC.
In the End
What really jumps out at me as I write these words is how much this all goes back to character, the thing we’ve pretended doesn’t matter in politics. It’s easy to see why we would think so. After, all, Bill Clinton was a successful president and had the sexual ethics of a Delta Tau Chi party combined with the subtle discretion of a whoopee cushion. But there’s character and there’s character. Most politicians are bad. Power corrupts. But some are far worse than others.
I believe that power and money place stress on a person. Any vessel will crack under that pressure. Haven’t seen a president yet who couldn’t be petty and venal at times. But a flawed vessel will not just crack; it will shatter. Trump has always been a flawed vessel. And the result has been an absolute moral inversion inflicted upon this country. Under Donald Trump, down is up, left is right, right is wrong and wrong is right. Consider what we are told every day by this president and his vast media support machine:
- Massive open corruption is “draining the swamp”. Going after said corruption is deep state treason.
- As long as you’re loyal to Donald Trump, selling your country out to another country is no burden to being a “true patriot”. But you can literally carry shrapnel in your body and be called a traitor because you’ve tried to blow the whistle on corruption.
- Barack Obama, who never had a whiff of personal scandal, was a moral plague on the nation. Donald Trump — who has five children by three wives; boasted about sexually assaulting women and bursting in on teenage beauty contestants; a corrupt venal man who has abused his wealth to silence critics and used government power to enrich himself — is the moral and spiritual leader of the nation.
- Making stories up out of whole cloth is real news. Reporting on abuses of power is fake news.
- A man who gets COVID-19 because of irresponsible behavior but survives it thanks to a team of elite doctors and medicines unavailable to the public is praised for his strength. Those who die of it — say this man, a heroic doctor who caught it trying to desperately save a patient’s life — are “the weak”.
I don’t know how the election will go on Tuesday. Even if you believe the polls, the volume of mail-in and absentee ballots may mean we don’t know who won for a week or more. And even then, I expect massive legal challenges. God help us if SCOTUS decides the election by throwing out thousands of votes.
But Donald Trump can not be elected to a second term. I say this not from that tiny liberal flare in my heart. I don’t say it from the libertarian streak down my back. I say it from my conservative mind and spirit. The damage he has done to this nation — to our institutions, to our dialogue, to our politics, to our media and to actual people — is enough. The craziness that has now engulfed our political world is something he has actively encouraged and amplified. Maybe Biden isn’t the cure to what ails our body politic. But at least he won’t be gnawing on the bones.
- Ok, a lot.
- It turns out, black people don’t want their cities burned down either.
- The first place I heard this was Limbaugh’s show, when he told a caller that her Obama-supporting friends weren’t really her friends and had never been her friends.
- I would like to say I learned this lesson by being smart, open-minded and generous of spirit. But I didn’t. I learned it because I spent years defending Ron Paul from accusations of racism. Paul had his flaws and did allow a number of racist morons into his orbit. But the attention he got from the likes of Stormfront was not his doing. The really real Nazi types are the barnacles of the political world, attaching themselves to any ship that bears the flag “outsider”. They attached themselves to Paul — that is, a man who wanted to expand immigration, end the War on Drugs and free thousands of mostly black people from prison. Once he faded, they glommed onto Trump. The failing of both men is that they didn’t brush the barnacles off their ships.
- A perfect illustration of the difference between how people perceive their political opponents and how they actually are: I work at a university and one that is well known for having a student body that leans a bit left in the same sense that the Titanic leaned a bit forward. I am frequently asked if my campus has “erupted” or if I am in fear of my life. And the question strikes me as bizarre since campus is fairly quiet. There have been BLM protests, but there has not been looting or smashing windows at all. The students have been engaged but mostly focused on their studies, especially in the Semester of COVID.
- Some of Trump’s supporters note that after his “very fine people” comment, he condemned the White Supremacists. Which would be fine, except that the rally was explicitly and openly White Supremacist. So there were no very fine people there to distinguish.
- In 2008, the Right Wing flipped out — rightfully so — about two jokers from the New Black Panthers intimidating voters. How times have changed.
- I would also argue that Trump bears some responsibility for the underlying problem or police brutality, given that he has encouraged cops to be violent, has revoked consent decrees that were agreed to by police departments with problems and has now proposed a “reform” that would make cops less accountable. Months before George Floyd died, the head of the police union praised Trump for “taking the handcuffs off” police.
- The worst was from Michael Moore supporters while Bush was President.
- Motto: mottos are fascist.
Biden 2012 was a different guy. Remember when he slaughtered Paul Ryan? Good times.
He seems to have slowed down a bit. He didn’t run in 2016 because his son died and Clinton cleared the way and, well, it was her turn and Biden just didn’t have his heart in it.
I don’t blame him, mind.
It’s just now I’m in a place where it seems that Biden’s heart isn’t in it and, at the same time, he’s older. Like, you know how you describe some older folks as “spry”? Like, say, Biden in 2012? He no longer comes across as spry. 2012 Biden was a spitfire. “Will he make it to 2020?” had an obvious question “HELL YES!”
Will he make it to 2024? That answer is less obvious.
Which brings my eye to Harris. Is she going to be good? “She can hardly be worse than Trump!”, some will argue. While true, it’s not exactly interesting. Maybe all the Democrats need is a big win in the House in 2020 and then they can redistrict, gerrymander, and use computers to help establish a permanent Democratic majority.
Who cares if Republicans win in 2024 by running against a lightweight Harris? The House will be Blue Forever. And all other good things follow from that.Report
Re: Harris I think it all depends on what your political priorities are. If she ends up president or 2024 nominee then those who think all is well with the Democratic party/larger political mainstream are probably in for another rude awakening.
But if you think the establishment needs to be forced to answer some hard questions then that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I’ve come to believe that Trump is not sticking it to the left or the Democratic party. By making sure the legit criticisms are associated with his persona he’s actually letting them off the hook for all kinds of things.Report
One thing I’ve seen on twitter (a lot) is this desire to just go back to politics being boring again.
Yay! Go back to brunch!
There’s no going back.
Trump has changed things.Report
I go to brunch either way. It’s how I rejuvenate in between building guillotines. What is a beheading without avocado toast and a mimosa?Report
“Wait, Biden won! Why are the minorities still complaining when cops shoot them?”Report
That’s going to be a trip to deal with the older suburban white voters in the Northeast.
“Why are the browns complaining that ICE is still raiding schools and churches? Biden won!”
(As someone whose done work on immigration issues, the Obama admin was actively despicable in its first four years and only even vaguely acceptable in its next 4)Report
“What is a beheading without avocado toast and a mimosa?”
Not sure, but if we’re making it a thing I expect the other guys will come up with something equally suitable.Report
Eggs benedict and Irish coffee? French toast and a creamy stout?Report
Now I’m kinda hoping. This is how you get fascism.
I don’t remember reading this in Arendt.Report
Personally, I’m a fan of some hash and Irish car bombs. It’s a fun combination.Report
You’ll never think of the Beer Hall Putsch the same way again. It wasn’t the beer. It was the brunch.Report
It wasn’t the Ides of March, it was the brunch.
Plausible.Report
Good piece. Well argued. Though i’m a liberal type so i would be inclined to agree with it. Still it’s focused on issues and serious stuff with good support.Report
“Donald Trump — who has five children by three wives;
What does that have to do with anything?
“boasted about sexually assaulting women and bursting in on teenage beauty contestants”
No, he used locker room talk in a candid moment. And as every claim of his so-called abuse has been nowhere to be seen in the last four years, notwithstanding that the left would love nothing more than to have any even remotely believable claim to parade around as we run-up to the election, I can only call BS on this sad, run-down talking point. As opposed to the similar claims about Biden.
“a corrupt venal man who has abused his wealth to silence critics and used government power to enrich himself”
and no example is given. Not that it matters to the supporters of Biden, and the laptop run amok. But, during that shitshow of an impeachment, you would think there would have been shown a law or two that had been broken, something like that. But, alas. There wasn’t.
“is the moral and spiritual leader of the nation.”
And the most offensive line to a libertarians heart. No president is my spiritual leader. No president is my moral leader. The president, no matter who is in that position, is simply the hired help. A man or woman paid to run things, not unlike a butler.
But, thank you. You have clarified my feelings in voting for him, as he has been a more than the adequate person to run things, as shown by the good economy, no wars of vanity, strong gains in Middle Eastern peace achieved without violence, and a decent showing in the Covidicy.Report
“and no example is given.” – I gave you a link to $8 million in taxpayer money that’s been shoveled into his businesses. And that’s just one example. And “the moral and spiritual leader of the nation” is a thing and his supporters believe.Report
No, you gave a link to a paywalled bit of opinion. And again, if there had been anything of substance to it, the Dems would have used it during the impeachment. It is kind of a hard wall on what is and what isn’t.
I don’t particularly care what Trump’s supporters believe, especially in a pro-Biden piece. I care about your argument, your opinions. And I found them wanting. While I fully admit to being swayed by Trump and his successes*, I do want to read about other opinions. I simply found this paragraph to be the penultimate section of the opinion; and that was about Trump more than Biden.
*being of the Hebrew persuasion, I deeply care about what is happening on this playing field. And that alone is enough to sway me. I worry how bad Biden would screw it up if he wins.Report
If there is something there the D’s would have used it, is not a proof of anything. If being impeached is the standard for doing something wrong then Obama, by your standard, was gold. Almost nothing wrong any prez has done has ever been wrong by this standard. Impeachment happens for a lot of reasons and is rarely used. That may be good or bad but isn’t the standard for bad.Report
So, if nothing is used, it is proof of… something?
O…K…?
I mean, that some good logicing Lou!Report
Check. Obama did nothing wrong ever since he wasn’t impeached. Droning people: aaron seal of approval.
Trump was impeached so he is wrong on the Ukraine matter. Check.Report
Oh, he did plenty wrong in my eyes, but nothing illegal. And one of the fun facts, as the R’s never impeached him, they never had a dividing line of what was considered a crime. They never said, “here are all the crimes we consider him guilty of” No, they left that open as it is good politics, and bad politics to bring charges you cannot prove. Like the Dem’s did.
But Trump was impeached. Meaning the D’s thought what he did was so unforgivable that they couldn’t wait for the next election. But, when they had that opportunity, they couldn’t even find a law that was broken to charge him with. Nothing that could have bolstered their case.
So, all those piss hookers, and Russians, and emoluments and so on, were just a hill of beans. Nothing in the end.Report
It is not a bit of opinion. It is documented fact that he has funneled $8 million into his own coffers. The reason it has only come out now is because the White House spent four years fighting public information requests into what they were doing and finally lost.Report
Biden demanded a $10 million under-the-table payment from Chinese just for a meeting, which they got. They also took millions from Burisma, and laundered hundreds of millions for Russian oligarchs. The billion dollars in US aid to Ukraine, which Biden used for extortion to protect is illegal activities, just disappeared. The Ukrainians can’t find it. Some of it most certainly went to Biden or Obama’s national security advisor, who was the primary stock holder in the firm Burisma was using to launder their money.
And of course Hunter got well over a billion dollars in Chinese government controlled investment money to play around with, even while they had him on video doing bad bad things.
Trump wouldn’t walk across the street for $8 million. He gave up billions to be President. Unlike Biden, he didn’t enter politics to become extremely rich by selling out the working class to foreign interests.
Biden and Kamala are taking a hard line on Israel. I’m sure they’ll being richly rewarded for it.Report
Rudy Giuliani ranting and raving on Twitter does not constitute evidence. The billion dollars, for example, refer to the size of the target capitalization for a business related to equity fund he was distantly connected with and hasn’t made money off of.
But keep trying.Report
Yepper. Nobody in charge of a multi-billion dollar investment fund makes any money off it all. Nobody. Those stockbrokers and hedge-fund managers all just do it as a hobby.
Get serious. Even if Hunter is lowballing his management fee at 1.5% (2% is normal), that’s $22 million a year he’s getting paid by the Chinese government entities that are letting the politically-connected crack-addict pretend to have a regular job.
The e-mails on the laptop are real. They have been verified by multiple press outlets. Multiple people on those e-mail chains, at least two of Hunter’s own business partners, and the US government have verified them. In one quick check, the e-mail headers go to valid Burisma servers that are still in use. Those can’t be faked. The FBI has said they’re not part of any Russian conspiracy, and in any event the KGB cannot make Hunter take crack-pipe selfies or post videos on his Pornhub account.Report
No.
What we have here is the latest version of Piss Hookers. Behind a paywall.
We spent how many years investigating Trump, an investigation that spread way past its mandate of Russia? We have had how many claims of emoluments clause being violated?
But I am supposed to believe in a report that is behind a paywall?
“This time we got him!”Report
No, what we have here is the White House’s own damned documents and your denial before you switch to “Oh, he’s a a great businessman! This is perfectly normal!”
Always remember the Trump Scandal Cycle
1 – This is fake news!
2 – Everyone does this. It’s perfectly normal.
3 – Of course not everyone does this. Trump is a genius!
4 – Who cares! Democrats suck! MAGA!
You are stage 1.Report
Considering I cannot even see the documents as they are behind the paywall, it is hard to make any claims about them.
But about your numbered list:
1. Piss Hookers. Remember them, ‘they were fake news. As were the 100 odd other things that have been Gotcha! moments.
2. When did I ever say anything like that.
3. See #2
4. What the ever-loving heck are you going on about now?
This is just getting sad.Report
Does this help?
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-properties-billed-taxpayers-supporters-8-million-report-2020-10Report
Well, that is a bit more information than I was previously given, but I am not seeing anything illegal. Maybe if it was showing that the charges were being bumped up specifically for gov’t and that never happened before, then there might be something interesting with it all (and I am not sure that would be illegal in any case)
So, shrug? Kinda like the tax returns in my opinion.
But, thank you for showing me. It does help.Report
Its not illegal. But its at east as unethical as anything Hunter Biden is accused of doing.Report
What is intriguing to me is how a lot of alleged Trumpists but still Democratic Party haters are grasping at straws to find something wrong with Biden. This is despite all evidence to the contrary. They aren’t even policy issues. They are taking what is bad about Trump and alleging it to Biden.
In short, I like this essay but the OTers with right-wing sympathies are tripling down l. Motivated reasoning is a thing to behold.Report
Whenever someone observes something, the important thing to ask is “Why are they noticing that?”
It doesn’t matter if it’s accurate or not. It doesn’t matter if it’s true from some angles even as it’s less true from others.
The important thing is their motivation. Which is why we must question it.
Also: Question timing. “Why are they only criticizing Biden now when they could have been criticizing him back when it would have done enough good for a progressive to win the primary?”Report
Or it could be that I am correct and it is a good example of motivated reasoning combined with negative partisanship for all the wrong reasons.Report
Saul, I was arguing a year ago that Biden would beat Trump back when you were still endorsing Warren.
I still think that Biden gets the Blue Wall back and if Trump picks up a state, it’ll be a single state: New Hampshire.
But that doesn’t mean that Biden is perfect.
That doesn’t mean that Biden is above criticism.
What’s the phrase?
“Biden isn’t a silver bullet.”Report
Biden definitely deserves criticism. They all do. I went after Obama repeatedly.
But what Saul is pointing to is not criticism. Its fact free ranting of the type that George often authors. And frankly its just so stupid. Biden does have stuff to be fairly criticized about, but that stuff doesn’t make make it to the level of whacko Saul is on about.Report
Have you looked at any foreign papers lately? They’re dishing lots of dirt about Biden, right on the front page. His reputation overseas is already garbage. He will not be “leader of the free world” because he’s damaged goods.
For one small example, from the UK Sun
What foreigners are watching is the complete implosion of a politician embroiled in multiple and gigantic corruption scandals involving bribes, money laundering, drugs, sex trafficking, and child sex abuse. They’ve all seen prime ministers collapse and resign in disgrace before, or try to soldier on to a special election and bring their party a massive defeat, and this is what it looks like.
Perhaps more worrying for Democrats is Hunter’s business e-mails where he discusses bringing other top Democrats like Cuomo, and lots of others, in on his schemes, telling his associates that they could make a whole lot more money with more heavyweights in on the deals. And from other leaks that are coming out, it looks like Cuomo may have been doing just that, selling state contracts for cash. If that’s the case, this scandal could grow to engulf a very large hunk of the top Democratic Party officials.
The logic of the scheme is quite sound. The more top people they draw into the corruption, the more people they can use as leverage in deal making, and the more top people who will stop any investigations into that corruption. That’s likely why the Democrats, in a panic,, launched the impeachment probe a day after the FBI seized Hunter’s laptop, although they’d also gone into a tizzy upon finding out that Trump was encouraging foreign investigations into Biden corruption. If they weren’t themselves in bed with the schemes, they wouldn’t have cared.
The thing Americans are going to soon ask is “If these foreigners were paying top Democrats unbelievable amounts of money, what were they getting in return? Is that why our factory shut down? Is that why Facebook and Twitter won’t let me ask about it? What are they hiding?”Report
Who owns the Sun?Report
God?Report
Rupert Murdoch.
See a link now?
A slant?
A bias?Report
You left out the part where the laptop was returned because Hunter wasn’t a target of or implicated in the search.Report
Speaking of this, Trump tweeted he loves Texas because some Brownshirt cosplayers tried to run Wendy Davis in a Biden bus off the road.Report
Everybody has seen the videos. It was the Democrat vehicle that tried to run a Trump supporter off the road. The Trump supporter refused to run over anyone who happened to be in the emergency lane (a driver behind a bus cannot see the emergency lane), and ended up having to push the Democrat back into their own lane.
The entire incident was being filmed from multiple angles by multiple sources. Democrats can lie all they want, but everybody can just watch the videos and see the truth as events unfolded. Youtube even has plenty of reaction videos where the hosts roar with laughter at the play-by-play.Report
You may have missed the part where they forced the bus into the left lane and the trialing vehicle tried to follow it.Report
The bus was in the center lane for a while, then straddled the white stripes between the center lane and the right lane, and then got into the right lane. The black Trump truck was right behind the bus in the right lane. The white Democrat vehicle then tried to drive the black Trump truck off the road.Report
Vehicle have political leanings now? What exactly is a “Democrat vehicle”?Report
A vehicle where the idiot lights won’t stop flashing.Report
Those “idiot lights” were flashing because the car was part of a damned convoy with the bus that the MAGAheads were trying to break apart at 65 miles an hour for absolutely no good reason at all. Quit rationalizing and justifying garbage behavior because you think you’ve some technicality in the narrative. Surrounding and slowing down a political opponents’ bus on the highway in some bizarre show of force is pointless, stupid and dangerous. The entire sorry episode was wrong.Report
The white car was part of a convoy? Judging from the video, that vehicle was the only other Democrat on the road. Democrats tend not to leave the house very much except to go to Trump rallies.
You see, only about half the people at many of the Trump rallies are Republicans. The rest tend to be split pretty evenly between Democrats and Independents. So when Trump has a rally where 58,000 people show up to cheer him on, about 14,000 of those are probably Democrats. That’s more Democrats cheering Trump, at just one of his countless events, than have attended all of Biden’s rallies, combined.
And that says something. Trump supporters have been having mass spontaneous rallies all over the place, even in front of Joe Biden’s home in Delaware. They are loud and proud, and many say they’d die for Donald Trump. He’s leading a highly motivated army.
In contrast, Biden supporters aren’t even willing to go down to a polling place to vote for him in person. They don’t go to his rallies. They don’t go to the airport to see him arrive. They don’t follow his campaign bus. By all appearances, none of them give two figs about him. He can’t lead anyone anywhere, because nobody cares enough to follow him. Maybe they’d show up if he offered free big screen TV’s, or the occasional washing machine.
Biden supporters might tweet all day long, expressing their outrage as they always do, but they can’t even form a tiny little convoy, much less the huge ones that extend for countless miles, or huge marches right through Hollywood. If it doesn’t involve burning down their own cities, ransacking museums and libraries, looting neighborhood stores, and throwing Molotov cocktails at cops, they just don’t show up.Report
As usual, your plunge into an alternate dimension informed only by MAGA narratives did not address the issue.Report
I basically see everybody who refuses to vote for Biden and straight Democratic down ballot as complicit with the being a Trump supporter and supporting the increasingly authoritarian and white nationalist Republican Party. Biden may not fit your ideological priors but he is the vote if you support democracy in any shape or form.Report
Seriously? You are this blinded by ideology that you can’t come up with good reasons that good people could vote for either candidate? Or was this intended as some kind of sarcastic joke?
Anyway, my point is that as intelligent people we should be open minded enough to grok why other people would have legitimate and benevolent reasons for voting the way they do. And I am saying this as someone who would never vote for Trump. I still can grasp why millions disagree with me.Report
Their agenda, such as it is, is far more likely to be set by Joe Manchin than AOC.
I think this is one of the best points in the piece. There’s a cult of catastroph-ism dominating the discourse that doesn’t do a lot of accounting for how the government works or the various actors with leverage. Which isn’t to say people shouldn’t care about bad actors or policies they disagree with but there’s serious distortion of what can happen in a single election cycle.Report
I edited the above comment (hope that’s OK) to use <em> </em>, instead of<i> </i> which no longer works, at least on Chrome.Report
Yes, thank you. I guess I need to update my htmling.Report
As a total aside, do we have some list of the HTML tags that do work now?Report
em
strong
a
strikeare the ones I know of.Report
em is italics.
strong is bold
blockquote still worksReport
Danke!
And what is blockquote? Bitte?Report
Erm, < blockquote > < /blockquote >.
No spaces.Report
Ganz gut.Report
I love the very nerdy assumption that someone might use something other than italics for emphasis and something other than bold-text for strong. Nobody anywhere has ever done that but stilll! Somebody might! And when they do then by god the HTML Standard will be right there waiting for them.Report
Another point about Trump’s being dangerous in a way that previous presidents were not:his centralization of power in his own person.
* Using the DOJ as his own personal legal strike force
* Replacing independent IGs with lackeys
* Firing the FBI director for disloyalty
* His openly stated rationale for pushing Barrett onto the Court so quickly was so she could hand him the election (he no longer trusts Roberts).
These are things dictators and would-be dictators do.Report
Also, he crippled the Post Office to interfere with the election.Report
I’d be curious for a post sometime after the election (maybe several weeks out) where people actually lay out what they see specifically as the unique characteristics of ‘woke identity politics’ that folks are opposing that makes it a unique thing. And that comes with specific examples or how this is playing out in real life, not just on Twitter
Obviously, there’s James Lindays’ rantings on the internet about it being a religion (I say rant not because it’s bad but because…it was just sooooooooooo long). And like, within the broader belly of the ‘beast’, I have my own misgivings about how we talk about race, gender, sexuality, oppression in DEI circles – but I’m often left kinda askewed as to what people mean by all of this that isn’t just built up by twitter.
(I write this because this is the 3rd or 4th pro-biden post that seems to hint plus the comment section)Report
It’s been debated here ad nauseum. Probably good and relatively recent examples are the discussions around the Harpers letter and a counter Harpers Letter essat. I’m sure Jaybird has others.
https://ordinary-times.com/2020/07/08/from-freddie-deboer-ending-the-charade
https://ordinary-times.com/2020/07/09/from-elizabeth-picciuto-the-real-free-speech-violations/Report
I found few of the conversations specific enough to get at what I was looking for, though the conversation about JK Rowling was I think really useful as a discussion about what the debate is about.Report