An Emerging Staten Island Narrative
Staten Island is getting upset.
Staten Island is a borough that has an uneasy relationship with the rest of New York City’s boroughs under the best of circumstances. It has felt treated like a literal and figurative dumping ground for the other boroughs’ garbage (at one point, 650 tons of garbage per day were dumped in Fresh Kills landfill). In 1993, a referendum for Staten Island to secede from New York City and form an independent city actually passed with voters. Rudy Giuliani smoothed things over and averted the secession by closing the Fresh Kills landfill and making the Staten Island Ferry free.
But now, after Sandy, Staten Islanders are feeling positively scorned. With an election in four days, this could spell some serious problems for Obama.
You wouldn’t know it from the news coverage, which portrays Manhattan and perhaps the Jersey Shore and Queens as hit hardest by the storm. But Staten Island arguably suffered the brunt of Sandy’s torrent. At least 19 of the the 41 people who have died in the storm died in Staten Island, including little children who were ripped from their mothers’ arms. But there has not much news coverage until today. Not coincidentally, the members of the media work in Manhattan and often live there. They do not live in Staten Island. New Jersey has a passionate and charismatic spokesman in its governor, Chris Christie. While people in Staten Island are homeless and powerless and grieving, the mayor — who has just embraced Obama — is going ahead with the New York City marathon on Sunday, which begins in Staten Island.
You might think of New York City as being the ultimate favorable territory for Obama. Staten Island is an exception to the rest of the city in this way as in so many others. Staten Island was the only borough to go for McCain in 2008. In fact, it has only elected the Democratic presidential nominee three times since 1952. The residents are likely not nearly as favorably disposed toward the Obama administration as the rest of New York City. Thus, they are less likely to see delays in aid as necessary hold-ups in a good faith effort, and more likely to see them as incompetence.
There is also a racial and class component. Staten Island is the only borough that is majority non-Hispanic white. Staten Islanders tend to perceive themselves as more working class than the rest of the city. That’s actually not true – in 1999 the median household income for Staten Island was $55,093 while for the rest of New York City it was $38,293. Even Manhattan had a median income of $47,030. My guess is that Staten Islanders tend to feel more working class because they sense they are poorer than the other non-Hispanic whites in the city, or at least the ones in Manhattan. When news articles muse on what the Sandy may do to waterfront real estate prices in the Hamptons, how can you not think that rich white people do not have any sense what the hell is really happening to the devastated working class areas?
Dolly Lenz, a high-end broker at Douglas Elliman in Manhattan, said that even though she was scrambling to get some clients appointments lined up in the wake of the storm, others in flooded areas like Battery Park City were “reassessing whether they want to be there on a long-term basis as they had originally thought.”
Her advice: “Take a pause, wait a few weeks and see what happens. Those kinds of decisions should not be made in a panic. They’re in a panic. They’re not accustomed to having their life upended that way.”
She said at least one deal, a $1 million year-round Hamptons rental, had fallen through. Before the storm, her client had “only wanted the primest of prime oceanfront.” Now the priorities have shifted to a home in the estate section farther inland. “They don’t want to put their family and pets in the way of any potential danger,” she said, “and do not wish to pursue the waterfront opportunity.”
There’s a sense of the white working class being ignored by the president who looks after minorities and rich elites. And this plays perfectly into the narrative that appeals to a certain stripe of Romney voter. With Obama and Democrats in power, your interests are ignored by elites who mock you and your values, and who are all too happy to give your hard-earned money to poor minorities.
I would be hesitant to say that Staten Island is Obama’s reverse-race Katrina for many reasons. First of all, it is impossible at this point to compare the scope of devastation. Also, it may well be the case that Staten Islanders are mistaken. Perhaps FEMA is doing the best it can possibly do; perhaps order will be restored shortly. Craig Fugate seems widely admired, and FEMA has been strongly praised otherwise. But there is little time to correct the narrative before November 6.
Sandy perhaps seemed like a bit of a positive for Obama. Although it might depress voting in very blue areas, these are mostly states that would go blue anyhow. He got to look presidential, Republican governor Chris Christie praised him to the skies, storms remind people of why they like a federal government who can marshal the resources to save people when state governments cannot. However, if the last taste in voters’ mouths is a bitter pill from Staten Islanders, who feel ignored by their president and billionaire mayor who is newly in love with the president, then that could make a difference. Perhaps not a huge difference, but this is a close race. And any difference might matter.
UPDATE: To be clear, I do not think this could possibly affect Obama’s chances in New York. But the coverage of Staten Island’s grievances has been a national story. It could affect voters watching and judging from afar — especially those inclined to identify with Staten Islanders.
UPDATE 2: I’m guessing the cancellation of the marathon radically reduces the chances that this will be a story with legs.
“then that could make a difference. Perhaps not a huge difference, but this is a close race. And any difference might matter. ”
The race isn’t even close in NY and it won’t matter even a little bit. As you noted Staten Island is historically GOP territory and it’s less than 6% of the population of NYC. NY state polls show Obama with a roughly 60% – 30% advantage over Romney. Don’t believe the horse race nonsense you see in the media.Report
Won’t matter at all in NY. This is national news.Report
T’was just a quibble, though. The analysis of the fault lines was informative.Report
It’s national news likely to be given more traction by the start of the NYC marathon in Staten Island this weekend. I’m still scratching my head over that one. It seems that the city and it’s mayor would have bigger priorities than making sure the marathon goes off as scheduled.
Still, I’m not sure Staten Island’s issues will have that much overall impact on the election. Overall, given the scope of the disaster, the administration seems to have responded well and the folks in Staten Island could come off as whiners as easily as they could be seen as having a legitimate gripe.Report
It was a big deal in NY after 9/11 to get back to ordinary life ASAP. A la London during the Blitz.
I think it’s different for a natural disaster and an act of war or terrorism, however.Report
Also, I’m not sure the marathon counts as “normal” life. Even under ordinary circumstances, it’s a disruption.Report
From what I have seen Obama is getting high marks on his handling of Sandy.Report
Not really. Christie sucking up to Obama is national news. The fate of Staten Island, not so much. Let’s be honest, Republicans have never needed a reason to claim victimhood. They do it about everything.
Let me note for the record that most of the cast of “Jersey Shore” was actually from Staten Island.Report
It’s good to see Staten Island starting to get some attention, poor devils. But I doubt their legitimate frustrations can affect the presidential race much. Polls show Obama leading by almost 30 points in New York. Applying FoxMathTM, that means he has a 15-20 point lead. Since Staten Island probably already included a sizable proportion of likely Romney voters, there can’t possibly be enough would-have-been Obama voters who will switch to make up that kind of ground.Report
Is it wrong that my first question was, “How does the mafia feel about this?” That’s wrong, isn’t it?Report
They can’t be acting worse than the Yakuza after the Tsunami…
ayiyi, what a bunch of faceless, honorless thugs.Report
Were they using Sony’s tanks?Report
James, I agree with you on this point- Staten Island doesn’t swing New York much. But, I think what Rose is saying is more about the national impression of Obama and his handling of a catastrophe. I do think it’s too late for Staten Island to make much of a difference there, but focusing on New York state sounds a bit like saying Katrina didn’t hurt the Republicans much because Louisiana doesn’t have a huge share of the electoral college vote and New Orleans doesn’t have a huge share of the state vote.Report
And, yes, I was too lazy to come back and read her update this morning!Report
I agree. I’ll update the original post so my point is clearer.Report
“There’s a sense of the white working class being ignored by the president who looks after minorities and rich elites.”
So they’ll go with the rich elite guy who’s made no pretense about despising them unless it was convenient. As long as it’s not that minority guy. And they’d rather no one got disaster relief, just because they THINK they’re not getting their “fair share”.
No wonder they’re a joke to the rest of New York.Report
Jeff, you come across as being an exceptionally bitter guy.Report
Yes, I am bitter.
Every year, the GOP seems to get worse and worse, and yet these racists (yes, DD, many of them are racists — get over it), homophobes, sexists and generally ROTTEN thugs keep getting elected, or defeated by narrow margins. Russell and his husband (for such he is, in all but formality) have to fight to achieve equality. Romney wants to fund disaster relief with magic pixie dust, even after Hurricane Sandy, and this lying sack o’ s*** is still at 50%.
No Republican has EVER apologized for the behavior of the GOP during the Bush years — what they did to Murta, to Tammy Ducksworth, to the Dixie Chicks was shameful, but that’s all past us now; like it never happened.
In my personal life, I’m anything but bitter. There’s still a chance I might go see Tom’s band play. But when it comes to politics, you bet I’m bitter.Report
I’m not the only bitter one:
Why is Romney even close?Report
Because of propaganda. The boomers are the most propagandized generation in a long long time.
As the saying goes, “The Russians had more propaganda, but they didn’t believe it.”Report
Donate to VoteVets. or show up and help organize something. The best way to shove it in the faces of those unpatriotic hooligans is by giving jobs to veterans, helping them have something they can do (even with some amount of PTSD), and electing more democrats.Report
Good idea! ThanksReport
Your conclusion re: national trouble for Obama doesn’t relate well to your premises. It comes off as a fantasy. But I’m sure that the effort is appreciated.Report
What effort is appreciated by whom?
And I agree that it doesn’t follow particularly strongly from the premises and is largely speculative. It’s more that the narrative fits nicely into an anti-Obama pattern that people might be willing to seize on.Report
I think you’ve just been Frum-ed by the left, you DINO you.Report
Oh, I get it! Allow me to add: it would be a shame if this were to derail Obama’s chances, since I am the world’s only remaining enthusiastic Obama supporter other than David Axelrod. I actually actively like Obama. Yes! It’s true! I don’t even think he’s the least bad option! I have no idea whether Staten Islanders are justified in being upset. I have no idea whether FEMA has been at all incompetent.Report
Even the liberal Rose Woodhouse at the libertarianesque League of Ordinary Gentlepeople agrees that Staten Island is the death knell for Obama’s electoral chances. Drudge siren?Report
“However, if the last taste in voters’ mouths is a bitter pill from Staten Islanders, who feel ignored by their president and billionaire mayor who is newly in love with the president, then that could make a difference. Perhaps not a huge difference, but this is a close race. And any difference might matter.” = the death knell?Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
mostly.Report
“at the libertarianesque League of Ordinary Gentlepeople”
Yeah, cause we have that one guy…Report
This is why loog is one of my fave blogs to laugh at. I don’t care how you all self-identify. What you say, collectively and individually, defines you adequately.Report
Well, since we’re all laughing here, I find your thinking laughably simplistic. If you can’t work the rudimentary thought processes necessary to understand the dynamic of a group blog, then why should any of us care what you’re laughing at, any more than the giggles of a bunch of children running around a schoolyard?Report
One, Tod? Seriously?Report
(If, of course, the answer is, “No, Mike. Not seriously,” then obviously never mind.)Report
you like obama? Whatever for?
I know people working on his campaign,
and they don’t particularly like the guy!Report
Wait a minute? You know that people don’t like BO?
Shit. Now I have to rethink everything!Report
Ehh… he’s better than Ford?Report
Kim, you know everyone who does anything.Report
Not really. I don’t know any sports figures, at all.
Hell, I don’t know anyone who knows any sports figures…
It’s not like it’s HARD to commandeer a supercomputer…
Or super super difficult to write the code.Report
Actually, I somewhat lied here. I knew someone who would get regular (yearly) phone calls from Madden. Something about a video game…Report
cui bono from your speculation?
I don’t care how you self identify. Just going on what you write as it speaks for itself.
If someone is inclined toward an anti-Obama pattern, they’ll see disaster for him everywhere.Report
My speculations are that Staten Island has a unique racial/class/political make-up with regard to New York City. They are not likely to be patient with the Obama administration.
My speculation is that certain events play into narratives that play for or against one candidate or another. The 47% remark played into Romney’s weaknesses. This plays into Obama’s. You have a bunch of white middle class people who feel ignored in favor of elites and minorities.Report
WE ARE ALL STATEN ISLAND. got it. Is this still good news for John McCain?Report
My dear lady, I’m with Tod on this one. I think you’re getting trolled from my leftward bretheren here. Sorry ’bout that.Report
Patience is the default setting in the aftermath of a natural disaster? Are we talking about humans here? Of course they’re not going to be patient. Their political, socioeconomic and racial ID’s don’t drive that. Being a modern human being drives that.Report
“My speculations are that Staten Island has a unique racial/class/political make-up with regard to New York City. They are not likely to be patient with the Obama administration. ”
This is both true and meaningless. Staten Island is largely populated by angry white people who weren’t going to vote for Obama anyway. That it has very different demographics than the rest of NYC isn’t really news. Considering that Mayor Bloomburg will have a much larger effect on when happens over the next few weeks than Obama, I’m not sure how you can draw any useful conclusions. The election is mere days away and this most certainly will not have a national impact between now and Tuesday.Report
Hope you’re right and I’m wrong.Report
TXG: Staten Island is largely populated by angry white people
RW: Hope you’re right
Yeah, so Obama knows where to put up the guard towers!Report
ACCCCKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please please please allow me to clarify: I hope TXG is right about there being no national impact on the election. (Although that would mean he or she was wrong the sentence before about being unable to draw useful conclusions, but whatever). I hope nothing about the proportion of angry white people in Staten Island.Report
Heh, I was just taking things out of context to make you anti-American liberals look bad. I’m taking a Fox News seminar on it, and this was my homework assignment.Report
Space awesome.Report
I was told that the machine gun turrets are already on the critical infrastructure.
[aka the rich dudez mansions.]Report
No need for towers, it is already an island prison. 🙂Report
You and me both.
I trust Nate Silver’s analysis:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/nov-1-the-simple-case-for-saying-obama-is-the-favorite/Report
Think about what you say and how it may reflect upon our leader. Think about what you do and how it may reflect upon our leader. Think about what you think and how it may reflect upon our leader.Report
If someone is inclined toward an anti-Obama pattern, they’ll see disaster for him everywhere.
Two disasters have recently hit the East Coast. One is hurricane Sandy. The other is Barack Obama.Report
Don’t forget the Yankees.Report
A plus
Says the Mets fanReport
And all real Americans.Report
And the Jets’ backup QB.Report
Let me get this straight: Sanchez stinks up the joint and it’s Tebow’s fault.
You’d think you’d have more sympathy for Republican commentators.Report
Tebow is polarizing. He’s either a living, breathing natural disaster, or he Cannot Fail Can Only Be Failed.Report
cui bono from your speculation?
I would just like to take a moment to point this out and say that I am delighted to add it to my repertoire.Report
Well, not anymore, now that you’ve outed her as a deep-cover Romneybot. I bet her RNC overlords are arranging to cut off the weekly payments even as we speak.Report
I agree that Staten Island is suffering a lot of damage but I think you contradicted yourself a bit.
I don’t see how this is going to be bad for Obama if Staten Island is already and always has been the Republican bastion of New York City. They weren’t going to vote for Obama if Hurricane Sandy did not happen and there are certainly not enough people on Staten Island to switch New York’s electoral college votes to the Republicans.
However, I still think Hurricane Sandy is a wild card in terms of Tuesday’s elections. People generally seem to be giving the President high marks. However, I still think there is a strong chance of Sandy causing difficulties at the polls.
Otherwise, I think your sociological analysis of Staten Island is very spot on. I think they largely do align themselves with working class whites or non-college educated middle class whites. But there are some very wealth sections on Staten Island like Todt Hill and some professionals are slowly starting to make the move out to Staten Island because you can get a detached house and still be in the city.Report
Again, I don’t think this will affect Obama at all in New York. He would not have won Staten Island anyhow, and he will win NY.
If this gets national play, it could make a difference.Report
Maybe but it would need to get a lot of play in the next two or three days.
Right now there are a lot of factors and Sandy was an epic disaster. This election is going to be super-close either way and it is nerve-wracking a bit.Report
If this gets national play, it could make a difference.
This appears to be the part everyone responding to is failing to notice.
That said, there doesn’t seem to be any lack of rescuers or rescue resources in Staten Island, just a lack of attention from the major media outlets, and insensitivity on the part of Bloomberg, who doesn’t seem to be particularly popular anywhere but New York anyway. In addition to the fact that a lack of media attention is not the sort of story that gets voters riled up for or against a candidate, it’s also precisely the reason why it’s not likely to cause any ripples outside of, well, Staten Island: most people won’t hear about it.
I do think it’s pretty shitty that they talk about how many deaths there were in “New York City,” and then show pictures of flooded out areas of Lower Manhattan when such a large portion of the deaths were on Staten Island.Report
That said, there doesn’t seem to be any lack of rescuers or rescue resources in Staten Island, just a lack of attention from the major media outlets, and insensitivity on the part of Bloomberg, who doesn’t seem to be particularly popular anywhere but New York anyway.
I strongly suspect this is really what’s going on in SI. But that’s not what Staten Islanders think, and that’s not what the news stories are saying. They are reporting that SIers are upset about the lack of resources and the marathon.Report
I can understand why Staten Island residents would consider their problems really, really, really critical important problems. (You know, being their’s).
What I don’t get is why the rest of the nation would (1) Care more about Staten Island than, say, any other part of New York. Or New Jersey and (2) Why Staten Island would be chosen as representative of the post-Sandy phase over, you know, anyone else.
For a story to go “national” — Staten Island would either have to be seen as representative of the whole, or there would have to be some special quality (or screwup or whatever) about Staten Island and the post-Sandy stuff to elevate it above everything else.
And I guess that’s sorta what’s missing here. Why should I, in Texas, view Staten Island’s problems as bigger than, oh Brooklyns? Or half of New Jersey?
I’m just not getting that. And since we’re talking “going national”, aren’t I the news audience you’re aiming for? People who don’t live in New York City? If Bloomberg and Christie are on my TV talking about how well everything’s going, then some guy from Staten Island is complaining he’s not getting enough attention, why should I listen to that guy over the mayor? Or Governor?Report
I don’t know, Rose, I think the cement’s already firming on this election.
And the news quote doesn’t really do what you seem to think it does. For folk interested in real estate markets, this is news, and to the extant that that it displaces news about Staten Island, it reflects media choices, not relief efforts.Report
For what it’s worth, again, I am happy that everyone seems to think I am wrong.Report
As I said above in response to Chris, I do wonder if this is a mistaken conclusion drawn by SIers from the lack of media coverage. They see rescues elsewhere and stuff of less immediate importance discussed, but not what they are going through.
I agree the real estate stuff is news. It’s the kind of news that doesn’t read well to certain people.Report
If Bush was President, the press and the Democrats would be going at the Staten Island story full tilt.
“They’re still pulling bodies out of the water and the Republicans want to have a marathon?!!!”
“People are still without power, days later, and the Republicans moved in three huge diesel generators to run press tents for a footrace?!”
“They’re closing the only route for relief supplies so rich Republicans in silk shorts can go jogging?!”
Believe me, it would be non-stop, and very, very angry. Or suppose Mitt happened to be mayor right now, instead of a former governor. The ad blitz Obama would run would be overwhelming.Report
Great point George. Dems are the original double standard bearers and ultimate hypocrites.Report
Democrats invented hypocrisy. It all began when they “opposed” abolition for the express purpose of re-enslaving African Americans by passing the Civil Rights Act a hundred years later!
The reasoning is hard to follow, I know. But it’s true!Report
Great point, George, because the Democrats insisted that the marathon still run (Bloomberg being an Independent)!
It’s getting harder and harder to tell when you’re doing your parodies and when you’re not.Report
I’m just pointing out that if Mit was tied to the marathon or disaster relief, it wouldn’t matter if every other person involved was a Democrat, Mitt would get hammered mercilessly in the press and by the Obama campaign because the narrative of rich whites running a race while bodies are floating in the water is just too good to pass up.Report
Another giant conspiracy!
Dear god, they’re everywhere! Even when they don’t exist, you can tell they exist They’re so pervasive that they’re leaking out of parallel worlds, where Romney is President.
They’re attacking him so hard and unfairly there that it’s leaked across to our reality.Report
Sorry, that wsa unfair. I’m having a very stressful day and it’s leaking out.
My apologies. I’m gonna go take a nap or drink a beer or something. 🙂Report
Yeah. Take a nap. Or get drunk. Wake up sometime late Tuesday night. Everything will be over by then.Report
I discount hypothetical outrage at least 50%. Often more.Report
So, George, let me get this straight. Bloomberg canceled the marathon because of the lack of media criticism?Report
I do think SI has not gotten what it needs, however I blame Bloomberg for that mostly who could direct Red Cross, FEMA, etc. there. Bloomberg is in office because of Staten Islanders constantly voting against their own interests. Look where it has gotten us. It is pretty amazing how Staten Islanders have come together to help each other out though, without the help of the mayor this island put back in office.Report
eeek! I apologize for my poor sentence structure in the first sentence !Report
If there haven’t been reports about people in Staten Island resorting to cannibalism, things aren’t as bad as were reported in New Orleans.Report
I’m sorry, I can’t really accept “Part of New York Unhappy” is gonna really affect the election.
If nothing else, Americans have a sense of proportion. Sandy ate the East Coast.
“Staten Island upset they’re not getting helped fast enough as entire East Coast struggles to deal with Sandy” isn’t gonna catch eyes, because Staten Island is tiny and the East Coast is large.
To your average American not directly involved — me! I haven’t been to New York in a decade and live in Texas — this entire complaint feels like one guy saying “Hey! Why isn’t my power back on? My neighbor’s power is back on. Half the neighborhood’s power is back on. Why are you discrimating against me? Huh?”.
You look around his neighbrood, see houses damaged by flood and wind, see some lights on and not others and you don’t think “Hey, this guy is gonna really change things around here. He’s gonna tell those Power Guys what’s what”. You think “What a whiny jerk”.
That’s why this story isn’t gonna “go national” or affect the election. Because no one is gonna consider Staten Island a special snowflake, but just another small area in a devestated region.Report
This is an interesting idea, Rose.
My first thought is:
But the people who might get upset enough to vote against Obama because of this are 1) most likely not going to vote for Obama anyway, and 2) not really going to care about Staten Islanders because they’re Coastal Elites from New York just like all those other New York heathen.
Maybe I’m wrong, but the right has been using New York as a boogeyman for a long time and I don’t see that changing so suddenly. Not that there won’t be some who try to push this concept. I’d guess that in the eyes of most people, Christie is the same as Staten Islanders, and he’s already endorsed Obama’s response.Report
People were willing to feel for NYC firefighters.Report
Good post, Rose. I do wonder how much of this quite justified ire from Staten Island is going to be directed more at Bloomberg than Obama. From New Jersey, it seems like Obama’s visit here did a fair amount of good for the state; Bloomberg, by contrast, lamely refused Obama’s visit on the grounds that it was “too dangerous” for the President in Manhattan (but somehow not “too dangerous” to run a marathon through all five boroughs just a few days later). Bloomberg’s focus, from the limited information I’ve had, has also been – as usual – heavily biased towards Manhattan. That Bloomberg is also taking the time to send in commentary pieces about his Presidential endorsement while all of this is going just adds to the unconscionability.Report
Yeah, maybe. The complaints I’d heard were about both Obama and Bloomberg, but maybe it’s more Bloomberg-focused.Report
“With Obama or Romney in power, your interests are ignored by elites who mock you and your values, and who are all too happy to give your hard-earned money to minorities and elites.”
I fixed this for you so it covers both parties. 🙂Report
I saw on C-SPAN this morning that the Staten Island guy who was complaining so loudly yesterday is now thanking the Red Cross for showing up with food, etc. So his “issues” appear to have been resolved.Report
That was the Brough president, who later in the day said the governor called and set up a conference call with the president to see what was needed. He sounded satisfied on the CNN interview.Report
I don’t think there’s enough time now for perception to change regardless of the facts on the ground or ‘the truth’. The initial take in the National Zeitgeist is that Obama has handled the situation well (70% approval) (as has Christie, but I don’t have a number) and that’s good enough to avoid any down vote next week and will probably get him a few up votes. (enough that the chances of a Romney pop vote victory with an Obama electoral college victory are probably an order of magnitude than Silver’s latest chance of that happening – i.e 0.2% vice 2%)Report
Great post, Rose. Thank you for writing what we are feeling.Report
I for one will be SO happy when we don’t have to hear anymore about Bronco Bama and Mitt Romney
Regardless of who wins, Bronco is his name from here on.Report
Wow – so back in ’08, Obama was actually the maverick all along!
It’s like the end of the Usual Suspects; you have to go bak and replay everything in your head.Report
Or Memento. I think. I don’t really remember.Report
I just saw someone mention that the race has been officially cancelled. I haven’t checked for confirmation, though.Report
So much for Obama being a post-race President.
(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57544624/nyc-marathon-canceled-amid-outcry)Report
Well, race issues have finally caught up with him.
Maybe we should start a pun thread. 🙂Report
Isn’t EVERY thread a pun thread?
Can I say that it’s a black day in NY when the marathon is cancelled? No? OK, then I won’t! [pouts]Report
As we watched this horrendous drama on S.I. play out my husband commented ‘they vote Republican. that’s why they’re not getting the help.’ I checked it out and he was right. Dems are mean, vicious people – I’m almost tempted to say ‘may the earth open up and swallow NYC whole.’ But I won’t.Report
I wonder what you found which would lead you to the conclusion Democrats were responsible for neglecting Staten Island. If true, that’s really terrible. But I would like to see some proof.Report
Democrats marked their front doors with the blood of Republican children, so the minions of The One would bring them non-fat milk and healthy snacks.Report
Romooooo!
That guy, unlike a lot of guys, is good.Report
What a horrible, horrible thing to not say. I mean, my God.Report
I’m almost tempted to say ‘may the earth open up and swallow NYC whole.’ But I won’t.
Oh, thank God you decided not to say that. Because I was almost tempted to say “Carol and her husband are wretched human beings who should feel rightly ashamed of speaking their loathsome thoughts to decent people.” But I won’t.Report
Updated the OP again to suggest that canceling the race means this story is less likely to be a big deal.Report
Actually, watching Anderson Cooper on CNN. The entire show is about the devastation on SI and lack of response.
The borough president was on and praising Obama and Cuomo for coming through.Report
Rose,
I would say that today, on the NY-based news stations, SI was getting a lot of coverage, with some attention paid to the feelings of abandonment.
Regarding well perceptions, I think SI lacks the elite, super concentrated wealth of Manhattan. There is no 5th Avenue or CPW in SI.Report
How many of these people were supposed to evacuate? When I look at the maps, it seems most of the perimeter of the island was on mandatory evacuation.
Did they? Or did they decide to stay, to tough it out?
Was the flooding and storm surge beyond then the mandatory evacuation area?
Does anyone know?
Because I keep thinking of Vermont last year during Irene; where nobody expected what happened; and where people were stranded in remote areas, the bridges and roads washed out, for many, many days.
But this, it was expected. One of the best storm forecasting successes on record.Report
It’s not just the deaths. People have returned to their homes to find them in shambles or shifted hundreds of yards into marshlands. Destruction just as bad as the Jersey Shore and LI and worse than most of Manhattan. But, as is so often the case, SI remains the red-headed stepchild of NYC’s buroughs.
Rose would know better, but I think the mindset is self-fulfilling at this point. The rest of NY (and even NJ) shit on SI. SI flips the bird back. Rinse and repeat.Report
Thank you, Kazzy.
My husband used to work on Mt. Washington, in NH, where people die nearly every year. They hike it in a tee-shirt and without water; they ski in avalanche conditions. And he’d have to risk his life to go out and rescue them. I have a hard time forgiving stupidity like this when it puts other people’s lives in danger.
So thank you. You helped.Report
Here’s some of the answer:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/daughter-survives-mother-dies-article-1.1195317
I’m very sorry so many lost loved ones, so many had lost personal property. Very sorry. But the decision to stay was theirs, and that decision carries the weight of putting other lives in danger to undertake rescue. And unlike NOLA, there was clear communication, clear instruction to get the fuck out of this storms way. I am very sorry, these things are horrible. But some of this, at least, was also unnecessary; so I’m also struggling with some deep-seated anger here. If you opted to stay, don’t you bear some responsibility for what happened?Report
Zic,
There is no doubt that folks who ignored evacuation orders subsidized their risks on others. Some folks had seemingly good reason not to evacuate: an inability to; a mistrust of government that made it hard to accept their orders; a misjudgement if the risk of leaving versus the risk if staying. Christie, in his usual blustery way, rightfully called out folks who didn’t adhere to evacuation orders. If more lives are lost by rescuerers helping people who wouldn’t need help if they had evacuated, the tragedy is heighted and those non-evacuees are at least party responsible.
But disasters are just that… Disasters. Expecting sound, thoughtful reasoning is hard. Expecting it from people who have rarely gotten such thought directed towards them or at least perceived as such (including residents of SI, AC, NOLA… Notice a trend? All marginalized groups) is harder still. I personally wouldn’t put non-evacuees in the same boat as hikers voluntarily going into hostile areas ill-prepared, but that’s just me. I think the circumstances differ two greatly. But I understand your frustration, especially if it is your loved one putting his/her life on the line. I can empathize with this as the son of a firefighter and husband of a Naval nurse.Report
I did my best to scan through the comments here but if I missed a similar point to the one I am about to make, apologies in advance…
Everyone seems to be very critical of Rose because she seems to imply that the unhappiness in Staten Island could affect the election. I don’t know if that is a bridge too far and I don’t know NY state culture very well but is there no solidarity in the Empire State? is there no bleed over of that dissatisfaction from Si into other areas?
Also, let’s not forget that there are places that are going to have a lot less turnout. A blogger I follow who also writes for the Atlantic said this today:
“The NJ update — no power until late next week, major gas shortages, drop in temp. Bloomberg is an ass for keeping the Marathon. There’s no way that they can hold elections in NJ next week.”
Beyond NY and NJ you also have to think about other places that just barely missed getting hit hard. Virginia, Maryland, Deleware. Then you have other places around the country that have experienced natural disasters in recent years and they are going to be angered on behalf of the people in SI. On top of all of this, there is a nor’easter scheduled to hit the east coast around election day.
I’m not predicting Obama loses this election. What I am predicting is that we just don’t know what will happen. People wavig Rose’s concerns aside aren’t looking at the big picture IMO.Report
is there no solidarity in the Empire State?
That’s actually an interesting question. I don’t know NY well, but my general understanding is that it’s one of those states with a big downstate/upstate divide. Which doesn’t mean there’s no solidarity, but considerably less than I would expect from, for example, Kentucky. I imagine there’s some East v. West in Kentucky, just as there’s some North v. South in my native Indiana, but probably at a pretty low level (correct me if I’m wrong, Mike, I’m no Kentucky expert, either). Indiana’s genius is to have it’s capital and large city smack in the middle of a not too big state, with easy access to it from everywhere, but in some states the divide is very very contentious.
In Illinois, there are downstaters who’d just about throw a party if Chicago got swallowed up by Lake Michigan, and Chicagoans hardly give a thought to anything south of I=80. Oregon and Washington each have a pretty serious East-West divide that maps pretty closely to a conservative-liberal divide, to the extent there’s persistent low level talk about forming a state out of their East of the Cascade regions. And in California the North-South divide is serious enough that they’ve actually formed commissions to make proposals for dividing the state (although none has ever come close to passage, I believe).
So when you ask if there’s no solidarity in New York state, it’s possibly not just a rhetorical question. But it’d take someone with more knowledge of the state than I have to answer it with certainty.Report
James, the dynamic in KY is more simple. It’s Louisville vs. Everyone Else. They see us as Yankee heathens and basketball traitors. We see them as backward hillbillies that have an unnatural love of UK. Funny that they still don’t mind spending on our tax dollars though…
I’d say if there were any legs to the Staten Island thing it would be coming from other folks around the country that sympathize more than the people in NY that maybe understand the dynamics better. Like I said, I’m not making any predictions other than, “this might prove interesting.”Report
Mike,
See my post below. If this makes a difference, it is elsewhere… NOT in NY.Report
Mike,
Ah, so KY does have its own such problem. Me learn new thing. That good.
Seriously, every state should have followed Indiana’s model. Our only problem is “the region” (Chicagoland area). But even that’s a pretty moderate divide.
From my perspective the only thing really wrong with Indiana is that we’re unfortunate enough to be home to Notre Dame.Report
KY’s capital is pretty close to being centrally located. Everyone just resents Louisville because the lion’s share of the money is here and we don’t root for UK.
As for dissing Notre Dame, you wound me sir. I love my Cards but I bleed blue and gold. Ignoring the squeaker with Pitt, this season has been a blast.Report
My loathing of Notre Dame is so deep that scientists have failed to successfully measure it even with a bathysphere.
(I can’t believe that the Pitt snapper muffed it. Poor kid probably won’t sleep tonight.)Report
well, we got world-wide solidarity with NYC & the Empire State on 9/11, so we have an existence proof.Report
I think Rose’s point, and as I understand the local culture (grew up just outside NYC in NJ), is that SI doesn’t engender the type of solidarity that other areas of NY might. James is right that is a big upstate/city divide. But even within that, there are lots of mini-divides. NYC looks down on Long Island. Manhattan looks down on the outer boroughs. And everyone looks down on SI. SI likely won’t engender much support; they’re not seen as sophisticated urbanites by Manhattanites but they are seen as city-dwellers by the Upstaters. But, as Rose argues, folks elsewhere in the country, who don’t know that might watch the TV and say, “Hey… those Staten Islanders look like me… there neighborhood looks like mine. Why is the government shitting on them? Would they shit on me?” Folks who are inclined to think the government is hostile to the white working man could see the situation in SI as confirming this narrative. Will that happen? I dunno. But had the city diverted resources from helping victims to running a marathon (which, thankfully, they wised up and didn’t) that started in SI, it could easily have turned out that way, especially if folks took that football and ran with it, exploiting the tragedy for political ends.
Rose might be wrong in just how impactful this turns out to be but her demonstration of the unique circumstances at play is, from my vantage point, spot on.Report
This is pretty much exactly what I think, and I also think that now that the marathon is canceled, it will not be very impactful after all. That was the major chance for it to get seriously played up.Report
This is what I gathered from the piece. I didn’t read it all but was a bit surprised by the strength of the pushback.Report
This is part of the optics of geography. At home, the divisions define. Step further from home, and they bind.
In Key West, I once watched to men, both from Boston, one from Southie, the other from Hyde Park, meet. At home, they’d have been ready to rumble; and they admitted as much. But here, far from home and alone, they were neighbors, nearly brothers. Joined by the solidarity of their geography.
So when you’re at home, the proximity separates tribe. And when you’re far away, it combines them.Report
I am going to express a rare disagreement with my co-blogger.
I don’t think this gains traction for several reasons:
1) The overwhelming number of people outside of New York have no idea where or even what Staten Island is. They don’t really get the whole “five boroughs” thing, and whatever notion they have of New York City is pretty much encapsulated in Manhattan. In order for them to grasp a disparity of post-Sandy resources, they’d need to become much more savvy about what comprises the City, and the differences in population within the City. I don’t see that happening, certainly not in the time remaining.
2) The Chris Christie thing has defined the Obama-response narrative. I think people have made their impression, cemented by the effusive praise of a fiery Romney surrogate. I don’t think there is enough time for a change in narrative to overcome the cognitive inertia that has already taken hold.
3) I imagine the novelty of the Sandy story has already faded, and most of America’s interest in the story has begun to wane. People are innately self-interested, and there’s little stake in following the story very closely now that the drama of the storm itself has passed. So I suspect that people just aren’t paying attention enough for the story to have any further impact on the election.Report
I think you might be right that the impact won’t be as Rose speculated, but I don’t think folks need to know all the ins-and-outs of NY life for it to have. All they need to see is blue collar white folks complaining about the government ignoring them to have their worst fears confirmed. All they need to see is old white ladies standing next to destroyed suburban homes juxtaposed against brown city folk getting food rations to stir that pot up. It’s not JUST the realities, but the narrative that is being stirred up (which isn’t wholly inaccurate, mind you).Report
Staten Island and its relationship with the Verrazano Bridge is hard to describe unless you’ve known people who live on SI. I knew a nun who taught at St. John Villa on SI, Sr. Maura Hyland, arguably the best giver of small Christmas presents who ever lived. She explained a good deal of it to me.
They really are different people, Staten Islanders. They’ve tried to keep it that way, too.
At the Verrazano, the start point of the NY City Marathon, the city had lots of port-a-potties, stores of bottled water and generators set up for the race. CNN said they were secured behind a high fence and could have been used by the residents of SI. It’s easy for me to see why those people would be upset by these facts.Report
Glad to see the unions are more concerned about the recovery and not politics.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/shock-audio-ny-union-members-shout-scabs-and-scumbags-at-visiting-utility-crewsReport