another slightly more academic-sounding addition to a relentlessly partisan and biased liberal blogosphere
“The League should feature higher standards for honest assessment, especially since I’ve commented on this exact point here once already. Honestly, I’ve thought very highly of the League in spite of its generally left-leaning direction [….] But this pushing of a manifestly dishonest characterization even after being called on it makes me reevaluate whether the League might just be another slightly more academic-sounding addition to a relentlessly partisan and biased liberal blogosphere.” ~ Jason Arvak, in the comments
I think Jason misunderstands our purpose. I can’t speak for Will, but at least some of my motivation in lampooning or critiquing the “birthers” is because I think on a whole they’re a really, really bad mascot for conservatism in America. And perhaps it is the Tea Party/birther synthesis that seems to have happened, or perhaps it is the surprising number of Republicans who do actually either support the birther cause or are very sympathetic to it, or perhaps it is the number of fairly high-profile politicians and pundits who sympathize with this notion that Obama wasn’t born here, but whatever it is, I think it’s bad press. Very bad press. Like Jason, I agree that the liberal blogosphere and media is using this to their advantage. Of course they are. That’s politics. It’s a dirty game. And liberals play every bit as dirty as conservatives. They’ll continue to do so as long as the fringe-Right is being given overt sympathy from Republican leadership.
Over at Poligazette, Jason writes:
But where the “truthers” were treated by both mainstream Democrats and mainstream Republicans as marginal, the influence and power of the “birthers” is being systematically exaggerated by left-leaning reporters and bloggers. It is not hard to see why — exaggerating the reach of the “birthers” provides an easy excuse to brush aside legitimate debate with conservatives over Obama administration policy initiatives. After all, once they “prove” that all conservatives are crazy (also a long-standing theme among some liberals), there is no longer any need to actually debate them. And with the case for government-controlled health care collapsing beneath the combined weight of conservative criticism of its overreaching and the refusal of many liberals to compromise on those excesses, liberals are desperate for something to distract and delegitimize conservatives generally and “win” a major policy debate without having to actually debate the policy at all. Whipping up stories about “birthers” is perfect for such purposes.
Where Jason and I part ways is that Jason believes every post critical of birthers or of Republicans supporting birthers should come fair-and-balanced with some sort of addendum noting that not all conservatives support the birther movement. I guess I just never considered that people would think that – to me it’s obvious that this is not the case. And I guess I figured that if enough conservatives simply wrote against or spoke up against this nonsense, that it would pretty much clear things up for people who were in doubt. Jason disagrees, and goes so far as to imply that somehow by critiquing birthers and conservatives who support birthers we are in fact little more than an ‘academic-sounding addition to a relentlessly partisan and biased liberal blogosphere.’
I’ll have to remember that the next time I write a post arguing against the President’s health-care plan.
Now, judging by Jason’s post it’s pretty obvious that he’s been reading too many liberal blogs. Maybe if I were reading a bunch of liberal blogs and each of them was implying that all conservatives were birthers, I’d be more sensitive to this myself. I’m still not sure I’d append each of my posts with some “not-all-conservatives-are-birthers” disclaimer, though. I’ve never been terribly concerned with “fair and balanced.” That’s not because I consider “being fair to just be too much trouble” as Jason would have it. Trouble isn’t the issue. The issue is that I see a lot of rot on the underbelly of modern conservatism, and where it gets the most putrid, I like to point that out and call foul. This is because, by and large, I identify with conservatism, or at least with the “limited government, low taxes, fiscal sanity” side of conservatism.
I’m very glad places like NRO have come out with editorials denouncing the birthers; but I’m far more concerned with people like Senator Inhofe claiming that the birthers “have a point” or by the continued lunacy of many in the talk-radio right who I view as more of a liability than anything. You see, I’m in favor of limited government. I’m in favor of drastically scaling back the federal government in all its manifestations, from education to defense. Liberals, I hate to say it, will probably never be the ones to do this. (I’m not hopeful, in other words, of a viable Liberaltarianism, as much as that concept is appealing to me.)
Conservatives, I’m afraid, will probably not be either, though they at least ostensibly claim that as a goal. So I’d like to see honest conservatism rise up from the ashes of this mess of a movement we have now. I link regularly to conservatives and libertarians who I think are smart, honest and sincere. I think that description fits Jason pretty well. But I don’t see the need to hold back when I feel like things are being done and said and supported that I think are stupid. And yes, birthers and their cause and really the whole personality politics strategy when it comes to taking on the President, well, it’s all really stupid.
Not all conservatives engage in this stupid behavior, but a whole hell of a lot of them do. And I’m not going to repeat that phrase every time I point out something I disagree with that conservatives happen to be doing at any given moment.
Update.
Jason does not believe that “every post critical of birthers or of Republicans supporting birthers should come fair-and-balanced with some sort of addendum noting that not all conservatives support the birther movement.” He corrects me by adding that only posts “that are dedicated specifically to debates about how prevalent birthers are or are not should include such a caveat, since that caveat addresses precisely what is at issue in such posts.” That’s more fine-tuned, I admit, but I still don’t really see it as necessary at this point. That’s just a difference in style probably.
Bravo, I read a lot of liberal sites and I haven’t seen any that said all R’s are birthers. This is the classic no win/all victim theory of media criticism. If liberals crit birthers then R’s are oppressed and it is all the L’s fault. If the press covers birthers and the prominent politicians who are supporting the idea, then it’s the fault of liberals. And of course if the birthers got no attention, then they would be screaming bloody murder, those damn liberals are shutting us out.
Easy no muss, no fuss, it’s all the fault of the liberals, pity the poor oppressed conservatives.Report
Birthers and Tea Party Protesters are all in the business of throwing mud in the hope that some of it sticks. You cannot expect constructive thinking from these people. They even got the causes of the original Tea Party Protest wrong. It was the corrupt corporate conglomerate, the East India Company, that persuaded stock holders like George III and other influential stock holding members of Parliament to get a Tea Tax Act passed that would apply to American tea merchants but not to the East India company who, of course, had lots of tea in English warehouses to ship to the States. Shouldn’t that have given some pause for thought especially if they’d taken the trouble to read up on the Sub-Prime Fiasco and discovered Wall Street spent $5 billion between 2000 to 2008 trying to get a more relaxed financial regulation regime amongst other objectives. Both Tea Tax Act and Sub-Prime Fiasco are great ways for joint market and state initiatives to undermine a country through greed.Report
Not EVERY post about birthers should include such a caveat. My point was that those posts that are dedicated specifically to debates about how prevalent birthers are or are not should include such a caveat, since that caveat addresses precisely what is at issue in such posts.
Will chose not to do that. Even when challenged, he has continued to press forward with his misleading selection of data points that exaggerates how prevalent birthers are among “mainstream conservatives”.
It is distressing that comments you disagree with are considered acceptable material for a full post mocking and belittling the commenter. My initial impression of the League as an exception to the general incivility of the blogosphere appears to have been very wrong.Report
Okay. Dude. Seriously. I didn’t mock you. I even said that you fit the “honest, sincere, etc.” description. If that’s mocking than I guess I’m screwed. You called out my post yesterday for the very same reason you called out Will’s today even though I didn’t even mention anything you’re talking about. So right now you’re just coming across as cranky. I wasn’t mocking you. I was laying out my case in longer-form.Report
Yeah, I re-read the post again and perhaps I’m just being cranky at this point. Complaint withdrawn, with apologies. 🙂Report
Fair enough. Thanks.Report
You might want to similarly re-examine the whole of the exchange, since the same paranoia you’ve just identified in yourself is equally present in all of your posts on this subject.Report
E.D. and Smith, great summations. Daniel Larison at Eunomia also has a good post up on this. His idea that Americanists believe Obama cannot possibly act as the high priest of the religion of Americanism hits much closer to home than the standard passing off of the whole thing as racism although I believe that to be the case. Conservatism may not need a disclaimer so much as a full divorce from know-nothing populism.Report
The problem then becomes how to execute a divorce while there exists a substantial contingent of enemies who want the association to exist regardless?Report
Therein lies the rub, methinks…Report
“The problem then becomes how to execute a divorce while there exists a substantial contingent of enemies who want the association to exist regardless?”
As an official spokesman of all liberals, perhaps I can provide some insight.
First off, we are not enemies. We’re fellow citizens with different opinions. I know, I know…why acknowledge that when war metaphors work so much better?
Here’s why: It’s a very short leap from “liberals are enemies” to “the liberal in the White House is not a citizen.” A very short leap.
Secondly, liberals would love to debate and argue against sane, reasonable conservatives. Our (liberal) interests are not served by whacked out, fringers like the birthers or tea partiers. (Notice how I refrained from calling them tea baggers. Respect…it’s useful!)Report
Oh I’m sure the liberals will back off when they realize how sincerely some conservatives want to be objective and fair. (snicker)
You have to be blind to not see the attempt by most liberals to subtly, and not so subtly, associate birthers, tea party-ers and conservatives. The conservatives, many of them, did this against the liberals by associating them with the far left fringe — the funny part is that it culminated in the liberals placing Micahel Moore beside Carter — LOL — The media loved it! The liberals didn’t eat the far left, they embraced them!
The conservatives can’t embrace the birthers and tea part-ers, because the media would completely destroy them.
The liberals are winning the political war as the conservatives battle one another. What a fucking strategy!Report
Uh-oh, here comes a well-earned Lefties-Accuse-Them-Of-Being-Righties-Righties-Accuse-Them-Of-Being-Lefties self-congratulation…. Take you bow, Gentlemen! (Seriously, it’s well-earned, and you have every right to trumpet this as evidence of your reasonable-center(-right) bona fides. …I would!)Report
Jason strikes me as more whiny than cranky. Boo-hoo the ever evil liberals are misrepresenting god’s own people, conservatives. Jason, a request, how about one link that makes the claim that all republicans/conservatives are birthers. Perhaps that odious article from the Village Voice you mentioned a few days ago.Report
Well, Barry was born in France, everyone knows that!
BTW, how’s that ‘health care’ thing workin’ out for you?Report
“without having to actually debate the policy at all” –
It seems to me that it’s the Tea-Party mobs shouting down their congressmen at town hall meetings who are refusing to allow debate.Report