67 thoughts on “Breaking Vexillological News”

  1. Bottom left, no question.

    I wonder what Australia would have done if the republican referendum had passed.

    Hawaii needs a new flag.

    (edited because I accidentally said bottom right.)Report

    2. Oh, yeah, Hawaii totally ought to have a different flag. We should have no Union Jacks on any of our U.S. flags after, you know all that independence business that got started back in 1775 and which has worked out rather well since then.

      I’m also a little leery of any designs incorporating the St. Andrew’s Cross after 1865, but that’s for a very different reason.Report

      1. The St Andrews cross on its own (a la Alabama and Florida) I don’t care as much about. The whole confederate emblem, though, needs to go for obvious reasons. Only one state left (as well as a preferred redraft of Georgia.Report

          1. Because while the Stars and Bars pattern is preferable to the Rebel emblem, it’s notnot by much.

            It should be carried out by whatever method their elected representatives see fit in accordance with state law.Report

            1. Fat chance of that. The local NCAAP chapter asked its high school to change the mascot from the Rebels and were overwhelmingly outnumbered by people who wanted to keep it. The local paper wrote an editorial about how they shouldn’t worry about stuff like that until all the problems with public schools have been fixed. (So, about a quarter to never.)

              I am afraid Georgia is going to need its own Dylann Roof before they understand the negative power of the symbols they’ve chosen.Report

  3. Either of the black and white options. They are as non-flag like as I could imagine, and therefore they should absolutely be a flag. I wonder what the swirly one is representative of? Waves?Report

      1. Perfect! That’s exactly what I was going for in my national flag! 😉 But… maybe the swirly one is representative of the tribal community in the area?Report

              1. That’s actually the one I like best. Not only is it simple, but if NZ has to go to war for some reason, it’s the only design that could plausibly strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, since it resembles a stylized powerful wave (it would make a decent dive flag for the same reason).Report

    3. @miss-mary

      The black part of the spiral is a koru, a traditional Maori depiction of a fern (it represents the fern just as it’s starting to uncoil from its bud). It’s a common motif in Maori art, and is one of the symbols New Zealanders think of as a New Zealand symbol.Report

        1. @chris

          I think its my favourite of the group too. I think the silver fern is a bit too fiddly for a flag design, and the Lockwood designs are too busy – a flag should have only 1 device.

          By contrast the Modern Koru design is singular – there’s no flag in the world that looks like that and even at rest it will stand out.Report

  4. Man, all of the prospective replacements would get a low grade score on the flag assessment tests; Objects everywhere. I suspect the current flag may end up carrying the day.Report

    1. I think it does okay. Reviewing the Five Rules:

      1. Keep it Simple – Check, nope, nope, and check. For #2 and #3, though, I think it’s a balance with #5. I think what they lose here, they win by being distinct and instantly recognizable.
      2. Meaningful symbolism – Check, check, check, check
      3. Two of three colors – Check, nope, check, check. #2 goes over by one color. Still, that’s why I went with #3.
      4. No lettering or seals – Check, check, check, check
      5. Distinct – Check, check, check, check.Report

    1. But they’re not part of the UK, right? Just the commonwealth. Seems like the Union Jack makes as much sense for New Zealand as it does for Canada. Which is to say, not at all to me: it’s a flag representing the union of Scotland and England, why should it be on the flag of a country halfway around the world from either of those two “United” Kingdoms? (And those inclined to say “history” hafta explain why only part of the country’s history gets on the flag.)Report

        1. I think in most of the commonwealth countries where it’s used, it is a case of “it’s our history” with “history” being written by the winners, so to speak. New Zealand is a different animal in that respect: the Maori were far more successful than just about any other native population at holding off European advances. They basically fought them to a draw, and it’s reflected in the governance of the country.

          Of course, I’m an American, so I think one of the first thing a colony should do after shedding the shackles of conquest (or before, if you have the time and a seamstress handy) is come up with a new flag. Also a national anthem, preferably one based on a drinking song.Report

      2. Well, for me at least @gingergene I do love the Union Jack, I think it is a good flag. Just not for Hawaii. (Also, the Union Jack unites Cornwall, Wales and North Ireland also. Not to be a pedant or anything…)

        So a big part of it for me really comes down to “Why?” Which is why I really would like James K.’s opinion on it.Report

        1. Eh, what have the Welsh given the UK besides their extra vowels? (That’s my current theory about where all the extra u’s came from. And Welsh is definitely missing some.)Report

              2. http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/t50.html

                However, in words like “low” and “bow,” one can make a good case that the letter w represents a vowel. Both of these words end with one or another of the diphthongs of modern English. In each case, the second part of the diphthong is represented by w. By the way, l, m, n, and r may also sometimes represent vowels; that is, in English there are vowels that are routinely represented by these letters. They show up at the ends of the words “bottle,” “bottom,” “button,” and “butter.”

                Report

              3. I don’t hear a difference between the “w” sound in “bow”, the “w” sound in “bowing” and the “w” sound in “wing”. They all sound the same to me. Which one am I saying wrong?Report

              5. So, it’s doing double duty? A vowelsonant? Or a consowel? My understanding of linguistics is minimal; the only diphthongs I know about are in German, and they’re all part of the standard 5 all-vowels-all-the-time group, although they do include umlauts.Report

              6. I’m not an expert by any means, but that’s my understanding of dipthongs, yes.

                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diphthong

                “a gliding monosyllabic speech sound (as the vowel combination at the end of toy) that starts at or near the articulatory position for one vowel and moves to or toward the position of another”

                (Note though that even in the definition I posted above, they worded it as “one can make a good case that it represents a vowel”. English is slippery.)Report

    2. @aarondavid

      There are certainty many New Zealanders who agree with you, but the reason we have the Union Jack on our flag is that at the time we were a colonial possession of the British Empire. That hasn’t been true since shortly after World War Two.Report

      2. While you’re at it, you guys should change your national anthem to the Haka. That shit is awesomely terrifying. (Although I do like rhyming “our free land” with “New Zealand”.)Report

          1. As well they should have. I wouldn’t want to be on a battlefield facing down the All Blacks, much less a trained fighting unit. (And here is where I joke that the difference between rugby and warfare is that soldiers get to wear helmets.)Report

  6. The real way to choose a new national flag is through a giant country wide game of capture the flag. Divide the nation into four teams and assign a flag to each team. If a team can host their flag at the capital than it becomes a new flag.Report

  9. I prefer the lower left. I think it does a good job of including a distinctive NZ symbol while being a natural evolution of their previous flag.

    I’m really disappointed, though, that the short list includes two designs that are so similar. Absent IRV or similar, it screws with the vote, and it also knocks more distinctive choices out of the running. If you haven’t already, take a look at the long list of forty flags from which these four were chosen. There are several other designs that really stand out.Report

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