Breaking Vexillological News
New Zealand is having a contest to select the new flag for the nation. After one of these four is selected by a first round of voting, there will be a national referendum to see if voters prefer the existing flag to the new contender.
Not being a New Zealander myself,* I had no idea that this silver fern was an object of national pride to Kiwis, but apparently it is and good on for them. You’ll notice that two of the proposed designs are pretty much identical, excepting the change of color from the upper hoist quadrant from black to red. Those were offered by the same designer.
Apparently, right now only a very narrow majority of poll respondents, likely within the margin of error, favor retaining the current flag with its Union Jack in the upper hoist quadrant and a red-star Southern Cross design in the opposite field.
This is easily the hottest thing to hit vexillology in a decade.
* New Zealand is the direct object in one of my stock arguments about the reasonability of relying on the statements of other people. I have never been to New Zealand. I have never seen New Zealand. I have seen media that was purportedly made in or set in New Zealand, and I have met people who claim to have been to New Zealand. But all of those things are hearsay. Why, then, is it reasonable for me to believe that New Zealand exists, but unreasonable to believe that a place like Narnia or Mordor similarly exists?
Burt Likko is the pseudonym of an attorney in Southern California and the managing editor of Ordinary Times. His interests include Constitutional law with a special interest in law relating to the concept of separation of church and state, cooking, good wine, and bad science fiction movies. Follow his sporadic Tweets at @burtlikko, and his Flipboard at Burt Likko.
Creator: Trikosko, Marion S., photographer; Related Name: O'Halloran, Thomas J. , photographer [Public domain][/caption]
Photo by Gage Skidmore via Wikimedia Commons[/caption]
Photo by Gage Skidmore via Wikimedia Commons[/caption]
AG William Barr meets with DOJ officials. Photo by The United States Department of Justice [Public domain][/caption]
Bottom left, no question.
I wonder what Australia would have done if the republican referendum had passed.
Hawaii needs a new flag.
(edited because I accidentally said bottom right.)Report
I’m sort of partial to the top right, myself, the black-and-blue version of that design.Report
That one is next best.Report
No, it’s best-best because of contrast. Burt is right and you are wrong.
And you should feel bad.Report
Four colors to the others’ three. The vexillological merits are clear.Report
Double fail, it still has four colors, note the stars.
Vexillological Head Shot! BOOMReport
@patrick
Bottom left has red white and blue, which has the correct 2-3 colors.
Upper right also has black, putting it over 3.
Thus bottom left is better.Report
But it’s still uglier.
I’d like the black-and-blue fern even better if the stars weren’t red on the inside; if they were all white or all black.Report
Yeah. Take the red out of the stars and I might flip my preference.Report
In your face, @will-truman !Report
Oh, yeah, Hawaii totally ought to have a different flag. We should have no Union Jacks on any of our U.S. flags after, you know all that independence business that got started back in 1775 and which has worked out rather well since then.
I’m also a little leery of any designs incorporating the St. Andrew’s Cross after 1865, but that’s for a very different reason.Report
The St Andrews cross on its own (a la Alabama and Florida) I don’t care as much about. The whole confederate emblem, though, needs to go for obvious reasons. Only one state left (as well as a preferred redraft of Georgia.Report
Why do you want a redraft of GAs flag?Report
Should the people of GA get a vote in the matter or have another flag foisted on them by liberals like Roy Barnes?Report
Because while the Stars and Bars pattern is preferable to the Rebel emblem, it’s notnot by much.
It should be carried out by whatever method their elected representatives see fit in accordance with state law.Report
Fat chance of that. The local NCAAP chapter asked its high school to change the mascot from the Rebels and were overwhelmingly outnumbered by people who wanted to keep it. The local paper wrote an editorial about how they shouldn’t worry about stuff like that until all the problems with public schools have been fixed. (So, about a quarter to never.)
I am afraid Georgia is going to need its own Dylann Roof before they understand the negative power of the symbols they’ve chosen.Report
A review of the actual submissions for the new NZ flag is one of those things Google was made for.Report
Early favorites from the also-rans: the PM with a charming and patriotic kiwi and this important national identity brand.Report
I hadn’t seen that second one! I can’t believe they didn’t go with it.
All of this makes me want to go back and re-watch Flight of the Conchords.Report
Kiwis come to Austin:
Report
How could a kiwi with a laser beam shooting out of its eye not make the final cut?Report
There’s only one possible answer: a vexillogical conspiracy!Report
The same away a kiwi with a rainbow coming out of its butt doesn’t make it: the fix is in.Report
Clearly they should have picked the kiwi with the laser eyes!Report
“Bitches don’t know about ma LAZERS” could be the caption.
Yeah..inside joke..still funny.Report
Either of the black and white options. They are as non-flag like as I could imagine, and therefore they should absolutely be a flag. I wonder what the swirly one is representative of? Waves?Report
They look like tattoos or new age bumper stickers.Report
Perfect! That’s exactly what I was going for in my national flag! 😉 But… maybe the swirly one is representative of the tribal community in the area?Report
I think that would make them wonderful flags too, especially the swirly one.Report
Evidence that it could be a tribute to NZ as the seat of Maori culture.Report
At least I called it on the tattoo, then.Report
That’s actually the one I like best. Not only is it simple, but if NZ has to go to war for some reason, it’s the only design that could plausibly strike fear into the hearts of their enemies, since it resembles a stylized powerful wave (it would make a decent dive flag for the same reason).Report
My first thought was that it actually was a dive flag.Report
Seems like it’s a variation on the Koru.Report
@miss-mary
The black part of the spiral is a koru, a traditional Maori depiction of a fern (it represents the fern just as it’s starting to uncoil from its bud). It’s a common motif in Maori art, and is one of the symbols New Zealanders think of as a New Zealand symbol.Report
Well, now it’s definitely my choice.Report
@chris
I think its my favourite of the group too. I think the silver fern is a bit too fiddly for a flag design, and the Lockwood designs are too busy – a flag should have only 1 device.
By contrast the Modern Koru design is singular – there’s no flag in the world that looks like that and even at rest it will stand out.Report
Man, all of the prospective replacements would get a low grade score on the flag assessment tests; Objects everywhere. I suspect the current flag may end up carrying the day.Report
I think it does okay. Reviewing the Five Rules:
1. Keep it Simple – Check, nope, nope, and check. For #2 and #3, though, I think it’s a balance with #5. I think what they lose here, they win by being distinct and instantly recognizable.
2. Meaningful symbolism – Check, check, check, check
3. Two of three colors – Check, nope, check, check. #2 goes over by one color. Still, that’s why I went with #3.
4. No lettering or seals – Check, check, check, check
5. Distinct – Check, check, check, check.Report
6. If you can work an animal with lasers shooting out of its eyes into the flag, ignore Rules 1-5.Report
First, I await James K.’s thoughts. Second, this isn’t Hawaii, keep the Union Jack there.Report
But they’re not part of the UK, right? Just the commonwealth. Seems like the Union Jack makes as much sense for New Zealand as it does for Canada. Which is to say, not at all to me: it’s a flag representing the union of Scotland and England, why should it be on the flag of a country halfway around the world from either of those two “United” Kingdoms? (And those inclined to say “history” hafta explain why only part of the country’s history gets on the flag.)Report
Alternately, the Union Jack makes as much sense for New Zealand as it does for Australia…
Which is to say that man, thought not all, Commonwealth nations do use the jack.Report
I think in most of the commonwealth countries where it’s used, it is a case of “it’s our history” with “history” being written by the winners, so to speak. New Zealand is a different animal in that respect: the Maori were far more successful than just about any other native population at holding off European advances. They basically fought them to a draw, and it’s reflected in the governance of the country.
Of course, I’m an American, so I think one of the first thing a colony should do after shedding the shackles of conquest (or before, if you have the time and a seamstress handy) is come up with a new flag. Also a national anthem, preferably one based on a drinking song.Report
Well, for me at least @gingergene I do love the Union Jack, I think it is a good flag. Just not for Hawaii. (Also, the Union Jack unites Cornwall, Wales and North Ireland also. Not to be a pedant or anything…)
So a big part of it for me really comes down to “Why?” Which is why I really would like James K.’s opinion on it.Report
Eh, what have the Welsh given the UK besides their extra vowels? (That’s my current theory about where all the extra u’s came from. And Welsh is definitely missing some.)Report
‘w’ is a vowel in Welsh. You should believe me because my friend who likes languages told me.Report
Your friend is correct.
“a, e, i, o, u, and always y, fishers! Also w.”Report
W is a vowel in English, as in words like “how” and “row.”Report
So in “however” and “rowing”, w is a vowel, but in “weather” and “wing”, it’s a consonant? I’m having a hard time parsing that.Report
http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/t50.html
Report
I don’t hear a difference between the “w” sound in “bow”, the “w” sound in “bowing” and the “w” sound in “wing”. They all sound the same to me. Which one am I saying wrong?Report
It’s not that the W is different per se, it’s that it modifies the sound of the O. O normally sounds like ‘Oh’ (or ‘Ooh’, if you have a couple), but here it sounds like ‘Ow’.Report
So, it’s doing double duty? A vowelsonant? Or a consowel? My understanding of linguistics is minimal; the only diphthongs I know about are in German, and they’re all part of the standard 5 all-vowels-all-the-time group, although they do include umlauts.Report
I’m not an expert by any means, but that’s my understanding of dipthongs, yes.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diphthong
(Note though that even in the definition I posted above, they worded it as “one can make a good case that it represents a vowel”. English is slippery.)Report
@aarondavid
There are certainty many New Zealanders who agree with you, but the reason we have the Union Jack on our flag is that at the time we were a colonial possession of the British Empire. That hasn’t been true since shortly after World War Two.Report
Speak of the Devil!
And thank you, that answers any questions I had.Report
While you’re at it, you guys should change your national anthem to the Haka. That shit is awesomely terrifying. (Although I do like rhyming “our free land” with “New Zealand”.)Report
@gingergene
In World War II, the Maori Battalion was one of the few Allied units that legitimately terrified the Afrika Korps.Report
As well they should have. I wouldn’t want to be on a battlefield facing down the All Blacks, much less a trained fighting unit. (And here is where I joke that the difference between rugby and warfare is that soldiers get to wear helmets.)Report
Canada ditched their union-jack based flag for one based on a distinctive leaf, and that’s proved to be the right choice. Not sure what makes NZ different.Report
The real way to choose a new national flag is through a giant country wide game of capture the flag. Divide the nation into four teams and assign a flag to each team. If a team can host their flag at the capital than it becomes a new flag.Report
Top left. Or just go ahead and use the All Blacks’ flag directly.Report
SecondedReport
Meh, all the choices look rather cartoonish.Report
I prefer the lower left. I think it does a good job of including a distinctive NZ symbol while being a natural evolution of their previous flag.
I’m really disappointed, though, that the short list includes two designs that are so similar. Absent IRV or similar, it screws with the vote, and it also knocks more distinctive choices out of the running. If you haven’t already, take a look at the long list of forty flags from which these four were chosen. There are several other designs that really stand out.Report
@alan-scott
Yeah, those two designs were produced by Kyle Lockwood, who was on the selection panel. It was a waste of a shortlist space to put them both on there.Report