If Your Customers don’t Understand Your Product, it’s Your Fault
I’ve been trying to learn Mandarin. It’s not exactly easy. I would really like to be able to read Mandarin since I think that’s how I became reasonably good at English, but during my trip to China, I realized that almost no one who learns a language starts by reading it. Our daughter knows a lot of Mandarin—way more than me, but she can’t read a word. Someday, this verbal fluency will be what enables her to read.
So, I went in search of ways to learn spoken Mandarin and put reading to the side.
There is a bunch of research out there that people learn a language when they are given comprehensible input. If someone waves a cookie in front of a kid who has tasted one before and asks “do you want a cookie?”, the kid will be in a good position to learn the word “cookie”. This is not as likely when a kid hears something about multicollinearity.
But I’m not a child. How do I replicate these sorts of experiences so that I can listen to Mandarin while understanding what is being said?
There are several options.
Assimil, for example, is a book that has a bunch of dialogues. A woman might be at a train station talking to a friend who needs to buy tickets. The book comes with slow, enunciated recordings of what is being said. The book has the phonetics and English translations. This is a great way to learn, and I think a lot of successful Mandarin speakers have used it.
I don’t know that it’s the best way though. The dialogues use useful vocabulary, but they aren’t actually interesting. You listen to Assimil because you want to learn the language, not because you are engaged with the lives of the characters. This problem infects almost every language-learning option out there.
PopupChinese is the only exception to the rule I have found. Even the very short absolute beginner dialogues are genuinely funny. Other times, they manage to wring an enormous amount of drama into just a few lines. I have yet to find anyone else’s content who is engaging at all. It’s a nice change of pace from it’s main competitor, Chinesepod, whose dialogues seem to revolve almost entirely around the same few situations, never with humor. Chinesepod does try to entertain you, but it does so solely through the charisma of its English speakers who explain the content of the vanilla dialogues in enthusiastic early morning mix-radio-station voices. People do seem to like them, but how much of your Mandarin study time do you want to spend listening to English? The idea of comprehensible input is that you need to listen to things you can understand in your target language, not English.
That said, Chinesepod has many, many more episodes available than PopupChinese. Whenever people compare the two products, they bring up this comparison. Personally, I feel this is a bad metric to use. PopupChinese has far fewer episodes, but it has enough episodes at each level for you to progress to the next one. As they say on one of their forums:
…if people want to treat us as a stockpile of listening materials there is nothing we can do about that and even there I think we’re hands-down the best stockpile around. I’m guessing you’ve never thought much about *why* we produce all of this irrelevant stuff, and leaving aside the fact that we could easily ramp up more boring content if we felt it was useful…
I understand this, but I take issue with the underlying attitude and assumptions. If we customers are not supposed to use PopupChinese as just a repository of episodes, how are we supposed to use it? I Yahoo-ed for an answer (since I can’t use Google in China) and didn’t find anything. I searched for the pedalogical philosophy of PopupChinese and found nothing. I logged into the site, where I am premium subscriber and see no guidance as to how to use the site as anything other than repository of episodes. If there is a PopupChinese blog where this sort of thing is talked about, there are no obvious links from the PopupChinese site itself.
I understand the frustration of PopupChinese in having their superior product be misunderstood, but it’s unproductive to blame their customers for that misunderstanding when the blame seems solidly in their court.
“The customer is always right” is a dead trope now. Still, it’s a good idea for businesses to internalize the idea that if the customer doesn’t understand the product, it’s the business that messed up somehow. There are limits, of course. Someone will occasionally walk into your hardware store and not understand why you don’t offer dry cleaning. In general though, the customer being an idiot should be the last resort. The first should be that your own communication was unclear, inconsistent, or incomplete.
This is the problem with American universities! Everyone is confusing their product of pure intellectual advancement with one of career training.Report
Still, it’s a good idea for businesses to internalize the idea that if the customer doesn’t understand the product, it’s the business that messed up somehow.
Whatever happened to Buyer Beware???
More to the point, tho, is this: why is any of this an issue in which fault can be ascribed? If the business model is to make money providing a language learning service and the business is achieving that goal, irrespective of customer’s “understanding”, then what more are they – as a business! – supposed to do? I mean, I understand an argument that it may be in PopupChinese’s best long term interests to maximize user-friendliness (cuz it’ll generate new customers via word of mouth, say) but why think that they have an obligation to? Why think that any blame can be ascribed here? WHAT ARE YOU BLAMING THEM FOR?Report
I guess this is a reference to something else, but I have no idea what.Report
Just responding to Vik’s post. I’m working under the assumption that he wrote it for a purpose which goes beyond mere complaining.Report
IIRC he has an advanced degree in something related to business management. I assume this is a post about business strategy. I don’t even see this as being a complaint at all. Overall he seems happy with the product but thinks it could be marketed better.Report
Maybe you can help out then: what’s the point of this post? That a good business model ought to include good customer service?
{Man, I hope it’s more than that…}
If so, why? Because they owe it to the customer? (!!!???)Report
I think this: “Still, it’s a good idea for businesses to internalize the idea that if the customer doesn’t understand the product, it’s the business that messed up somehow.”
The underlying assumption here is that businesses are typically aimed at making money. If you’re making less money than you would like to be, and think that this is due in part to customers not understanding your product, you should try to figure out how you can resolve that issue issue.
I guess? I don’t know. The fact that you don’t get it makes me question whether I get it, because it seemed pretty clear to me. I’ll let Vikram take it from here.Report
Still, it’s a good idea for Vikram to internalize the idea that if Stillwater doesn’t understand the post, it’s Vikram that messed up somehow.Report
Alan, what’s weird about your response is that I think I do understand it. 🙂Report
+1 Alan, I couldn’t have said it better. In particular, if something isn’t clear to a regular reader like Stillwater, it’s probably fair to say that I had room to improve the post before publishing.Report
You’re kinda illustrating the OP’s point about the lowest-common-denominator customer, @stillwater. Vikram’s making a point about selling a product in a wide-open competitive market. Even if they do that perfectly, it’s not going to get your shirts any cleaner, because they sell hammers.Report
They don’t have an obligation to, but it would be in their own best interests to represent their terrific product in the light it deserves.Report
“why is any of this an issue in which fault can be ascribed?”
I’d suggest that Vikram’s upset comes from the quoted PopupChinese forum post, where they complain that users who ask for more episodes aren’t understanding the intent of the service. I think that what Vikram is saying is that the post should be on the front page, not buried in a forum, because the fact that people are asking about it means they don’t understand what PopupChinese is trying to give them.Report
More, I think, that they should have some kind of clarification somewhere as to what users are supposed to do with the service. All they have are the episodes; when people want more of their product, it seems reasonable to ask for more episodes. Apparently PopupChinese has some kind of reason for not doing that, but that reason is rather unclear at the moment.Report
Dude! Buy some chinese translations of video games! Then pick up some chinese subtitles (with the Chinese spoken).
You aren’t the only one who learns by reading… .Report
Just an FYI …
The full text of Vikram’s since deleted post, “There are no accidents”, remains on my Netvibes feed.
This is the first time I’ve mentioned it, but it’s not at all the first time I’ve noticed OT posting a piece that was, ultimately, immediately deleted from OT.
Page not found isn’t really covering all your bases. Just saying.Report
Obviously you were meant to see it.Report
I deleted it because it wasn’t up to even my very self-forgiving quality standards. That said, it wasn’t and isn’t secret. I noticed it on my own RSS reader too.Report
Though now that I think about it, that would be reason to get rid of it from the feed too. So I do apologize for whatever time you spent reading it.Report
For what it’s worth, the post is crystal clear to me. It’s not the customers’ job to figure out why they’d want what you’re selling, but as Vikram points out, a lot of businesses fall at this hurdle. Same thing with artists—people put in a lot of time and energy in creating something, then get strangely bashful about beating the bushes to tell people about it. This is a primary reason (besides sucking) that I failed as an artist; I felt like, if you can’t see how obviously great this is, I don’t want to waste my time explaining it to you.
I’ve never studied Mandarin, but I have been fascinated by the discussions at Language Log, whose main posters are native-English-speakers who are longtime scholars and instructors of Mandarin and Cantonese. Their complaints about Chinese-language pedagogy track yours, Vikram. Chinese languages are hard to learn, and there is vigorous debate about how to go about teaching them.
For foreign learners, Japanese has many of the same challenges of Mandarin. There really is no one approach to studying it, because for the most part, foreign speakers of Japanese are typically aiming at a level of competency that is nowhere near fluency. Being able to chitchat socially, or get your hands on products and services, or reassure clients/landlords/in-laws/taxi drivers that you can follow their instructions and not cause a scene is sufficient in most of the situations that most foreigners find themselves in.
PopupChinese seems like a cool idea that will serve most beginning Chinese enthusiasts well. I’ve just listened to the one episode, but it imparted some really useful knowledge on a few specific points in a very engaging and compact way. Again, I can’t judge the language itself, but I’ve been in this business myself for decades, and these guys seem to deliver a real sense of “hey, I learned something” in only ten minutes, which is enormously hard to do.Report
This might not be an accident. I’ve read that blog and liked it a lot. I haven’t followed them so far as to get the 1960s DeFrancis books they speak so highly about yet though.Report