Sunday!
So I was skeptical about Daredevil. He’s never really been one of my favorite superheroes. As a supporting character? I think he’s pretty good. Throw him in a Punisher comic book and have him get into an argument with Frank Castle about the importance of this or that part of the process and the scene writes itself. Or throw him into a scene with Spider-Man and have him play the part of the darker guy. In any case, he’s best when he’s giving arguments that the main character needs to address.
He *IS* a lawyer, I suppose.
Anyhow, he was kind of a mash-up between Doctor Midnight (a personal favorite from the Golden Age) and Spider-Man and, while I could see how someone else could dig him, I never really dug him.
Even when Frank Miller gave us “Born Again” (a spectacularly Frank Millery kinda story), my response was that I liked the Frank Miller stuff, not necessarily the Daredevil stuff. They turned Daredevil from a more happy-go-lucky wise-cracking guy into a brooding Catholic (no religion). He went from being a mash-up of Dr. M and Spidey to being a mash-up of Dr. M and Batman. Saints preserve us.
Well, in 2010, there was a Punisher story (written by Jason Aaron) that came out that focused on a (alternate universe) Kingpin/Punisher story: Punisher Max – Kingpin. (Warning: Dark. Bleak. Violent. No, more violent than that.) It told the story of the Kingpin’s rise to power and *THIS* was a really interesting (though dark, bleak, and violent) story. What kind of person becomes a Boss of Bosses? Well, here’s one theory.
The Daredevil series on Netflix is telling the story of Frank Miller’s Daredevil and Jason Aaron’s Kingpin. It’s pretty dark. It’s pretty bleak. It’s pretty violent. It’s a universe where violence solves problems, torture provides answers, and there’s nothing wrong with any particular badguy that you can’t fix with a blunt object.
I really can’t recommend it. It’s a morally confused show about moral idiots fighting moral degenerates and gaining ground whenever they’re willing to be even worse and it relies on body horror to get you to respond physically (I’ve yelped at two or three different scenes). It’s like they asked “How would Mel Gibson tell the story about Daredevil if Daredevil was Jack Bauer?”
If you can get past that, though, it’s a fascinating show. I keep wanting to see what will happen next (even as I know I’ll be watching through my fingers).
The main character is okay as Daredevil and downright awesome as Matt Murdock (Maribou also pointed out to me that the actor playing him is, and this is a direct quote, “oh yeah”), the guy who plays Foggy does a great job playing bumbling sidekick who, when out of his beastie’s shadow, is capable of letting you see why someone like Murdock would hang with him, the Kingpin is FREAKING AWESOME, the Kingpin’s lieutenant is smarmy and oily and you sit up whenever he comes on the screen because you just love hating him that much, and Rosario Dawson plays Night Nurse. (The office secretary isn’t that strongly written, she mostly reacts, but… hey. You can’t have everything.)
If you have been waiting for a darn-near ultra-violent Superhero who isn’t The Punisher to show up on television, well… this is what you’ve been waiting for.
Saints preserve us.
So… what are you reading and/or watching?
(Photo is “Movie Night“, taken by Ginny, used under a creative commons license.)
I’m about four or five episodes in to Daredevil. They just introduced Detective Goren as Kingpin, which has me kind of jazzed. Got stalled, but not for lack of being entertained. I may not finish it before The Americans wraps up and Daredevil will have to improve a lot for me to finish it rather than jumping to The Americans and then jumping back.
Audiowise, I’m listening to Graphic Audio. Specifically, Countdown. Which is kind of obnoxiously warped and twisted (Really? They needed to have a God Of Stillborn Children made out of infant carcuses throwing fetal matter at the hero? Seriously?). I listened to it a few years ago, and it was sufficiently unimpressive that I didn’t remember much aside from the fetus-monster. But I want to listen to the story that succeeds it, and since I didn’t remember much, that meant going back and listening to it again. Almost done, though, and then on to Final Crisis.
Graphic Audio has really been ramping up their Marvel collection. I went on a buying binge the other day and may be introducing myself to the Marvel Universe more thoroughly soon! Given how DC is Ruining Everything, my interest level in Marvel is higher than it’s ever been. We need a dang third party. I mean, a third comprehensive stable of superhero books. Dynamite isn’t quite it.
tldr… it’s superheroes for me, up and down, right now.Report
Just picked up Hell and Good Company: The Spanish Civil War and the World It Made by Richard Rhodes
Also reading The Age of Unreason: France 1914-1940.Report
@saul-degraw
I read this the other day, and thought that it would be something that you would really enjoy:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1967/05/20/a-roomful-of-hovings-rorimer
(I am also sure that you have a subscription to The New Yorker…)Report
OH I FORGOT TO MENTION!
The fight choreography does *NOT* rely on shaky-cam.Report
Consider this a request for a DD post that escapes the bounds of the Mindless Diversions rules.
Oh goodness yes. One of the MCU’s great strengths is it’s devotion to equal-opportunity eye candy.
You are so, so wrong. Karen is the stealth main character of DD, much in the way that Elizabeth Swann was the stealth main character of the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie. It’s her actions and choices that drive the plot forward, even if other characters are getting most of the fight scenes.
Violent comic books, in fact. My new commute takes me past a library with a good Graphic Novel section, so I grabbed some Frank Miller Daredevil, and Alan Moore’s From Hell.Report
Oooh, an MD extra on what Religion means to Comic Book Inhabitants?Report
And yet, you wouldn’t watch Hannibal…;-)
(letting it go…still haven’t gotten around to DD yet).
Watching:
Justified wrapped up (sniff). It wasn’t perfect, but I will miss Raylan and Art and Tim and Boyd and Dewey and Wynn and…
I guess last week’s Mad Men was divisive. I loved it.
Finished Fortitude. Loved it. Can’t wait to see where it is going next.
The Americans: Holy. Fishing. Crap. So much I want to talk about. Densest, most detailed show on TV. When I get to a real computer I might try to put up a spoilerrific post, if anyone else is interested.
Watched King Kong, 1933 OG (Original Gorilla) version, with The Boy last night. Been quite a few years since I watched it; it retains quite a bit of its elemental power, though at least I didn’t cry this time. It’s WAY more violent than I recalled.
Naturally, he loved it. We tried Semi-OG Godzilla, (the American edit with Raymond Burr), this AM, but he wasn’t feeling it. He is watching Kong again rt now with his mom.Report
For the record: I’m not sure that I’d watch “Kingpin”.
The show based on the character from this show, I mean. Not the movie of the same name. I’d watch the heck out of that! I’m going to log off and watch it right now!Report
Well, I know you didn’t get far with Hannibal, but if your worry was that he was the “protagonist” (arguably, he was at least co-protagonist in season 1, even as he manipulated and gaslighted Graham and others), he’s pretty clearly the antagonist in season 2 and presumably beyond, as there no longer remain any illusions as to what he is. If that helps. It’s a serialized show with a predetermined destination, not a procedural (though it has elements of that), so there wasn’t much chance that Hannibal was going to continue to be presented as anything like the hero of the piece for very long.Report
I will give it another shot. Someday.Report
I would suggest watching the 1996 Farrelly brothers film of the same name.
LOL funnyReport
Yes, I’m caught up now.Report
We’re only up to episode 10 in New Zealand, so I’ll have to dodge the post for a few weeks.Report
I’ve only seen the first two episodes of Daredevil so far and haven’t formed much of an opinion about it, except that the epic fight scene in the hallway in episode two was genuinely stunning. (I read that it was filmed in one take — damn, that was breathtaking.) I do like that this proto-Daredevil the show is developing for us gets hurt in ways that even Christopher Nolan’s & Christian Bale’s Batman didn’t quite manage, and that both Charlie Cox (in the title role) and whatever stuntman/men might be engaged in the fights are adept at expressing that. (OTOH, the realism is somewhat undercut by the fact that Daredevil goes back into action so quickly after supposedly being beaten half-to-death.)
In general, I’m getting bored with the rut that some comic-book inspired media seems to be caught in. This show seems to be setting itself up for yet another tired depiction of NYC — specifically, Manhattan and even more specifically, Hell’s Kitchen (aka Clinton) — as a crime-ridden cesspool in which walking down the street is fraught with peril. This might have resonated if the show were set in 1975, but it’s 2015. I’d be much more into this show right off the bat if Daredevil was a vengeful crusader for the displaced gentrified, beating the crap out of landlords, bailed-out hedge fund managers and faux-artisanal fixie-riding hipsters. Fight the real power, Matt, not these outmoded depictions of what crime in the city is supposed to be.
Oh well, both Outlander and Orphan Black are keeping me happy.Report
I saw the hallway fight compared to Oldboy. Which has me interested for sure.Report
@michael-m There is a subplot not too much further in that does bring up the displaced gentrified in a pretty significant way.Report
Yes, and it’s a good subplot. (I was thinking when I watched it that it would annoy a lot of people on this site.)Report
Watching Daredevil and 3rd Rock from the sun and HIMYM and I *just* started (as in I’ve only watched half an episode because I was supposed to be doing something else) Orphan Black, which I think I will end up binging on soon.
Reading a passel of kids’ books of which Jeffers’ The Incredible Book-Eating Boy was definitely the cream of the crop (SO AWESOME) and will be getting sent to various children on their birthdays. Tolkien’s Mr. Bliss was also charming, though I think it makes a better gift for people who already love Tolkien than for random children who don’t know who he is yet. Also I am in the middle of Paterniti’s non-fiction that is kinda-sorta about cheese, but also about a village in Spain, The Telling Room. Just finished Elizabeth Knox’s Daylight (probably the oddest and most litfic vampire novel of the many I’ve read).
Listening to old episodes of the Irish and Celtic Music Podcast (or half-listening to them, at least) which is my very favorite of its ilk. All caught up on my two tor.com podcasts for now (*stares at iTunes and wills it to have new ones to download*).Report
Oh, I’m also watching Outlander. As in, Right This Moment, I have 2 episodes queued up. (I was too sick to come over to my friend’s and watch it last week.)Report
Was out of town most of the week, so only books for me, but we had John McPhee’s A Roomful of Hovings (McPhee is hands down the best writer in English, non-fiction only. Seriously, no one else could make books about Oranges, The Pine Barrens, the Swiss army and plate tectonics white knuckle reads.)
Also working on The Sea Years of Joseph Conrad, detailing the parts of his life and voyages that populated his novels. Turns out he actually fought a duel in Marseilles.Report
Oh, I need to read the Conrad bookReport
It’s older @chris , mid ’60’s, but well worth it.Report
@aaron-david YAY JOHN MCPHEE YAY YAY! I’ve only read about a half-dozen of his books because I never ever want to run out. So I make myself wait.Report
@maribou
I have read most of his work, but find that he is equally enjoyable to re-read.
Seriously, everyone should read his works.Report
I agree with your assessment of the show’s morality – I hated its extensive use of torture and especially its portrayal of torture as an effective way of getting information.
I thought Karen has a fairly strong arc, in that she pursued her own investigation and had her own motivations for doing so, and wasn’t just an adjunct to Murdock. I would have liked them to do more with Claire, who was basically just there to patch up Matt.
Fisk was the best-drawn villain that the Marvel Cinematic University (now with added TV!) has written yet, though; they did a great job of making him multidimensional and interesting.Report
The torture was my biggest turn-off as well, especially being endorsed and aided by the nurse. Do nurses swear to “do no harm,” or is that just doctors?
I have only seen the first two episodes, so if the character develops to realize that torture is wrong, I might be okay with it. If he is a hero, and he continues to torture, that makes torture seem heroic, and I am not okay with that.Report
We’re five or six episodes in and that hasn’t happened yet.
But I, for my part, have stopped watching for Daredevil and have started watching for Kingpin.
(Mild spoiler: you will find yourself saying “oh, I hope this date goes well…”)Report
Well, the nurse did try to have that conversation… I think DD will need a “come to Jesus” moment.
Fisk is, right now, the more interesting character. As his the object of his affections, who seems OK with who he is.
I like how they seem to be spending a lot of effort to develop the supporting characters first.Report
I was just gearing up to write a much longer review of the show. I guess I should watch things faster.Report
Please still write it. I promise to argue with you about it.Report
I’m enjoying DD, possibly because I was never much of a fan of the comic, but found the character interesting; possibly because the Ben Affleck movie was just so awful that bar for a good depiction of the character was just set that low.
And @maribou, I don’t think the city you think the show is set in is the one it’s actually set in. There is a scene where Foggy & Karen are walking, quite safely, down the streets of Hell’s Kitchen all night long. I think what we are seeing is the seedy underbelly that DD is actively prowling through, and underbelly that does not want to be seen by the public specifically because if it came to light, the masses would mass and take it out. This is why Wilson Fisk is taking great pains to be anonymous, even though he clearly owns cops.Report
@oscar-gordon Say what? @michael-m is the one who had the problem with how the city is depicted… I was just telling him said depiction was more complex than he might think.Report
@maribou
ACK! Sorry! You are right, that was meant for someone else.Report