Run The Runoffs
In a little over a month, there will be a special runoff election in Georgia between Democrat Jon Ossoff and Republican Karen Handel. Despite getting within a couple points of winning outright, there is a pretty decent chance that Handel, who didn’t even clear 20% in the general, will overtake him. If this happens, there is a good chance we’re going to hear some commentary that runoffs are bad and, indeed, racist. I sincerely hope Democrats resist this temptation.
The argument for “runoffs are racist” is pretty straightforward. The only place they really exist is in the South, and when the South has a peculiar institution, it’s rarely good. Sure enough, one of the early reasons for having a runoff was to prevent African-Americans from electing people. Boom. That settles it, right? Southern institution? Check. History with racism? Check. They should get with the times and do what the rest of the country does, right? Ossoff should have been the legitimate winner!
Not exactly. And even if Georgia didn’t have runoffs, there’s no guarantee that Ossoff would have won last month anyway.
There is an argument in favor of doing away with runoffs, and that argument is that political party officials should have more rather than less power. When special elections occur in jurisdictions without runoffs, the political parties usually get together and select candidates and so you usually have a two-person race. We saw this just recently in Kansas. The #BanPrimaries part of me loves the notion, but the systems guy just can’t get on board with it. In this case, the party establishment would likely have chosen Handel anyway, giving us the exact race we’re looking forward to on June 20. If Handel wins that one, there’s a solid chance she would have won the first one.
The counterargument to this is that runoffs tend to have lower turnout, and lower turnout tends to favor Republicans. This is indeed an argument against runoffs and in favor, perhaps of ordered balloting, or Instant Runoff Voting (IRV). In that case, everybody who voted in the first round would have had an easy time voting between the two primary candidates because it all would have been on one ballot. If we assume that everybody who voted for a Republican would have voted for Handel and everybody who voted for a Democrat would have voted for Ossoff, then Handel would have won. That’s not necessarily a safe assumption, however. In fact, I would probably give the edge to Ossoff due to ordering fatigue as Republicans get tired of numbering all the way to 11 for each of the 11 candidates. Some would have simply done three or four and never would have gotten to Handel. While almost all the Democrats were with Ossoff already. On the other hand, knowing this, the Republicans may have found a way to prevent there from being 11 candidates to begin with.
While I am generally fond of IRV, in cases like this I do favor traditional runoffs. Instant Runoffs are best for elections where you have 3-5 candidates, and the more candidates you have the worse IRV does because people lose track of all of the candidates and the major candidates may not get the scrutiny they should. This would also have been an issue in the Republican primaries, where I did favor IRV but only due to the state-by-state nature of the system which makes traditional runoffs harder to digest. If we ever were to have a national primary, I’d prefer two-round voting of some sort.
The proper way to look at this is through democratic process rather than who it benefits. From a democratic-process standpoint, the desire of the south to avoid allowing a minority segment of the population from choosing the winner is reasonable. The same runoff system that prevented them from doing so prevented the KKK from choosing in Arkansas. Runoffs would also prevent the National Front from taking power in France without a much broader support base than they presently have. It would likely have prevented LePage from taking office in Maine. It might have prevented Rick Perry’s 2006 re-election. It could have prevented Todd Akin from being the Republican nominee for the Senate. Some of these outcomes you may approve of, some you may not, but when you change a process you don’t get to pick and choose when it applies, usually.
There are things you can do to tweak the results one way or another. California and Louisiana both have blanket primaries, of sorts. California holds theirs during primary season which allows the runoff to coincide with the general election calendar. Louisiana holds their blanket primary on election day, leaving the runoff a greater risk (and, to some, perhaps, a benefit) of being a low-turnout affair. And obviously some states make voting easier than others. How these issues with runoffs are Handeld, however, is a different question than whether or not runoffs should occur. And they are separate questions from the special election runoffs in particular.
The strongest argument against runoffs is the turnout issue, which both IRV and plurality victor systems avoid. Related to that is that it contributes to ballot fatigue. This is an issue for almost all special elections, though certainly moreso for two-state elections than one. And though it’s worth paying money for democracy, they usually do tend to cost money. To the extent that we are concerned about these things, however, I would propose a different solution: Abolish special elections. Let state parties choose placeholder congresspersons until the next regularly scheduled election.
I’m going to take umbridge with the excerpt for this post:
“It’s not often, but sometimes the South is right and the rest of the country is wrong.”
We’re right about a whole bunch of things… And regarding a lot of the things that they say we’re wrong about, it seems like the rest of the country has the same problems, they are just better at hiding it. Report
That’s fair. I was mostly thinking of it in terms if the South has its institutions set up one way and the rest of the country another way, the latter is probably better. That there was a racial history behind this, for example, is the opposite of surprising. The South was a really bad place when a lot of these decisions were made.Report
True – but systemic racism comes in various forms. Chicago, Boston, etc. A lot of non-Southern locations have used public policy to keep populations segregated.Report
Hell, just look at Baltimore.Report
Mike is correct, but Baltimore is a lot more southern then northern.Report
Excuses excuses and it’s run by Dems.Report
Ummm no. I said Mike is correct on the general point. Just saying Baltimore is southern. But feel free to argue everything and find confrontation everywhere.Report
Then why is Baltimore in the AFC North?Report
For the same reason Indianapolis is in the AFC South.
(Remember when Atlanta was in the West of like, every sports league?)Report
I believe Pittsburgh was in the NL West for a long time.Report
No, but Cincinnati was.Report
And how many teams do the Pac 10 and Big 10 have? Is it any wonder the world is on fire if we can’t trust sports league conference designations. The center cannot hold. Things fall apart.Report
The PAC-x updates their number to match the actual number of teams — it was the PAC-8 when I was growing up and it’s the PAC-12 now. Obviously the two Big x conferences couldn’t do that so easily without some branding and coordination issues, so their number designations are now arbitrary and fixed.Report
The Big 12 actually had(/has?) the domains, trademarks, and everything for Big 14 and Big 16. Which creates an awkward thing where the Big Ten has a Big 12 number and vice-versa.Report
The NFC West used to be Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina, St. Louis, and one team that was actually in the west.Report
The easy answer is that the NFL is bass ackward in many ways. The fact that it is in the North practically proves my point that is the South.
The longer answer is that Baltimore used to be Cleavland which was in the same conference as the other North teams. Now of course Cleavland is Cleavland so all is right with the world.Report
My alternate NFL Divisions:
NFL Northern Lakes: Buffalo, Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota
NFL Midwest: Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis
NFL Northeast: New England, Giants, Jets, Philadelphia
NFL Mid-Atlantic: Baltimore, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Washington
NFL California: Chargers, Rams, Oakland, San Francisco
NFL Southeast: Atlanta, Jacksonville, Miami, Tennessee
NFL Gulf Coast: Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa Bay
NFL Oh Just Fuck It: Arizona, Denver, Kansas City, Seattle
Now, if we went to 4 division of 8 teams, you could do:
NFL Big West: Seattle, San Fran, Oakland, LA, LA, Denver, Arizona, KC
NFL Deep South: Houston, Dallas, Tennessee, New Orleans, Tampa, Miami, Jacksonville, Atlanta
NFL Rust Belt: Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Indy, Cinci, Cleveland
NFL East Coast: Buffalo, NE, Giants, Jets, Philly, Washington, Baltimore, CarolinaReport
Oakland??? Don’t you mean Las Vegas. So much for coherence.Report
I would love run offs for president.
Why with run offs we would likely not be dealing with this trump mess.
Having to clear 50% in each state or it is a head to head vs top 2 would prevent wasted third party votes etc.Report
Kentucky is the south? It’s borders Ohio and reaches north past NJ.Report
NJ?Report
The Census Bureau, looking at a variety of factors, puts Kentucky in the South. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, looking at assorted business linkages, puts Kentucky in the South.
My cluster analysis work using migration data places Kentucky in an “old Northwest Territory” region, driven largely by moves back and forth across the Ohio River at Cincinnati and Louisville. But I’m an outlier — for example, my software steadfastly refuses to create a unified Midwest that spans the Mississippi River.Report
I am still confused by Kazzy mentioning NJ. Maybe he meant WV?
Anyway, the Kentucky = South debate is an old one but generally-speaking most of the state identifies more as Southern. Louisville and Northern Kentucky are outliers and we are a bit more Midwestern (lots of German-Catholic roots).
One of the more popular terms lately to describe KY, MD, VA, and even WV is Upland South and I think it’s as good as any.Report
I think he’s referring to the fact that the northernmost point in Kentucky is very slightly farther north than the tip of Cape May at the south end of NJ. North-south relationships are often easy to get wrong because of our preconceptions. Salt Lake City, part of the Southwest, right? Farther north than New York City.Report
I always considered SLC “Mountain West” or just in the Rockies.Report
Facts are hard.Report
From watching The Last of the Mohicans I learned that to get to Kentucky from upstate New York, you go west.Report
You can learn a lot of things from Cooper, most of them dead wrong.Report
I’d be for some kind of IRV offer or do what the French do and have the run-off be election be a week or two after the initial election, not separated by months.
The more pressing electoral reforms I want to see are making election day a weekend instead of a Tuesday or have something that makes voting easier for the poor and/or people without much time. We do let states set their election processes a bit too much.Report
I meant to mention it in the OP, but two months is way too much lag time. I think the French election is too truncated, though. The sweetspot to me is 3-4 weeks.Report
How hard is voting now, you show up and vote? How much easier can we make it? Maybe a gov’t ride to the polling place and a gov’t minder to help you fill out your ballot?Report
Republicans will use any argument, no matter how transparent the bad faith, to support racist campaigns of voter suppression.Report
Do you have the tiniest bit of empathy for any argument or do you just dismiss anything and everything out of hand? If you are a lawyer, a particularly harsh prosecutor is the only thing that fits your profile.
Voting can be easy and it can be made hard. You can make people travel to a handful of locations and wait for hours or you can have multiple locations and have short wait times. Not everyone can get off work to wait for hours especially people in wage & hour jobs. Professional jobs provide more “I have to do X and will be running late/leaving early coverage.”
You can keep voting in strict hours of 9 AM to 5 PM or expand to give some time to people after work.Report
All of which maybe true but is not necessary relevant. Every jurisdiction has only so many locations, machines and money etc. with which to conduct an election. Hopefully they use their they use their resources to enable the most people to vote.Report
For me it’s a real PITA. I’m out on the road for 3-4 weeks at a time and only rarely home on that day. I’ve voted in person exactly once. And my state makes it a PITA to get absentee ballots as well thanks to Lt. Gov. Kris Kobach.Report
In Colorado, Oregon, and Washington, if you’re registered the ballot shows up in your mailbox about three weeks before election day. Arizona’s permanent mail ballot list yields about 75% of all votes cast, California’s about 65%. In the three that have implemented full vote-by-mail, “should we keep it?” polls about 75% yes, across the political spectrum of voters.
And you know something? It only increases turnout slightly. Off-year turnout is still miserable. What does increase turnout? A nice, juicy ballot initiative drives turnout way up anywhere in the West where such are common.Report
Depends on the place, doesn’t it? Some places aren’t super busy and you can vote on your way to or from work without much of a disruption in your day. Others have crazy wait times and you’ll end up taking a chunk of your day off of work. Still others allow voting by mail, which is pretty damned easy.
I’m an able-bodied professional with a lot of control over my schedule and I still vote by mail every single time. If every jurisdiction had that option, I’d have zero pity for bad voter turnout. But as it is, we’re not exactly making it easy in a lot of cases. The benefit an individual gets from voting is pretty infinitesimal, so making it even slightly harder is likely to have noticeable effects on turnout.Report
For election day, I favor a three-day approach. Election day is Tuesday, but also allow voting the Satuday and Sunday before.Report
I can get behind this.Report
Except that many jurisdictions allow for early voting already. You know, vote early, vote often and vote Dem.Report
Conservatives often make farcically dishonest accusations of voter fraud in order to support policies to suppress the vote in a racist fashion.Report
Voting on a Tuesday prevents fraud, whereas voting on a Sunday when God is busy watching all of the good people in church allows you to get away with all sorts of stuff on the sly.Report
And maybe if we change the day your taxes are due to the day before election day people might better rememmber what they are paying for and they should expect from govt.Report
You’re not going to get any pushback from me. I’d like to see people get monthly statements the same way they get them for utilities. Itemize the top 10 or 20 expenditures and how much of their cash went to each one. That would probably save a ton of confusion since people on both sides of the aisle believe absolutely ridiculous things about taxes and where their money goes.
But that still doesn’t say anything about whether making people take off work on a weekday and plod down to a random public building to vote makes any sense.Report
It makes perfect sense if the goal is not “let the voice of We The People be heard” or even “to the polls ye sons of Freedom” but, as PJ said a while back “count those people as 3/5 of a person but don’t let them do 3/5 of the voting”.Report
That deep Kansas probe that 45’s hot new fraud investigator spent millions on?
Found maybe a double handful of in-person fraud cases. And the majority of them voted R.
Expect it to be touted in the panel’s recommendation of Vote Suppression Best Practices. With the actual cite buried deep deep in a footnote, along with the other misrepresentations.Report
The House of Representatives is supposed to be the part of the federal government most directly accountable to the people. (In the initial design, it was the *only* part of the fed gov that was)
Putting appointees – by party machines no less – undermines the entire basic premise of the House of Reps.Report
The way districting works has already fatally undermined that premise, though.Report
Given enough antipathy towards the status quo, you can overcome a lot of gerrymandering – that’s how Tom Perriello won in central Virginia district that was in excess of R+5 iirc against literally a Goode ol boy.Report
You can overcome a lot of things, if you get my meaning.
It’s also not just a matter of gerrymandering, though that surely doesn’t help.
Doubling the number of Reps and having more multi-member districts seems like it would be a good step in the right direction. And I think it could be done entirely through legislation.Report
Goode couldn’t carry the people’s republic of Charlottesville and lost.Report
I think the republic will survive 97% rather than 100% of congresscritters being elected.
(If it helps, I would bar the placeholder for running for the seat.)Report
“From a democratic-process standpoint, the desire of the south to avoid allowing a minority segment of the population from choosing the winner is reasonable.”
Good argument against the electoral college, no?Report
Ha! I was actually deliberate in my wording there for precisely that reason (ie saying such a desire was “reasonable” than that it was “right”). I do think the president should be chosen by popular vote, though also see virtue in the anti-majoritarian senate. So I’ve a mixed record on that.Report
Without the impulse to count non-voting slaves for population that was blunted with the 3/5th’s compromise I don’t think the electoral college would have ended up happening.Report
Probably not. But I doubt an at-large popular vote would have been agreed to either, given the founders’ fondness for state sovereignty (though that itself could be almost totally rooted in the same racism as the compromise).
Possibly we would have gone parliamentarian, with the House (which of course was influenced by the slavery-based apportionment) electing the president (just as it does in the event that the Electoral College doesn’t supply a majority-winning candidate).Report