(Trump) Sign of the Times
So here’s what happened.
Last week, my 14-year-old daughter and her 15-year-old friend walked to a neighbor’s house, seven down from our own, to swim in their small backyard pool. On the way home, three houses away and across the street from our house, they encountered a Trump yard sign. Their conversation, according to their report and the video they naturally took, went like this:
Friend: Oh my god. A Trump sign. Have you ever seen one before?
Daughter: No. Never.
Friend: Me neither.
Daughter: What should we do?
Friend: I don’t know. Should we kick it over?
Daughter: Okay.
Daughter: [Kick.]
Neighbor: Hey! What are you doing to my Trump sign?
At which point they skedaddled on home as fast as their legs could carry them. This will not surprise anyone who knows teenagers. They seem tough, but they’re not.
I was in the living room when they arrived. Though ‘arrived’ is probably the wrong word. What they actually did was lurch into the house, slamming the door behind them, their legs collapsing under them as they did that hysterical half-laugh, half-cry thing, the story bursting from them as they thrust their phones forward so I could watch the video.
See! Oh my God. Mom, look, isn’t this crazy?
I did look, quickly — this all happened very quickly — at 7 seconds of video, and then looked at my husband with Parent Wide-Eyes, which indicate concern. He looked back at me with Parent Clench-Eyes, which indicate anger. He was pissed.
Let me just say, straightaway, that this was extremely out of character for our daughter, who hates getting in trouble.
My biggest fear in the world, she tells me later, when she is sobbing on the porch, because not only myself and my husband, but also her grandfather and her aunt, have expressed their surprise and dismay at what she’s done, is that you and dad will be disappointed in me.
While this is partly the hyperbole of a teenager, it’s pretty true of our daughter, who prides herself on being a good child, a good citizen. She’s grown up with us, after all, and we are fairly intense, morally speaking. We don’t let a whole lot slide. Politically, we’re liberals, but parenting-wise, I’d say we’re more middling-conservative.
Here’s some background.
We moved to Wilmington, North Carolina, from Portland, Oregon, just a month ago, for many reasons: Portland was getting too expensive. My husband’s stepmother died unexpectedly in February. My husband’s dad found himself suddenly alone in a house that was too big, both physically and emotionally, without her. We’d talked for years about bucking the nuclear family model in favor of an intergenerational one, and now seemed the perfect time for us to take that model for a test drive.
When making our decision, we knew it would be difficult to leave the comfort that comes from living around a majority of people whose views align with ours. Many “values” Portland prides itself on are ones we share—LGBT rights, ardent environmentalism, and Bernie Sanders-style bank-busting, for example. In Wilmington, we knew, we would be pretty far to the left of a lot of people. Friends in Portland worried about us coming to a place that seemed to them — and I know this sounds terrible — a touch regressive. I assured them that once here I would be a force for “good.” I imagined myself joining anti-bathroom-bill protests, maybe, or going door to door for the Democrats. I said, If everyone with Portland values lives in Portland, what good does that do?
Pretty smug, really.
Nothing is ever simple, and neither is any place. Certainly North Carolina isn’t. It is, after all, a purple state. It went to Obama in 2008. Romney took it in 2012, but it was close. The people here — like everywhere — run the gamut politically, socially, economically, racially, and personally. There are nuances within every region, every neighborhood. And we are the newcomers here. It’s not nice to come to a new place and start throwing your beliefs around. Seek to understand rather than to be understood, that’s what I want to do. At least in theory.
In our new neighborhood, I’m already in a walking group. Every single sweaty morning I meet up with three women to walk a three-mile loop. One is the daughter of Greek immigrants. She asks, on the morning after the newspapers announces the North Carolina Voter ID law has been struck down, Can someone tell me this–why can’t they just get an ID? It takes five minutes.
Another of the ladies, a self-professed “somewhat conservative liberal” who works as a nurse educator at a local trauma rehab center, says, Don’t let her fool you. She’s the most Democratic Republican you’ll ever meet. She goes on to tell me about the troubled high school kid the Greek woman took in for years. How he’d gotten off drugs thanks to her. How her daughter spoke up at the school-board meeting in favor of bussing kids from our neighborhood to the inner city school.
A third woman has one son in the Navy. He’s out at sea. Her other sons go to a charter school. Though I don’t yet have a handle on her politics, I do know that, according to the nurse, she’s the one who always follows up later with facts.
Apparently their discussions get pretty heated. This is an opinionated group, but there’s one opinion they share. In the nurse’s words: We run the gamut politically, but there’s one thing we all agree on: Donald Trump cannot become president.
Here’s some more background.
My daughter’s grandfather, whom we now live with in Wilmington, was the Democratic precinct captain for the 2008 and 2012 elections. The last thing he needs is for word to get out that his liberal hooligan granddaughter is running through the neighborhood trampling people’s property and undermining their right to free speech, especially people of the Republican sort. Two days after the incident — I don’t know what to call it, though The Kicking has kind of a nice ring to it — he is firmly in the camp that she should say sorry, not just to us, but to the neighbor.
I sit with him in his van, a southern storm raging outside us, following a tense trip to Lowe’s to buy grass seed. In addition to attempting to understand the dynamics of a brand new town, I am trying to figure out a whole new kind of garden. In Portland, all you have to do to grow something is throw it in the general direction of the ground. Here — well, I have no idea yet, but it looks like it’s a lot harder.
Her grandpa thought we, the parents, had handled the situation poorly. Felt we were too easy on our daughter, who, from his perspective, seemed to take what happened too lightly. To be fair, he didn’t know about the many apologies she gave to us, or about the hours she spent crying on the porch, embarrassed by what she’d done.
He says, When I was young, I lived with my grandfather. He was the only registered Democrat in his small Illinois Republican town. I can tell you right now, he would have made me march right back over there and take responsibility for what I’d done.
I sit and listen as rain falls outside the van, making rivers on the glass.
I say, Yes. I hear you. And if you think she should go apologize, she will, though I know in my gut that I don’t want to make her do that.
He says, If we kick over signs without apologizing, we are no better than those tacitly or vocally supporting Trump’s calls for violence. I nod in agreement.
Now, days have gone by — a week and a half — and I have not made her go.
During that time Donald Trump’s rhetoric has become more divisive, so much so that much of the party he represents have seen fit to denounce him.
Also during that time I have looked for, and overlooked, opportunities to talk to the Trump-sign man myself. One morning, after the walk, I see a young guy, mid-twenties, maybe, pull out of the driveway in a big black truck. There was no time to talk to him, then, and to be honest, I found him a little intimidating.
But there he was, a person whose life, and whose opinions, I could — and, I tell myself, probably should — seek to understand. I hold as a deep and abiding belief the principle that every single person, from the best behaved to the worst, deserves my compassion, respect, and, as far as I can muster it, my love. Even people whose ideas I find destructive. Why? Well, for lots of reasons. They, like me, did not invent the world. They’re just trying to live here. And it’s not an easy place to live. There are so many things to fear. Unfortunately, a fearful heart can too often become a hardened heart. A hardened heart doesn’t need to be bashed or ridiculed or told it’s ugly or scary or bad, it needs to be handled with compassion and clarity and care.
On the other hand, people with hardened hearts should not, I believe, be allowed to run the show. They lack the awareness, kindness, and courage needed not only to live in this difficult world, but to help re-invent it.
I do neighbor smile-nod at him as he drives by, but later in the day I don’t look to see if he’s come home. I don’t cross over to say hello. I stay on my side of the street.
Something my daughter said to me during her crying hours on the porch stays with me.
Why aren’t you doing anything to stop Trump? Why am I the only one in the whole family who has done anything about it?
I tell her we can find productive ways to work against Donald Trump. We can register people to vote. We can phone bank for a candidate we feel is less divisive.
These are not my ideas. These are not the province of an overly moralistic people. They are the very rules we have established as essential to a working American democracy. And right now, a vocal minority, led by a vocal destroyer, are refusing to play by those rules.
My daughter, too, has broken two of the rules. She has impeded someone’s right to property and his right to free speech. In a smallish way, but still. It is our job to keep our side of the street clean. I know this.
Why can’t I make her do it?
Believe me, I’m very clear that this would be a much easier piece to write if it ended with my self-righteous report that she apologized and learned her lesson and we did our part for American democracy and civil discourse. I’m the one who is not tying this story up with a neat bow. If it had been a Romney sign, or even a Cruz sign, people whose core beliefs and policies I am completely against, I would have walked her over there myself.
But it wasn’t. It was a Trump sign. And that is important here. Not for the moral rightness of it. It’s still wrong. But here’s the thing. Many children are on to Trump, and see him for exactly what he is: a bully. Have we not wronged the children of our nation by allowing someone like Donald Trump to get this close to the presidency? Do we not owe them a pretty serious explanation, gained by way of some pretty serious soul searching? How can we require civility from our children when we don’t demand it of our leaders? Do we, individually and collectively, know what our democracy is based on, and how to protect it? A Trump sign represents what Trump represents. Support for his hateful beliefs, hateful speech, and hateful calls for violence. That includes the comment made at a rally less than half an hour ago, less than half a mile from where I sit, on the campus of The University of North Carolina-Wilmington.
He first worked up the crowd by saying that Hillary Clinton will essentially gut the Second Amendment by choosing liberal judges for the Supreme Court. Then he delivers the thinly veiled call for violence.
If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people—maybe there is, I don’t know.
In America, in the America I believe in, a candidate may represent a difference of opinion, but not a difference as to whether you may or may not joke about your opponent being assassinated.
What if it our daughter had torn down a Nazi flag? Well, I guess that depends on when and where the sign was. 1930s Germany? I would argue that her moral duty would be to tear it down, to protest evil. Here, in 2016? I would argue that her moral duty would be to protect the person’s right to free speech, but also to exercise her right to free speech by standing across the street and mounting a protest.
What I really want is something I can’t have — an America that acts according to its stated principles.
In my Rockwell-ian fantasy, the neighbor is a conservative, kindly man. My daughter kicks over his sign. We explain to her all the reasons it is wrong to do so. She goes to him and apologizes. He chides her. But because he’s wise, he takes the opportunity to provide a lesson in American civics. To explain that here in America differences in political opinion are decided through the democratic process. That everyone’s voice is heard. That violence is not the order of the day, or the price for dissent. That we can strongly disagree with one another but still be neighborly. But given how protesters are treated at his rallies — booed and threatened and punched and ejected — I don’t trust that any such interaction will be instructive or constructive. Deep down, I think he may have forfeited his right to an apology by supporting someone who comports himself so anti-Democratically.
Just to be clear, this is not about the issues. If I sat down and talked to a Trump supporter — and I probably will, as my son plays football and many of his teammates parents’ are surely not voting for Clinton. Come to think of it, the couple at whose house my daughter was swimming are life-long Republicans, too. The husband is a retired police officer. They may well be voting for Trump, and I feel obligated to say that I like them very much. Anyway, If I sat down with a Trump supporter we would probably agree on several points. I too think ISIS is scary. I’m afraid of terrorists. I don’t take that threat lightly. Nor do I take lightly the decimation of the middle class and the white lower class. Though in my view they are victims of the Republican policies they support, I can definitely relate to their anger, and feel their sense of powerlessness and pain. I firmly believe that we should be outraged by the recent politically motivated killing of police officers, though I am just as convinced that police officers must work to change the culture that leads to the disproportionate killing of people of color.
This is about trying to find our way, collectively, to some kind of America we can all live in together.
Who has claim to the moral high ground? Is it possible that our daughter can claim some, for her activist spirit and willingness to stand up for what she believes in? Surely her grandfather can, for his certainty that the most important thing to do is to respect your neighbor. The Trump supporter, with the sign he has no idea has sent us into such turmoil, can too. I’m pretty clear that I do not. I’m okay with that for now. It’s good to sit humbly in the knowledge that I can just as easily sow the seeds of bad behavior as others can.
As I sit in my indecision, trying to finish this story, Leigh, one of my most gracious friends, calls. She was born and raised in Virginia and now lives in Portland. I explain my dilemma to her. I tell her that my conflict lies in which set of values trumps the other, no pun intended. The set that tells me to stand up against bullying, meanness, and lies, or the set that tells me to trust in and follow my beloved principles of democracy, and the principles of loving my neighbor.
Leigh says it’s a delicate balance. She’s right. Not only within myself, but within our nation. If we can’t find this balance, or at the very least seek it, we may fall into an abyss from which we can’t return.
Me: Yes, but should I make her go apologize?
Leigh: How about this: Go full-on Southern style. Have her bake some blueberry muffins, then walk over and leave them on his porch. Make a card that has some apologetic humor in it. I think you could all feel good about that.
I like this idea. I have not yet committed to it, but I like it. I hope the coming weeks find me learning — and teaching — lessons like this. Lessons in tolerance. I hope they find me living a combination of all my highest principles, my light raised high as Lady Liberty’s.
I hope that for our country, too.
[Image credit: Wiki commons.]
Oh dear god Maud. How many words do you need to write to say “my kid trespassed and knocked over a political sign and I can’t make my kid do what’s right (which is to go over and apologize and set the sign back into it’s place) because I disagree with the politics of that politician”? “Oh, and I’m pretty sure only “scary” people support Trump too”. How many excuses do you need to create NOT to do the right thing? How many days of hand wringing? I was waiting for “and he might be carrying a gun!”.
Way to set the example for your kids that because you object to a political viewpoint, you’re justified in criminal behavior, election shenanigans, and treating your neighbors like crap. That will surely endear you to the community. Welcome to the neighborhood.Report
No, she is perfect fit for the liberal echo chamber here.Report
She’s a teenage girl who did an impulsive thing that she felt terrible about, and terribly embarrassed by. I’m her concerned mom who is trying to pass on democratic principles that seem to be largely missing from the discourse lately. I am scared of the increasingly frothy frenzy into which Trump supporters are being whipped at his rallies. If I told you this story in person would you yell at me? Or would you say, Yeah, it’s hard to be a parent. Don’t we all really want the same things for our kids? The Internet, like Solyent Green, is people. I am a person over here. Please be nice.Report
Yeah, it’s hard being a parent. That doesn’t absolve you of your duty to be a good example to your kid. Apologies involve a minimal amount of restitution to the wronged party. They also involve facing up to someone, and allowing them the space to say “I don’t accept your apology.” [if they refuse your apology three times, you may consider the matter dealt with, even if they’re still upset.]
They’re your neighbor. You may need these people and their goodwill (you have to sleep sometime, after all). “Don’t piss off your neighbors” is one of those rules that kids should learn. You can be all introvert, never talk to anyone, be inoffensive and bland — but don’t piss off your neighbors. [My neighbor who did, rapidly found he had intercontinental legal issues. Perhaps there are some people it is wise not to piss off?]Report
Maud,
Don’t you see that YOU are part of the problem. You know what your kid did was wrong. Your kid knows too. And neither of you is willing to do the correct thing. Everything else is filler and irrelevant. I was a teenager once and I did crap. I was a jerk. And often times, I had to go fix it or face worse punishment.
“I am scared of the increasingly frothy frenzy into which Trump supporters are being whipped at his rallies.” Your actions directly contribute to it. You want to help stop it, go meet your neighbor and realize his humanity. He’s not some evil troll.
“If I told you this story in person would you yell at me?” Yell? No. I’d raise my voice though, which would be in the same tone as my writing. It’s a mix of exasperation and frustration that you seem to spend more time coming up with excuses to not do the right thing that just getting it over with. Your daughter is watching you lead by example (or in this case not lead). What kind of message are you sending her?Report
When I was a teenager, I was a jerk. My parents said I was right to be a jerk (and so did the psychologist). I rarely needed to go fix things (and generally only when I had family in tears). I don’t claim this is the way parents ought to do things.
So what if he is an evil troll? Trolls are human too, and if you do the right thing, you get to sneer at them if they’re unwarrantedly belligerent.
She’s saying that it’s worse to be a bully than it is to be a sneak, a thief, or a liar. Or a murderer, for that fucking matter. Trump’s a two bit hack, who doesn’t know what the hell he’d do if elected. I could tell you what Palin’s crowd would have done if she was a heartbeat away from the Presidency.Report
Yes! Absolutely. I definitely see that I’m part of the problem. I’m a writer, and handwringing through writing is the way I sort things out. Many apologies for wasting your time.Report
Nu, it’s the internet. if he didn’t want to kvetch at you for being silly, he wouldn’t have made it through the piece.Report
OK, this is absolute bullshit. People are so desperate to blame Trump on anyone but Trump supporters that they figure that simple things like causality aren’t relevant to assigning blame any more.
Knocking down signs is wrong. The kid should apologize and take responsibility for her actions instead of trying to blame someone else for them.
Trump supporters, especially ones who are actual full-grown adults, are responsible for their actions, too.Report
Preach it brother.Report
I believe it was wrong to take down the sign like that and that the daughter should apologize, not because it makes her precinct-captain grandfather look bad, but because it was wrong to do. However, I’m agnostic on whether Maud should compel her daughter to apologize. Perhaps at a certain age people have to decide for themselves what the right thing to do is, and maybe her daughter is at that point.. And if there really is a fear about how the neighbor will react, then that has to enter the picture.
I’d prefer not to get categorical. I won’t say it’s never appropriate to take down someone’s sign. But I say it’s presumptively wrong. There have to be very good reasons to do something like that, and among those reasons are the moral odiousness of what the sign conveys and what taking down the sign will accomplish.
As for moral odiousness: I find Trump odious but not Nazi-level odious. To be clear, I don’t believe Maud is saying he’s like a Nazi. She’s not quite violating Godwin’s law (but the proof will be in the thread). Rather, she seems to be saying the issue isn’t as clear as it would have been in the 1930s Germany. At the same time, she suggests the duty toward a Nazi in 2016 is to recognize his or her freedom of speech. If the duty in 2016 is to recognize even a Nazi’s freedom of speech, it seems hard to say one shouldn’t recognize the freedom of speech of a Trump supporter.
As for what taking down the sign would accomplish: It would probably reinforce the perceived need to support someone like Trump. It would be an example of an attack on “our” freedoms and an attack on “law and order.”
To me, taking down the sign is bullying. Even if it isn’t, it will be perceived as such, and among those who would so perceive it are people who might be swayed to withhold support for Trump or who might be swayed not to go out of their way to support him.
Still, I appreciate Maud’s honesty. As she says, it would have been easier to end on a different note. I also realize that her post isn’t really about whether it was right to take down the sign and it’s not really asking my opinion about whether her daughter should apologize. It’s about negotiating the mores in a new environment and learning to live with others. She strikes me as someone who is really trying.
ETA: This comment is a drive-by. It’ll be a while before I read any responses, but promise to read them.Report
Thanks for your careful read. My goal is really to delve into the confused and ugly places within myself instead of pointing fingers at others. I’m definitely trying, though not always succeeding. I do think it would be useful for others to take that same hard look at what they are saying and doing, and ask if it’s going to help or hurt a deeply divided country.Report
The divisions are intentionally fostered, and to the extent that I can stand against those who would divide us, I shall. But, as with many things, the people in power are, well, powerful, and asymmetric warfare is the name of the day.Report
What a shitty thing to do. Shittier still to not make the kid apologize in person (what, he’s going to beat her up or something? A neighborgirl? If you’re worried he’s violent, show up and stare — be visible that you’re making your kid do this). Yes, with the damn muffins, because that’s how you say you’re sorry. (Also an offer to mow the guy’s lawn — that’s a “work apology” and it means a bit more than just “we made muffins, because making muffins is fun”).
“My daughter cried a lot, and so she doesn’t need to walk right up and say ‘i was wrong’ ”
“Trump is really awful, so I don’t need to have my daughter do the right thing”
(Because Hillary the liar isn’t awful? Because somehow your neighbor is wrong if he’s scared of having someone nicknamed “The Mad Bomber” as president? Because there are some rules you’re allowed to break, and others you ain’t?)
I love how out of Oregon you can get away with saying that every place runs the gamut, in ideology and stuff. Yeah, you say that, despite your kid never having seen a Trump sign. Betcha she’s never been on a bus where people talk openly about whose house got burned down with malicious intent either. Because “stuff runs the gamut” means something a bit different out in rural America — where each place is different, and most places are sick to death.
Trump is doing the honest thing and running for president. He’s not Palin — he is not being antidemocratic.
If Clinton gets us into World War Three, which is 20% odds or so, I’m so going to blame you.
If you want to explain to your daughter why she needs her neighbors, may I suggest using Argentina as a decent example of how when things go pear-shaped, having friends nearby is a lifesaver.Report
I’m trying to be open and honest and vulnerable in this piece, and to bring a little humanity to this whole discussion. I’m certainly not perfect. No one is. Fear motivates me as much as it does anyone.
Did you really just blame me for World War 3?Report
I can’t blame you until/unless it happens, now can I?
But if you elect a mentally unstable person during a time of international crisis, yes, I damn well can blame you for Hillary getting us into wars that we might have been able to talk our way out of.
Reagan played brinksmanship, and won. He did stupid idiotic things when there were saner ways to crash the Russian Economy (and I hear this from a behavioral economist who’s worked with Krugman). If he had started WWIII (a real possibility), I would have been quite willing to blame those who elected him.Report
Well, I don’t exactly trust either of these candidates to keep us out of World War III. given the assymetry of the power dynamic between voters and elected officials, I promise not to blame you if you vote for Trump and he is unable to keep us out of World War III.Report
I don’t think you have much concept of the assymetry of the power dynamic between voters and elected officials.
Or maybe it’s just that I hold myself to a higher standard.
I count myself as part of the crew that helped keep Bush from making war on Iran, after all (and that was a huge endeavor, lead by the military behind the scenes saying “oh, no way in HELL are we doing that”). I believe that the military has a decent shot at stopping Trump (who will be without much of the institutional power that Hillary would command. Also, Hillary’s allied with the neocons now, so… she’s got a financial incentive to make war).Report
Oi.
Maud, meet Kimmi, or possibly Kimmi’s posting script or Kimmi’s cat walking on Kimmi’s keyboard; the jury is still out on the specifics.
She occasionally says clever and insightful stuff; occasionally says risible stuff and often just says random stuff. Try not to give too much weight to it.
And yes she has a thing about HRC and yes she blames us for WWIII (once it happens).Report
You, however, I don’t blame for Israel threatening peaceful protestors with assassination.
For whatever that’s worth.Report
It means a lot. Thank you.Report
North,
It probably helps that I know someone who works for Hillary.Report
Or at least their cat.Report
The Devil’s Cat — an all new netflix series!
(actually, this is a decent idea. Going to suggest it to someone who submits story ideas to Netflix.)Report
Maud, I believe that an emergent solution is presenting itself.
“Kiddo, as part of your punishment, you are going to be reading the comment section of this post. You will be reading the Kimmi portions aloud to us.”Report
I am not a lawyer but I think this is tiptoeing up to the verge of 8th amendment issues.Report
Here’s how this would go down at my house/parents house:
1) I’d be told to go over there, apologize and fix the sign. I might get punished or I might not.
2) If I didn’t do it THAT day, I’d be escorted over to fix the sign and apologize. Then I’d get punished because I didn’t do it on my own like I was told and a parent had to get involved.
Of course where / when I grew up it was virtually inconceivable that you would trespass anyway.Report
Sounds like you had good parents.Report
I agree. My parents were the same, despite being democrats and never voting republican. One summer, I don’t remember if I was still in HS or college, I was jogging through our neighborhood. One of our neighbors was out getting a delivery and their small rat dog was with them. Their dog ran into the street and started growling and nipping at me and I responded by kicking at the dog. I don’t remember if I kicked it but the neighbors objected and I told them what I thought of their rat dog and letting it nip at me. I ended up having to go back alone and apologize to the neighbors. My parents punished me as well. Even today I think I was justified but it was probably a good lesson for me.Report
At least you didn’t straightfinger it in the throat. Or bark at it until it ran home.
(my response here comes from knowing several people who have been attacked by dogs, and have gotten severe heart palpitations, along with holes in their skulls — well, that last was a cat).Report
If they were not pigeons on the grass alas what were they. He had heard of a third and he asked about it it was a magpie in the sky. If a magpie in the sky on the sky can not cry if the pigeon on the grass alas can alas and to pass the pigeon on the grass alas and the magpie in the sky on the sky and to try and to try alas on the grass alas the pigeon on the grass the pigeon on the grass and alas. They might be very well they might be very well very well they might be.Report
Much as I like dogs (even little rat dogs), if you leave one that chases people and bites off the leash, you have no standing to complain if someone defends themselves against it.Report
If you leave a dog that physically confronts other people off the leash and out of control, you don’t get to complain if someone hurts the dog. Yes, this includes maniacally barking if it’s done at head level to adult humans. Lunging at people warrants a stick to the skull — even if all the dog wants to do is “give kisses” (provided, of course, this is done not on your property. Your dog can be a maniac all he wants, provided he stays on your land — not the street in front)Report
My parents were upset at my expletive filled response to the neighbors when they yelled at me to stop kicking at the dog. Kicking at the dog was okay, though it was probably more trouble than it was worth.Report
A fine piece, very thoughtful and vulnerable. I feel for you, especially with the moving and being in a new neighborhood. I applaud your temperance with your daughter as I’d be quite unhappy with this kind of thing being one of the first impressions one of your neighbors has of your family if it happened to me.
That said I do have to agree with the others that you will need to tackle this directly. While kicking over a sign is small potatoes it is still destruction of property, trespass and silencing of speech through violence. It is, fundamentally, the kind of things the Trumpkins accuse their opponents of doing all the time and it’s the excuse they use to do the things they do that we all find so deplorable. This isn’t the kind of fire we can or should be fighting with fire. It should not be forgotten that when Trump loses (and all indications are he’s going to lose, possibly spectacularly) that we’ll need to reintegrate his disappointed and enraged supporters potentially while Trump himself is caviling and claiming he was robbed. Alas it’s necessary to take that horrible higher road. Personally I’d suggest than you might have to bite the bullet, purchase a new Trump sign and offer to put it up in place of or in addition to the damaged one.Report
Totally agree. Thanks Noah. Luckily the signs was not only not damaged, it wasn’t even kicked over–just kicked. No damage was sustained. But I do think a direct apology is ideal, in the end, because it is going to be up to each and every one of us, on an individual level, to return this democracy to a more civilized place.Report
You’re welcome, thank you for contributing your voice to our community.Report
We’re still doing better than Saudi Arabia, who starts wars in order to determine who gets to be next in line for the throne. (And then, if that wasn’t bad enough, doesn’t care enough afterwards to stop the fighting).Report
Do you mean temperance or excusing her behavior? Because that is what it is. If it were my sign, I’d be upset but I would be impressed that the new neighbors had the class to apologize for their actions.Report
I meant if I were a parent and my offspring had just given my new neighbors this first impression of my family I would probably use language and be quite emphatically unhappy (thankfully I am not a parent). So I applaud her temperance with her kid.Report
I see and understand the thought process. Sometimes there are people in your neighborhood that you don’t want there. They aren’t your kind. Destroying their property is a good way to let them know that maybe they should move.
We just have to hammer out what our kind is and is not.Report
Hardly. As I’ve said, we are potentially the ones who are “the wrong kind. I find that an interesting place to be. Outside our comfort zone, feeling our way. But I will say there is a certain, shall we say, inhospitability, to outsiders implicit in the Trump campaign. I am a white college educated woman (poor Trump, so tormented by us and our wicked ways), but what if I were a Muslin or Mexican immigrant –would I feel entirely welcome in a new neighborhood that featured a Trump sign several houses down from my own, given the rhetoric?Report
To be honest, it wouldn’t surprise me for a second to know that housing values went down a tick or two when the Trump sign was put up unironically.
If that’s the case, the guy is engaging in harm against the entire neighborhood. He’s harming *YOUR* property.Report
How well do you know most Trump supporters in your neighborhood?
Around here, the Trump supporters will patronize a Mexican restaurant, even if the folks don’t speak english. Their comment (as reported in our local paper) would be, “They’ll learn. We did, after all.”
Trump supporters (and republicans in general) are very good at understanding that “oh, you’re the RIGHT kind of person” … when they meet you IN PERSON.Report
Leaving aside the parenting and effectiveness aspects, it’s hard to know when exactly we justifiably reach the line where democratic tolerance is no longer appropriate, but the thing to bear in mind is that it’s human nature to exaggerate the threat currently being posed by the “other side”. Back in 1980, I and my liberal family and friends thought that a Reagan presidency would surely bring nuclear war — shouldn’t that have been enough to justify treating his supporters as if they were directly threatening us and our way of life? Well, in retrospect, obviously not.Report
Good point.Report
In retrospect, not so obviously not. We did come pretty damn close to a nuclear war (and for no earthly reason). (Granted, India and Pakistan had a “in five years” probable nuclear war before we started throwing money at their ENIACS… Five minute response time, and all that).Report
I would have probably asked my child what ‘live and let live’ is supposed to be between himself/herself and the owner of the sign. After I dismiss the pointing at various social constructs that would have given him/her authority/excuses there only remains the individual constructs of how to decide.
I know my offspring well enough to know what happens next.Report
Yes, I think that’s a great way to go about it.Report
When I was a child, 6-7, there was a house close to the grade school. This house had an open back yard with probably half a dozen orange trees. One day, my best friend and I took an orange each, snuck away and ate them. Later we told my mother.
My mother is Berkeley born and bred, liberal to the bone. She marched us up to that house, made us ring the bell (knocking would be impolite) and apologize. That was the liberalism that I grew up with, taking responsibility. Making connections with unknown neighbors, being part of the community.
How you punish your child is up to you and your husband. But in a few years she will be a college student, with all the privilege that entails. You have removed the idea of consequences from here at this point. Any punishment now would be seen as, indeed be, punitive. At this point, it is on you. Do you want to be part of the community?
Or do you want to be part of the problem?Report
This whole thing is pretty far outside of my wheelhouse. “I’m sorry that your stuff got peed on” is one of those sentences that sounds worse at first but then you realize that it entails not only someone coming over to your house but coming over to your house with stuff that then gets left in another room long enough for a cat to come out and pee on it and the set of people who would conceivably do that sort of thing, at least in our case, is well within the whole “forgive people for their cats peeing on my stuff” group of folks.
I’m also pretty sure that my stories about what would have happened to me if I had done that at such an age would be less than perfectly enlightening. (There might have been a whupping.)
My immediate thought is to bring up various things, in history, that would have been worth knocking over. Various people who would have been involved in doing the knocking. Don’t just compare to the Nazis, though. Also compare to the satanic day care trials.
To some extent, the fact that she was willing to knock over the sign demonstrates how much *NOT* like the Nazis we’re talking about here. That’s probably a point that won’t be fully appreciated until Trump blows away like so much smoke in December.
Good luck. Being a parent is hard.Report
I’d follow the advice from your friend from Virginia. My suspicion is that you’ve blown the potential reaction from the neighbor up into something in your mind that is much worse than its likely to be. Even if he is rude or doesn’t accept the apology he will hopefully at least have a grudging respect for the mom who required her daughter to do the right thing. That might be important one day down the road.Report
I’d modify the advice from the friend. “Yes” to the blueberry muffins and self-deprecating card. But “no” to leaving them on the doorstep. Deliver them in person, at a time you know the neighbor to be at home.
Apologizing in person, looking the man in the eye, saying “Whatever differences of opinions about politics we have, I still should have respected your property, and this is my way of apologizing for that,” will go a long way towards establishing a good neighborly relationship. I know it’s a confrontation but steeling your way through confrontations is part of life.
And I’d keep the discussion apolitical to the extent it’s possible. You’re not going to convince him to abandon his support for Trump, any more than he’s going to convince you that you ought to support Trump. You’re not there to talk politics. You’re there to make up for a petty but symbolically important transgression, you’re there to ask forgiveness and lay the foundation for a good neighborly relationship. Leave the political differences of opinion out of it as much as you can.Report
On a related note.
Woman Charged With Vandalizing Trump Sign, Nearly Running Over Resident
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/06/donald-trump-sign-vandalism-andover-susan-bryant/Report
I have no more stomach for Trump that you do. Still, if it had been one of my kids, they would have been made to go over and apologize. Not only was vandalizing the sign wrong, but treating it more lightly because it was Trump rather than a candidate that we consider to be acceptable is against the principles that we, as liberals, are supposed to believe in. And which would you rather the sign’s owner believe: that there are Clinton supporters in the neighborhood going around destroying Trump signs, or that a neighbor kid did something dumb and now feels bad about it?Report
I’m gonna dissent a bit.
Yes, your daughter shouldn’t have knocked over the Trump sign. Yes, she should apologize. Bringing a piece offering is not a bad idea, either.
But… what we’re talking about here is a teenager engaging in a bit of petty vandalism. It’s not good, but it is an extremely common form of teenage mischief. It actually requires very little in the form of explanation. If we’re seeking to attach broader meaning to anything, I gotta wonder about a political and cultural environment that inclines us to invest routine adolescent obnoxiousness with meaning beyond the obvious.Report
But this is not a case best analogized to breaking a garden gnome.
From the essay:
There is more than mere adolescent obnoxiousness here.
Or, if there isn’t, the adolescent in question went to some effort to communicate that there is more than mere adolescent obnoxiousness here.Report
I am not yet a parent but there is a sufficiently large age gap between myself and my siblings that I was able to see my brothers going through their teenage years from a more or less adult perspective. Kids can be pretty creative at justifying their mayhem when discipline is in order. If theyre clever enough the excuse will be perfectly designed to pull their parents’ strings.Report
Well, if that’s the case, what we’ve got here is someone engaging in vandalism and then, once caught, appealing to concepts like Virtue and Justice to justify said vandalism.
Which moves us into “jeez, this is even worse than kicking a sign” territory.Report
I’m sorry, but where in hell do we teach kids that kicking yard signs is the way to do something about anything?
I don’t give this kid any credit at all. He’s not that popcorn hacker who got into Palin’s e-mail. That kid gets to pull that card (never mind his pa was a Democratic legislator). That kid was actually doing something that might be effective (if stupid and shortsighted).
I know half a dozen ways I’d set this kid to work, and say “now you’re doing something to stop trump.” (Hell, sign the kid up with what’s left of ACORN. Go ahead and troll the left while you’re at it — might as well have SOME fun, eh?).Report
Hey, I’m not saying I *CONDONE* it. I’m just saying that I understand the impulse.
Part of becoming a grownup is to recognize those impulses, tamp them down into a little black ball, and pretending that they don’t exist and never have.Report
I agree with your sentiment. Teenagers doing dumb teenager stuff probably doesn’t merit serious analysis of the political implications. A reminder of the rules of being a good neighbor is probably sufficient.Report
Yes, it goddamn does.
Because this? This was dumb teenager stuff, from a WASPy neighborhood.
Let me tell you the same story, set thirty years prior, in an inner city neighborhood.
Three black boys with stones in their hands, standing outside a Jewish storeowner’s window. They all say (as boys do) that they’re gonna throw on three. Well, two of the boys stayed their hands, but the third one threw (one guess as to which I was talking to) — broke that thousand dollar window, he did. And he ran like hell, as did his friends. Thirty years late, he’s still sorry for it. But just like Maud’s kid, he never did go back and apologize.
Analyze that, folks. Because if you don’t get why the kids did that, if you don’t understand that frustration, that show-off-edness, that undercurrent of rage… well, you ain’t gonna write good policy. You can’t fix what you don’t understand is broke, after all.Report
The proper means of addressing the situation aside, I wanted to acknowledge what a thoroughly fascinating glimpse into the pressures pulling our author’s actions in different directions the essay offers. I think it’s a deeply honest and open look inside someone’s conscience, and an insightful examination of self. No wonder that the result is conflicted and ambiguous: nearly any of us, if we are truly honest, are susceptible to these sorts of competing imperatives. It’s a privilege to be able to run essays like this.Report
Yes. Agreed 100%.Report
Ditto.Report