The Arcana of Political Economy: A Follow-Up
Author’s Note: This post is a follow-up to my original post on the political economy of magic. It’s highly recommended that you read that original post and the discussion thread after.
I’m happy to see my original post spawned a slew of discussion. I found it interesting how the concerns raised by a commentariat at a political(ish) site are somewhat different than what you’d see in your typical RPG GM discussion board. I hope to continue posts on this theme (or similar themes!) in the future and the interest shown by readers is very promising! (For another example of this sort of post see here.)
A number of issues have been brought to my attention which I’ll address the discussion points by subheading below.
Your Math is Wrong!
Fnord has made the good point that my statistical assumptions for the distribution of intelligence and other ability scores within the population was wrong. Mea culpa. In fact I’m going to flat out admit here that I screwed up. I got lazy writing a post at 3am and decided to take a short cut in determining the standard deviation and distribution of ability scores. This is a screw up and Fnord is correct that the proportion of the population with sufficiently high ability scores would be 15% rather than 7%.
Proportion of Magic Users in Society and Restrictions on Levels
In the original post I posited that there would be distributional limits to how much of the population had sufficient intelligence to become an accomplished spellcaster (defined as a 5th level caster or higher). The question becomes what sort of training would actually be required to convert the potential spellcasters into actual ones. In this vein, fellow frontpager James K pointed out that I neglected to account for level spreads in determining the number of spellcasters.
In terms of D&D mechanics there are a number of methods to determine the level distribution of a population.
The first is the method for settlement population generation provided in the 3E/3.5E version of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. This guide tells us that the highest level of a given class is based upon the overall population of a settlement. In addition, the “PC classes” (for the purposes of this discussion they are: barbarian, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, wizard) have a scaling number of individuals based on halving total levels (e.g. if a 10th level wizard is the highest level wizard in a settlement, there would be 2 5th level wizards, 4 3rd level wizards and 8 1st level wizards). NPC classes (adept, aristocrat, commoner, expert and warrior) have different distributions particularly for 1st level characters which assumes a distribution of 91% commoners, 5% warriors, 3% experts and 0.5% for adepts and aristocrats.
Based on this methodology we come to a total number of spellcasters ranging from between 1-4% of the population. When we narrow down the number of casters to those above 5th level, the proportion becomes so small to be statistically insignificant in everything smaller than a village, and only gradually increases to about 0.1% of the population for a large city or metropolis. For comparisons sake, the settlement sizes used for this example rely on the DMG and are assumed to be: Thorp – 80, Hamlet – 400, Village – 900, Small Town – 2,000, Large Town – 5,000, Small City – 12,000, Large City – 25,000, Metropolis – 50,000.
Now, this isn’t terribly far from my original description of about 7% of the population having the potential for spellcasting and about 10% of that actually becoming accomplished spellcasters. This puts spellcasting roughly on par with attaining a graduate degree in terms of proportion of actual spellcasters to the potential population. I would thus be comfortable with assuming 6-7 years of schooling beyond basic primary education as a prerequisite for spellcasting of any sort, including harnessing innate magic (sorcery), or priestly invocations (clerics, druids) from deities.
A resulting population of 0.15% for accomplished spellcasters seems reasonable under this metric, with a substantial number of hedge practitioners and lower level casters rounding out the numbers to about 3% of the population. If we assume a population of about 5 million for an average sized political unit we get about 150,000 total spellcasters and about 7500 highly accomplished spellcasters.
Social Position of Magic Users and Militarization of Magic
Given the relative scarcity of magic users, what would their position in society be?
Burt, Marchmaine, bookdragon and Pat all bring up examples of how magic users would be treated in society.
Burt brings up the simple point that unless there’s some sort of counterbalancing force, the likelihood is that mages would make up a sort of oligarchy. Remo and bookdragon build upon this concept and suggest that mages would be so valuable that they would be treated as a protected class in conflict or be regarded more as spoils of war than frontline fighters. Pat furthers this by noting the terrible hit-dice that most spellcasting classes have which makes them unsuitable for a role on the frontlines. Marchmaine on the other hand, believes that mages could (due to their scarcity) become an exploited underclass used to power mundane applications of extra-dimensional energy such as heating steam turbines.
First, I think it’s important to distinguish between standard spellcasters (henceforth known as “hedge casters”) and more accomplished spellcasters (which will be known simply as mages). So far as our numbers above posit, there are a substantial (somewhere in the order of 20:1) more hedge casters in the general population than mages or clerics. Hedge casters can be anything from a low level cleric/wizard (an understudy or an apprentice, or a washout, perhaps) to more accomplished adepts or bards who practice unorthodox or unrefined magic. Even in small settlements they are likely to have some presence, serving as a local apothecary or parish priest.
A hedge caster can practice a fair amount of magic even without the levels and flash granted by higher levels. Prestidigitation , Light, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, and Message are all cantrips or orisons (0th level spells) while a quick step up to 1st level gives access to Enlarge/Reduce Person, Cure Light Wounds, or Endure Elements. A hedge caster can therefore make a relatively effective part of a military unit (such as a minor squad healer, or the equivalent of a radio operator) and their relative abundance makes them easy enough to recruit for this sort of endeavor.
Mages on the other hand are another breed entirely. Remember that Craft Magic Arms and Armor requires at least a 5th level caster, as does Craft Wand. More esoteric creations such as Forge Ring or Craft Staff require even higher level casters. High level priests and wizards would be in short supply, but wield substantial influence through their spells and crafts.
As Pinky points out, however, this power can be diluted by having multiple sources of magic. The presence of clerics, sorcerers, druids or psionicists in addition to wizards would complicate the equation by providing alternative means of accessing high level spells. Unless these different types of casters form a unified bloc against non-magical authorities, those without magic are likely to play competing groups against one another based on their different priorities. Mages for example might covet the resources provided by wealthy patrons for research and development, while clerics would prefer to wield influence through increasing the number of worshippers for their deity.
This diffusion, more than anything else is likely to defang the ability of mages to rule large swaths of the population arbitrarily. It would also provide secular authorities with the leverage needed to encourage mages to participate in more mundane aspects of governance, ranging from serving as frontline spellcasters to providing tutelage to aspiring magic users. In such a world, it’s likely that those of higher social classes who are capable of investing time and money into education would be able to wield magic of some sort, though to a lesser extent than dedicated magic users.
Portability of Magic
Fnord and Murali brought up a spirited point about the portability of magic. The question in this regard is just how cost-effective crafting large numbers of magic items would be.
Even a +1 weapon costs around 2,400 gp when the price of the base masterwork item is factored into the equation. According to the System Reference Document 50gp is equal to one pound of gold. So even a basic magic weapon costs the equivalent of 48 pounds of gold (based on current spot prices, this would be about 1.2 million US dollars) while a basic 3rd level spell wand would cost 225 lbs of gold (or 5.8 million USD). A staff of power would be an enormous investment of 211,000gp, equivalent to 2 tons of gold; essentially the cost of a modern fighter or bomber. (One might argue that a wizard with a staff of power is perhaps as effective as any F-35 on a battlefield, but it’s still a substantial sum of money).
That is to say, with these sorts of costs, the likelihood that a feudal arrangement could exist to support lords rich enough to have hereditary magic arms and armor of substantial power to defend large swaths of land. Since being able to recruit large numbers of soldiers is immaterial if you can just vaporize them or force them to fight one another with a few words, the premium placed on powerful individuals with magic items would be substantial. Given that it takes an enormous amount of resources to create the magic items to effectively equip a single individual, you might see a pattern here where feudal landholdings would make sense to make individual leviathans.
The Economics of Magic (Continued…)
Finally I want to address the concept of magic and economics more broadly. There was some debate as to whether or not the ability to create things out of thin air would create either a. a bifurcated economy or b. just shift the costs toward other areas. Very briefly at the end I’d like to weigh in here.
Fnord and Murali have essentially made my point in this matter, in that the demand for certain products will just shift factors of production elsewhere if magic replaces traditional methods of creation. The economic impact of conjuration spells is likely to be felt in the innovation fields for manufacturing or resource extraction than in access to products by the poor or working class. You don’t need steam power drills to extract iron in a world where you have Wall of Iron. Nor do you really need the industrial capability to construct iron-hull warships if you can simply use the Ironwood spell to convert a wooden warship into an armored, fireproofed ship.
The labor savings that come from automation or improved factors of production are likely to be produced by magical means rather than technological ones. Technology would likely end up being integrated into magic as assists, rather than independently on its own.
The next post on this subject will be a comparative sketch of a couple of magic equipped societies. I will be using examples out of Avlis, one in the present continent of Negaria which has the typical mix of D&D caster classes while another will be a historical society on the opposite side of the world run by mages. Stay tuned!
What would the presence of (relatively cheap and easy) mind-control powers do to politics? Teleportation and trivial dimensional travel to geopolitics?
DnD has the unfortunate characteristic of being tweaked for the small organized party to do interesting things, which unfortunately means that small organized groups can do a lot of damage before they go down, including slaughtering many of any state’s would-be leadership. And there is now no limit that there is only one party of PCs in the world. Your advanced civilization might form a possible equilibrium if only barbarians did not rampage through repeatedly, for a tiny chance to declare themselves Emperor of Rome.
Furthermore, magic tends to accumulate quadratically per level, which means that the handful of top-tier spellcasters are going to find themselves holding quite a bit of influence by merely existing. At least nuclear stockpiles don’t have opinions.
That being the broad nature of DnD. The not-so-board nature of DnD is opening reality up to pathological munchkinry like Pun Pun, or more finely-tuned possibilities like the anti-osmium bomb, or utter against-the-spirit-of-any-sense-whatsoeverexploits.
That last link actually has some astute observations regarding the metal market.Report
I mentioned Wall of Iron and Fabricate specifically in the previous thread as economy breaking spells. But it doesn’t work QUITE the way described; per the fabricate spell, the original material “costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created”. The rules for the Craft skill specify that the raw materials required to craft an object cost 1/3 the final value of the object. 1 pound of iron costs 1 sp, rather less than 1/3 the cost of a dagger. Therefore, one pound of iron is insufficient to create a dagger using fabricate (what else you do need is less clear, but presumably charcoal, etc, just like a smith would).
The peasant rail gun is clearly a case of trying to have it both ways with strict adherence to the rules and fantasy physics. If you’re going to imagine a world where you blindly follow the rules, a world where a ten-foot pool can be passed down 2 miles in a 6 second period, clearly the physics of kinetic energy and momentum are different already. Once the final peasant throws the pole, it’s exactly as destructive as the rules say it is (1d6+Strength modifier, probably, as an improvised thrown spear).Report
Wall of Iron really isn’t as economy breaking as one might think. It might reduce the price of iron ore, but even with fabricate it doesn’t really do much more than free up miners to go mine something else.
And of course, it being a 6th level spell, one wonders if it’s really worthwhile investment of time for something as precious as a 11th level caster. I mean even a 20th level caster can only make about two tons of iron per casting. With the material cost being 50gp per casting, that works out to about 8lbs of iron per 1lbs of SP invested.
Which granted is probably more efficient than mining, but probably better ways of using that spell slot. (like say, raising the dead)Report
That would mess with population dynamics and political dynasties pretty bad.Report
Peasant Railguns almost work because the whole turn based system has its flaws in emulating reality.
Pun Pun is a case of abusing rules.
Both are cases of abusing the broken parts of a system. The Peasant Railgun doesnt even work – The last peasant throws the stair with his own Strenght, doesnt matter if that stair travaled at Mach 3 before reaching it.
But i believe your point is this: The D&D System is broken. If we try to get a good simulation out of it, we will end up with broken results because the base of the system is broken.
This is exactly true in how powerful wizards become as they gain levels. The system works in such a way that you might not need a bunch of high level wizards to be the most powerful nation – only the highest level one.Report
Part of my trouble here is that I’m an ancient old gaming fart and I’m still looking at the world in first edition eyes. Well, and Palladium eyes and GURPS eyes, but not really AD&D 3rd edition eyes.
I really like this series, though.Report
Oh, there are plenty of spells in GURPS Magic that can upset the economy, too.Report
The Palladium rules for the Diabolist, in particular, made them potentially devastating in an urban setting.Report
The 1 lb of gold = 50 gp price point seems to suggest that gold is rather more common in D&D world than in reality, or else you get somewhat odd results. Poor quality meals for one day costs a silver piece, or 1/500 of the price of a pound of gold. Current spot prices for gold make that about $50 dollars; one could spend $50/day on meals, certainly, but you probably wouldn’t call the quality you get poor. Just about everything is too expensive if you peg it to current gold prices and 50 gp = 1 lb. So the magical item situation is somewhat less dire than you might imagine (though the cost of your +1 sword could feed a dozen families for a year, so they’re still pretty expensive).Report
Keep in mind: Going up a level costs 1000 gp/current level. Wanna become a level 2 unix admin? That’ll be 20 pounds of gold, please.Report
There’s an old Dragon magazine article about 1st edition that showed that if you followed the rules directly, your players languished at low levels for a *very* long time until they could afford training.Report
In fairness, the gold:silver ratio in D&D actually makes no sense, unless a silver piece is substantially heavier than a gold piece. (Since it’s only 10:1 when the RL price differential is anywhere from 50:1 onward)Report
Per the rules, all coins weigh about a third of an ounce, regardless of what metal they’re coined from. Given the difference in weight, that suggests larger silver and copper pieces.
Still, those price lists were set with the assumption that PCs operate on the gold standard. Honestly, any vaguely realistic set of rules will just divide all costs by 10, so that poor quality meal is $5/day, and PCs (at least at low level) operate on the silver standard.Report
All it means is that D&D worlds have a different relative abundance of gold and silver than Earth does. Of all the differences between real life and D&D, that is easily one of the most plausible.
When comparing prices in decoupled economies you shouldn’t use specie as a benchmark, but rather some tangible good – the best is labour. Compare labour hours and you’ll have a better shot at generating purchasing power equivalent costs.Report
The rules for Profession specify that you make 1/2 your skill role in gp each week. For a first level character with maximum ranks but no bonus from attributes, feats, etc, their modifier is +4, so if they Take 10 they earn 7.5 gp = 75 sp per week.Report
Which is interesting because that’s substantially more than the 7 sp per week that a peasant is assumed to earn. (There’s a line in the DMG about how commoners earn 1 sp/day)Report
If you only have 1d2 hit points, you’re not going to exert yourself too much or put yourself in harm’s way.
That’s what heroes are for.Report
First my math was clearly a bit confused, so my number is slightly off. A +4 Profession skill modifier means a result of 14 with Take 10, or an average result of 14.5 if you roll, so 7 gp or 7.25 gp per week, not 7.5.
The Profession skill states that totally untrained laborers make 1 sp/day, as you suggest. So we’re seeing quite a divergence in skilled versus unskilled labor. Profession is not usable untrained, so a single rank in Profession takes your daily earnings from 7 sp/week to 5 gp/week.Report
At least Profession is a class skill, even for commoners!
But it does show a substantial gap between skilled and unskilled labor, akin to skilled labor in the US vs. unskilled labor in China.Report
Carry Trade? 😉Report
I have no more than layman’s knowledge of D&D, but this series is absolutely enthralling. More please.Report
If we take the D&D cost for magic then we can quickly come to one conclusion: Magic is too expensive to be permanent.
Like you pointed out, even the simplest magical items would cost an excess of a million dollars. That would mean that the group who can afford them is very limited.
But then, that is a problem with the D&D economic design. Thats a whole other can of worms.
The whole design is flawed – someone that exists in the world and is not a adventurer is not able to pay for his own food with the wages the system atributes for himself.
I will enter another problem in your model: How are levels spread out? Powerful mages might be exceedingly rare, mages powerful enough to actually make some of the higher tier magic might be so rare that they are invaluable.
One thing must be pointed out – is magical talent ‘natural’, or is it just intelligence and study? D&D assumes the latter, but what if not everyone can become a mage to start with?
All in all, i think that the D&D template is the wrong way to try to discuss something like this,
because the system itself is too far away from reality.
Let me try to show it by example: Look at the US Senate.
– Would you agree that those are some of the highest level Politicians on the US?
– How much more eloquent are they than, lets say, State Governors?
– How much are those more eloquent than City Prefects?
The answer is usually – a bit, but not really much. How far are these guys apart in levels? Now, the problem with D&D – how far are these guys apart in the rest of their life’s, on things that aren’t related to politics? The guys that are higher level, because of rules constraints, can be as more effective on out of politics things as they are on politics things. Because everything in D&D is limited by someone’s level.
So, what i am saying is: If you want a broader discussion on how magic would impact a society, use a system that allows for such broader discussion. A higher level wizard in D&D will be better than a lower level wizard in *everything* simply because he is higher level. A much more realistic approach is for someone to be better at something, and someone else be better at something else. Or ignore the system itself – make base assumptions like how powerful are mages in general, what they can and cannot do, and how many people are mages and start from there.
To hammer the point, one more time: A 5th level generalist wizard is a better fire wizard than a 3rd level fire specialist wizard in D&D.Report
3rd Edition introduced “Sorcerers” in addition to Wizards to distinguish “natural talent” spellcasters from really, really intelligent craftsmen.
1st level Sorcerers could cast one, maybe two, spells a good number of times per day but learning a new spell was not up to them. You go up levels, you get assigned a new spell. Maybe it’s Melf’s Acid Arrow, maybe it’s Featherfall. Maybe it’s Summon Monster II. That’s what you get. At least you can cast it 5 times before bedtime. So it’s a lot more fun than a wizard who casts sleep and then says “I’m done until tomorrow. I’ll try to use my sling.”
Wizards, on the other hand, get 1 spell at 1st level… but that spell could be *ANY* first level spell on any given day (provided it’s in the spellbook). Today it’s Color Spray. Tomorrow it’s Power Word: Belch. The day after that, who knows. At 3rd level they can make wands, I think it is. At 5th, rods. At 7th, potions. And so on. Unlimited power, limited counterspace. The ultimate NPC class.Report
The system doesnt break down at higher levels – Even at somewhat low levels things will get weird:
Examples:
Mending make a lot of professions unnecessary. And virtually every mage can cast it. Avaliable at level 1.
Unseen Servant instead of manofactories. A level 3 wizard could conjure enough servants to do repetitive work as well as a full timed employee. At level 4, he is doing the work of 3 people. At level 5, 7 people.
Charm Person. Politiks.
Disguise Self. Infiltration.
All of those are spells that are avaliable for a level 1 wizard.
At Spell level 2 ( character level 3), you get:
Detect Thoughs – Superficial thoughs only, but well… diplamacy when you know what the other is thinking?
Alter Self for a complete infiltration tool.
Suggestion is also really nice – Person follows a suggested course of action. Again, diplomacy?
Also, Zone of Truth would make interrogations much different.
Fly, Invisibility, Protection from Projectiles, Fireball.
A few 6th level wizards would change the way wars were fought the same way artillery did.
D&D has a lot of reality breaking spells that are avaliable to virtually every mage/bard/cleric. They may not be so useful for a group of adventurers that are going up against hostile monsters, but for day-to-day usage? Of course, on the high end there will be a mage on each side trying to figure out if the other side is casting something against your government representant, but what is there to avoid me casting charm person on the owner of the bar down the road? Or suggestion on some pretty lady i meet? If magic use is not prevalent through the world, few people will have defenses or be prepared to deal with it. If it IS prevalent, then the whole premisse changes again, doesnt it?Report
I don’t recall, but isn’t there a “transmute” spell or a potion that allows for turning iron into gold? If so, this could also have an economic impact.
As to the rarity of spell casters, common sense would dictate that the more powerful casters be in service to powerful lords, or be lords themselves. If in service, they would be likely supervising a staff of underlings working on a variety of efforts: crafting magic weapons/armor, creating spell scrolls for lower level casters serving in the armed forces, construction of assault/defensive weapons such as siege engines, surveying the astral/ethereal planes and keeping track of the coming and goings of demonic servants, etc. and advising the Lord on magical matters. I’d also expect that there would be similar type of work to be performed as part of your “guild tax/obligations”
Keep up the good work. This is quite interesting.Report