Skip to content

Ordinary Times

A place of politics, culture, and discourse

Primary Menu
  • Log-in
  • Welcome!
    • Masthead
    • Inquiries
    • Guest Posting Policy
    • About Feature Images
  • Community
    • Commentareum
    • State of the Discussion (beta)
    • Commenting Policy
    • The 500kth Ordinary Comment
    • The 750kth Ordinary Comment
  • Follow Us
    • On Facebook
    • On Twitter
    • Entries RSS
    • Comments RSS
  • Friends
    • Arc Digital
    • Outside the Beltway
    • Splice Today
    • Elections Daily
    • Liberal Currents
    • The Bulwark
    • Conservative Pathways
    • Misfits Politics
    • American Creation
  • Blog Archives
    • Blinded Trials
    • Mindless Diversions
    • Bookclubs!
    • Not a Potted Plant
    • Dutch Courage
    • Journeys in Alterity
    • The 49th
    • Jubilee
    • Safe Depository
  • Home
  • 2013
  • April
  • 15
  • Gosnell and our inadequate public discourse on abortion

Gosnell and our inadequate public discourse on abortion

Tim Carney wrote yesterday that when Obama was a state senator, he “repeatedly voted against legislation requiring hospitals to care for babies born during abortions” because “[s]uch laws might somehow be used in the future to infringe on abortion’s legality.”  Carney argues that “Gosnell’s method for aborting babies wasn’t substantially different from a procedure Obama enthusiastically defends.”  Today, the White House has no comment on Gosnell, noting that it concerns on an ongoing legal matter.  A totally valid response—is what [...]
Tim Kowal April 15, 2013

Tim Carney wrote yesterday that when Obama was a state senator, he “repeatedly voted against legislation requiring hospitals to care for babies born during abortions” because “[s]uch laws might somehow be used in the future to infringe on abortion’s legality.”  Carney argues that “Gosnell’s method for aborting babies wasn’t substantially different from a procedure Obama enthusiastically defends.” 

Today, the White House has no comment on Gosnell, noting that it concerns on an ongoing legal matter.  A totally valid response—is what I would have said if Obama didn’t have such a track record of commenting on ongoing legal matters when he felt it was politically advantageous to do so.  White House press secretary Jay Carney also had no comment on whether, similar to Newtown, babies who are being snuffed out in Gosnellian clinics deserve a vote on some new form of preventive legislation.  No such legislation has been proposed, Carney responded.  And besides, Carney went on, “the President’s views on choice are quite clear.” 

I’m surprised no one in the comments to my last post drew the connection to Alisa LaPolt Snow, the Planned Parenthood rep who suggested to a Florida legislator that babies born alive do not need further intervention from the state.  Here’s a remarkably on-point exchange:

One of the lawmakers asked her what Planned Parenthood’s position would be if a baby is born as a result of a botched abortion.

"We believe that any decision that’s made should be left up to the woman, her family and the physician," she said.

Whoops. Had the media been covering Gosnell’s trial, Ms. LaPolt Snow probably could have qualified her response a bit better.  And then there was this: 

When another lawmaker asks her specifically what Planned Parenthood does when such a scenario happens at its clinics, she said simply, "I do not have that information."

Another lawmaker made the point that the baby born alive would become a patient as well, not just the mother.

"That’s a very good question," Snow said. "I really don’t know how to answer that."

Watching the exchange before the Gosnell story broke, I chalked that up to a failure of imagination.  A dismal failure, to be sure, but if there aren’t any reported incidents of abortion doctors murdering and mutilating babies born alive, that’s about the end of the discussion.  But if there are such incidents, well, Ms. LaPolt Snow, we have some more questions for you. 

Ms. LaPolt Snow’s responses severely undercut the suggestion that we’ve already closed the loop on the relevant moral and policy questions. As her comments indicate, while we might expect better sterilization procedures and overall compliance with health codes in abortion clinics, the basic evil of what happened in Gosnell’s clinic is not terribly surprising given the principles implicated in abortion policy when that policy is not subjected to the rigors of serious and sustained public scrutiny, when those discussions are conducted with kid-gloves, and when they are just left to judges to decide as if these questions could be answered by lawyers alone. I take the Gosnell case as an example of the failure to trace a principle to its possible consequences. "In other countries,” Edmund Burke once wrote, “the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle."

Somewhere between then and now, we have thrown in with the mercurial cast.  We vote not when we have judged the badness of a principle and anticipated an evil.  In the case of gun control, we are specifically asked not to wait and judge, but to judge now, while we’re still overcome with grief about it—because we’re still overcome with grief about it. 

Abortion policy, of course, developed quite differently than gun control policy.  But it similarly developed without enough of an attempt to anticipate its evils.  I suspect the Gosnell case suggests a wrong principle lurking in our abortion policy.  While most of mainstream discussion on the topic is polite and civil, it’s nonetheless failing to expose that wrong principle.  Our discourse is not working.  How do we fix it?

Continue Reading

Previous: Rand Paul, Victim
Next: The Second SCOTUS Standing Scandal

Related Stories

4th Circuit Court on Abrego Garcia: Read It For Yourself

OT Editors April 18, 2025 3
Abrego Garcia

The Lawless Lying Duplicitous Bastards of Abrego Garcia

Michael Siegel April 15, 2025 110
Trump Deportation Ruling

SCOTUS Ruling on Trump Deportations: Read It For Yourself

OT Editors April 8, 2025

Recent Comments

  • Mike Schilling on Justice Souter Has Passed AwayAlso known as the justice highly principled conservative Erick Erickson called a "goat-f**ing child…
  • CJCOLUCCI in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025Enlighten me as to why this would be any business of yours.
  • Dark Matter in reply to LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025First, presumably the things that are normally illegal or banned are still illegal or banned so no,…
  • Jaybird in reply to Chris on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025It's like cannibalism. It's always the savages in the next tribe over.
  • Chris in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025No, but I gather it is in, like upstate New York, Binghamton, that sort of thing.
  • LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025DHS Secretary Kristi Noem proposes Citizenship:The Reality TV Show https://www.thedailybeast.com/kri…
  • Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025Unfortunately, those definitions either assume Hamas won't behave like Hamas or they have special ca…
  • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025Are you, CJ, still not “really” white yet back there in the tri-state area?
  • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025Did the vowel at the end tip you off?
  • Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025Ethnic Cleansing was the best play a few months ago, sure. Too many people are looking at their watc…

Devcat Reports

Devcat image

Problems persist. We appreciate your patience.

More Comments

  • Dark Matter in reply to LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to Chris on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq in reply to InMD on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq in reply to KenB on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • InMD in reply to KenB on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • KenB on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
April 2013
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
282930  
« Mar   May »

Meta

  • Log in
  • Entries feed
  • Comments feed
  • WordPress.org

You may have missed

boohoo

The Baseball Outlook; It Depends on the Point of View

Clare Briggs May 15, 2025
congrats

Weekend Plans Post: The Last Graduation

Jaybird May 15, 2025
birthdaymachine

The Birthday Machine

Clare Briggs May 14, 2025
albums

Wednesday Music: Bob Mould Does It Again

Jaybird May 14, 2025

Recent Comments

  • Mike Schilling on Justice Souter Has Passed Away
  • CJCOLUCCI in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025

Recent Comments

  • Mike Schilling on Justice Souter Has Passed Away
  • CJCOLUCCI in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Dark Matter in reply to LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to Chris on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Chris in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025

Ordinary Twitter

Tweets by Ordinarians

Recent Comments

  • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to Chris on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq in reply to InMD on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq in reply to KenB on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • InMD in reply to KenB on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • KenB on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • LeeEsq on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Chris in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
  • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird on Open Mic for the Week of 5/12/2025
Copyright © All rights reserved. | MoreNews by AF themes.