So you want a citation to show that our economy is still in pretty decent shape? I mean, yes we're in a recession with bad unemployment, but we're no worse off than any other country (we are by some metrics, but not by any that would point to our decline). We're still fantastically rich.

Didn't he add in Jar Jar to the old films in the last round of edits? At least in the background?

And I liked the Ewoks, but I saw these first when I was really young, so I was supposed to like the Ewoks.

It's still way better than the first one. Luke is so goddamn annoying in the first one it's almost unbearable.

Look, I think it's great you opposed the Libyan war, and I'm fine that you disagree on HSR. I just find it hyperbolic as hell to claim that mass transit is worse than bombing people. If that's "on me" and not you, okay. I'm not sure what that even means in this context, but okay.

Yeah, trust me, I get this argument. My counter is not that the government will not spend money badly or that they have lost our trust. It is simply that the alternative to this is cuts from those who can least afford them, and an austerity that will, given the circumstances, very likely put an even greater drag on the economy.

I guess my other problem with this ongoing discussion is that it's hard to read it as anything other than a discussion of the books in question, and yet many people are now joining into the debate who have not read these particular books. The assumption so far has been that Martin's work is full of gratuitous descriptions of rape, which is simply untrue.

Nor can we safely answer any of these questions given that the instances they come up in may vary widely depending on the book, its author, its intended audience, and so forth.

In the end, the answer to each question is "maybe, it depends".

I'm pretty sure you're missing the forest for the trees here, Rufus. Declinists are hardly bound to just the political world; cultural declinism is probably even more common. My point is not that movies or music are necessarily better or worse now, it's that anyone claiming that all art, fiction, music (or whatever) used to be better are wrong. Sure, it's all about taste. That's not an argument that the declinists are right though is it?

What about an author who has a Jewish character who the other characters perceive as a "greedy Jew" but who is portrayed as most certainly not that - isn't that a portrayal, possibly at least, of that character's struggles against stereotypes and prejudice? Why should it be any different with misogyny or sexism?

Saying that realism and gritty-realism in fiction is a window into "real life" is hardly disingenuous. There was terrible violence in 'The Kite Runner' for instance - it was hard to read. But it did offer me a window into a part of the real world I didn't understand. Fantasy can do this also, by taking us into times and places where our own historical prejudices and political systems are refashioned and shown in a new light.

Benjamin - thanks for the in-depth comment. I don't have time now, but I want to pick it apart and go into more depth on it soon!

No I'm still an individual rights guy, Mike. Just with a somewhat different make-up than you.

If I remember that I've written it. That's always the issue.

And thanks very much.

I knew it looked wrong. I blame Christopher for planting the misspelling into my brain.

Right - he just looks like a dude walking.

I think it is narrowly a critique of feudalism. More broadly it's a critique of war, and certainly a critique of power. But I think even more broadly it's a deconstruction of the romanticism and nostalgia that often accompanies the genre.

Jeff - nonsense. His father forced him to have sex after forcing him to watch the girl he loved get gang raped. Forced sex is rape. I'm sure her experience was worse, but both were rape. Sady wants us to think that Tyrion participated. I'm sorry, but if you're violently forced to participate in a rape, you're also a victim.

First of all - why should a picture of a black man bother anyone when the piece in question is about the lack of crime going on and the reasons behind people looting often having to do with searching for basic necessities and/or poverty and the perception of police abuse? Why would that be in any way racist?

Second of all what the hell makes you think this was a conservative piece? If you haven't read the piece, maybe you should do that before commenting. There's enough people at Kos bitching about a piece they haven't read already.

In Dance, Dany has a very consensual sexual affair and I think Dany, Mother of Dragons, conqueror and queen, Targeryen, etc. etc. is a very strong female character.

Katherine - re: descriptions of rape in Martin's books, it's actually quite rare. It's often back story, or implied, or it's an event that is prevented or simply spoken of. I haven't read all the books in a while, but I can't remember many at all. Maybe someone can help me here?

There are some very insecure straight men (though with the real homophobic ones you do wonder sometimes if they're really straight, and where all that anger comes from).

Aaron - all excellent points. Re: crying and not allowing men to have a more sensitive or emotive side - I think this actually really feeds into things like chauvinism and false confidence and homophobia. Sexual violence toward men may be more rare than toward women, but it's also more taboo to discuss. If a boy has sex with a woman, the natural societal reaction is "Good for him, he got laid!" But a twelve or thirteen year old boy having sex with a grown women is still every bit as creepy and horrible as it is with the sexes reversed.

This is why I keep hammering on the Tyrion thing. People naturally view his participation in the rape of Tysha as him being a rapist. But he was forced to have sex. I'm pretty sure if you're forced to have sex, that you were raped. It may not be conventional, but it's still forced sex, sexual assault, rape. We just don't think about these things that way. This is of a piece with the humor that surrounds prison rape much of the time.

Okay, this makes sense. This makes a lot of sense. I don't think I quite understand it in a way that I can completely empathize with it, because I think I just rankle at any sort of unnecessary censorship, or self-inflicted bubble that comes at the expense of openness, but I do see what you're saying.

And really, for me the blogging thing is personal, and I really like it when people get personal and if you've read a few of my posts you know me well enough to speak your mind and I appreciate it a lot actually.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Jaybird - sure, this makes plenty of sense. I get prickly because I actually, you know, spent real time responding to Doyle's post. I wrote a pretty long response, and I even spent some time re-reading and editing it which I don't always do. This is a far cry from calling someone the s word. But I get written off because...what, because I have a blog with the word Gentlemen in the title? Okay, so accumulated knowledge can either force you to build walls all around yourself or it can lead to some sort of perception or wisdom or something...more productive.

Katherine, thanks. That makes a lot of sense. I guess my frustration comes from this: if I post a link to a post of mine, I'd like to be told that's against the rules in a way that doesn't imply that I'm an asshole and then welcomed to post a comment without a link. Instead my next comment - with no link - was also blocked. And I'm labeled a troll and told that I'm a troll because I'm a man and so I don't know what sexism is. That rubs me the wrong way no matter how different two blogs may be, or how limited my exposure to sexism may be.

Not to mention, traffic-wise it's it's not as though we need a hand out from Tigerbeatdown.

I don't think it is as likely that men will be raped in war time. I have no idea why it should be presented that way in a book just for equal time. There are many instances of women being just plain hurt without sexual violence. Catelyn is killed at the Red Wedding (sort of?) Arya is beat up. Asha gets in some serious fights.

SPOILER for Dance
Dany is almost poisoned.
Theon is tortured and sexually assaulted.
Jon saves one female character and punishes her pursuers.