Thursday Throughput: The Heavy Price Of The Great Barrington Declaration Edition
[ThTh1] In the ongoing quest to defend Florida’s handling of the pandemic, Jay Bhattacharya, one of the co-authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, which I attacked here, said this:
COVID-19 mortality in locked down California vs. free Florida by age group through Sept. 22, 2021 (latest CDC data).
If the lockdowns accomplished anything, they harmed the old without protecting the young.
Lockdown = Let It Drip. pic.twitter.com/dNj5I4nLiK
— Jay Bhattacharya (@DrJBhattacharya) September 28, 2021
His point is that, if you correct for the older age of your typical Florida resident, the death rates in the two states are the same and therefore this vindicates a Great Barrington Declaration approach as opposed to lockdowns.
Now…never mind that Florida hasn’t actually used a Great Barrington Declaration approach. They’ve had restrictions, schools have resisted DeSantis’ edict against mask mandates and Florida has a decent vaccination rate. Never mind that California hasn’t done lockdowns; they’ve had restrictions and shelter-in-place but haven’t welded people into their home are anything. Never mind that the entire point of “flattening the curve” was that we would spread out cases so that hospitals did not get overwhelmed. Never mind that Dr. Bhattacharya, as is the Barrington disciple’s want, is cherry-picking two states. If you look at all 50 states, the pattern of red states having had a worse pandemic is glaringly obvious. Never mind that states with the worst overall death rates are either states that got hit early (New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts) or red states that have resisted restrictions (Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama).
No, let’s focus particularly on this on little comparison — Florida and California. At first blush, this point seems correct, but consider this:
Both states were hit early on, although it should be remembered that California instituted COVID-19 restrictions immediately and managed to avoid the fate of New York, which was also hit early. California had a worse second wave. But since mass vaccination began early this year, the two states have diverged. On March 31, California had lost 58,000 people to the virus and Florida 34,000. Since then, California has lost 10,000 and Florida 20,000. And Florida is still piling up bodies. Now it’s possible the Delta wave will hit California harder at some point (although their case have fallen over the last two weeks). But at the rate we’re going, this comparison is only valid…as of today.
Note something else as well: the entire point of the Great Barrington Declaration was to keep the economy strong. But California’s economy has actually done slightly better than Florida’s, at least in terms of GDP growth. This reinforces a point that has been vindicated over and over: the best way to preserve the economy is to control the virus because, Great Barrington Declaration advocates notwithstanding, people aren’t going to risk a serious and potentially fatal disease to get a burger.
Ultimately, I feel like this is grasping at straws. It will be years before we know for certain what worked and what didn’t. And it is always important to emphasize that we can’t judge a pandemic response until the pandemic is over (as we saw with the DeSantis praise of earlier this year). But the data does not show that a Great Barrington Declaration approach saves the economy without costing lives. It shows that it extracts a heavy price on both.
[ThTh2] I mentioned the rabies vaccine in my Regeneron post. Here’s how I know about that vaccine. A few years ago, my wife and son woke up to find a bat in the house. The doctors recommended they get the rabies sequence since the bat fled and could not be tested. My daughter and I were out of town, but got the sequence in solidarity with them. It wasn’t bad. The immunoglobulin shot hurt, but the three vaccine shots were just pinpricks. And it was a relief to know we didn’t have to worry about a disease that, while extremely rare in humans, is 100% lethal.
A man in Illinois became the first rabies fatality in that state since 1954 after waking up to a bat on his neck but refusing the vaccine. If you wake up with a bat, get your shots. Because that one in a million chance is a horrible way to go.
[ThTh3] Are young people less “sex-positive”? There are myriad way you could look at this. Surveys indicate that kids are waiting longer to have sex than ever before. And while surveys are a poor tool at best, plunging birth rates for teenagers are an objective indication that this may reflect reality. Why this is happening is another question. Fear of intimacy, computers and economic struggles have all had their turn as explanations. A more recent twitch has linked this to porn. Gusatvo Turner argues that this claim is unsupported by any actual information other than elite naval gazing.
My pet theory? All of the above (except the porn thing). Plus, growing opportunities for girls means they are putting off dating and intimacy until later in life.
[ThTh4] Look, anyone could misplace a supernova for 900 years. Have you seen astronomer’s offices? Impossible to find anything in there.
[ThTh5] Behold the colors of the moon, a collage of lunar images it took a photographer ten years to accumulate.
[ThTh6] Aurora Borealis and a satellite launch. Does it get any better than that? No. No it doesn’t.
Here's a timelapse and real-time sequence of @NASA @ulalaunch #AtlasV rocket launch & pass through the aurora borealis in Ringvassøya, Norway tonight before their mission #Landsat9 🚀🌌@StormHour @TamithaSkov @iTromso @bladetnordlys @torybruno @visitnorway @chunder10 pic.twitter.com/SKvqZhQNY6
— Night Lights (@NightLights_AM) September 28, 2021
[ThTh7] Jupiter’s red spot is speeding up.
[ThTh8] Our West Virginia contingent will appreciate the latest awesomeness from Green Bank.
[ThTh9] This is a deep cut but quite hilarious.
Symbols https://t.co/U9rv1IjsNK pic.twitter.com/jd4NWH1rql
— Randall Munroe (@xkcd) September 24, 2021
[ThTh10] Reasons to like this energy-saving method of freezing? It’s already been shown to work and would require only minimal changes to the way we freeze things now.
[ThTh11] I’ll have to think a lot about this article, which talks about professors teaching students who use computers constantly but have no idea how file systems and directory structures work. I’ve not really seen this myself, but my students tend to be older. What I actually took away from it is that there might be future careers for people who are the computer equivalent of plumbers — don’t require a college education but have a nuts-and-bolts understanding of how computers actually function.
[ThTh12] Is it possible that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is based on an actual meteor strike? I’ve heard this theory for a while and it’s certainly plausible. If a decent-sized meteor hit a city, it would be like a nuclear bomb going off. But I hesitate to apply scientific thinking to biblical stories. We’ll see if more evidence comes out.
[ThTh13] I just knew the Scots would claim to have invented sex.
[ThTh14] We’re still puzzling out how life started on Earth. Here’s a new theory.
ThTh3: The decline of the mall and increased study pressures on teens has a lot to do with this. There don’t seem to be a lot of places where teens can just hang out with minimum adult supervision and learn to romantically interact with the gender of their choice in real life. A lot of these interactions are now online and done in the privacy of your home. There are even fewer places where they can go. Getting into college is a lot more difficult than it was for earlier sets of teens, so more time needs to be spent preparing for that if they want to go to college.Report
ThTh1; The divisions among libertarians to COVID-19 are some of the more interesting ideological reactions. Some just held very fast to the belief that COVID-19 was not a big deal because they didn’t like the mitigation efforts, and this was something that voluntary action wasn’t going to solve, and quickly went into COVID denialism. Others realized that COVID was a big deal and acted accordingly.Report
One hopes there will be some good grey literature on this in a year or two. Because I agree – the split is fascinating.Report
ThTh7: It was doing fine before Trump got elected.Report
ThTh2: I remember the kid-lore that you needed “20 shots in the stomach” to prevent rabies if a rabid animal bit you, and we were (understandably) leery of any animal we didn’t know. (I remember worrying slightly when the class pet mouse bit my thumb, but the teacher assured me that it wasn’t rabid – after all, it came straight from a pet store to our class – and furthermore it didn’t break the skin).
Still, as an adult, even if it WERE “20 shots in the stomach,” I can’t imagine dying of rabies to be preferable to that. But it’s good to hear that it’s a much more minor sequence, and that the painful part is the immunoglobulin shot. (Never have had one of those but have had corticosteroid shots which are pretty painful)Report
[ThTh3] maybe what’s happening is that kids are less normalized to the idea that you should just talk about your sex life to random adult strangers. It’s not that they’re being less frisky, it’s that they’re being less kiss-and-tell about it.Report
That could be another part of the equation. When pre-marital sex become more prevalent because of social change, pregnancy being easier to prevent, and STDs getting under control there was a big release in society. Not all of this was necessarily good because you had things like Jimmy Page kidnapping a 14 year old girl as a concubine and lot of other dark weirdness like the entire Brooke Shields photo shoot. After this became normalized, there was a necessary correction emphasizing things like mutual consent to get thing moving in a more ethical and healthy direction for society.Report
American Mind has a scathing article on the current backlash to “sex positivity”.
Dang.
(The whole thing is good.)Report
Getting statistics on this is really difficult but I think that the mid to late boomers, people who were in their twenties and early thirties during the time between the Pill and AIDS, probably had much more frequent casual sex than people my age, which is late Gen X and early Millennial. Most of the people born in and around 1980 that I know seem to have fairy typical love/sex lives for people in our age and socio-economic level. I’m an outliner.
So I’m kind of doubting both Goldberg’s thesis and the the American Mind’s criticism. To an extent we have more single people who never married is really complicated. It goes beyond sex but obviously includes sex. There are also economics in that it is a lot easier to live alone these days without suffering great poverty especially if you are a woman and a wider availability of potential partners than in the past. There is also increased time spent on the job and debates on how a good couple should behave towards each other. What do partners owe each other if consent is the supreme value?
I also think that most people aren’t really that great at getting hook ups without something to lower their inhibitions. This is why alcohol tends to be a very third rail issue when it comes to consent. I bet a lot of the casual sex in the pre-AIDS days involved drugs rather than stone cold sober people. So what you have is this relatively small group of people that like casual sex and is really good at getting it, a larger group that might like casual sex but is bad at getting it, and an even larger group with some rather inchoate wants and desires when it comes to love and sex. All the things we tell each other are just so stories.Report
The stats I saw (this reflects the stuff that I thought happened) showed that the boomers didn’t have quite as much sex as was advertised. I mean, sure, you had Studio 54 and the AIDS crisis, but there were a *LOT* of people in flyover who were still seeing The Beach Boys as degenerate rock and roll. Hollywood and magazines and all that stuff got all the press, but the boomers were mostly squares.
It was the GenXers that did all the stuff that they saw in the popular media that the boomers consumed.
And then the millennials receded back.
And then I look and say 16.1?!?!?!?!?!?!? ON FRIGGIN *AVERAGE*?!?!?!?
I DON’T THINK I KNOW SIXTEEN PEOPLEReport
Isn’t American Mind, a fascist Trump loving outfit?
ETA: Yep it is from those January 6, 2021 insurrection supporting and culture war loving, anti-democracy fascists at the Claremont Institute.
Reading fascist sources does not make someone open-minded.Report
I guess they’re wrong about sex too, then.
If you don’t want to read a fascist source talking about the backlash, here’s The New York Times.
(Personally, I think that the fascist site has more insight into the problem than Michelle Goldberg, but, you know… there you go.)Report
Being fascist curious and supporting should be an automatic disqualifier as a source on anything, yes. It is a categorical error.Report
Well, I hope you weren’t harmed by reading the excerpt from the essay.
I apologize if you were. My bad.Report
Jaybird, as always you troll with a D-minus grade point average. There is nothing brave or open-minded about being able to say “Well so what if they are fascist curious and oppose democracy, this is really interesting on an allegedly unrelated topic.”Report
Saul, this is a culture thing, I think.
I come from a cultural place that is so very different than the one that you appear to be coming from that I cannot comprehend the idea that I should not read something because the people who published it have odious ideas on other topics.
Like, I can’t even wrap my brain around it.
Like, to the point where I can’t believe that you believe this and that you’re only using this as a lever to be thrown away the second you want to read something that has only recently been recategorized as WrongThink.
Like, that is how far away I am from you on this.Report
Fascists were “recategorized” as Wrongthink when they lost WW2.Report
Seems like a pretty neat trick, then, to bundle recent stuff that you find odious with the Axis Powers.Report
Here is a piece that touches on these issues (and much, much more!) from a decidedly non-fascist curious source if either of you are interested.
https://angelanagle.substack.com/p/when-we-stopped-making-sense
Critical passage:
The ethos of the sexual revolution is today simultaneously ultra puritanical and ultra libertine depending on the context, so that the abandonment of your wife and children is now less of a social faux pas than asking someone out on a date at work – you can only get publicly disgraced and fired for the latter. Most just trundle along confused but hoping that we can survive unscathed through correctly intuiting what elites decide the new rules will be in any individual case. This now reaches into every aspect of life and the imposition of new rules is becoming ever more strange to us, which is already manifesting in ways that Fennell alludes to, and will one day bring the experiment crashing down, he claims.
“For the most part we experience it as senseless unreflectively, in that depth of our being where countless generations of human beings before us have trained us by heredity to assess – in a combined act of reason, feeling and intuition – any presentation purporting to be a framework for life. And that encounter with senselessness, when our minds and hearts are seeking sense, sends distress, a pain of the soul, pressing into our consciousness.” Nothing more natural, then, he says, than that we would want to stop reproducing this society altogether by becoming childless and sterile and to commit self-injury and the annihilation of consciousness through drugs, self-harm and suicide, even as we simultaneously believe this is the greatest model of life that has ever existed.Report
Interesting! Thank you!Report
Here is another non-fascist viewpoint.
Bob Avakian has very interesting and thought provoking idea about religion, touching on sexuality.
https://revcom.us/en/bob_avakian/collected-worksReport
He’s even got a section titled WHAT IS FASCISM!
Yes, bourgeois dictatorship in any form is very bad for the masses of people, very oppressive and repressive of the masses of people, and needs to be overthrown. But an overt fascist dictatorship that tramples on any pretense of upholding rights for people is not something that should be put in the category of “maybe it’ll be a positive change, or maybe it’ll be a negative change.”
Well, I’ll let y’all get back to telling people what they shouldn’t read.Report
I will definitely check it out.Report
Check out your local laws first.
The website contains material that is illegal in many Republican states.Report
Man, you definitely wouldn’t want to be lumped together with those people!Report
[ThTh11] Isn’t “computer-repair house calls” pretty much what Geek Squad does?
I have thought that an “in-house computer person” would be a really good thing for senior-living facilities to have; someone who could just go to people’s places and “fix it so that it works”, who would go around and set up the Zoom call and make sure it all works, etcetera.Report
One of the retirement benefits that my dad got from his uni was that they’d sent one of their IT guys out (during off hours; it was understood that retiree-calls were lower priority than anything on campus) to fix stuff that got broken.
I think it would be an excellent thing for senior centers to offer, or really, any community center. (Here there are people who will do anyone’s uncomplicated tax return for free or a donation; I am not sure why they wouldn’t have walk-in clinics to fix simple laptop problems)Report
I would do that for the Emeritus faculty when I worked for Civil Engineering. No house calls, but if they brought in the computer itself, I’d hook it up and get it running in my spare time.Report
ThTh12: Not just Sodom and Gomorrah, but also the walls of Jericho. Still, myth and legend often have some basis in fact
ThTh11: That’s how I started out in IT. Got out of the Navy and spent a year teaching myself about the nuts and guts of PCs and Windows 3.11 / 95 / NT 3.51, until I got hired as a student Admin support and learned about the Linux / Unix side. No formal training at all, ever, Just a lot of reading and digging around in the system.Report
“The walls fell” could easily mean “the invaders took the walls”.
Just like a man “falling” in battle doesn’t mean he fell down. If he takes a spear and it nails him to a wall, he has still “fallen”.Report
From the article:
Report
What is literal and what is a metaphor comes up a lot when trying to figure out historical warfare.
Famously, the debate whether Othismos was a literal push of shields like a football scrum or a metaphorical push forward by the phalanx. Or whether two-handed swordsmen could break pikes literally by chopping pike shafts (physically unlikely) or break pike formations by disrupting the organization they rely on.Report
When you get old enough, close to nothing is literal.
No literacy, no books, no science. It’s oral history at best with no effort to make it exact.
The previous “candidates” for natural disasters inspiring these stories were at about 2000BC. This event was about 3600BC, so something like 1500 years before the others. My expectation is that nothing survives usefully in oral history that long.Report
Take, for instance “the sun stood still in the sky” from the book of Joshua. Taken literally, it was enough for the Church to consider heliocentrism heresy and put Galileo under house arrest, when it’s clearly a metaphor for “that was one heckova long day”.Report
ThTH3: I think things like this can be attributed to way too many subjective and personal factors and the answer always ends up being a hodge podge while people love to use it to prove their priors. I have read that some young people are concerned about bringing kids into the world considering climate change. Opportunities for women beyond the home are also part of the issue.Report
ThTh3:
It’s weird to live long enough to see the sexual revolution, counter-revolution, and counter-counter-revolution.
Weird because a lot of the claims are based assumptions about the past which were never true but in fact reflect our own anxieties.
When I was an adolescent in the 70s, the conventional wisdom among both conservatives and liberals was that the previous generation had very little sex, and if they did, they certainly didn’t enjoy it, but did it missionary style in the dark under the covers.
But of course, that was nonsense. It is the sort of thing that parents like to tell their kids, and that kids themselves prefer to believe about their parents because it soothes the anxieties of both.
Another anxiety is the idea that everyone else is having great lusty sex, and we are somehow being left out. But the fact is that most people sex lives are pretty sedate and modest, even when given complete unfettered freedom.
I have no way of knowing if These Kids Today are having more or less sex than we did. I know that there were plenty of us in the 70s who were late bloomers and every bit as anxiety-ridden as anyone of any age.
But judging from all of human literature and culture from the beginning of time I kind of doubt that there was ever a time of uncomplicated anxiety-free and healthy sexual behavior.Report
[ThTh12] I expect no one remembers Velikovsky, and that’s a good thing, but he was at one time quite famous for explaining lots of Biblical miracle as a result of some very unlikely astronomy (more or less God using Venus to do trick pool shots.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_in_CollisionReport
[ThTh1] They must be smoking Great Barrington Reefer.Report
Young people are turning into “puritans” to the extent that a lot of the ways that young women were objectified in the past is being pushed against, and that many women don’t want to deal with being approached by men everywhere they go, etc. So, to a certain strain of Gen X men who still want to have sex w/ 20-something women and Gen X women who have weird politics that slapping a guy who gropes your ass is more ‘feminist’ than pushing for a society where the guy doesn’t do it in the first place because he’s wary of the societal backlash against him think that’s puritanism.
Another thing is frankly, a lot of mediocre sex is no longer happening from both ends – instead of going out to get hit on and ending up in bed with a dude who won’t perform, and will continue to bother them, women can watch a 6 hour marathon of Real Housewives than use a vibrator with some good erotica on their Kindle, and guys now don’t wast $50 on drinks to hook up with a girl they’re not that attracted too, and instead, can spend 6 hours in Skyrim, and then watch some amateur porn shot as well as anything professional via Onlyfans.
So, if that’s some of the “connectiion” that’s not happening anymore, is that a bad thing?Report