Fall Of The House of Gruden

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has since lived and traveled around the world several times over. Though frequently writing about politics out of a sense of duty and love of country, most of the time he would prefer discussions on history, culture, occasionally nerding on aviation, and his amateur foodie tendencies. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter @four4thefire and his writing website Yonder and Home. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast.

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35 Responses

  1. InMD
    Ignored
    says:

    The racism and gay slurs are inexcusable but in fairness we’ve all said some pretty harsh stuff about Goodell.Report

  2. Michael Cain
    Ignored
    says:

    I used to think that eventually people would figure out that e-mails are like memos in the company files, not like a comment made in the hall where only a couple of people can hear you. These days, I’m inclined to think they’re not ever going to learn.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Michael Cain
      Ignored
      says:

      Concur – If you send an email using a company email address, or to anyone who has a company email address, or to anyone who auto-forwards certain emails to their company email address, one should assume it will be stored until corporate legal is pretty sure no SOLs are violated.

      One of the things my wife does professionally is work with legal to develop the kinds of data storage protocols and policies for a company to implement.

      Still, we should be glad that such people are either consistently ignorant, or arrogant, such that they always leave a paper trail.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Michael Cain
      Ignored
      says:

      I think I’ve finally mastered email.

      Learned when I’d articulate in some detail (and rather colorfully — I am a liberal arts major, after all) a business process that was not performing properly… and Management would forward up-the-chain. Not exactly getting thrown under the bus, more like being thrown on top of the bus… while Mgmt was comfortable *inside* the bus.

      Now my emails read like a cryptogram “about that thing we discussed Weds, have you seen any movement from you know who or are we waiting for the other one to do the analysis of the project first?”

      Oh, and always ended with “Please advise” to suggest that the other person is driving the bus.

      Now Teams? My only response is ‘Who dis, fed’Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to Marchmaine
        Ignored
        says:

        Now Teams? My only response is ‘Who dis, fed’

        LMFAO!Report

      • Michael Cain in reply to Marchmaine
        Ignored
        says:

        I went to work at Bell Labs at the point when e-mail was just coming into common use, and Usenet was beginning to be a thing. We had it hammered into our heads — we were professionals, not careless college students, and should speak accordingly. For the most part, haven’t managed to shake that.Report

      • JS in reply to Marchmaine
        Ignored
        says:

        I had to have a conversation with one of my supervisors that boiled down to “Dude, if you ask ME a question but plan to just forward my response to a client. LET ME KNOW FIRST.”

        Not because my emails are unprofessional or anything, it’s just….if I’m writing a quick explanation for why something isn’t working, or why some feature doesn’t do X or whatever, there’s a lot I don’t include when sending it to a guy who sits in on all the meetings and knows the stuff pretty well.

        Which means he forwards a quick: “X doesn’t work like that. We could add it, but it’s been low priority, due to issues with Y and Z.” to a client who then has ALL THE QUESTIONS and it turns into 10 emails.

        Whereas if he just says “A client wants to know why X doesn’t work the way he wants” I’ll write up a much lengthier email, stripped of jargon and internal context, to explain to the customer what X does and doesn’t do, and the limitations involved. An explanation the client will understand.

        Emails, like any other form of writing, should be considered permanent records and should be tailored to the audience.

        Too many people who should understand both seem to be confused by at least one of those two.Report

  3. Kolohe
    Ignored
    says:

    Gruden is the rare case where the email should have been a meeting.Report

  4. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    That’s right, Raiders *SUCK*. If you wanted to keep your job, you should have beat the Bears.Report

  5. John Puccio
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s too bad for Gruden that he wasn’t arrested for domestic violence or drunk driving 10 years ago instead of writing these emails. Everyone knows that saying bad things is far worse than actually doing them.Report

  6. CJColucci
    Ignored
    says:

    White football coach is, at best, a casual racist and homophobe. Proof emerges, embarrassment ensues, head rolls. Dog bites man. Film at 11:00.Report

    • Douglas Hayden in reply to CJColucci
      Ignored
      says:

      Yeah, this wasn’t as much ‘cancel culture’ as he well and truly lost the locker room.Report

      • JS in reply to Douglas Hayden
        Ignored
        says:

        I love how we’ve shifted “consequences of my actions” to “cancel culture” in general.

        And the loudest whiners about it tend to be the very people screaming about taking responsibility and hating participation trophies, while screaming at their local school board that a teacher is teaching CRT in third grade and should be fired and all the books in her classroom burned.

        Because that’s not cancel culture, amirite?Report

  7. Burt Likko
    Ignored
    says:

    I recall that Andrew and I had a conversation not very long ago about sinning and grace. The main focus was Ken Jennings and whether or not he had sufficiently apologized for his social sins as to become eligible to be accepted as the host, or at least a host, of Jeopardy!. While Andrew leaned towards “no,” and I leaned towards “yes,” it’s fair to say that the whole idea of the relative degree of social sins, acceptability of apologies, and extent of grants of forgiveness are super murky and unclear; no one really knows how this works.

    I wonder if there will ever be grace available for Jon Gruden? If so, how long would it take? What does it look like – does he get invited back into the NFL some day? I tend to think no, he can’t ever come back from something like this. How does he ever step into a locker room with dozens of African-American players and convince them that deep down, they have his respect?

    But who knows. I see some people get grace and some people don’t. Society seems to have never condemned, say, Michael Jackson (either before or after his death). We needn’t get into a debate about whether pedophilia or racism is worse; it’s sufficient to note that both are Very Very Bad. (And there does indeed seem to be condemnation of other famous people with similar sins as MJ: take as an example R. Kelly.) But one gets punished and the other doesn’t.

    I don’t understand this at all. I don’t think anyone really does.Report

  8. Dark Matter
    Ignored
    says:

    You’re making 10+ Million dollars a year and you blow yourself up over this.Report

  9. Pat
    Ignored
    says:

    Every Technology Acceptable Use policy in the country contains language that sending sexually explicit material is grounds for disciplinary action and possible termination, as is any communication that might indicate animus towards a protected class.

    Tangent: everybody defending Gruden is just making a tacit admission about what their Sent mail folder looks like. Gonna make sexual harassment or racially motivated firings much more likely to go to discovery, I would imagine.

    “Well, getting fired because you were black and pregnant is patently illegal, but it can be difficult to prove.”

    “Look at his Twitter history”

    “Heh, okay, yeah this is probably worth going for discovery”Report

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