Armenian Genocide Recognized by President Biden: Read It For Yourself

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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25 Responses

  1. This is a good thing. Period.Report

  2. InMD says:

    I’ve never understood the relevance of the issue to the United States. How to characterize what happened is a matter for historians, not politicians who don’t actually know anything about it. At best it’s a pointless performance that does nothing for anyone, at worst it pokes a strategic, if wayward, ally to no apparent benefit.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to InMD says:

      It helps us maintain our moral authority on a global scale.Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

      The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum tweeted today about the Armenian genocide.

      You might say that that was appropriate, given their charter. Or you might ask whether these should even be a federal holocaust museum, since having opinions on historicity is none of the government’s business.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Mike Schilling says:

        For the record, I think that an official acknowledgment of the atrocity is better than not acknowledging that it happened.

        I’m just not exactly seeing it as accomplishing much.

        I mean, say what you will about China and the Uighurs, that’s happening right freaking now. I can see how it’s appropriate to, at the very least!, say something.

        But this is saying something about a thing that happened more than 100 years ago. The only political costs are… what? Turkey bluster?

        The benefits come from acknowledging that something is the truth. (No small feat in the current year!)

        It is the right thing to do and that’s good… but, on a utilitarian measure, I don’t see what benefits were gained and I can’t help but notice that the costs were somewhere around “diddly squat”.Report

      • InMD in reply to Mike Schilling says:

        I’ve long suspected that museum has more to do with serving as a reminder in a seat of power about who the real victims are in the ME today than who they were in Europe in the 30s and 40s. But hey as far as I know they do legitimate scholarship at the Holocaust Museum. If the government wants to fund good scholarship on this too I’m not going to lose sleep over it.

        Anyway, I assume you’re familiar with the comments Erdogan made in 2019 last time this came up about how rich it was for a country ‘stained by genocide, slavery and exploitation’ to criticize Turkey for historical dirty laundry? My guess is that this will prompt a similar, and frankly fair, response. So again, what was the point exactly?Report

        • Chip Daniels in reply to InMD says:

          If this stirs an American discussion about “genocide, slavery and exploitation” and its relevance for today and draws in a discussion about China and the Uighurs and our response, I think that would be a very good point.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels says:

            I can’t tell if the point is:

            A: This highlights how Americans need to condemn what is happening to the Uighurs right now.
            B: This highlights how Americans don’t have the standing to condemn what is happening to the Uighurs right now.

            Could you clarify for me if you were doing more of an A? Were you doing more of a B?Report

            • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird says:

              A is an assertion, where people state an idea.

              B is what people do when they want to shut down a discussion and enforce a silence on a topic. It is (quite literally in this case ) “But whattabout your Negroes?”

              What is often (deliberately) ignored is that there is C, where we condemn what is happening, BECAUSE of our own painful past and present.
              We can speak with authority on the Uighurs, because Americans and Europeans know all too well what the outcome of ethnic resentment and bigotry leads to.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels says:

                Well, I’m interested in seeing how this evolves.

                “This is completely different from what you did and are still doing!” is how I expect the conversation to continue but… well, we’ll see.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Jaybird says:

                Like:

                I admit to not understanding why Erdogan considers this a threat.Report

              • Pinky in reply to Jaybird says:

                There’s a difference between guilt-based and shame-based societies. The US tends toward the former, Turkey the latter. America at her best will say “yes, our people did those things a long time ago; those acts were against our principles and those who did them should be judged accordingly”. A more middle-eastern way of thinking is “you have dishonored by ancestors as a way of dishonoring me; I will respond in kind”.Report

          • InMD in reply to Chip Daniels says:

            It won’t. I’d be shocked if the Turkish counter-point is reported in any noticeable way in the American press.Report

        • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

          Erdogan admitting there’s something to criticize is a step forward.Report

          • InMD in reply to Mike Schilling says:

            Based on my understanding that’s not accurate. Not an expert on this but I believe they object to classifying the deaths as genocide as opposed to resulting from the chaos of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, not that both can’t be true. That’s a bit different than saying ‘it never happened.’ Which goes back to my original comment that it’s a matter for scholars, not politicians. I’m open to evidence I’m wrong but my guess is that Joe Biden knows about as much about the topic as he does about quantum physics.Report

        • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

          Also, I disagree that that’s what the Holocaust museum is about. There’s a completely fake, wholly anti-Semitic “controversy” about the reality of the Holocaust, and the museum is a declaration on the side of truth. The Holocaust is as well-documented as the Civil War. So is the Armenian Genocide.Report

  3. North says:

    With as much trouble as the Turks have been stirring up for the US it’s not surprised their barrier against this coming about failed. Frankly it’s only ever been realpolitic that kept it from being recognized before and it’s only slightly surprising it took this long for it to happen.Report

  4. Jaybird says:

    I’m wondering if “The Young Turks” will discuss a name change, maybe.Report