Thursday Night Bar Fight #2: When Animals Attack!
Note: Thursday Night Bar Fights is a new FP regular feature. In a nutshell, each Thursday I’ll offer up a topic for folks to chime in and argue about – but each topic will be the kind of pointless query that gets friends passionately arguing after one too many beers. Thursday Night Bar Fight questions will be the kind that require no expertise; anyone insisting they’re arguing from authority on these topics will be full of it. Think: Stupid Tuesday Questions, only stupider, on the Front Page, and without brilliant essays to accompany them. Anyone that has a Bar Fight they’d like to start should feel free to email or tweet me a question for consideration in future weeks.
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This week’s bar fight question comes from fellow Leaguer Conor Williams:
The year is 2015.
It turns out Glenn Beck was right, and Obamacare has instantly led our world into a post-apocolyptic, Thunder-Dome like dystopia. In this nightmare future, it has been decided that the next ruler of America will have to fight in an arena – with an animal of his or her choice acting as proxy. You have been chosen to be a contestant. The rules of this contest are simple: Two animals go in, one goes out, round after round until one animal stands alone.
Question: Which animal do you choose to fight for you, and why? Please explain why your choice will totally kick the ass of whatever lame-o animal other people choose.
Bonus Question: If you were forced to choose your college mascot (or high school mascot, if you did not attend college/your college did not have a mascot), make the case for why you aren’t totally screwed.
Update: It appears I should have said, but a few rules for this competition. You cannot choose “homo sapiens with big-ass weapon.” You may of course choose man (he is the most dangerous game!), but know that he’s be going in the arena with just the clothes on his back.
Answer, disagree and discuss below.
I’ve been working on teaching my cat to do that.
Great photo, again.
Tod for Art Director!Report
If this entire thread ended up being nothing but a celebration of that photo, it still wouldn’t do its greatness justice. Top 5 photo on the internet ever, IMO.Report
P.S. This is a threadjacking. Hand over the keys.
(J/k, TK. ;))Report
First, some questions… are we training the animals? Not all animals are trainable… this would seem to be a huge factor. What if the animals just do what most animals do and sit there and stare at each other?
ANYWAY…
Two answers immediately jumped to mind… then a third… then a fourth… I first thought of a bear or a lion. Both animals can do some real damage and are hard to kill. Then I thought of a snake, because they don’t have many natural predators and can use poison. Then I thought of an elephant, because I’m not sure if there is a any lone animal that could take down something of that size. And when properly motivated, those bitches will fuck you up. Gun to my head…. argh…. I say… ummmm… bear! No! Elephant! Bear riding an elephant? Using a snake as his whip? No. Elephant. Elephant it is. Bears hibernate away like, half the year. I can’t risk the battle happens in February and my chosen animal is snoozing.
As for mascots, my college were the Eagles and my high school was the Highwaymen, which I believe were some sort of wild west band of thieves. The eagle would do well if we were battling in an open air arena, though isn’t ideal because it couldn’t sustain an attack on anything bigger than a medium-sized dog. The highwayman, assuming he got all the advantages of a man (namely, a gun), would dominate. But that feels like cheating.
A related question I have has to do with human frailty. We’ve evolved to become the top species largely because of our brain and the development of tools. But, left to your own devices, bare handed, what is the largest animal I could lock you in a room with and you’d be confident you could kill? What if you were in the wild? I’m not sure I could confidently take down anything larger than a small dog. Anything bigger than that is probably too strong and anything smaller is probably too fast and nimble.
Fun questions!Report
Your high school mascots were Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, Kris Kristofferson and Willie Nelson? Cool!Report
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS?!?!Report
Aren’t you the guy who’s always saying you don’t know much about music? That might lead you to the answer. 😉Report
True. Going to a school with very few white people might have also contributed.Report
VelociraptorReport
I might worry that the while being extinct thing would act as a disadvantage.Report
Seriously, let’s be realistic here.Report
It’s the dystopian future, man! They’ll have figured out how to recombine and clone velocipraptor DNA by 2015. That’s like, two whole YEARS from now.Report
Didn’t they figure it out in 1994?Report
OHBYTHEWAYTHEYARERERELEASINGJURASSICPARKIN3D!!!Report
I still think JP has the most realistic special effects of any movie made to date. Go animatronics! Die computers die! Uncanny valley!Report
Or at least it was until Birdemic: Sock and Terror was released.Report
I think the CGI does look dated, but that is to be expected. At the time it came out, I remember thinking, “How can it get any better?!?!” And I think CGI has gotten better, but the use of animitronics made that movie. The T-Rex attack scene simply doesn’t work without them.Report
*sniff* I like Eva’s special effects (well, the new eva, part 2. part 3? the writer/director got bored, and started playing off star trek).Report
I’ve had this conversation many times. I think it’d have to boil down to ahippo or a giant squid really, depending on the environment the competition was taking place in – I.e. land or water. I realize that, for the sake of fairness you can’t really flop a coin, so I propose the following: either (A) stage the competition at the chemical triple point, with equal presence of all phases of matter; or (B) attach the competitors to bungee-like restraints and swing them at each other repeatedly until only one remains.
Your guess is as good as mine whether the hippo or the giant squid would win this battle, but I do know one thing for certain: if you could somehow find a lobster equivalent in size to the hippo or giant squid, with its giant claws and durable chitin exoskeleton, it would be as unstoppable as Goldberg.Report
How you gonna catch the giant squid?Report
You asking that question proves my point.
Or does it?
To catch the giant squid, I’d use Chuck Norris.
Which actually makes me realize that Chuck Norris vs. a lobster of equal size would be a very one-way competition, resulting in a delicious bisque that Chuck Norris could boil up using just his bare hands.Report
Venue of the arena is really important. Water, land, temperature, etc. King Cobra would be great on land (IMO), unless the arena is somewhere outdoors in Minnesota in January. I can’t decide if holding the contest at triple point is brilliant or insane. Perhaps both. But if so: definitely the giant squid.
My college mascots were a bear and the bulls. Either would put up a decent fight on land, but a bull would be outmatched by any number of decent-sized predators.Report
It wasn’t part of your premise. 🙂
But, if you’re going to pin me down–Salt water croc. (18 Footer min)Report
Also, real velociraptors are much smaller than the ones seen in JP.Report
Kazzy has kind of beaten me to this but I go for a wild Homo Sapiens with a good arsenal. There is nothing they cannot kill.Report
I bet we all wish we went to Greendale Community College at this point…Report
Elephant or Rhino strike me as the living animals most likely to prevail. They are the tanks of the natural world.Report
I’m with North. One of the under-appreciated aspects of this competition is that it’s an endurance match. My animal has to beat everyone else’s (well, in a tournament format, I guess), and that takes more than speed and ferocity. You can’t solo a boss with DPS or heals.
My college mascot is a wolverine. It would put up a good fight, because they’re ferocious and mean as hell, but ultimately it wouldn’t be big enough to beat someone else’s elephant or rhino.Report
My college mascot is a wolverine. It would put up a good fight
Dude, your wolverine got pasted by a frickin’ duck!Report
I was at that game. The relevant animal comparison is sloth vs. ninja made of knives.Report
Hey, I was there, too! The best moment was the fake statue of liberty play. When they ran the real statue of liberty play, everyone around me (including me) was asking “did we really just see that?” Then when they ran the fake one, and everybody was thinking they’d stupidly tried that same ancient trick play again, only to realize it was a dupe….I think that was the precise moment at which hope deflated.
I’m neither here nor there on Michigan, no love, but not really any hate (I mean, they’re not fishing Ohio State, right?). And I don’t mean to rub it in too hard, but I don’t think you have to be a fan of the team that does that to realize you saw one of the most astounding moments in college football. (The Ducks have really toned down the trickery since that year, though.)Report
I actually like Oregon a lot. I’m interested to see if the momentum continues without Chip Kelly.
Michigan went through some rough years. I’m confident things are getting back on track.Report
Yeah, Michigan is back on track (sigh). The RichRod hire was unbelievably stupid, but I’ll be surprised if Hoke doesn’t make them a perennial contender again.
I think Oregon will be fine because their success is built as much on their facilities as on their coaching staff, and they hired a guy who knows the program so there’ll be continuity. Still, they didn’t have a good recruiting year, so we’ll have to wait and see.Report
My animal has to beat everyone else’s (well, in a tournament format, I guess)
Round-robin or single (or double) elimination? Round-robin creates the potential that there’s no Condorcet winner (which I suspect is in fact the real case). An elimination approach would solve that, and I’ll plump for double-elimination because it allows for comebacks, and those always boost the television ratings.Report
If it’s done by brackets it’s all about the matchup, isn’t it?
You think you’re sitting pretty with King Cobra – until the committee sets the brackets and you learn you’ve got Mongoose in the second round.Report
Not to mention the fact that your cobra’s teeth won’t penetrate elephant hide and that it will just stop you flat, like pancake.Report
I’m an Iowa State Cyclone…how the hell is anything gonna compete with a cyclone? And sure, the actual mascot is a red bird named “Cy”, but the university is called the “Cyclones.” You are all fished.Report
I raise you a super volcano, now you’re fished!Report
Now that would be an epic battle…hot meets cold, red meets blue, wet meets whatever magma feels like.Report
Go Clones! I have a friend who’s an alum and die-hard fan.
My alma mater’s mascots were Roadrunners and Ducks. I’ll probably just have to run away.Report
I have to go with a bacteria that causes a virulent form of dysentary.Report
Ahh, the problem is you only get just one.
Otherwise, this would be my choice, too.Report
Hey, the great thing about bacteria is you can show up at the check-in station with just one, and it will make all you need by itself!Report
Yeah, divide, divide, divide and then conquer.Report
space awesomeReport
Wouldn’t work, whoever has the Komodo dragon would just enslave em and use em against future challengers.Report
I was scanning the thread to see if anyone had the Komodo dragon. This was my choice; 10-foot freaking armored lizards that not ONLY have a mouthful of virulent bacteria, it has in recent years been confirmed they also are venomous as well:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090518-komodo-dragon-venom.html
They also can reproduce asexually, via parthogenesis, Jurassic Park – style.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-komodo-d
They may even hunt somewhat cooperatively, and appear to create “blinds” or dead-end trails where they can ambush their prey!
Game over, man. Game over.Report
By the way, do you think hunter-gatherers sat around the fire drinking mead and having this exact conversation 100,000 years ago?Report
I’m going to choose Pando the tree. It’s a grove of aspens in Utah; but it’s genetically identical and shares a root system, so it should fit under the contest rules as a single organism. I’m betting there’s no animal that could destroy 106 acres of trees before dying of malnutrition or perhaps old age. An endurance win is still a win.Report
Unless we allow fire breathing dragons.Report
This is the only one so far I feel has any shot against my Rhino or Elephant. Unless I can dope my Elephant up with some pot, then he’ll get severe munchies and eat the whole thing. Would that count as illegal doping or is it only illegal if donkeys do it?Report
Let’s start the bar fight! Rhinos have poor vision. And can only run in short bursts! YOUR ANSWER SUCKS!Report
I was also going to say hippo for animal of choice.
My school mascot? The Devil. Unless your mascot was God, I think you are pretty screwed.Report
Careful, there are some religious schools with saints out there. God works through proxies, remember.Report
I’d go with my state mascot, the Wolverine.
Sheer meanness – send in your enraged elephant, that’ll just get the wolverine fatter 🙂
Second choice – honey badger – it doesn’t give a sh*t, and eats poison snakes for fun, after taking a short nap to recover from lethal poison.Report
Yeah, wolverines are -mean-. but Weasels? They’re just motherfishing crazy.
Ain’t worth fightin ’em.Report
Weasels would just somehow get out of fighting at all.Report
So far the Elephants have it. I guess there are more republicans on this site than I thought.
I would say wild homo sapiens all the way, but are we then denying them the right to their person hood?
If it was in water I would say killer whale, because they rock! On land I have to go with the badger and a little mouse buddy to scare the elephant away. For an air battle I would go with a golden eagle. My high school mascot the orioles I don’t think would win many fights.Report
I want a platoon of ninja-trained hench-cats. Hi-yaaaaa! Slice yez up like so much block cheese.Report
Nah, all I have to do is throw out a ball of yarn and open up some stinky food cans and they are hairballs in my hands.Report
My college mascot is actually a “homo sapiens with big-ass weapon.” though we’re talking medieval knight here.
I’ll go with Honey Badger because he doesn’t give a fuck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
Or the Brazilian Wandering Spider or the Box Jellyfish because poisonous.Report
My college mascot is a Gaucho. Without bolos or a lasso or firearms the gaucho may still be a pretty tough hombre but he’s gonna have a hard time against Kazzy’s pissed-off elephant.
My high school mascot is the Spirit (thanks, archdioscese of Los Angeles!). This may be the way to go for the dystopian gladiatorial future awaiting us all. As a non-corporeal entity it’s invulnerable to attack. While it may not be able to do any damage itself, it’s also ageless. So Kazzy’s pissed-off elephant will die of old age eventually and my Spirit will triumph.Report
As a non-corporeal entity it’s invulnerable to attack.
But I heard that God is dead. It was all over the media about 40 years ago, so it must be true.Report
God died nailed to a post 2,000 years ago. Didn’t slow Him down a bit. So that doesn’t bother me a bit.
I’ve got two choices here. I know the Argentinian cowboy is getting trampled or gored eventually. Going with the indestructible Spirit means I have a fighting chance.Report
Waiting for one’s enemy to die of old age strikes me as pacifism.Report
My university is the Ravens. In a one-on-one, we’re kind of screwed, except against Just Me’s Orioles. However, get more than one and it’s a [spooky voice] murder, A Murder! [/spooky voice].Report
Fisher; small, agile, able to climb well. The only animal that hunts porcupines. The natural disposition is don’t fuck with me, I’ll cut you.
For the mascot, Cougar. Cougar’s perfectly capable of hunting fisher, but why bother? That nasty disposition takes all the fun out it.Report
Below, ring-master Tod says a hive-mind is a legal choice.
So I’m switching from fisher to fire ants.
You will die a painful death.Report
Animal: Grizzly Bear and I would put her cub behind the opponent animal. Nuff said.
College Mascot: We are the Vassar College Brewers. As in people who make beer, I think this will easily make me the most popular person and become president without fighting.
High School Mascot: Rebels (as in American Revolutionary Rebel*). I will just lead the uprising that restores Constitutional Government and ushers in a new golden era of Democracy and Prosperity.
*IIRC it used to be a Southern Rebel but my high school switched quickly after founding (my HS did not open until the 1950s or 60s) because the student body and faculty found it unconscionable. MLK came to speak at my high school sometime in the mid or lateish 1960s.Report
Vassar Brewers? I hereby declare immunity for New Dealer from all fights, providing he actually follows through and brings the beer. (Unless Milwaukee baseball fans get there the firstest with the mostest, in which case ND’s brewer has to go up against Burt Likko’s spirit.)Report
Matthew Vassar made his fortune as a brewer and that was the seed money for the college.
Rumor has it that the halls in the first building were made wide so they could be used for keg storage and rolling in case the college failed.Report
High school Mascot the Vikings got a sword and shield and nifty pointy helmet, secret super power the ability to berserk
College The Buffalo Ralphie can run 40 mph and she will top out in weight around 1100 pounds so given enough space to run and only one opponent may do well
Graduate school the Bobcats smaller but fast and mean so…improvement on original mascot the Violet which pretty much will just get trampled or eatenReport
I have to mention the classic SF story Arena by Frederic Brown, in which one man has to fight one alien to settle The Fate of the Universe. Read it.
(If it seems familiar, that’s because it was adapted into an episode of the original Star Trek.)Report
Ah, the Roller and the blue six legged lizzard. Loved it.Report
High School Mascot (I shit you not): The Bells.
Yes, I still think it’s lame. I cannot believe that there are alumni who don’t think it’s lame, and that they outnumber me.
College mascot: The Lions, and now the (Ped)ant. Given a choice between the two a colony of war ants is a pretty good option, but we’re stuck with one.
My own choice, in the dark, would be an elephant because, yeah, elephant… but given that you know a bunch of people are going to pick elephant, you’re going up against a bunch of elephants in the tourney, and you have to assume that not all of the various arenas are going to be a good match for elephants. I mean, a 500 x 500 open space, elephants are going to rule, but in a 20 x 20 box with pit traps, all you have to do is hang around for a little while and the environment will do you work for you. I’m figuring we’re talking about The Hunger Games sort of deal, here, right?
So instead I’ll pick something and fast and agile, that can climb on multiple surfaces and jump really far. Win by environmental attrition. Have to have some offensive capabilities, so I’ll go with a cougar.Report
The Bells
But that would surely defeat a Hokie.Report
College mascot: The Lions, and now the (Ped)ant. Given a choice between the two a colony of war ants is a pretty good option, but we’re stuck with one.
this brings up an crucial question: do hive animals count as one or many? Ants, bees, termites — the many function as the one.Report
I say a hive mind is a legal choice.Report
I’m going with a rhino, methinks.Report
This is a better choice than Grizzly bearReport
College Mascot: The Quakers, so . . . . . . . yeah, I’m screwed.
We were the Fighting Quakers (kinda funny), then the Hustling Quakers (incredibly lame), and now just Quakers (how was that so hard?). Either way, probably not winning a cage match.
For an animal I would have to choose the king cobra. I actually just looked this up (kind of a slow day today), but they have been known to kill elephants by biting them on the tip of the trunk or on the foot, between toenail and skin.Report
Well at least you went to a good school if I am remembering correctly.Report
“And this Quaker team is really feeling their oats!”Report
High school mascot: armed homo sapiens – specifically an archer (motto: “Sagittarius in Fronte”, which I would have thought made pretty bad military tactics, but what do I know). Particularly depending on available terrain, a human with a ranged weapon could do quite well. Climb the side of the thunder dome and rain down arrows on the unfortunate opponent; you don’t need to drop it on the first shot as long as it can’t climb after you.
University mascot: husky. Sled dogs can get mean and all, but it’s still polar bears mauling them, not the reverse
I think Dan Miller’s picked the winner with Pando the Tree – not only has it proven its ability to outlast individual megafauna opponents, it’s outlasted entire megafauna species.Report
The problem with Pando might be that, as a kind of aspen, it’s not technically an animal. It would likely be disqualified.Report
Bluewhale.
If it’s an endurance match and assuming the arena gets water, thing without natural predator wins.Report
All the other good animals seem to have been taken so I’ll go with skunk. Yeah, not too ferocious but really, who wants to mess with one?Report
That’s pretty good, Ward.Report
Tsetse fly. When you’re all dyin’ from sleeping sickness, it won’t matter who previously thought they were the leader.Report
Can they survive underwater?Report
High school mascot: mustangs, good kick but I wouldn’t bet on it.
College mascot: older southern gentleman with military experience.
Age and lack of weapons really hurts. Even with good evasion I doubt he could hold out due too lack of alcohol and tobacco in the arena.
So my choice is platypus due to its mammalian ability to control its temperature, ability to swim, venomous spur, ability to survive australia and sheer weirdness.Report
Reading Wikipedia I learned that they can sense other animals electrical emissions…
Team platypi still had room…join today or you might regret it.Report
Well, if it’s platypus vs. zebra danio, I’m sure their electroreceptors will come in handy.Report
Oh, I forgot to mention that my high school mascot was the Rebels, which means that in our fight we’re going to lose, but we’re going to spend a century and a half or more whining about it, so eventually maybe you’ll just get sick of us and give up.Report
…it’s a trap.Report
I have given this question a boatload of thought. Too much, in fact.
Under the rules of the contest, the fights are all one-on-one, in a single-elimination tourney. Presumably the arena is a decent size, at least the size of a hockey rink. That means that you need something nimble and quick (not merely fast). An elephant won’t do – it’d be too easy to play a cat and mouse game. You also need something that’s fairly versatile, something that will have at least a chance against everything, even if it might occasionally be an underdog.
I think in the end, you’ve got to go with either one of the big cats or some sort of vicious baboon. Scratch that, I’m going with the baboon. Check this out http://www.blessedquietness.com/yarn/baboons.htm:
So…yeah.
On the mascot front, my college keeps changing it, even as it’s always had more or less the same name (Raiders or Red Raiders). It started out as an American Indian, then was a fishing torch (no, seriously….a torch!), and now it’s some sort of pirate-looking dude, but not a very tough looking pirate, more a children’s cartoon type of pirate. We’re not getting very far with that sucker. But my high school mascot was a pioneer with a coonskin hat, rifle, and buckskins. He’d have a pretty good shot at this.
Especially since, when I was there, he memorably wandered over towards the visitor’s sideline of the football field and promptly beat the living hell out of the opposing school’s mascot (an anthropomorphic Panther) in full view of the entire crowd and both teams.Report
A primate is an interesting choice, though it leaves the door open for them going all “Planet of the Apes” on us.Report
Hey, I thought one of the rules was “no weapons.” If your Pioneer gets his rifle, then I’m going back to the Gaucho, because armed with bolos, lassos, and firearms, the Gaucho gets elevated from tough hombre to somewhere between “badass” and “action star.”Report
With or without weapons, my Pioneer still actually beat the hell out of a Panther with his bare hands.Report
Yawn. Okay. Trained assassin, wearing a garotte as a necktie. Add in other traditional accouterments that serve as clothing (poisoned hairpins, among others).
Just the clothes on his back, ya?Report
Did anyone mention Cthulhu yet? I pick him.Report
I swung by his house on R’lyeh and rang the bell like twenty times and no answer, so I think he’s either dead, dreaming, or drunk.Report
Actually will you accept the ebola virus as an animal?Report
There are too many variables really. What size is the arena? Too small and the larger animals are at a disadvantage. Too large and the smaller animals may be at a disadvantage.
What is the environment? Is it hot, cold or temperate? Day or night or both? Land (if so, what kind) or water (salt, fresh, brackish)? Hills or mountains? Groves or jungles? Is the surface diggable?
I might go with a tarantula — dig pits to trap the larger animals and bite, bite, bite everything.
High school mascot was a tiger. This would beat a fair number of critters but not my first choice. College was the mustangs. Yuck.Report
I can’t believe this made it to sunday and no one has chosen the ManBearPig. seeing as how the only thing that can kill the MBP is Al Gore and he will surely be killed by a mob seeking his solar cells for power the MBP will rule the thunder dome.
HS mascot was a Trojan. he looked more like a roman centurion. never got tired of having opposing football teams call us condoms.Report