I apologize to interrupt the politics but this is important. And Open Thread.

41 thoughts on “I apologize to interrupt the politics but this is important. And Open Thread.”

1. Wait, so Steam doesn’t give it to you fully patched?
   That’s crazy, a huge selling point for Steam is that they keep your game up to date automagically.Report

   1. Steam gives it to you fully patched with the *OFFICIAL* patches. That brings you to version 1.2.

      The Fan Patches bring you up to 7.8.

      It should be noted that the company disbanded (or went bankrupt or something) and the people who made the game went on to keep patching it and unlocking and finding certain things. So the “official” patches could not keep being made after the company went away… even though the “fan” patches are made by the folks who worked for the company.

      You’ll have to turn automatic updates off for this game and just patch it yourself. (It’s worth it!)Report

2. This is truly one of the great games of the last decade and Jaybird is dead on about the patches. Fan patches extracted tons of content, opened some quests, stabilized the crashing, etc… So buy it and patch the crap out of it and then enjoy.Report

3. So, I’m kinda a white-wolf hater. Will I still enjoy it?Report

   1. It kind of depends on why you hate WW.

      The game is HEAVILY steeped in the VtM lore and includes all of the major players and antagonists from the paper/pencil game. As far as RPG’s go it’s a little linear, but it does provide multiple ways to accomplish your ends depending on what kind of character you want to build.

      For $5…. it’s almost worth trying even if you hate it after an hour. I mean.. that’s less than a Starbucks coffee.Report

4. That’s good enough for me to buy it. Who knows when I’ll get round to playing it, but oh well.Report

5. That game’s only remotely worth it if you get all the “unofficial” patches to repair the missing quests, borked shit, and stuff that made the game unplayable in the original troika iteration. The old Activision patches barely patched anything at all.

   Steam won’t allow 3rd party patches, so you’re shit outta luck on it. Their version is a fucking ripoff.Report

   1. I’ve not had the chance to install yet, but the unofficial patches do apparently work with the Steam version, there are directions in the V:tMB forums at Steam:
      http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=229Report

   2. I was able to make the unofficial patches work with the game I downloaded from steam. You just have to tell steam to stop updating your game to version 1.2.Report

      1. I installed and patched extremely easily (turns out the game IS old enough to run on my laptop), do not let the bugginess discussion dissuade you.Report

6. This is the best computer RPG that I have ever played

   I’m so sorry to hear that you have never played any of these games, Jaybird, each of which is much better than Vampire:Bloodlines:

   Wizardry
   Ultima
   Final Fantasy
   Elder Scrolls
   Fallout
   Deus Ex
   WOW
   Dragon Warrior
   KOTOR
   Chrono Trigger
   Legend of Zelda
   Baldur’s Gate
   Kingdom Hearts
   Secret of Mana
   Breath of Fire
   Star Ocean
   Dragon Quest
   Starflight
   Legend of Dragoon
   Super Mario RPG
   Xenogears
   Pokemon
   Diablo
   Might and Magic
   or any of the old Goldbox AD&D seriesReport

   1. I will be back shortly to discuss these.Report

   2. Wizardry and Ultima are both games whose reach exceeded their grasp. Ultima didn’t become awesome until IV. Wizardry was a great inspiration but not a great game in itself.

      Final Fantasy is the quintessential JRPG. VII is the quintessential Final Fantasy (why didn’t they use a pheonix down???). The gameplay is front and center rather than the story (seriously, the story gets a little… weird and that’s not even talking about X or XIV).

      Elder Scrolls has the most amazing character creation and an absolutely jawdropping next 3 or 4 hours. After that, it’s bigger and badder versions of those next 3 or 4 hours. Oblivion fixed some (but not all) issues with how the game progressed (the levelling system was bullcrap though) and I hope that Skyrim incorporates much of what they learned from…

      Fallout is an absolutely amazing RPG. You are right. This one deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Bloodlines. Fallout 2 kinda sucked, though. 3 caught the environment of 1 but it wasn’t until New Vegas that they finally made a game as good as Fallout. Good point on this one.

      I’ll be back later. (Maribou and I are going to Denver today)Report

      1. TN: it’s not “phoenix down” in japanese. it’s “angel’s feather”. but they couldn’t put “angel” in an American video game. I think phoenix down works better, though.Report

      2. Did you ever write that PS:T recommendation post? Because saying there is a better cRPG than PS:T is mighty big talk.Report

         1. kotor is better than bloodlines? pshaw. both are semi-finished, but the first 3/4ths of bloodlines is pretty dang hard to touch.Report

         2. I have yet to write my Planescape Torment post. That’s another one that is up there with Fallout.

            Here’s the thing: Bloodlines is a First Person Fallout/Planescape. The things that make both of those games worth playing over and over again are in Bloodlines. (The patched version, anyway)Report

            1. Oh, it’s first-person? That’s disappointing.Report

               1. Not necessarily. *I* play it as First Person but there’s an option to play it as a “five feet behind the player” game (a la Tomb Raider).

                  Conversations remain first person, however.Report

                  1. OK, that’s fine then.Report

      3. Fair points, all. Just didn’t think Bloodlines qualifies as “BEST RPG EVAH!” One of the better RPGS? Sure. YMMV.

         Forgot many, though.

         Rogue
         Darklands
         Betrayal at Krondor
         Dungeon Hack (a great roguelike)
         Shadow of Yserbius
         Lands of Lore
         Albion
         System Shock (cheating a little, its FPS/RPG, but I always thought of it as an RPG)
         The Sims (yeah, it’s hard to categorize, but it might qualify as RPG-like)
         Castlevania: SOTN (one of my favs, great music and atmosphere)
         Suikoden
         Grandia (especially the second one)
         Neverwinter Nights
         Island of Kesmai (anyone besides me remember this one?)
         Fairytale Adventure
         Sentinel Worlds
         Planescape: Torment
         Realms of Arkania
         Gothic
         Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
         …

         I’ll stop there, or I’ll be here all night. Take your time, Jaybird. I’ll respond after you have a chance to respond to (or ignore) my list.Report

         1. We’re back but Maribou was on the computer and I started playing New Vegas and I may have a glass or two of wine in me. As such, I will have to put this off until tomorrow.Report

            1. In the short term, however, I want to say that neither KOTOR nor Fallout nor Planescape resulted in me calling friends up and saying “we need to start playing a game on Friday or Saturday nights” and getting them over to the house to tell stories and/or throw dice.

               Bloodlines *DID* that.Report

               1. The main problem I have (had?) with Bloodlines was that it was so buggy and crashed so many times, initially, that it was nigh unplayable. This colors my perception of all games, including Bloodlines.

                  Full disclosure: I made my first computer RPG in 1980, and worked in the industry from 1992-1999 (before corporations began to destroy the industry, IMHO). I still make games as a sideline business (both computer and board/paper). Don’t make much (any?) money at it, but I can’t stop.Report

                  1. You should pimp your website.

                     As for Bloodlines, somewhere between patch 1.2 and patch 7.8 (released LAST WEEK!!!), they fixed many of the problems you mention.Report

                  2. I may have to try it again with the newer patches, if they fix many of the problems, as you say.

                     I keep business and pleasure (or politics and gaming) separate, but thanks for the suggestion to pimp my games. Currently working on mobile. May pimp if I get some success.

                     Fair warning: I could talk about RPG games for several weeks.

                     Sorry to hear that your cat destroyed your work.Report

                  3. Oh, and one more I have to add to the list:

                     Sid Meier’s PiratesReport

                  4. Addressing these will be my Monday Essay.Report

                  5. Today got away from me.

                     EVENTUALLY.

                     Throw this in my face if I don’t address it.Report

                  6. Another one, to complete the circle:

                     WC PrivateerReport

                  7. He usually destroys essays. Destroying comments is something new.Report

   3. In the process of writing a comment in response to the rest of this and halfway through the cat erased it.

      I will come back later.Report

   4. No love for the original Bard’s Tale series? Those were *huge* for me.Report

7. OK, I bought it. It better be frickin awesome. (I LARPed the Masquerade back in the day, btw.)Report

   1. Dude. It *IS* frickin’ awesome.

      If you need help patching, lemme know. My email is all over Mindless Diversions. (If I’m not in pocket tonight, it’s because I’m at gaming night.)Report

   2. Swank, I had friends that ran a massive seven year campaign of The Masquerade that ended a year or two ago. I could never get into LARPing myself.Report

      1. My brother and his best friend ran the game. About 50 people played it on and off, with a core of about 20 folks. One of the players owned an old-fashioned movie theater in our tiny town and let us have total control of it for playing. Hiding behind velvet curtains plotting against Brujah; suddenly faced with an 8th-gen Nosferatu in the balcony. I once had to impersonate Nicole Kidman to get some mages off my trail, because they kept dropping engine blocks on my head otherwise (I guess they could materialize metal or something? Never did understand that…). GOD it was awesome!

         Made the local paper eventually. Ah, the memories will last my whole life. (Thanks bro, if you’re reading this!)Report

8. I prefer mobygames for reviews and ratings, but since you used Metacritic in your post, here are the ratings I could find for the games I listed.

   Not an appeal to authority, but at least it gives us a point for comparison. Highest rating listed for franchise games, though not all games in a franchise were on Metacritic. Couldn’t find ratings for most of the older games.

   85 – Wizardry 8
   74 – Ultima: Age of Shadows
   94 – Final Fantasy IX
   94 – Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
   93 – Fallout 3
   90 – Deus Ex
   90 – WOW
   78 – Dragon Warrior VII
   94 – KOTOR
   92 – Chrono Trigger
   99 – Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
   95 – Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
   87 – Kingdom Hearts II
   80 – Secret of Mana
   83 – Breath of Fire IV
   80 – Star Ocean (Till the End of Time and Second Story)
   89 – Dragon Quest VIII: Journey to the Cursed King
   ?? – Starflight
   74 – Legend of Dragoon
   ?? – Super Mario RPG
   84 – Xenogears
   87 – Pokemon (White, Black, SoulSilver, HeartGold)
   94 – Diablo
   ?? – Might and Magic
   ?? – Goldbox AD&D series
   ?? – Rogue
   ?? – Darklands
   ?? – Betrayal at Krondor
   ?? – Dungeon Hack
   ?? – Shadow of Yserbius
   ?? – Lands of Lore
   ?? – Albion
   92 – System Shock 2
   92 – The Sims
   93 – Castlevania: SOTN
   86 – Suikoden III
   90 – Grandia II
   91 – Neverwinter Nights
   ?? – Island of Kesmai
   ?? – Fairytale Adventure
   ?? – Sentinel Worlds
   91 – Planescape: Torment
   ?? – Realms of Arkania
   81 – Gothic
   91 – Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
   88 – Sid Meier’s Pirates
   ?? – WC PrivateerReport

   1. Also, I finally read your review and noticed that you went from saying this in your review:

      Easily the best computer adaptation of a tabletop role playing game that I’ve ever experienced.

      to saying this in the above post:

      This is the best computer RPG that I have ever played…

      That seems quite a leap. To me, anyway.

      I think what you say in your review is more accurate (though, one could argue that the early AD&D games might be better).

      And, how could I have forgotten Shadowrun?!

      Speaking of which:

      Uplink: Hacker EliteReport

      1. Okay. I’ve got all of these in a text file now.

         I will address these at some point. Oh yes.Report

      2. Okay. There.

         That’s my first attempt to begin to address what you’ve said. It’s more to provide the basis for my tastes being what they are (I prefer protagonist (plus henchman?) narratives to tactical combat).

         But each of those deserve to be mentioned in a post.Report

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