The Joy Of Opening Time Capsules: The 2024 Presidential Election
We had one of these back in January where we discussed whether or not Trump would be on the November ballot.
We had one of these back in July where we discussed whether or not Biden would be on the November ballot.
Here’s the big thing: The ballots are finally hammered down. It’s Harris/Walz vs. Trump/Vance.
We have a Senate election with *9* retirements including Arizona’s Sinema and West Virginia’s Manchin. For Republicans, Indiana and Utah have Braun and Romney retiring. Democrats have Butler retiring in California (Feinstein’s old seat), Carper in Delaware, Cardin in Maryland, Stabenow in Michigan, and Helmy in New Jersey.
The House currently has 220 Republicans and 212 Democrats (1 Republican resigned recently, 2 Democrats passed away).
So there’s a lot of stuff in the air.
The first big question is: Will there be any more assassination attempts? Wait. Am I allowed to ask that? It’s not like we’re betting money on it. Maybe I shouldn’t ask that.
Okay, so what’s the 270 to win map look like for the election? Here you go: Draw your own map (I’ve taken the liberty of using “same since 2000” as a starting point).
Any surprises on your map? (Where a “surprise” is defined as “different from the 2024 Consensus map.)
As for the senate, there are 34 seats up for election this year. 33 of them are for “Class 1” and 1 of them is from “Class 2”. Of these, 20 Democrats are up for re-election, 10 Republicans, and *FOUR* independents (each of which caucused with the Dems).
So, right away, it’s 24 Dem seats versus 10 Republicans. Just flipping a coin gives the Republicans somewhere around 7 seats. But, of course, it’s stuff like California and Delaware in the election. That ain’t a coin flip. We’ve got (deep breath): Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska (twice, one of them is the special election), Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
See? How many of those are coin flips?
So the question about that is “How does the Senate makeup change?” How many seats are picked up/lost? We’re 50/50 today… what will the balance be come 2025?
The house is 220 to 212. What will it be come 2025?
Lay down your marker! (Remember, you can’t make fun of anybody else’s predictions until you lay down your own.)
And, for historical reasons, here’s some links to past predictions:
In 2011, we made predictions about 2012 and then, in 2012, enjoyed reading those predictions.
Back in 2015, we made predictions about the coming nominations and then, in 2016, had a real hootenanny looking back again.
In 2018, we made predictions about what would happen in the mid-terms.
And, yes, in 2019, we made predictions about who the Democratic nominees would be.
In 2020, we made predictions about the presidential election.
And, in 2022, we made predictions about the off-year election.
I’ll start us off!
Harris/Walz win with the blue wall: MI, PA and WI. I’m not confident about the new purple AZ or GA to be able to even to predict anything but red for them. https://www.270towin.com/maps/KmypG
I’d say the big surprises are that there aren’t any big surprises.
Dems take the House but the GOP seems very likely to take the Senate 50-49. Tester needs a miracle to win and we don’t have a replacement pickup for his seat.
No further assassination attempts- the SS has been tightening up and the two moronic loons who made the attempts didn’t get the kind of media attention or adulation that might encourage more moronic loons to try.Report
Interesting!
My thoughts are still percolating (though I stand by both of my “Let’s Face It” posts).
If I were going to make a bet about The Blue Wall, it’d be that two of the three states would go one way and the third would go the other. I don’t know which two and I don’t know which way. But we’re going to have two one color and the third will be the other.Report
Well right now, polling wise, it looks like PA would be the most likely to flip red which also makes intuitive sense since Wallz is popular in MN and a lot of people in WI commute into MN to work so that support may well bleed over. I still think the blue wall states will hold though.Report
Yeah, maybe. I think I had PA and WI red and MI blue, in my head. But I failed to take into account commuters.
So here. I think I think that Trump wins due to PA and NV flipping. BUT DANG IT IS CLOSE.
Republicans pick up 2 in the senate, pick up 8 in the House.
https://www.270towin.com/maps/jPvkEReport
Thanks, I hate it! Also, it’s basically next door to my own prediction, just one tick to the right.Report
There’s this weird undercurrent of “we don’t know anything”.
Even as we look at the polls, we don’t know anything.
Even as we look at North Carolina, we don’t know anything about North Carolina.Report
Yes, polling has just been thumped around the last couple electoral cycles- it gets close in hindsight but is always close enough that the margin of error of the aggregate predicts either outcome without hindsight.
So, the polls say, to the educated reader, “it could go either way” and the educated reader says “we already knew that!”
The question is, is it 2020, in which case Harris is in trouble, or is it 2022 in which case Trump unambiguously fished. Or is 2024 new?Report
Biden was able to resonate with a lot of undecideds. He was affable and goofy and funny. Does Harris resonate with those same people?
I don’t know. I mean, my inclination is to say “probably not” because of a couple of things but we’re also seeing very favorable coverage and maybe that’ll be enough to make up the gap between what was organic about Biden and what Harris wasn’t able to capture during the primary back in 2020.
All this data and no information.Report
Biden resonated more with certain groups of people that Harris doesn’t- no denying it. Harris, however, also resonates more with other groups of people than Biden did/does and that can’t be denied either. The question is if the boost is the same or more and if the respective supporters are geographically located in an electorally efficient manner which we do not know.
But, that being said, I think it’s a moot question because the Biden we have now isn’t the Biden we elected in 2020, he’s clearly slower and there were so many concerns about his age that he had to drop out. I’m dubious we’d be in a better place if he’d stayed in.Report
I’m not arguing for Biden. I thought that Biden would lose back then and I still think that he’d lose if he were running today. In a choice between “Biden and What’s In The Box”, Biden is guaranteed to lose and WITB is not.
Harris is WITB. I still think it should have been Pritzker but…
Anyway.
If she resonates with women better than Clinton did (I mean, the other Clinton), she should do okay.
But we still have a fairly sexist society.Report
Abortion is the question that should have the right up at night. Not just because of women (though they’re a big deal) but also due to barstool conservatives who worry that Dobbs will impact their all important ability to get laid. The Dems have been overperforming since Dobbs and, guess what, this is a post Dobbs election.Report
Doubt it moves any votes in the ‘barstool right’ … those folks are fine with Trumps signalling on being pro-choice.Report
That’s kind of my expectation as well; the electoral map will be “Obama 2012” and the popular vote will be 53-46 with a higher turnout than the past two years. Less some new mandate for a future and more A Return To Normalcy.Report
I’m good for a Return to Normalcy personally. It’d be fascinating to watch when the GOP/right does if Trump loses. They obviously wouldn’t “want” to go Trump again but how the getting there happens would be very interesting to see.Report
I think if he loses chances are high he does at least some prison time, maybe remains a cause celebré in the alt/hard online right, but is quickly memory holed anywhere that butts up against the mainstream.
I can already read the quizzicle piece at WSJ or wherever that treats the everything Trump as if it was somehow a creation of the left wing media.
If he loses.Report
If he loses but even in prison he’d be one heck of an 800 lb gorilla in the room for the right.Report
Harris is up +2 in North Carolina and Josh Stein is up a whopping +13.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/north-carolina/
If this continues, it is not a good trend for Republicans.Report
from your lips to God(ess?)’s ear Saul me lad. what is your prediction?Report
I think Harris probably wins and it is probably pretty apparent on Nov 5. I can still have moments of anxiety of Trump getting a 2016 victory again. Democrats probably retake the House and do fairly well in the Senate. Tester is a almost likely a goner. Brown and Baldwin get reelected. Hogan is not a contender. Slotkin wins. There is a plausible but outside chance Allread wins. A less likely but not completely implausible chance Scott gets taken down.Report
So you’re predicting we keep the Senate? Bold!Report
Well, we have a fighting chance to do so. Osborne also has a fighting chance to win Nebraska’s Senate seat and it looks like NE-2 is going to switch R to D. NE-2 is probably a Harris pickupReport
I like it, but it’s still bold.Report
I wrote this yesterday but I think the polls are over weighing Republicans and we have already entered the Republican partisan “polling” outfits flooding the zone with S##T stage.
The most recent polling from Pennsylvania already comes from three Republican Partisan outfits. One of which is run by two college students. Patriot Polling and the Trafalgar Group were part of the outfits that predicted 2022 very poorly.
Atlas Intel is run by a right-libertarian think tank called The Atlas Network. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/pennsylvania/Report
You can see the same flooding of the zone with s*@t in Michigan at both the President and Senate level. Senate polls have had Slotkin, the Democratic candidate consistently up by +4 to +6. Trafalgar group declared the race EVEN. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/senate/2024/michigan/
Another poll taking by Mitchel Research at the same time had Slotkin up by 5. Mitchell Research was started by a Reagan-Bush guy and also has a partisan lean but not as obvious as Trafalgar or Patriot Polling and they try to be a bit more accurate. Trafalgar could be correct theoretically but it looks more like an outlier and outliers require extraordinary evidence.
So we might be at a point where individual polls are more reliable than the aggregates.Report
All this begs a foundational question: Does skewing the polling/media reporting on the polling have an effect? Even more importantly: what is that effect? Presumably the theory is that making it look like one side is winning emboldens that sides supporters and dispirits the opposing sides supporters but it could just as easily keep the “losing” sides supporters energized and motivated while encouraging complacency for the “winning” sides supporters.
OTOH there is literature IIRC that a non-marginal number of low info voters bandwagon onto the side they perceive as winning at the last second.Report
Silver was explicit today that those polls are excluded for not meeting quality standards.
538 playing the Sam Wang role this year is delicious irony.Report
Polymarket has the highest odds on Trump in a while.
https://polymarket.com/elections
If you’ve got an extra $100 lying around, put it on Harris.
They’re giving away dollars for 46 cents.Report
Harris takes the “Blue Wall” states and at least one of NV, AZ or NC. Maybe 2 of those 3. Wins popular vote easily of course. R’s take senate, D’s take house. Nothing really surprising
Big questions are:
What does trump try to sell after his loss?
Where will his riot/coup attempt be this time?Report
Harry Enten believes that Harris has a +18 lead among white college grads. Clinton was +5 in 2016, Biden was +9 in 2020:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4f9a71f76923dcbee702992ea2d06494ec1d10ed10eb8e60642cfc059cfa97bf.pngReport
Basically, more and more educated people can’t bring themselves to vote for the Republicans.Report
But do enough of them live in the swing states or will they just pad out margins in safe blue ones?Report
In the online survey of a representative national sample of likely voters in the United States, 52% of decided voters would support the current vice president or have already voted for her, while 47% would back the former president.
“Harris holds a 15-point lead over Trump among female decided voters (57% to 42%),” says Mario Canseco, President of Research Co. “Trump is ahead of Harris among male voters (52% to 47%).”
On a regional basis, Harris holds sizeable leads over Trump in the West (58% to 40%) and the Northeast (55% to 43%). Trump is first in the South (51% to 48%) while the two candidates are virtually tied in the Midwest (Harris 50%, Trump 49%).
Only 5% of decided voters say they could change their mind and support a different candidate in the presidential election. The proportion of undecided likely voters with four weeks to go in the campaign is 4%.
More than half of white decided voters (54%) would cast a ballot for Trump or have already done so. Harris leads among decided voters who are African American (71%) or Hispanic / Latino (61%).
Harris is the top choice for American decided voters who get their news from MSNBC / CNBC (81%), CNN (67%) or a local network (53%), while Trump is ahead among those who watch Fox News (68%).
Harris holds a five-point lead over Trump among decided voters who have a cat in their household (52% to 47%). The race is closer among decided voters who have a dog at home (Harris 50%, Trump 49%).
Decided voters in the United States cite the presidential candidate’s ideas and policies (43%) as the main reason behind their choice, followed by the candidate’s political party (24%), desire for stability (14%), desire for change (also 14%) and disgust with other candidates (8%).
These findings are very similar among decided voters who are backing either Harris or Trump, with one exception. While 10% of Harris voters say their main motivator is “disgust with other candidates”, the proportion is lower (5%) among Trump voters.
American likely voters were asked which of the two main presidential candidates is best suited to deal with 13 different issues.
Harris holds the upper hand over Trump on five issues: health care (52% to 36%), education (52% to 36%), the environment (52% to 35%), race relations (50% to 35%) and government accountability (47% to 41%). Trump leads Harris on two issues: immigration (50% to 39%) and national defence (48% to 41%).
https://researchco.ca/2024/10/07/us-nationwide-oct2024/
Don’t take anything for granted but this does not seem like good news for TrumpReport