The Joy Of Opening Time Capsules: The 2024 Presidential Election

Jaybird

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32 Responses

  1. North
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ll start us off!

    Harris/Walz win with the blue wall: MI, PA and WI. I’m not confident about the new purple AZ or GA to be able to even to predict anything but red for them. https://www.270towin.com/maps/KmypG

    I’d say the big surprises are that there aren’t any big surprises.

    Dems take the House but the GOP seems very likely to take the Senate 50-49. Tester needs a miracle to win and we don’t have a replacement pickup for his seat.

    No further assassination attempts- the SS has been tightening up and the two moronic loons who made the attempts didn’t get the kind of media attention or adulation that might encourage more moronic loons to try.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to North
      Ignored
      says:

      Interesting!

      My thoughts are still percolating (though I stand by both of my “Let’s Face It” posts).

      If I were going to make a bet about The Blue Wall, it’d be that two of the three states would go one way and the third would go the other. I don’t know which two and I don’t know which way. But we’re going to have two one color and the third will be the other.Report

      • North in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        Well right now, polling wise, it looks like PA would be the most likely to flip red which also makes intuitive sense since Wallz is popular in MN and a lot of people in WI commute into MN to work so that support may well bleed over. I still think the blue wall states will hold though.Report

        • Jaybird in reply to North
          Ignored
          says:

          Yeah, maybe. I think I had PA and WI red and MI blue, in my head. But I failed to take into account commuters.

          So here. I think I think that Trump wins due to PA and NV flipping. BUT DANG IT IS CLOSE.

          Republicans pick up 2 in the senate, pick up 8 in the House.

          https://www.270towin.com/maps/jPvkEReport

          • North in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            Thanks, I hate it! Also, it’s basically next door to my own prediction, just one tick to the right.Report

            • Jaybird in reply to North
              Ignored
              says:

              There’s this weird undercurrent of “we don’t know anything”.

              Even as we look at the polls, we don’t know anything.

              Even as we look at North Carolina, we don’t know anything about North Carolina.Report

              • North in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Yes, polling has just been thumped around the last couple electoral cycles- it gets close in hindsight but is always close enough that the margin of error of the aggregate predicts either outcome without hindsight.

                So, the polls say, to the educated reader, “it could go either way” and the educated reader says “we already knew that!”

                The question is, is it 2020, in which case Harris is in trouble, or is it 2022 in which case Trump unambiguously fished. Or is 2024 new?Report

              • Jaybird in reply to North
                Ignored
                says:

                Biden was able to resonate with a lot of undecideds. He was affable and goofy and funny. Does Harris resonate with those same people?

                I don’t know. I mean, my inclination is to say “probably not” because of a couple of things but we’re also seeing very favorable coverage and maybe that’ll be enough to make up the gap between what was organic about Biden and what Harris wasn’t able to capture during the primary back in 2020.

                All this data and no information.Report

              • North in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Biden resonated more with certain groups of people that Harris doesn’t- no denying it. Harris, however, also resonates more with other groups of people than Biden did/does and that can’t be denied either. The question is if the boost is the same or more and if the respective supporters are geographically located in an electorally efficient manner which we do not know.

                But, that being said, I think it’s a moot question because the Biden we have now isn’t the Biden we elected in 2020, he’s clearly slower and there were so many concerns about his age that he had to drop out. I’m dubious we’d be in a better place if he’d stayed in.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to North
                Ignored
                says:

                I’m not arguing for Biden. I thought that Biden would lose back then and I still think that he’d lose if he were running today. In a choice between “Biden and What’s In The Box”, Biden is guaranteed to lose and WITB is not.

                Harris is WITB. I still think it should have been Pritzker but…

                Anyway.

                If she resonates with women better than Clinton did (I mean, the other Clinton), she should do okay.

                But we still have a fairly sexist society.Report

              • North in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Abortion is the question that should have the right up at night. Not just because of women (though they’re a big deal) but also due to barstool conservatives who worry that Dobbs will impact their all important ability to get laid. The Dems have been overperforming since Dobbs and, guess what, this is a post Dobbs election.Report

              • Marchmaine in reply to North
                Ignored
                says:

                Doubt it moves any votes in the ‘barstool right’ … those folks are fine with Trumps signalling on being pro-choice.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to North
      Ignored
      says:

      That’s kind of my expectation as well; the electoral map will be “Obama 2012” and the popular vote will be 53-46 with a higher turnout than the past two years. Less some new mandate for a future and more A Return To Normalcy.Report

      • North in reply to DensityDuck
        Ignored
        says:

        I’m good for a Return to Normalcy personally. It’d be fascinating to watch when the GOP/right does if Trump loses. They obviously wouldn’t “want” to go Trump again but how the getting there happens would be very interesting to see.Report

        • InMD in reply to North
          Ignored
          says:

          I think if he loses chances are high he does at least some prison time, maybe remains a cause celebré in the alt/hard online right, but is quickly memory holed anywhere that butts up against the mainstream.

          I can already read the quizzicle piece at WSJ or wherever that treats the everything Trump as if it was somehow a creation of the left wing media.

          If he loses.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to North
      Ignored
      says:

      Harris is up +2 in North Carolina and Josh Stein is up a whopping +13.

      https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/north-carolina/

      If this continues, it is not a good trend for Republicans.Report

  2. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    I wrote this yesterday but I think the polls are over weighing Republicans and we have already entered the Republican partisan “polling” outfits flooding the zone with S##T stage.

    The most recent polling from Pennsylvania already comes from three Republican Partisan outfits. One of which is run by two college students. Patriot Polling and the Trafalgar Group were part of the outfits that predicted 2022 very poorly.
    Atlas Intel is run by a right-libertarian think tank called The Atlas Network. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/pennsylvania/Report

  3. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    You can see the same flooding of the zone with s*@t in Michigan at both the President and Senate level. Senate polls have had Slotkin, the Democratic candidate consistently up by +4 to +6. Trafalgar group declared the race EVEN. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/senate/2024/michigan/

    Another poll taking by Mitchel Research at the same time had Slotkin up by 5. Mitchell Research was started by a Reagan-Bush guy and also has a partisan lean but not as obvious as Trafalgar or Patriot Polling and they try to be a bit more accurate. Trafalgar could be correct theoretically but it looks more like an outlier and outliers require extraordinary evidence.

    So we might be at a point where individual polls are more reliable than the aggregates.Report

    • North in reply to Saul Degraw
      Ignored
      says:

      All this begs a foundational question: Does skewing the polling/media reporting on the polling have an effect? Even more importantly: what is that effect? Presumably the theory is that making it look like one side is winning emboldens that sides supporters and dispirits the opposing sides supporters but it could just as easily keep the “losing” sides supporters energized and motivated while encouraging complacency for the “winning” sides supporters.

      OTOH there is literature IIRC that a non-marginal number of low info voters bandwagon onto the side they perceive as winning at the last second.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Saul Degraw
      Ignored
      says:

      Silver was explicit today that those polls are excluded for not meeting quality standards.

      538 playing the Sam Wang role this year is delicious irony.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw
      Ignored
      says:

      Polymarket has the highest odds on Trump in a while.

      https://polymarket.com/elections

      If you’ve got an extra $100 lying around, put it on Harris.

      They’re giving away dollars for 46 cents.Report

  4. Greg in Ak
    Ignored
    says:

    Harris takes the “Blue Wall” states and at least one of NV, AZ or NC. Maybe 2 of those 3. Wins popular vote easily of course. R’s take senate, D’s take house. Nothing really surprising

    Big questions are:
    What does trump try to sell after his loss?
    Where will his riot/coup attempt be this time?Report

  5. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    Harry Enten believes that Harris has a +18 lead among white college grads. Clinton was +5 in 2016, Biden was +9 in 2020:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4f9a71f76923dcbee702992ea2d06494ec1d10ed10eb8e60642cfc059cfa97bf.pngReport

  6. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    In the online survey of a representative national sample of likely voters in the United States, 52% of decided voters would support the current vice president or have already voted for her, while 47% would back the former president.

    “Harris holds a 15-point lead over Trump among female decided voters (57% to 42%),” says Mario Canseco, President of Research Co. “Trump is ahead of Harris among male voters (52% to 47%).”

    On a regional basis, Harris holds sizeable leads over Trump in the West (58% to 40%) and the Northeast (55% to 43%). Trump is first in the South (51% to 48%) while the two candidates are virtually tied in the Midwest (Harris 50%, Trump 49%).

    Only 5% of decided voters say they could change their mind and support a different candidate in the presidential election. The proportion of undecided likely voters with four weeks to go in the campaign is 4%.

    More than half of white decided voters (54%) would cast a ballot for Trump or have already done so. Harris leads among decided voters who are African American (71%) or Hispanic / Latino (61%).

    Harris is the top choice for American decided voters who get their news from MSNBC / CNBC (81%), CNN (67%) or a local network (53%), while Trump is ahead among those who watch Fox News (68%).

    Harris holds a five-point lead over Trump among decided voters who have a cat in their household (52% to 47%). The race is closer among decided voters who have a dog at home (Harris 50%, Trump 49%).

    Decided voters in the United States cite the presidential candidate’s ideas and policies (43%) as the main reason behind their choice, followed by the candidate’s political party (24%), desire for stability (14%), desire for change (also 14%) and disgust with other candidates (8%).

    These findings are very similar among decided voters who are backing either Harris or Trump, with one exception. While 10% of Harris voters say their main motivator is “disgust with other candidates”, the proportion is lower (5%) among Trump voters.

    American likely voters were asked which of the two main presidential candidates is best suited to deal with 13 different issues.

    Harris holds the upper hand over Trump on five issues: health care (52% to 36%), education (52% to 36%), the environment (52% to 35%), race relations (50% to 35%) and government accountability (47% to 41%). Trump leads Harris on two issues: immigration (50% to 39%) and national defence (48% to 41%).

    https://researchco.ca/2024/10/07/us-nationwide-oct2024/

    Don’t take anything for granted but this does not seem like good news for TrumpReport

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