The Perils of Impeachment
If you support impeaching Donald Trump now that he’s out of office, you should account for certain hazards.1 I have mixed feelings on whether post-tenure impeachment is wise, and I have theoretical qualms about whether it’s right.2 I write this post not as an argument against impeaching him now, but as a warning of what we might expect. Also–and in case it’s not clear–
I write this post with the conviction that Mr. Trump must never take power again.
A Senate trial will keep Mr. Trump in the spotlight
This point is obvious, but I should say it anyway. Mr. Trump’s ego seems to thrive on publicity. A Senate trial will keep him in the news and will enable him to portray himself as a martyr. A politician who bases his appeal on being an outsider who opposes the establishment can only hope that the Senate, one of the symbols of the establishment, put him on trial.
I’ve tried to argue in a previous post that all impeachments bear presumptive appearance of a “kangaroo court.” I no longer say (as I think I was saying in that post) that they are (in some ways) kangaroo courts. But it’s no secret that they appear that way. And most, perhaps all, serious commentators on impeachment recognize that it is in some measure a political process, and not a strictly legal or judicial one in the way that most of us understand those words.
All that is to suggest that Mr. Trump’s claims to martyrdom will have the veneer of legitimacy, at least among his supporters.
A Senate trial might take too long
Ironically, one thing that would mitigate against Mr. Trump’s ability to claim martyrdom–a trial that gives him every reasonable opportunity to present a defense–might also work against the interests of those who oppose Mr. Trump. In my opinion, now that Mr. Trump is out of office, the argument for an expeditious trial has evaporated. While Mr. Trump was in office, part of the point was to remove a dangerous person before he could do more harm. Now, it’s an issue of process. Even if you believe Mr. Trump doesn’t deserve the time to mount more than a perfunctory defense and even if you believe the Senate should summarily vote to convict, you still have to deal with perception. A too-speedy trial and too-speedy vote, no matter how justified, will also appear too hasty.
A senate trial might be a distraction, especially if it takes more than a few days. Mr. Biden has a lot of work to do. He may need Congress to pass legislation. He needs to reinstall something like competent leadership in the non-civil service offices to which he is responsible for naming people. He needs the Senate to approve them. He can’t do it all with executive orders and naming acting heads or acting deputy heads of such-and-such department.
Yes, my partisan blinders are showing here. I’m fairly optimistic in Biden’s ability and willingness to appoint, on the whole, competent people. I’m also optimistic (though less so) that any legislation to come to Mr. Biden’s desk in the next few months will be on the whole worthy legislation. Events will undoubtedly prove me wrong concerning at least a few of Mr. Biden’s appointments. And most legislation has bad or unexpected consequences, especially if when it’s drafted in a rush to address “emergencies” like the pandemic and recession.
A long trial could tie up the Senate and hinder Mr. Biden’s efforts. I have heard that the Senate might opt to hold the trial part time and conduct other business as it goes along. If so, then this “hazard” is less of a hazard.
The Senate might not convict
Others here might have more to say about which senators would or might vote to convict and which wouldn’t. I haven’t followed the nose counting closely at all. I’d be surprised if two-thirds of the senators vote to convict, but I could be proven wrong.
In addition to enduring the problems of keeping Mr. Trump in the spotlight and the distraction that a trial likely would present, a failure to convict would embolden Mr. Trump.
We all know how he would respond even if the vote were 66 to 34. He would hail it as an exoneration, as a victory to surpass all victories, and as a repudiation against the establishment that has it in for him and his loyal followers. Of course, he might claim victory anyway. It would just be harder.
Mr. Trump might run again even if he’s convicted
Let’s assume the Senate convicts. Let’s also assume the punishment is set at forbidding Mr. Trump from ever holding federal office again.
Even then, Mr. Trump might choose to run again, and he might have an argument for why he should be on the ballot.
It still hasn’t been decided that the Congress can impeach ex-officeholders. Note the passive voice. It might be the courts, or it might be the states, or some other mechanism that “decides.”
The courts
I understand the weight of legal scholarship says it can. But it strikes me that the argument against is at least colorable. When the case is taken to court, we won’t have a rehash of the faux litigation we saw in the efforts to contest the 2020 election. Then, the lawyers declined to make specious and frivolous claims in court. They knew the claims were specious frivolous. With ex-officeholder impeachment, the basic argument won’t be specious or frivolous. It might be wrong, but it will be plausible enough for a lawyer to utter in court and keep their law license.
The states
Or the courts might punt and say it’s a political question. How is that question resolved? I assume the states will have to answer. And because the “Congress can’t impeach ex-officeholders” is at least arguable, Trump-leaning governors and secretaries of state–and perhaps Democratic-leaning officeholders who have a principled objection to impeaching ex-officeholders–might place Mr. Trump on the ballot anyway.
Making that decision may be wrong, but it’s not the same kind of wrong as, say, falsifying election results after three recounts. There’s also something of an “institutional interest” in running fair elections and standing by the results, even if they go against the politician’s preferences. There are different incentives for the same politicians when it comes to, say, whether we should add someone to the ballot to give the voters the full range of choices and excluding that person from the ballot. I can see a principled person saying, “yeah, the impeachment was probably legitimate, but shouldn’t we err on the side of letting the people decide?” As a matter of constitutional law that statement is (probably) wrong. As a matter of pro-democratic sentiment, it has a certain appeal.
And consider this argument. When we vote for someone to be president, we aren’t voting for that person who stands for president. We’re instead voting for electors who have promised to vote for that person. Those electors haven’t been impeached. I find it hard to argue that they shouldn’t be able to stand for election. If they stand for election and cast electoral votes for Mr. Trump….Well, I don’t know what would or could happen.
I doubt that argument would stand up in court, though maybe it would, if it got to court. But it might win as a “political question” that gets decided on the state level. Let the electors run, win, and vote for whomever–and let Congress count the votes. We might hear calls for a special commission coming from unwonted corners.
Conclusion
One thing I have not listed is the precedent impeachment of ex-officeholders might set. The bar for impeachment and conviction is so high, and the stakes so low, that I’m not particularly bothered by the prospect that it will be turned against someone I don’t want it to.3
I said it above and I’ll repeat. Mr. Trump must never take power again. I endorse almost any legal means that promises to ensure he doesn’t, provided that means is prudent and doesn’t create problems that are worse.4 I feel it necessary to state that in part because I have engaged in my own pro-Trump (or pro-Trump-adjacent) apologetics. I renounce only what I’ve explicitly said I renounce. I stand by everything else. But I want it to be clear that I have always opposed him and still do.
- I realize Mr. Trump has already been impeached and the question now is whether the Senate should convict and if so, what punishment it should exact. However, in this post I’m using the word “impeachment” as a synonym for “the process of trial and conviction by the Senate, as well as the decision for what punishment to mete out if the Senate convicts.”
- While my feelings on the matter aren’t particularly strong, I’m inclined to believe that principal purpose of impeachment is removal from office and not punishment after the exit from office. I’m bemused by those who say, “a person can just resign from office to avoid being impeached! How dare they do something that the policy was designed to effect to begin with!” That said, I’m not certain that I’m right about the principal purpose. Even if I am right, it’s not clear to me that the principal purpose ought to obviate an ancillary purpose, such as forbidding an ex-officeholder from ever holding office again.
- Be sure to bookmark this for use when my own ox is being gored and I complain about the precedent that was set.
- I can imagine a by-the-book legal effort to disfranchise people who allegedly might vote for Mr. Trump. Maybe one example would be reprising literacy tests. I don’t endorse that approach. Also, I use that as an illustration. I reject the notion Trump supporters are anti-intellectual illiterates. It’s an ad hominem attack that is factually wrong. And even if it were correct, it would still be an ad hominem attack.
I have to work soon, so I may not be able to engage comments right away. But I’ll try to read (and perhaps respond) later.Report
One of the dangers of the trial is that it gives thousands of Trump supporters a reason to congregate in Washington daily, provoking a large response in terms of fences and razor wire and lots of National Guard. Not a good look for a party that’s pinning its hopes on a “return to normalcy.”Report
IMO, this is a feature not a bug.
If the Republican Party wants to rebuild its image as the party of normalcy, the best thing the Democrats can do is inflame and provoke the MAGAs into a frothing rage.Report
Part of the problem is that there aren’t a lot of really good options.
There are a lot of really good *OUTCOMES*. Trump vanquished, humiliated, and frogmarched to prison! His tax returns released! We find out whether he’s really a billionaire! Future Trumps dissuaded!
“Will Impeachment do that?”
“Um. No.”
What Impeachment will do is give Trump an L. An unprecedented L.
Hurray!, we could say. He got an L!
Now we just have to ask “what will that cost?” and take into account the whole thing where we’re not particularly good at measuring costs.
What would be an acceptable outcome? Trump goes away and is as quiet as Dumbya managed to be. (Maybe we can have The New Yorker or CNN do a story about Trump’s new painting hobby in a decade.)
What would it take to make Trump just go away and be quiet? What would the price of that be?Report
We know the price of not opposing him. We have 4 years of data on that.
And don’t forget – he’s both subject to further potential trial jeopardy in the City and State of New York, and he HATES being a loser. Its why he’s making noises about ginning up his own political party. SO the up sides to adding his Big L is still huge.Report
Personally I think Trump would be a fool to try and start his own party. Maybe the grifting opportunities would be greater if he did, but I doubt it. Starting a party would require a lot of focus, ideas, skills and perseverance- none of which are qualities that Trump and his clown squad are known for having much of. Meanwhile it’d alienate him from his existing political party which he has tolerable odds of dominating going forward.Report
You’re under the impression Trump would be doing the work. If he wants to start a Tea Party-esque internal GOP movement or his own party, there are plenty of people willing to do the work for him while he just does rallies and goes on TV.
After all, there’s serious money to be made grifting Trump’s die-hard supporters, and Trump is perfectly content to let other people do the work while he basks in the adulation of his fans.
The problem is mostly his attention span, although I will note the one thing Trump is notorious for never forgetting is a grudge.Report
Not at all, but even if someone else is doing the work then they need supervision by the figurehead or some reliable minion of the figurehead. Whether he’s starting his own party or trying to dominate the GOP a certain amount of work and competence is needed. I submit that he’d need more of both to start his own party.
Starting his own party is, however, a fools errand considering Trumps priorities; He wants money, adulation and influence- roughly in that order. All of these things are easier to get as a figure within the GOP ecosystem. If he starts his own party then there’s a profound risk that whoever succeeds him within the GOP will suck institutional attention and support away from him. The low info Republican votes, for instance, are pretty much automatically lost if Trump starts his own party.
What are the upsides for Trump to actually starting his own party? He can create the policies, principles and culture of that party from scratch? So the fish what? Trump doesn’t give a damn about any of those things.
What are the downsides? He could end up failing as every new party since the GOP has done. That’d hit him right in the big three he desires. Threatening to start a new party? That’s totally a clever move for Trump, but actually doing it? That’s idiocy that I doubt even he’d descend to.Report
You are using a cost/benefit analysis that makes sense to yourself.
That does not mean that rubric is makes sense to Trump.
For instance, one obvious reason Trump might start his own party: He absolutely likes putting his name on things. It’s literally his entire business model. Slap his name on something, be the figurehead, let other people do the work.
His kids, their spouses, whomever.
Starting a party sounds like an awful idea to me, but it might sound like a great idea to Trump. Who, mind you, has also been wanting to start his own TV network or propaganda outlet. Again, slapping his name on something and playing figurehead. They do the work, he makes the money. The last 20+ years of his life, effectively.
You ask about principles and culture of the party —- why would he care about those? Those are for people who have an ideology and a drive for success. Trump doesn’t care what his name’s on — only that whatever it is is popular. So it’s ideology and culture would be “What Republicans who really liked Trump like”. Successful of failure he doesn’t care, he rakes in his cut from rallies and books and appearances and again — someone else does the work.
Would he do it? I don’t know. But I do know you can’t predict Trump like he’s a rational, political actor. He doesn’t use the same calculus as Dubya, or Obama, or Mitch McConnell, or anyone else.
Honestly, my best guess? He’ll happily sign onto his own party if his kids convince him there’s money to be made and he’s the face of it, even if he doesn’t run for anything. And his kids will do that if there’s money in it.Report
So stipulated- Trump can’t be relied on to persue his own best interests; this is correct and bedvils any Trumpinology conversations you and I have.
Really I don’t disagree with your points per say. I think your last paragraph sums it up pretty well.
I just think there’s more money in sticking with a party that already has a deep tradition and long of wide ranging graft and grift from a credulous and vast audience: the Republican Party. I think Trump and those closest to him will recognize that and keep a separate party as a threat rather than an initiative.
Lord (Lady?) knows Trump has surprised me before though.Report
I think that finding him guilty in the Senate is probably a necessary pre-req to going away and being quiet. Let NYC and NYS do their thing afterwards… (though I admit to suspecting that the NYC/NYS charges were blown out of proportion).
Because that’s the goal, right? Like, Trump not going to Gab or anything like that, just spending his autumn years painting.
I can easily imagine a divorce or something and that turning into tabloid fodder for the next thousand years… but, politically, we want him to not have existed. Like, the Semiquincentennial is coming up. We want Bush and Obama sitting in the box and waving to people, we want Joe to be there, and maybe Kamala… But that’s it and nobody talking about the elephant in the room.Report
IMO the goal of impeachment is not Trump but the future Trumps and just as importantly, the enablers of the future Trumps.Report
Even if he lost the trial and was barred, even it everyone in the states and elsewhere didn’t put him on the ballot, he’d could still campaign for his guy, they guy Trump endorses.
Anyone consider that? Maybe he doesn’t want to do that. But what if he did?Report
There’s also another dynamic swimming under everything. Trump was good for the attention/outrage economy. He was a Gold Rush.
And, much like the original Gold Rush, the real money was in selling equipment to the Miner 49’ers.
The gold mines are tapped, now.
The impeachment might be the last vein.
After this, it’s cold turkey.Report
Of topic, but Goldrush! was one of the great Sierra Online games back in the day…Report
There’s an Anniversary version out!
Grab the kids and tell them “we’re going to play one of the games that *I* played when *I* was your age!”
Then make them use the original parser.Report
Yeah we can be confident that a lot of media figures are going to be pale and trembling with the shakes from Trump withdrawal very soon.Report
How about the perils of not impeaching? Which would be a normalizaton of political violence and an end of democracy.
A lot of people seem to think that because some Republicans stood up to Trump, because the insurrection was unsuccessful, and because Biden was sworn in on time that we are free and clear from democracy ever being threatened by an authoritarian ever again. This is wrong. The thing about coup d’etats is that they seem comical until they succeed. Napoleon III allegedly blabbed so much about his coup that he became a running joke until it succeeded.
I think it is more likely that not that several members of congress aided and abetted the insurrectionists. Among them at least Boebert (Q-Colorado), potentially Greene (Q-Georgia), Hawley, and Cruz. Last week we found out that Trump wanted to oust the acting attorney general and replace him with an obscure DOJ official in Georgia named Jeffrey Clark who was willing to overturn the results. Jeffrey Clark is long-involved in the Federalist Society. We also found out that a PA Republican Rep named Scott Kelly directed Trump’s attention to Mr. Clark. The only thing that stopped this is a mass revolt from career DOJ lawyers. The Arizona Republican party decided to censure their governor, AG, and Cindy McCain for not being sufficiently pro-Trump.
I don’t see how not impeaching does anything but encourage people to try more violence. There cannot be unity without accountability. Time and time again in history, it seems that people respond to failed right-wing fascist coups by quaking in fear and soft peddling on the consequences for the fascists. This does not teach them to stop.Report
I know I keep beating a dead horse, but too many Americans see Democrats a flaccid Not-Fighters. While we can spend days debating the psychology of it all, Republicans (many in the Trumpian camps) succeed in no small measure because they are perfectly willing to do what appears to the unwashed as “fighting” to get their way. Democrats have to stop rolling over and demanding more statistics and more commissions and more reports.Report
Impeaching and holding the insurrectionists accountable is fighting.Report
That’s my point.Report
It is pure psychology. Yesterday, I heard two young women complain about the Democratic Party is doing nothing with their power while the Republicans would run rampshod over us all if they had this power. They had to be young because they clearly don’t remember the do nothing Republican trifecta from 2016 to 2018. The Democratic Party wants to govern and that requires taking things serious rather than putting on a show. Also legislation is a lot harder to do than executive action but more permanent, so when we go for big laws it looks like a long laborious process to idiots.Report
Republicans did exactly what they set out to do – cut taxes and install judges. They accomplished their goals and had no compunction about running over anyone who tried to stop them. Yes, they did it by bottling up lots and lots of legislation, but McConnell didn’t care, and he and trump’s surrogates managed to keep the story alive that it was Democrats who were the do-nothings.Report
I’m writing about the perils of impeaching. Not the perils of not impeaching. Others have written that.Report
Seconding my brother on this one. Not impeaching is much more dangerous than impeaching. The Republicans began their usual power games as soon as the Democratic Party resumed power on January 20th. State Republican politicians are planning to introduce new voting restricting legislation. The Republicans as a whole must be taught a lesson because a lot of them seem to be developing a dangerous taste for minority rule.Report
Thirding.
There are a lot of comments about how Trump was just a warning sign of worse things to come. If this is true then logic holds that the peril of not impeaching is certainly worse than impeaching.
If Trumpism is a cancer, then any treatment short of death is preferable.Report
I think not impeaching is more dangerous than impeaching only if the impeachment (and trial and conviction and removal) happen during his tenure. Afterward he leaves office, impeachment/conviction by itself is a slap on the wrist (assuming it succeeds).
And yet none of those things are impeachable offenses. I don’t see how impeaching someone who did what Trump did will bar people from doing the things for which Trump wasn’t impeached.
It won’t “teach the Republicans” a lesson. At best, it would teach future presidents that if they foment an attempted coup, the *might* be reprimanded after they leave office and not permitted to run again.Report
I wish they had found a way to force it through before inauguration and I get the drawbacks of how this is likely to play out. However if there was ever a place to draw a line I think we saw it. Even if Trump probably couldn’t be convicted in a criminal prosecution for his conduct Jan 6 there’s a principle here about the political process that’s worth defending.Report
The 50-50 senate with Harris as the tiebreaker did not come into power until last week. Forcing this before then would have let Republicans hold it up in the Senate. A later trial allows for a better presentation of the evidence.Report
This may be where my blinders come on but I’m not sure how much evidence anyone open to voting for a conviction needs to see. Quite a few if not all of them were witnesses to what happened.Report
I don’t know how much the details matter to anyone, but the specific charge in the impeachment article is that Trump incited an insurrection — Trump’s done plenty to earn impeachment, but the support for this specific charge is pretty thin (see Em C.’s post) and makes it more difficult for Republicans to go along. There are even folks on the right who wonder whether this is one of those 11-dimensional chess moves where the Dems decided that the politics worked out better with less GOP involvement and wrote it this way on purpose.Report
“I realize Mr. Trump has already been impeached . . .”
Probably? There was a debate last year when it appeared that the House was going to hold the articles of impeachment indefinitely as to whether Trump had been impeached. Noah Feldman, a Professor of Law whom Democrats called to testify before the House in favor of impeaching Trump, argued there was no impeachment until presentment to the Senate. Pay-walled Bloomberg article Under this view, the power to impeach is the power to charge a public official to a competent body. This is an academic point most of the time, but it does recognize that until the charges are made, the House can retract or amend the articles of impeachment, or use a modicum of leverage to push for favorable process in the Senate.
There are other opinions on this, so he’s probably been impeached, but that will be up to each Senator to decide when they decide whether they can convict a former President.Report
I hadn’t known about all that.Report
We don’t need a special commission. Congress does have a job in this. They really do have the last, definitive say about who becomes president…a fact Republicans just tried to take advantage of. (Although the VP is not a factor in that decision!)
Now, what happened this January 6th was nonsense, Congress can’t throw out votes because vague handwaves about ‘bad voting’. Well, they can, in a legal sense, no one can stop them, but that’s not a _justification_ to overturn an election.
But they can throw out an ineligible person. There’s not another point at the Federal level where someone who was ineligible for the office of president would be officially thrown out anyway. That’s the only place it can happen. So on January 6th, not only does Congress have to officially decide who won, but also whether or not that person passes the Constitutional qualifications, and that includes the question ‘Did we, as Congress, bar this person from holding office?’.
At that point, the actual Constitutional Crisis shows up: Should Congress do this by counting all the votes, and if someone ineligible wins they should instead pick their VP? Or should they do it by refusing to count that person’s votes?
And if they do that, do the non-votes count towards the total votes cast, which could mean the other candidate doesn’t have the majority required to win. Or do those votes not get tallied in, which means the other candidate has 100% of the votes. (Either way, the other guy wins…in the case of no majority win, Congress is only allowed to pick one of the top 3 EC winners.)
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Now, in reality, we shouldn’t ever get to this point. Ineligible people are blocked from running by simply not being allowed on the ballot in various states. Every state has a ‘To run for an office, you have to be eligible to hold the office’ law.
And this would happen to Trump. A large chunk of states would decide he’s ineligible to be on the ballot. _Including the primary ballots_, so it doesn’t matter if only blue states decide that…if Trump can’t take the delegates of blue states, which weirdly was where he was most successful (Because Republican parties in blue states are often gibbering pools of nonsense because they don’t have to do anything useful, unlike red states that they do have to govern in some manner.), he’s basically screwed.Report
My reference to a “special commission” was to what the Republicans were claiming they wanted this time around and to the thing that happened in 1876/1877. But you’re right, the Congress could (and should) refuse to count votes for a person made ineligible by impeachment. That said, the Congress might not, in that situation.
I do admit that’s a longshot once it gets that far. But who knows what could happen.Report
In a month or two, I’d really like to have immigration reform. I’d even be happy if it took 6-12 months.
An impeachment trial that takes a day or week is probably fine. Convict him and move on. I don’t think that’s what we’re looking at. A second impeachment that let’s Trump take all the oxygen out of the capital for a few months probably means not getting immigration reform.
This 2nd impeachment will… throw him out of office? Inform people as to what happened? Unify the nation?
My expectation is this is a waste of time. We’re not going to embarrass Trump because that’s impossible. His followers are already not dealing with reality so that’s unlikely to change here. I doubt this keeps out of office because I don’t think he can get back into office no matter what we do.
If you want to hurt him, you need jail time or threats against his business. Anything else is just a waste of time.Report
This is a fiction promulgated by Mitch McConnell. Just like the Filibuster is a quaint tradition now honored in its breach for everything but legislation, the “inability” of the Senate to do anything substantive is purely a choice. Notice the Senate approved a Supreme Court Justice quite swiftly when it felt so inclined.
This is also a lie – Trump is very much and ego driven person, narcissistically so, and being mocked as a twice impeached and once convicted former President will indeed burrow its way into his skin and eat him up from inside.
Never mind reports that now that he’s a loser again memberships to Mar-A-Lago are plummeting.Report
You’re comparing an imaginary body to the actual one and calling the actual one “fiction”. The Senate, as it exists right now, can be expected to behave in expected ways. For example they “couldn’t” meet while Trump was still in office because one Senator disagreed.
He’s a Troll. He thrives on attention, even negative attention. Not feeding him is the worst thing we can do.
I want this session of Congress to be about Immigration reform and not Trump.Report