My Corona: Authorities, Bureaucracies, and the Illusions of Safety
Well, it appears the coronavirus will be coming soon to a set of lungs near you.
It’s hard to resist the notion that if only the powers that be would crack down – or would have cracked down sooner, because the ship has likely sailed on worldwide containment – they’d be able to prevent the spread of COVID-19. The “if only” notion keeps burbling up as I read the news each morning whilst repeatedly mumbling the word idiots into my coffee.
To paraphrase the words of one Ordinary Times writer – if ever there was a legitimate use of authoritarian government control, surely preventing the spread of a disease is it.
Admittedly, it’s my gut instinct too. As I watched people — some known to be infected with COVID-19 — toddling off the petri dish that was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and sent home to America (where I am NOW) and Canada (where I could be in 2 hours) on planes circulating recycled virus-laden air for everyone on board to breathe, I just want to scream to the sky because so many people mishandled and are mishandling the quarantine in about 1000 different ways.
But that’s the problem with authoritarianism, isn’t it? You put your safety in the hands of government workers who under the best case scenario are government workers – fallible, overworked, and underpaid, and under the worst case scenario, are Actual Bad Guys. They’re bound to screw it up, being inept in several dozen ways unique to bureaucracies and oppressive in several hundred other ways unique to authoritarian bureaucracies.
I’m not exaggerating when I say that authoritarian bureaucracies are comprised of Actual Bad Guys. We know that during the SARS epidemic the Chinese government threatened to execute or jail anyone who broke quarantine, so one must reasonably assume they did and are continuing to do the same with COVID-19. Some of the stories that have come out of China regarding the current quarantine have been chilling, like the boy with cerebral palsy left to die when his father and brother were quarantined, and I sadly suspect we will hear more terrible stories as the days go by. It seems that the Chinese government can’t contain a virus without threatening human life and liberty, including literally killing people.
That makes me wonder if preventing the spread of a disease truly is a legitimate use of government control after all. If governments can’t rise to the challenge of protecting public health without infringing on civil liberty, doesn’t mandating quarantines simply invite them to make heavy-handed terror-fueled decisions? Even when they’re well-intentioned (like quarantining people in an enclosed space like a cruise ship) their policies often make matters worse (like quarantining people in an enclosed space like a cruise ship), and when not well-intentioned, they create more human misery than they prevent.
Go down to the DMV and see what they’re up to. Do you trust the passionless drones at the DMV to do ANYTHING that really matters? I don’t. Why on earth would we assume some Chinese bureaucrats – living in a country where they use slave labor and force women to have abortions against their will – would be any different? Honestly, why would we even assume our own country would be different? If you believe we Americans are somehow different, better, and wiser than the Chinese, I have some oceanfront property in Iraq to sell you, and I like so totally promise you’ll find some WMD’s there!
After watching governments around the world operate for the past 100 years…200 years…ok pretty much forever…why are we in such a hurry to hand over the reins of our collective fate to a bunch of probably-corrupt morons who care more about themselves and their families and even their own reputations than they ever could about you and yours? I don’t expect any senior Chinese official gives a rat’s ass about my childrens’ lives and I would be a naive fool if I expected him to act in accordance with our needs. I don’t even expect American officials to care about my family. The Chinese wanted to “contain” coronavirus because it was embarrassing to them. That’s it. That’s the primary motivation of government bureaucrats since time began. Not public health, not saving lives. Preventing their own embarrassment.
But I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking that even if their motives are selfish, what matters is that they contain the disease. Greater good and all that, dontcha know.
One of the funnier COVID-19 moments of the past week, if you like black humor, which I suspect is where most of us are at right now, was when the Iranian deputy health minister appeared on several TV shows coughing and feverish, claiming that quarantines were Stone Age technology and that Iran wouldn’t be using them, only to reveal he had coronavirus.
Even if you believe authoritarianism can stop the spread of a highly contagious disease, coordinating the actions of authoritarian regimes is like herding cats. Even if an authoritarian quarantine could work in one country (and that is a BIG IF) if different governments refuse to quarantine or implement quarantines in ways that cause more harm than good (like quarantining people in an enclosed space like a cruise ship) they are pointless endeavors, violating civil liberty for an illusion of safety that is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
Because the Iranian defense minister is right, and I hope he survives since he’s the only honest person I’ve seen on TV so far. If a disease is highly contagious like COVID-19 is, quarantines aren’t gonna work in a world with airplanes and cruise ships, regardless of how much freedom is trampled along the way. Quarantines really ARE Stone Age technology, like, literally. Quarantines probably worked great in the Stone Age. A highly contagious disease in our modern world with 8 billion of us jerks driving around coughing on stuff while we take selfies is gonna spread like wildfire. It’s not like the Middle Ages where a village might go down with something and you were safe 500 miles away in a whole ‘nother fiefdom you never left because there were highwaymen out there and you totally lacked a mule.
Modernity. It’s a small world after all.
But SARS! But MERS! Sadly, they’re both irrelevant. The reason why the quarantines for SARS and MERS worked and the quarantine for COVID-19 almost certainly won’t, has little to do with the ability of government to contain diseases. SARS and MERS were quarantine-able because MERS was hard to catch and in the case of SARS, the point of highest contagiousness came with the most severe symptoms, so the people who were at their most contagious were lying around feeling poorly. SARS and MERS were able to be stopped due to the properties of the diseases themselves and their successful containment did not reflect upon the wisdom and skill of the bureaucrats who attempted to contain them – because they had neither.
And as for last year’s measles outbreaks, most people in the population already had immunity to measles thanks to vaccination, so it didn’t spread very far. Despite being pretty much the most contagious disease of them all, measles was contained thanks to herd immunity. In all our quarantine success stories, the government was only able to prevent outbreaks because the diseases lent themselves towards being contained or because actions had been taken decades in advance that enabled containment.
I may just be a simple country woman, but seems to me there ain’t no containing a highly contagious disease if people can walk around feeling fine with no clue they’re even sick, spreading disease all the while. Especially not when the population at large has no immunity to it. You can violate civil liberties all you want to, short of nuking whole cities and killing more people than the disease would have to begin with (and probably not even then) it’s going to be incredibly hard if not impossible to contain a disease that’s presenting the way COVID-19 is.
But that’s actually the good news, too. The reason emerging zoonotic diseases are more dangerous to humans than the common cold is because diseases don’t “want” to kill their natural host. Diseases “want” to spread because spreading means they survive to infect another day. The best way for a disease to spread is by being both mild and contagious. But in the case of zoonotic diseases, humans aren’t their natural hosts. They spread in bats or rats or camels or pangolins or whatever and those critters have developed immunity to them over the generations by killing off the unfortunate who lacked the ability to fight them off. But humans haven’t ever, or rarely ever, encountered the diseases that animals spread, so they hit us hard at first.
Over the course of time, when a virus is communicable between humans the virus will mutate to become less virulent with time. Because a disease “wants” to spread, diseases tend to mutate so people can spread them far and wide without dying. Of course, a virus doesn’t actually “want” to do anything; it’s simply that the mild strains spread further and faster and the more virulent ones burn out before spreading very far.
So it’s actually kind of a good thing there may be symptom-free people who feel just fine walking around corona-ing all over the place…it makes it more likely that the strain of COVID-19 you and I encounter is a mild one.
You could make a case that that’s a good reason for quarantine. Maybe we can’t prevent the disease from spreading, but maybe we could slow it down enough to give it time to mutate. Maybe by quarantining the very sick, we actually favor the transmission of milder strains. (Some evidence indicates this may be the case with COVID-19.) And by slowing down transmission we can give hospitals and municipalities more time to prepare so our infrastructure will be less overwhelmed.
But even given all that, I’m still not convinced these benefits are worth empowering authoritarians.
A government strong enough to forcibly quarantine people for diseases has the ability to do a whole lot of other stuff. Of course we would never suggest that coronavirus might have come from a government lab because that would be a crazy conspiracy theory that polite people don’t admit to wondering about even though everyone secretly is, but let’s talk about some actual atrocities the US government and those working under the umbrella of the US Government have committed in the name of public health research.
-Repeatedly infected the mentally ill and disabled with syphilis, gonorrhea, tuberculosis, influenza, and other nasty microbes. Even national hero Jonas Salk was in on this.
-Infected babies with herpes, injected newborns and pregnant women with a host of radioactive concoctions, shoved radium rods up the noses of unsuspecting schoolchildren, and as you probably recall, notorious behaviorist John Watson tormented at least one baby into developing a phobia.
-Infected prisoners with bubonic plague, malaria, STDs, exposed them to radiation (including radiating their testicles, in some cases not even tracking to see if their future offspring were affected), and injected them with dioxin (aka Agent Orange) and a host of other chemicals.
–Released bacteria into the air over San Francisco, released bacteria into the subway system of both New York and Chicago, repeatedly released mosquitoes to investigate their use as a potential bioweapon, and may have released whooping cough bacteria into the air in Florida, although the latter claim is not fully substantiated.
-Cancer researcher Dr. Chester Southam repeatedly, over the course of decades, injected people with HeLa cells without consent and also injected terminal cancer patients with West Nile Virus (though he had consent for this latter experiment, it’s debatable how forthcoming he was). For his trouble he was made the president of the American Association of Cancer Research.
-Perhaps the most famous of these cases, withheld medical treatment from black syphilis patients in the Tuskegee experiment. A similar study was done by the US Government involving indigenous peoples in Guatemala.
This is a mere sampling of atrocities committed by the freest country the world has ever known. I cannot even imagine the types of things China does and is probably still doing in the name of the greater good. And yet people want to give government agencies both in the US and abroad MORE power?? You want to hand them the ability to restrict human movement too? Really?
If your answer is yes, because people are like so totally moral now or whatever, I’d just remind you that even when people aren’t being knowingly, deliberately evil, public health systems break down. Remember those two nurses who cared for the Ebola patient in Dallas, who both contracted Ebola, one of whom had been allowed by the CDC to fly on a plane despite having a fever because the CDC said it wasn’t high enough to be significant? Remember the doctor who came back from treating Ebola patients, was given a clean bill of health, then rode the NYC subway, went bowling, ate at restaurants, and jogged through Harlem before developing symptoms?
We know already that the quarantine protocols for sick patients in the US are grossly inadequate and aren’t being followed anyway. And just this week a sick person was not tested for COVID-19 despite having symptoms for four full days because they didn’t meet the CDC criteria for diagnosis.
As I wrote the previous few paragraphs, I couldn’t help but recall the several dozen times me or my children or people I know went to the hospital and were basically told “take two aspirin and call me in the morning”; suffice it to say we could all have been suffering from the Martian Death Flu for all the care the doctors took with our conditions. I even have firsthand experience with guidelines-gone-wrong; I was denied Tamiflu when I got the swine flu at 7 months pregnant because, just like the Ebola nurse, my fever wasn’t deemed high enough to meet the CDC’s criteria for diagnosis. It was only when I got sicker (even though I never did develop a higher temperature) and managed through sheer dumb luck to get in touch with my personal physician – he just happened to be on call that night instead of the 700 other doctors and nurses he was in practice with – I was given the medication that I needed in time for it to actually help. My fate very well may have hinged on a phone call.
Despite sensible precautions being in place, in the best medical system in the world, even during the Obama administration so you can’t even blame it on Trump defunding anything, government agencies seem incapable of handling medical crises uniformly and well. Putting a bureaucracy — even one made up of moral people in a free nation — in charge of public health has drawbacks and the biggest drawback is that bureaucracies are made up of people who are really not too interested in the fates of anyone beyond themselves and the folks they know. People — even the most caring and skilled — are fallible. People get overworked and burned out and follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit. People get tired and careless and sometimes end up making choices that are easier for them at the expense of others. People are self-interested and often put saving face and protecting their jobs ahead of what’s good for other people.
Bureaucracies are fallible even when they have the best of intentions, which they usually don’t. Beyond human foibles, power, even the silly, meaningless power of a medical professional on call making a choice to dole out $10 of medication to a person or not, makes otherwise good people turn bad and bad people turn worse. Why give up our liberty in exchange for something that isn’t going to work anyway because it’s a terrible system designed and implemented by fallible human beings?
We’re trading freedom for an illusion of safety, not even the real thing.
I understand that COVID19 is scary. I’m not thrilled about it either. But I don’t trust these guys and gals saying “I’m from the government, I’m here to help you”. The fox is begging me to be put in charge of the henhouse, telling me it’s for my own good, but he’s not only hungry, he’s terrible at being in charge. This fox is an inept bumbler on his best day, and he’s a freaking fox. Do we, the hens, really want to empower that fox to lock the door in the name of protecting us?
Personally, I’d like to keep the exits open just in case the cure is worse than the disease.
Govt may not be able to manage a quarantine, but gov’ts are a lot better at keeping people out of countries…except for the US. We could be better and we could say ” our borders are closed until this crisis is over”. Of course, if the us was more self sufficient, we wouldn’t need all that cheap chinese slave labor kit either 🙂Report
The US was self-sufficient. It never needed Chinese slave labor. Chinese slave labor was particularly advantageous for a very few.
Same sorts of people who know how to work the bureaucracy.Report
“The US didn’t need Chinese slave labor. It had *it’s own* slave labor.”Report
Trump got wildly upset at the State Department for deciding to fly those sick cruise ship passengers back to the states. One corona patient ended up in a facility in Washington State that’s about a mile or so from an assisted living nursing home. Now about 25 elderly patients at the nearby nursing home (out of 108 total) are showing symptoms, as are about an equal number of a much number of staff.
Either Kolchak needs to investigate an ancient curse that caused an outbreak in such close proximity to the one known case, or we can bet that medical personnel were working shifts at both facilities without taking appropriate precautions, acting like Covid-19 was a cold or mild bacterial pneumonia instead of treating it like Ebola or smallpox. Or perhaps they had the patient properly isolated but caught the virus from the health care workers who delivered the patient to them, because they just assumed that other health care workers weren’t carriers.
But I’m suspecting sloppy procedures because the Daily Mail ran photos of the responders loading an infected nursing home resident into an ambulance. None were wearing face shields, much less bio-hazard suits, and one was just wearing a surgical mask, jeans, and T-shirt, and handling the patient with his bare hands! Heck, around here a cop will put on disposable gloves just to touch your driver’s license at a traffic stop, but apparently during a pandemic it’s too much to ask a health care worker not to pick their nose after handling a plague victim.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the ambulance crew went to coach a Little League Team as soon as their shift ended. Since the CDC ordered all the first responders into quarantine, I’d guess they saw the same eye-popping mistakes. In China even people spraying down the streets are in full bio suits, much less people handling actual patients.
There were earlier reports that some of the personnel involved in flying the infected Americans back to the states had filed complaints about improper procedure and a lack of protective gear. Whoever was in charge over there had them handle patients without much of any protective gear at all, and it wouldn’t surprise me if some of those personnel have been spreading the infection on the West Coast. That’s why I suggested above that even if the patient was isolated properly, the people transporting the patient might have been the vector.
So when you complain about a quarantine, don’t forget that some of the people enforcing the quarantine might be Typhoid Mary, going from site to site to make sure all the procedures are being followed – while infecting everyone they’re supposedly protecting because they don’t have enough common sense to pour pee out of boot.
Obviously a lot of personnel are not treating the threat seriously, and some of them have created dangers where none had existed. Without a government bureaucrat’s decision to fly infected Americans to the states, there wouldn’t have been a patient with corona virus in Washington State. Without a health care worker getting infected through some kind of mistake, sloppy procedure, or lack of a good understanding the threat, the folks at the nursing home wouldn’t have been infected – by the virus that shouldn’t have been in Washington State.
The elderly folks in the assisted living nursing home are of course at a very high risk of dying from Covid-19, so that chain of bad decisions is almost certainly going to kill Americans who wouldn’t have even been exposed absent actions by government personnel or health care workers making very bad decisions.
It’s these chains of bad decisions that might make some take a favorable view of North Korea’s decision to shoot stupid people who endanger the group. A quarantine only works if it’s a real quarantine, not a “wink wink” quarantine that only applies to Joe Six Pack.
Governor Inslee has said he’s ready to deploy the National Guard to get things back under control, and if he is it would make more sense to do it now than wait until it’s a futile gesture of just inserting soldiers into a sea of already infected citizens just to show authority, and then having the soldiers spread it even further because they’ll catch it too.Report
If only there had been a government office of public health devoted to this very problem and staffed by competent medical professionals, chosen for their expertise instead of political loyalty!
But alas…Report
I’d prefer the politically loyal ones who would be trying to prevent an outbreak to the resistance folks who would be trying to create an outbreak so Trump doesn’t score a win. Seattle is part of the soft underbelly of total government dysfunction that causes the rest of us to worry.Report
This is a perfect example of how the American conservatives have become Sovietized.
They can’t even imagine the possibility of neutral government officials who have expertise and competence; Everyone is either a Loyal Party Member or an enemy.Report
Might that have something to do with the left spending three years bragging about how they’re the resistance that’s going to bring down Trump, and then proving their zeal through countless actions?
Note that if anyone in the Obama Administration had claimed they were working secretly on the inside to destroy him, they’d have been hunted down and eliminated like a dog instead of getting lauded in the press like they were a super hero.Report
Was it the Resistance that disbanded the team tasked specifically with handling epidemics?
Was it the Resistance who demanded that all questions about this be answered, not by trained epidemiologists, but by the wife of the guy tasked with immigration?
Did the Resistance overrule medical professionals and force the political appointees to encounter those people without proper equipment and protocols?
The staggering incompetence of this administration is entirely self inflicted.Report
What team was disbanded, and what disease had they been formed to combat?
Who is the guy tasked with immigration, Mark Morgan? Is Morgan even married?
Which political appointees are encountering people without proper protocols?
The evacuations were run by the State Department, a department that seems to be almost entirely resistance members. The person in charge of State’s medical response is an Obama appointee.Report
Reading sources other than Fox and the Washington Examiner will give you much food for thought.Report
the resistance folks who would be trying to create an outbreak so Trump doesn’t score a win.
“The Coronavirus is a hoax perpetrated by the left to take down President Trump.” lol
KT McFarland stated categorically, without any pushback from her interviewers, that Covid-19 was created in a Chinese bio-weapons lab. The Chinese are apparently so fearful of Trump’s tough trade policies that they’re willing to destroy their own economy to get back at him. (Conservatives think this reasoning actually makes perfect sense !! )Report
Is this some of that “deep state” crap? Why didn’t I hear anyone talking about all the conservatives among the millions of gov’t workers who were diligently working to sabotage Obama? Or are all gov’t workers, millions of them, revolutionary liberals? Maybe you, and your (insert orange-tinged insult here) leader are just looking for some sort of excuse for (insert long list of incompetencies here).
For crying out loud, there are millions of people showing up every work day to do the jobs that make the whole thing work. Are some of them not perfect? No doubt. Could the numbers be reduced (or increased)? Make a reasonable case for it. But (clutching pearls): “OMG! They are a Deep State that wants Our Guy to fail!” is nonsense.Report
An example of a competent efficient government response to the pandemic which doesn’t require draconian human rights violations:
Free, Covid-19 testing…in a drive thru.
https://twitter.com/JakeAnbinder/status/1233972572255129600Report
Early in the Covid-19 cycle I expressed to someone that China, being a totalitarian country with a highly centralized decision-making structure, was uniquely situated to control the spread of the pandemic, and the fact that it couldn’t was evidence of how difficult these things are to contain. Right after I said that I read a comment from ex-Soviet chess player Garry Kasparov who wrote (not to me, of course) that no, authoritarian societies aren’t well suited to containing epidemics like Covid-19 because they’re decision-making is *primarily* motivated by blame-shifting and denials rather than addressing the underlying problem. He’s undoubtedly right, at least based on personal experiences which I lack, but I think the deeper moral of the story is that aggressively containing an epidemic requires two things which are politically dicey for any government, authoritarian or otherwise: the amount of disruption required to contain an epidemic’s spread can only be justified politically *after* the threat of contagion is established by facts on the ground. Ie., that it’s already spread.Report
But that decision is also easy after the public has seen how the disease has spread somewhere else. Many countries, totalitarian and otherwise, should be ready to employ early and effective measures because everybody has now seen how fast the disease spread in China, Korea, and Italy. They’ve also seen the resultant lockdown measures that had to be employed to contain it. Thus most folks should be quite willing to wildly inconvenience travelers and take a hit on trade just to avoid either being in a lockdown or coughing their lungs up until they die.
And leaders can point to what other countries just did and do the same. Apparently the Australian public is giving credit to Trump for his early travel ban, which helped motivate their government to buck WHO’s advice (that travel bans were premature) and go ahead and do the same as the US. Australian universities took a huge enrollment hit after the Chinese New Year because they’ve become highly dependent on Chinese students, but the public isn’t sympathetic to the whining from the universities that have been rolling in foreign money. Everybody instead seems happy that they’re not yet overrun with a deadly virus.
Also, in my earlier comment I thought that the Seattle patient had been one of the evacuees, but a subsequent story says he’s one of the cases of unknown origin. However the nursing home cases are still likely related due to simple proximity. And now two cases of unknown origin have popped up in Chicago. Perhaps the travel ban wasn’t quite quick enough or extensive enough for a virus that can slip past simple checks because carriers often won’t have any symptoms.Report
Remember Trump’s first press conference on the4 coronavirus? I thought he said some pretty good things. But one thing he didn’t say, which I think was necessary in that moment, was to clearly and unambiguously say that measures to prevent the spread of the disease are necessarily in tension with individual’s personal desires to be unencumbered by quarantines and so on. He really needed to hammer the basic point we all know: that preventing the spread of the disease will require some disruptive measures.
But he didn’t say that, which in my mind implies that he thinks there’s a way through this which doesn’t require authoritarian-type impositions. That’s a dangerous game to play!Report
authoritarian societies aren’t well suited to containing epidemics like Covid-19 because they’re decision-making is *primarily* motivated by blame-shifting and denials rather than addressing the underlying problem.
If there had been any doubt about what sort of society we’ve become, this should dispel it.Report
In all the stories I’ve read about life under repressive regimes, whether the Soviet bloc, or Latin American banana republics, or just any of the miserable kleptocracies around the world, is that that what they all have in common is staggering incompetence.
They are exceedingly skilled at ferreting out dissidents, or graft or bribes, but the basic functions of governance like keeping the lights on and catching common criminals is beyond them.
And Kasparaov illuminates why, that their resources are devoted only to managing appearances, not managing the reality.
And the idea that a government can simply choose to turn off that tendency and suddenly become efficient and competence is as laughable as thinking some couch potato can just get up and throw a 35 yard pass.
The time to create a governmental structure which was capable of testing thousands of people within weeks, or quarantining millions of people in Chicago or New York was last year and the year before that and the decade before that.
These sorts of things are entirely possible; We see other countries doing it right now. But it first of all requires that we want to do it, that we the voting public believe that government is capable of being efficient, swift, and staffed with competent well trained people who are managed effectively.
But for the past few decades America has become the place where allegedly clever people walk around saying that the nine most terrifying words are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help”.Report
So, this isn’t specifically about this post (much crunch, most chewy) but about COVID-19 affecting society, and such. Not really political, just interesting.
http://blueberrytown.com/index.php/2020/02/29/covid-19-speculations/Report
DMV!? Heavy sigh. Why yes i’d trust the people at the DMV. When i’ve been there they have been quick and efficient. The only delays have been from my fellow citizens who didn’t have the easily available forms. They got me through so fast i didn’t have time to sit down…. But but but, they are “passionless drones”….Umm yeah. All the facepalms here. Simple name calling. Lord knows people at terminals in private businesses are full of passion, independent and creative. Yeah i know ragging on the DMV is a trope. A shallow trope. I stopped reading here for a bit.
Came back to the rest of the piece. Tom Cotton and the wash examiner. Cthulu on a crutch. Yeah that is crazy tin foil hate conspiracy hat crap. Sure govs have done terrible things in the past. That doesn’t provide any evidence COVID is human created. Until there is some evidence it’s as good chemtrails.
Lets just hope for good public health measures that find a healthy balance i guess.Report
Yeah, nothing but love for my DMV. Sometimes there’s a long wait, but it seems to occur on Monday mornings and Friday afternoons. Easy enough to avoid. Weird that it’s continually used as a whipping post by libertarians and conservatives.Report
Not to mention the post office. I’ve been using the post office’s services for something like 50 years now, sending and receiving thousands of documents, many of them very important (checks, tax forms, you name it) and I doubt if I have had more than one or two problems in all of those decades. And I can still send a letter to my pal across the continent for just a few dimes that gets there, dependably, in a couple of days. But who is often trotted out as a Big Failure? The post office.
At least in my ZIP code, the counter staff is invariably nice, efficient, even funny. People (some of them named Turner) just seem desperately to want gov’t services to suck, and then very purposefully avoid mentioning the myriad that don’t.Report
Our local library just underwent an expansion. Pretty sweet! A baker’s dozen computers to access the World Wide Web; computers for in-house searches; sharing with 8 or 10 nearby libraries; plenty of places to conformtably sit or do work…
Terrible. 🙂Report
During the 2007-8 unpleasantness, our county commission broke a long-standing informal deal and diverted “library” money to fund other things. At the next available opportunity, an initiative to split the library’s piece of the county property tax levy into a separate category and make it impossible for the commission to touch it went on the ballot. Won by an enormous margin.
What has been useful to me over the last few years is that our local library is not only networked with nearby libraries, it’s networked with a couple dozen research university libraries. I am able to borrow some of the oddest things from the stacks at those schools with about a three-week delivery delay.Report
Remember the War on Public Libraries?
Good lord, that was a real thing. Conservatives have lost their damn minds. 🙂Report
When I last had to update my passport, which involved both a name and gender marker change, I showed up at the post office, told the woman there what I was doing, and she grabbed the forms I needed, explained what I needed to do, and then even took my picture for me.
The social security officer was likewise helpful.
The best, however, was the DMV worker. When I came up to his counter with my forms, he glanced at the form, glanced at me (visibly early transition), and said, “Oh honey, congratulations.”
I’ve heard the stories of people with invalid parking tickets getting caught in a bureaucratic hellscape. I believe them. I’ve had similar experiences trying to get help by my cable provider.Report
You know those people probably voted for Trump, right?Report
The DMV guy was pretty femme, so probably gay. The post office lady had a kind of feminist/butch vibe. I honestly don’t remember much about the SS person, tbh. It was a number of years ago.
So, maybe they were Trumpaloos — I didn’t ask — but probably not.
Have you ever been to Boston? There are, of course, a number of Trump supporters here, but they’re not necessarily the “WWC” that everyone assumes. That’s a media narrative.
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It’s funny. At my work, we have the “facilities” staff. They’re the people who run the kitchens and clean up and shit. They don’t work for {my employer}. Instead, they work for a contract company. They don’t get the kinds of benefits that we full employees do.
(Which is bullshit, honestly. But late capitalism is kinda ass.)
Anyway, do you think they’re Trumpaloos, because they’re “working class”? I’m sure a few are, but actually not really. I talk to them. We hang out outside sometimes, on smoke break. (Except I recently quit smoking, wish me luck.) We talk. I ask about their kids.
One dude, for example, white guy, unmarried, has a kid. He struggles a lot, but he’s a damn good line cook. Anyway, he has very obvious untreated ADHD. (It’s very obvious to me. We know our own.) Anyway, I talk to him a lot. We relate. Sure, I’m a software engineer. He’s a cook. I’m trans. He’s dudely af. Doesn’t matter. He’s my bro. We both have weird brains.
We don’t talk politics much, but he’s def not a Trumpaloo. Fuck that bigoted garbage. He ain’t like that.
Trump isn’t popular among this group, for all the expected reasons.
The Trump supporters around my office are all James Damore types, just right wing shitheads. Guys like that have a kind of stench. (Not literally, but you know what I mean. They have a vibe.)Report
“ We don’t talk politics much, but he’s def not a Trumpaloo. ”
Haw. It’s important to cut toxic trump supporters out of your life unless they’re, like, your cool friends, right?Report
We discuss politics enough to know he thinks Trump is hot garbage. And indeed, I have no Trumpaloos in my life. Why would I? I have no shortage of friends. I can afford to be choosy. Setting a standard of “didn’t vote for an obvious fascist” is a pretty low bar to clear anyhow.Report
My experience with the DMV has been—so so. Stuff I can do via mail or electronically–easy. Having to go in person and get stuff done…less so. What worse was the damn emissions control people….Like when they don’t remember to screw in the gas cap and you “fail” your emission test. So I told him:
Yah, dude..you gotta screw in the cap.” And he ran the test and “you failed” ” Dude, you have to turn off the car and restart it”. finally passed.. shesh. Oh, and guys don’t know how to drive a stick.Report
Concur. The DMV ran me through promptly and efficient. I am free to go at non peak times. People who are forced to go at peak times do face delays. We don’t staff the DMV sufficiently to prevent this because we don’t want to have a bunch of redundant people much of the time to avoid the extra expense.
If you want an example of being unhelpful to clients, try the airlines.Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUvpYE99vgReport
Meanwhile, millions of Americans don’t have health coverage (which would allow people to pursue testing and treatment without fear of economic calamity) nor nationwide sick leave (which would allow people to stay home without fear of economic calamity), all because the freedom of business owners always manages to trump the freedom of literally everybody else, no matter how nightmarish that freedom always ends up being for everybody else.Report
That this category of workers are the ones preparing food and caring for the elderly and children is maybe the most under reported aspect of this.
“On Saturday, state and King County health officials reported a possible coronavirus outbreak at the Life Care Center in Kirkland, Wash., a long-term residential facility where more than 50 residents and staff are reportedly ill with symptoms associated with the novel virus. At least two of King County’s six confirmed cases are connected to the Life Care facility: a health-care worker in her 40s and a resident in her 70s.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/coronavirus-may-have-spread-undetected-for-weeks-in-washington-state/2020/03/01/0f292336-5bcc-11ea-9055-5fa12981bbbf_story.htmlReport
Isn’t testing still under the thumb of the CDC? They’re the source for the test kits, and seem to still have pretty strict standards for who qualifies to be tested from that scarce supply.Report
“In New York state, the person who tested positive was only the 32nd test we’ve done in this state. That is a national scandal. They’re testing 10,000 a day in some countries.” – ER Dr. Matt McCarthyReport
Good news. The FDA issued a new policy over the weekend allowing “high-complexity” laboratories—such as certain academic medical centers and other institutions—to develop and operate their own tests.
So, prior to this, the FDA apparently forbade this from happening.
But they’re no longer forbidding it.Report
“to develop and operate their own tests”
WTF? “their own tests”? Did I *read* that right?Report
Well, the next paragraph says:
The policy authorizes CLIA-certified laboratories to immediately field molecular diagnostic tests validated for the disease, known as COVID-19, before any agency review or approval of requests for official Emergency Use Authorization.
So… I don’t know?Report
There already exist tests for this virus, though. Seems like a more effective policy approach would be to, oh, I don’t know, require healthcare providers to use already existing tests on patients with the symptom profile.Report
If you’re hoping to get me to say that the FDA is a net negative and this is yet another example of that, consider it done.
This strikes me as absolutely insane under the best of circumstances and if it’s as bad as the paranoiacs are saying, it’s downright suicidal.Report
it depends on whether the Tests are a Thing or a Process. I don’t know the answer, but the CDC Tests are a definitely a Thing that’s being shipped… presumably at rates insufficient to allow for broad testing.
So… *if* the FDA is allowing sufficiently advanced labs to develop their own process/kits then decentralizing the solution is indeed a better plan than a single bottleneck of just the CDC test kit.
If, that’s what’s going on.Report
“We believe this policy strikes the right balance during this public health emergency,” FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn said in an agency statement.
The right balance between … what exactly?Report
Relevant to the “well DUH, just DEVELOP A NEW TEST, or USE THE ONES WE’VE GOT” yelling:
(all text from here is quoting https://twitter.com/random_eddie/status/1233630049556946946 )
The covid-19 testing saga continues.
Recall from my previous thread that:
. The CDC lab test can be used by others, says the FDA, because it’s an emergency
. The CDC lab test can’t be used, because one of the reagents is apparently faulty
. The hospital labs could make their own tests that are EXACTLY like the CDC’s test, but without the faulty reagents
. But the hospital labs can’t make their own tests, says the FDA, because it’s an emergency.
Well. There’s been some news here, and it’s mixed.
Good news: the CDC tests work well enough to be useful, even with the faulty reagent. There are three reagents in question – two detect Covid-19, and one is a “negative control” which is used to confirm that the test is working correctly. The negative control is the faulty one.
So the CDC has proposed that everyone just go ahead and use the test, but ignore the faulty negative control reagent and just run the test without having a negative control
More good news: the FDA commissioner has said that that’s okay!
Some bad news: the CDC can’t distribute the kits with the instructions “just ignore the negative control” because THAT MAKES IT A DIFFERENT TEST. The FDA has to grant a NEW EUA (emergency use authorization), even though it’s the SAME TEST but with part of it thrown out.
More bad news: The FDA commissioner said that the new test is okay, but that’s NOT THE SAME as the FDA issuing an EUA. The CDC and FDA still have to go through the steps of filling out paperwork and getting it signed off by official channels and so forth. Which means more delay.
More good news: the hospital labs (or, more specifically, at the very least, the lab at the New York State Department of Health) has started producing their own tests using the CDC specs.
More bad news: they still have to get an EUA from the FDA to use their own test.
More good news: they “plan to” seek an EUA.
More bad news: they “plan to”. They haven’t sought it yet.
More bad news: when they “do” seek it, the FDA will still have to actually *issue* it before the lab can use it.
Which means more delay.Report
Excellent article. The trouble with putting bureaucrats, especially government ones, in charge of anything actually important is that it is notoriously difficult to hold them directly responsible for their results. In a competitive marketplace one can readily switch health care providers and those providers have financial incentives to fire those employees who commit gross malpractice, but it’s not nearly so easy to switch governments and there’s often neither incentive nor even ability for the government to fire it’s own incompetents. Then add the fact that government jobs generally appeal more to the mediocre workers who know they wouldn’t get hired in the higher-paying private sector versions of their profession… yeah, putting government in charge is a recipe for pervasive screw ups and corruption followed by cover ups and blame shifting.Report
Dude just stop. For lots of us in government there isn’t a private sector equivalent. And we aren’t mediocre. We just don’t do something you want done. Which is fine. But the rest is bloviating insults and really beneath you. or so I hope.Report
Philip, I work for the government and intend to continue doing so until retirement. I know perfectly well that not all of us have private sector equivalents. I have also spent more than a decade watching those of my peers who do use government service to get some training and experience on their resume and then leave for private sector jobs that pay at least 50% better doing the same thing. I’ve had many, many conversations with coworkers about why they chose this job and whether they’ll stay or go private: the recurring theme among those who aren’t top performers has been a lack of confidence that they could make it in the private sector. Bluntly, the main appeal of government service isn’t altruism and it certainly isn’t competitive pay, it’s benefits and job security. I’ve also seen some absolutely incompetent malcontents who do little work, badly, and yet take more than a year to actually get removed from our rolls. I certainly don’t think everyone in government is mediocre, but it’s not exactly a secret that we struggle to attract and retain top talent. On average, the coworkers I’ve seen leave for the private sector were better at their jobs than the ones who stayed and were promoted. Frankly, the only reason we retained even a few of the best were because they had family with severe medical issues and therefore valued the job security and health benefits more than a higher paycheck elsewhere.
I’ve lived through the pervasive screw ups and subsequent blame shifting. Hell, my introduction to government work was being warned by coworkers that my superiors would try to steal credit for my work and that “Rule #1 is CYA, Cover Your Ass” because credit goes up the chain but shit rolls downhill. Maybe that sounds overly bleak to you. If your experience in government has been otherwise, that’s honestly encouraging to hear. Going by the studies and public data though, mine seems to be fairly common.
“We just don’t do something you want done.” Huh?
Bloviating?
“to talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.” I only wrote one paragraph dude.Report
I sympathise with the critique concerning government inefficiency and corruption. I really do. The chaos outlined by DD above would have been funny in a Monty Pythonesque way if it weren’t millions of people’s lives we were talking about. The point Urusigh makes about the difficulty in holding bureaucrats directly reponsible for their results is absolutely true. As is the quote from the OP ‘Bureaucracies are fallible even when they have the best of intentions, which they usually don’t.’
My personal life has been directly affected by the fallout of large scale government incompetence and corruption.
But what I fail to understand is what libertarians propose as alternative. Let’s use this virus outbreak as example. We all agree that the chaotic good news/bad news roulette outlined above is just… not the way we want it to work next time. So, should we rely on the CDC to say ‘our safety systems for ensuring tests are accurate is not geared towards crisis situations, we better design better protocols for when this happens in future’? Or should we let natural market forces sort it out? I don’t know – perhaps somewhere right now there’s already people seeing the potential for making money in a future virus outbreak, and they are already busy making plans for developing vaccinations quickly so that next time the planet will be saved by entrepreneurial enterprise?
Because the first option just seems a much more dependable strategy to me, even if imperfect.
And it also seems to me the arguments against government officials and bureaurocracy hold just as much for private entities. Corruption? It takes two to tango – every dodgy government contract envolves a corrupt private entity willing to grease the palm. Holding people directly responsible for terrible decisions? Which big decision makers were ever held accountable for the 2008 mortgage crisis, which resulted in public money having to bail out privately made bad decisions and the top brass walking away with their profits? With the Volkswagen Dieselgate – who has been held responsible?
And to my ears the revised statement ‘Corporates are fallible even when they have the best of intentions, which they usually don’t’ ring just as true as the original.Report
Good comment, and I would add the following about the way we compare public entities and private ones.
Markets achieve efficiency by exclusion. The healthcare market engages those with money desiring health care, and those with health care desiring money. No one else exists or needs to.
Yet..there is a vast pool of people who exist, who need healthcare and have no money.
Governments exist in part to provide things which we think should be made universal like transportation, education, and health care.
The cliche about inefficient government arises most often from the fact that we are asking government to do something which by its very nature is not efficient.
In the same way that 24/7/365 emergency response requires that we pay a bunch of firefighters to loaf around watching tv and waiting for the bell to ring, requiring that we deliver mail to every single address no matter how remote, or provide education to every single child no matter what, or health care to every senior citizen no matter how much it costs has “inefficiency” baked right into the program requirements.Report
This is a lot of it. I work in a state court that has some budget problems. One easy solution would be close all the rural courts. They dont’ have a lot of cases and are expensive to run. Of course we’re not hear to make a profit and rural people need access to courts so we keep them open. We also let people who dont’ have money get court access for free…..How are we supposed to increase our stock prices that way!?!?Report
I was also going to add that regarding corruption and outright incompetence, we the citizens often help create that.
If we go around expecting that government services are cesspools of waste and fraud, and refuse to vote out of office those elected officials who wink at it, then waste and fraud isn’t somehow magically inherent in the DNA of government; Its something we choose.Report
If there is a lot of corruption/ graft in gov it’s in lobbying mostly. Some reps get bribed. But the bribes are coming from businesses so it’s hard for me to see how that means market beats gov.
For the most part people working in gov are no different then people in non profits or in business. They do their jobs good or bad depending on their own work ethic, bosses and systems. I see most gov employees where i work put out tons of effort and put up with a rash of shite from their fellow citizens. There are lazy or corrupt people all over. I still see plenty of Wells Fargo banks that are functioning instead of burnt down shells so i’m not sure people in business feel the brunt of consequences.Report
“ every dodgy government contract envolves a corrupt private entity willing to grease the palm.“
That happens because the government grabbed the power to pick winners and losers.Report
When a non-government entity has to award a contract they also have the power to pick the winners and losers.
If it’s a mom-and-pop shop, the owners can ask their useless son-in-law to do the work and it’s their problem if the project goes pear shaped and they loose their own money. I worked in a 25-strong IT company where five of the staff members were close familiy of the two owners. Is that nepotism? Not that I like it, but I agree they have the right to pick the winners and losers because it’s their money.
For listed companies, the providers of the capital are not personally envolved with the awarding of the tender – so formal tender contract rules are put in place to ensure that the contract is awarded to the benefit of the shareholders and not the individuals that have the power to pick the winners and losers.
For government entities, it’s the public that provided the capital via taxes. Same holds – tender process to protect them.
Whenever tender processes are not followed to the detriment of whoever provided the capital, it’s called fraud and corruption. I can’t see the difference in dynamics between a private listed company and a government entity.Report
“When a non-government entity has to award a contract they also have the power to pick the winners and losers.”
ahahahahahaha noooooo, that’s not what this is
this is the government passing a law that says you have to use a specific reagent in your coronavirus test and then it turns out there’s only one company on earth that makes that reagent, and if someone else wants to make reagent that can be used in the test you need FDA approval to do it at all, they aren’t even allowed to make it with a sticker on the side saying “our tests show this is equivalent but it has not been evaluated by the FDA so use at your own risk,” it’s go-to-prison illegal to make Coronavirus Test Kit Stuff and sell it unless the FDA specifically says that you are allowed to do it.
“Not that I like it, but I agree they have the right to pick the winners and losers because it’s their money.”
yeah see if you don’t like what that company does you’re free to not buy their products, or to buy a product of equivalent function from another company
however, it’s literally illegal to make and sell coronavirus test kits unless you’re the company that the FDA has approved to do thisReport
you misundersatnd how government regulation works – which isn’t surprising because we don’t teach it in highschools. There’s no federal law or statute mandating that reagent be used. There may be an FDA regulation that grows out of a general protective statute, but both Congress and the Courts have given the FDA and every other federal agencies wide latitude to implement those statutes as they see fit. As part of that implementing responsibility the FDA develops fine structures (and most of their stuff is civil fines not jail time).
What you are missing however is that
1) that stuff isn’t done in the dark – the FDA issues Federal Register notices on this sort of thing before it issues regulations, holds public hearings and also consults with affected businesses. This is why it takes years to get new and updated regulations from the federal government. ANd
2) the FDA has the authority to waive its own regulations under pretty much any circumstance. Being a federal agency such waivers generally can’t come without White House approval or direction, but legally there is plenty of way they can get around the regs when they need to. Hell the WH has now essentially thrown out two Congressional appropriations – a job Congress gets to do thanks to Article of the Constitution – so the President can build his anti-immigrant wall on our southern border.
Is it fair and proper to ask WHY the FDA hasn’t done this yet? You bet. but lets ask from a realistic understanding of how the system actually works.Report
Trump got in a dispute with one of his advisers (an expert) who kept insisting that it will take a year to develop a vaccine. Trump said “Three months sounds a whole lot better” and the advisor kept repeating that he’d said a vaccine will take a year. Pencil it in. He will stretch it out to a year even if a private company drops a working vaccine on his desk next week. That’s how bureaucracies roll.Report
Here’s a bit of a public service announcement for you americans.
1. Don’t be fooled by the low death rate (should be at about 0.7% outside of china). Even in the best of circumstances where the spread of the virus is as tightly controlled as can be and where the viral load is in general quite low, about 10% of people who contract the virus will end up in the ICU. If the numbers are kept low and the infection spreads at a slow enough pace, you’ll be able to manage. If the numbers get very high, then the viral load increases and the proportion who end up in the ICU can go up to 20% or higher. And when there are not enough beds in the ICU, the fatality rate will go up by an order of magnitude (it should be about 5% in Wuhan at least according to official statistics for whatever that’s worth).
2. COVID eats up hospital beds like nobody’s business. There are only so many isolation wards. In order to contain the disease, people who show any symptoms at all must be isolated in order to prevent other patients from being infected in the case that said patient actually has COVID. But, converting existing wards (especially those with multiple beds) into ad-hoc isolation rooms means beds become unusable
3. Taking quarantine measures and contact tracing is not about stopping the spread of the disease. That is unlikely to happen. It is about slowing it down enough so that people do not get the virus all at once. That would overwhelm the country’s medical resources. If instead the virus spread much more slowly, most developed countries should have the resources to handle the situation.
4. Governments are not incompetent as of apriori necessity. It is partially about institutional quality and partially about whether everyone can get their act together. If incompetence and infighting lead to the decimation of the US population, that is on you (collectively as Americans).
5. Quarantine measures may in some theoretical sense infringe certain civil liberties. Different measures are going to do so to different extents. To the extent that quarantines and movements bans are temporary the infringement might even be minor
6. Lessons might be learned from countries like Singapore which have been more successful in containing the spread of COVID
Now you do the math as to what measures are justifiable in the face of such risksReport
Further knock-on effects starting to show up in health care in the US. Reports of shortages of sterile gowns and biohazard collection bags, the entire US supply of which are apparently made in China in factories that are now closed. Report that a US drug manufacturer has notified the FDA it won’t be able to meet demand for a generic it makes because the source of precursor chemicals is China and the factories are shut.Report
What would an appropriate governmental response to this crisis look like? It would include identifying equipment and supplies required to treat infected people and either finding alternate sources of those products are facilitating a ramp-up of domestic production. Instead, Trump continues to lie about the severity and scope of what we’re dealing with for self-serving political reasons.Report