Who Remembers the Fire?

David Thornton

David Thornton is a freelance writer and professional pilot who has also lived in Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas. He is a graduate of the University of Georgia and Emmanuel College. He is Christian conservative/libertarian who was fortunate enough to have seen Ronald Reagan in person during his formative years. A former contributor to The Resurgent, David now writes for the Racket News with fellow Resurgent alum, Steve Berman, and his personal blog, CaptainKudzu. He currently lives with his wife and daughter near Columbus, Georgia. His son is serving in the US Air Force. You can find him on Twitter @CaptainKudzu and Facebook.

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11 Responses

  1. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    I think that there are some JFK-being-blown-away level issues being decided right now. Will we let Vladimir Putin dismantle Europe piece by piece? Will we let Islamic radicals slaughter peopled they assume to be Jewish? Should we let China have its way with Taiwan? Will we elect a man who may well dismantle more than 200 years of mostly-peaceful constitutional government?

    What would a 2014 list of questions look like?

    Let’s say that we want to discuss when the US pulled out of Afghanistan. How would we frame it?

    “Are we really going to put the Taliban back in power, returning them to a ‘bombing the Bamiyan Buddhas’ status quo?”
    And now it’s a few years after the pullout. Was the pullout a catastrophe? Was it a “what did you expect?” kind of collapse? Do we immediately want to start defending Joe Biden right now from this, seriously, unfair attack on his presidency?

    Because I look at your questions and just see “trouble in the Suez” three times and, maybe, one thing worth mentioning in a song a decade hence.Report

  2. DensityDuck
    Ignored
    says:

    1) I always wondered what city he had in mind when he sang about how there was “trouble in the sewers”.

    2) I always thought “Space Monkey Mafia” would be a good name for a Billy Joel tribute act.Report

  3. Damon
    Ignored
    says:

    “Most of the stuff that we sit online and argue about is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Even when the issue is an important one, our internet discussions won’t affect the outcome.”

    Yep, that pretty much defines this site.

    “What’s more, even if you can win over a voter, their vote, especially in a presidential election, doesn’t really matter. If you don’t live in a swing state, it really doesn’t matter who you vote for.” The reason I basically have no interest in politics anymore, and why I stopped voting.Report

  4. North
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a question: The new version of We Didn’t Start the fire is chronologically disjointed- to make it rhyme and scan they leap around in time back and forth for issues which bothers me enormously. Is the original also chronologically disjointed? I feel like the issues it rhymes off are, more or less, in order at least by decade.Report

  5. John Puccio
    Ignored
    says:

    On a long enough time line, nearly everything is forgotten by the vast majority of people.

    In 100 years the JFK assassination will be regarded much closer to McKinley’s than Lincoln’s.

    Chuck Klosterman made the argument in one of his books that in 200 years, if “Rock N Roll” is even remembered, it will be associated with Elvis and/or the Beatles and basically no one else. Only a subculture of enthusiasts will be able to dive much deeper than that. Similar to how marches are synonymous with John Philip Sousa almost exclusively (and he only died in 1932!).Report

    • Jaybird in reply to John Puccio
      Ignored
      says:

      After the Berlin Wall fell, Roger Waters did a concert of The Wall at the site of The Wall and I thought that that was so cool and historic and how people would be talking about that for decades.

      People don’t even listen to the original album anymore.

      Hell, it was one of my favorite albums for years and I haven’t even listened to so much as Comfortably Numb since before the pandemic.Report

  6. Pinky
    Ignored
    says:

    Many years ago, I read a book entitled “The Causes of The Civil War”. It was interesting for several reasons, one of them being the way it implicitly demonstrated that historians go through phases, or maybe even fashions. I’d been vaguely aware of this before. When I grew up, even though there were probably very few actual communists, there was a lot of dialectical materialism in the air. I was taught that the North and South had different economic systems, and that made conflict inevitable. This wasn’t the only thing I was taught, but it was clear that if you wanted to move beyond the names and dates and really understand history, this was the new approach you were supposed to take.

    If historians can’t be trusted to filter out historical noise, we can’t be sure that they’re converging on historical accuracy. And it casts doubt on the whole idea of expertise.

    I still value knowledge and recognize the importance of impersonal forces and ideas, but I also believe in the impact of individuals and key moments. It’s not hard to see why the Soviet system fell, but the trends behind the fall were there for a long time. There are breakpoints in history, and we usually can’t predict them. Nineteen hijackers or six Supreme Court justices can change the course of events. So, how many “small” events, even forgotten ones, are really bigger than we realize? How many daily internet debates are about important things? You can’t win history if you don’t play.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky
      Ignored
      says:

      Basically, yeah, that last paragraph. It’s a really good thought, in the OP and echoed here, that so many of the things that seem to explode into our brains are evanescent and ultimately not particularly consequential. A good reminder of that. Looking at the Fallout Boy lyrics (I was unaware this song existed at all until today) I see things like:

      Sandy Hook, Columbine, Sandra Bland and Tamir Rice
      ISIS, LeBron James, Shinzo Abe blown away
      Meghan Markle, George Floyd, Burj Khalifa, Metroid
      Fermi paradox, Venus and Serena
      Oh-oh-oh, Michael Jordan, 23, YouTube killed MTV
      SpongeBob, Golden State Killer got caught
      Michael Jordan, 45, Woodstock ’99
      Keaton, Batman, Bush v. Gore, I can’t take it anymore

      Some of this is significant (“Sandy Hook, Columbine”), some of it actually might not be but I want it to be (“Michael Jordan, 23, YouTube killed MTV”), and some of it’s obviously trivial (“Michael Jordan, 45, Woodstock ’99”). How much impact has the relatively recent assassination of Shinzo Abe had on us? Damn near none, so far as I can tell.

      But we still have to sort through it all and sift what’s important from what isn’t, and that isn’t always easy. Especially in a world as noisy as ours.Report

      • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko
        Ignored
        says:

        I don’t think you caught my meaning. I believe that there’s substance behind some of these arguments we dismiss as trivial, even if they follow the topic of the day.

        About 10 days ago, The Daily Wire and Candace Owens parted company. Ben Shapiro has been passionate in his support of Israel, and Candace has been aggressively critical. She at least flirted with anti-Semitism, depending on how you interpret tweets. At one point she posted “Christ is King”. It was clear the situation couldn’t continue.

        Andrew Klavan was the first of the Daily Wire hosts to have a show after the announcement of the parting (it’s still not clear if she was fired or quit). He spoke candidly and off-script as a Jew and a Christian, as a friend of Candace and of Ben. Some of his comments were controversial, and he clarified them on his show a week later. But the whole thing resulted in some theological debates on the right during Holy Week. Is it ever wrong to say “Christ is King”? Is it anti-Semitic? Has G-d ended His covenant with the Jews? Have the Jews? And to the core of the matter: who is to be saved? What must a person do to attain heaven?

        I’m not going to say that all the discussions have been thoughtful or respectful. But they’re important. It’s not good if the very people debating these things have written them off as trivial. I don’t think I’m going to change many opinions here (or elsewhere) but it’s important that we all try. Arendt wrote that “a mixture of gullibility and cynicism is prevalent in all ranks of totalitarian movements, and the higher the rank the more cynicism weighs down gullibility”. We internet chatterers need to avoid cynicism, because we’re already somewhat gullible. So while we don’t have to debate every story of the day, we need to take the meaning of them seriously.Report

        • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky
          Ignored
          says:

          Yeah, that’s a very different meaning than I thought at first read. Apologies for mistaking your message. I’ll take to heart that maybe there are levels to seemingly superficial things that can turn deep. Discovering heretofore-unseen levels of understanding is one of the interesting things that can happen when people of different perspectives and opinions interact. So, cheers!Report

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