Should United States v Donald J Trump Be Televised?

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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46 Responses

  1. Marchmaine says:

    On the one hand I agree, on the other I disagree.
    ~ The Internet

    If we’re going to get a Code Red trial, then yes… if we’re going to get an OJ trial, then no.Report

  2. LeeEsq says:

    Neither is going to happen. Congress passing an exception might happen if the Republicans really seem to believe that Trump is charismatic enough that an audience could help and the Democratic Party believes he will be exposed to the wind.Report

  3. CJColucci says:

    I tried a televised high-profile civil case in 1993, back when that was allowed. (Sadly, when my mother-in-law tried to tape it, I ended up with a shelf full of All My Children and other soaps.) It had genuine potential to be a circus, but it wasn’t. I can’t speak for my adversary, who seemed to act the same way he acted when not on television, but I know I was too focused on the matter at hand even to think about being on TV. The judge hated us, which several people noticed from watching the case on TV, but when they asked me about it I told them that being on TV seemed to keep him in bounds.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to CJColucci says:

      …but I know I was too focused on the matter at hand even to think about being on TV.

      When I was on the budget staff for the Colorado legislature, every meeting of the Joint Budget Committee had live streaming audio. You had to learn to not think about the microphone in front of you, or you couldn’t juggle all of the details of what you were trying to do.Report

  4. LeeEsq says:

    This trial should be televised though. Trump attempted to stage a coup. This is a really big thing. The political desires of the majority of voters on who they wanted to be President was almost subverted.Report

  5. InMD says:

    It’s a terrible idea especially since the vast, vast majority of trials are not televised. Making an exception would have Trump play to the television audience and only deepen the possibility of another crisis. It would undermine the system, not solidify it. If anyone wants to review the transcripts those should of course be available as normal as should witnesses be permitted to attend in person, again, in accordance with normal rules.Report

    • InMD in reply to InMD says:

      Just to add, people keep thinking putting Trump on tv will cause him to be damage himself politically. It fails every time.Report

      • LeeEsq in reply to InMD says:

        It depends on how you put him on TV. When you don’t give him an audience to play too or don’t let him play to the audience, it doesn’t work.Report

        • Dark Matter in reply to LeeEsq says:

          He’s been on TV before, even had his own show. Most Lawyers for the DoJ have not. Likely the Judge has not.

          Putting him into a situation where he has more practical experience than everyone else in the room combined has expected outcomes.

          He uses the forum to generate PR for his Presidential Run. He also delays the Court Case so it doesn’t end before he becomes President.

          After he becomes President he… pardons himself? Fires everyone in the DoJ who is involved?

          Leave the Court Room officials inside their comfort zone.Report

          • CJColucci in reply to Dark Matter says:

            As someone who has been there, I doubt that the DOJ lawyers will have trouble working on TV. A lawyer trying a case and doing it right is too intensely focused on the task at hand to be thrown off stride by TV cameras.
            Trump’s TV experience, on the other hand, will be of very little help where he is unscripted and doesn’t set the rules of engagement.Report

          • DavidTC in reply to Dark Matter says:

            He’s been on TV before, even had his own show.

            A TV show that they had to massively edit because he was so random and haphazard. He’d just say things, make random decisions, and they’d have to glue together out-of-context snippits that at least vaguely implied what he said made sense.

            Also, and perhaps more importantly: Defendants do not actually notable talk in trial. Literally, they did not generally utter a single word except their plea and maybe one or two housekeeping statements. Lawyers talk, not defendants.

            The only exception is if Trump chooses to take the stand, which would be _hilariously stupid_ of him, I can’t even emphasis how stupid that would be. And honestly, the fact it’s on TV would make him more likely to do that, which in turn would make it more likely he’d incriminate himself and lose his case.Report

            • CJColucci in reply to DavidTC says:

              A much overlooked point. The only time Trump himself is going to talk is when he takes the stand. (I say “when” because any competent lawyer would tell him not to take the stand. Therefore, he will do the opposite.) The rest of the talk will be by lawyers and prosecution witnesses. It is unlikely that there will be any defensed witnesses of an consequence.Report

              • Dark Matter in reply to CJColucci says:

                I’d love to hear Pence talk. Might lift his standing.

                Not sure if he counts as a witness for the defense or not. Certainly Trump’s lawyer is trying to claim him.Report

              • CJColucci in reply to Dark Matter says:

                I’d love to hear Pence talk too. I think the prosecution will call him and the defense will try to make hay on cross-examination rather than risk calling him themselves. Unless they are better than I think, it won’t help much.

                But lift Pence’s standing with whom? After years of shameless pandering, he had a brief, glorious moment when he simulated being a vertebrate, and it cost him dearly. He has been flirting with doing it again, but it won’t help him with the voters he needs and everyone else will write it off as the soft bigotry of low expectations.Report

        • InMD in reply to LeeEsq says:

          I don’t think it matters. Even if the proceedings themselves were kept under control you’d be producing nightly content for the Trump show, for him and his sycophants to spin to their hearts content. There is no upside.Report

          • Marchmaine in reply to InMD says:

            Agreed. Absent some sort of Colonel Jessup meltdown hard to see an upside.Report

            • InMD in reply to Marchmaine says:

              Even that would be spun in some kind of positive way. To tie it to a previous post, we’d have thoughtful, thorough, and technically accurate 2,000 word explainers from Ken White versus the ape like yodeling of cretin social media and cable news. It’s obvious who would benefit.Report

  6. Pinky says:

    Of all the charges, these seem to be the most political rather than substantial. Don’t shine a light on what looks like a show trial unless you’re sure it’s not a show trial.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

      So you think it’s fine to conspire to overturn an election you lost?

      Fascinating.Report

      • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

        I don’t think it’s fine to conspire to overturn an election. I don’t think he did conspire to overturn an election. I don’t think what he did was fine. I don’t know that what he did was illegal.Report

        • DavidTC in reply to Pinky says:

          Have you read the indictment?Report

          • Pinky in reply to DavidTC says:

            I read it over, which is to say, IANAL and I know I’m not going to get as much out of it as others might. It looks like a recap of events as they happened, events which we knew about as they happened, but with the words “co-conspirator” and “fraudulent” in place of “advisor” and “stupid”. I don’t see anything in it that’s new or that would persuade anyone that crimes did or didn’t happen.Report

        • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

          Just curious – what would you want to see in terms of evidence to believe he did illegal things?Report

          • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

            It’s not the evidence, it’s the lack of clear crimes.Report

            • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

              So you don’t believe it’s crime to try and stop ballot counting? Fascinating.Report

              • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

                Give me the specific situation and the specific crime.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Pinky says:

                “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?”Report

              • Pinky in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

                That quote is the opposite of what I’m saying. The Democratic side *is* saying that though. They’ve decided who they want to get rid of and they don’t care how.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Pinky says:

                Trump’s claim of innocence has exactly that ring.Report

              • Pinky in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

                Weird. The only similarity I see is that Henry II and Trump both don’t speak contemporary English. The pivotal difference I see between the two is that when Trump tried to push through his reelection claims, people stumbled over themselves in a mad rush to say no and exit the room.

                If Trump had actually pursued “lock her up”, that would have been like Henry. Biden pursuing “lock him up” has been like Henry. Trump seems more like James II.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Pinky says:

                There is the not so small matter of January 6, which is the direct result of DJT’s words that morning. Not to mention more than a few slates of fake electors. The man’s finger was definitely in this pie, and he ought to answer for why it was in there.Report

              • Ny8k in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

                20 Years Federal PrisonReport

              • Pinky in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

                So are you saying that it’s the fact that Trump didn’t do anything but complain that reminded you of Henry II?Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Pinky says:

                Think of Mike Pence (LOL) as Thomas a Becket.Report

              • DavidTC in reply to Pinky says:

                18 U.S.C. § 1512 (c) Whoever corruptly–

                (2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

                They’ve already convicted Jan 6th people for exactly this, aka, they’ve already determined that what was going on was an official proceeding and that the Jan 6th people did attempt to impede it.

                They not only charged Trump with that, they charged him with conspiracy to do to that., 1512(k), which merely requires he planned it out with someone (Which they provide a lot of evidence for) and did one overt act to further it.Report

              • Pinky in reply to DavidTC says:

                What is the evidence that he planned the obstruction – which started, specifically, when the protestors started to enter the Capitol? Or is there a different obstruction you’re talking about?Report

              • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

                So you didn’t actually read all 45 pages of the indictment? Its all laid out there in chronological order. . .Report

              • DavidTC in reply to Pinky says:

                What is the evidence that he planned the obstruction – which started, specifically, when the protestors started to enter the Capitol?

                That’s when the _actual_ impediment stated, but that was the conspiracy’s plan b, the first plan was to cause Pence to not present the result.

                And to quote the indictment: The Defendant and his co-conspirators committed one or more of the acts to effect the object of the conspiracy in Paragraphs 13,15-16, 18-22, 24, 26, 28, 30-33, 35, 37-39,41, 43-44, 46, 50, 52, 54, 56, 57-56, 67, 71-75, 78-82, 84, 85, 87-97, 99-100, 102-104, 111, 114, 116, 118-119, 122.

                But let me guess: You’re someone who thinks inventing fake electors and demanding the VP break the law might somehow be legal?

                Then let me assure you, even if we pretend that is true, that Trump’s clearly illegal plan for Pence was legal…everything starting at 87 onward in that list is about the backup plan of mob violence, when it became clear Pence would not go along with it. That was the entire purpose of gathering supporters in DC, to either threaten Pence into going along with it (Which, regardless of whether or not he had the legal right to not present the result, I think we can all agree it is not legal to _threaten_ him into not doing that.) or cause violence in the streets.

                Again: Trump does not actually have to have done anything criminal. All he has to do is have an understanding with others that crimes are going to happen, and do at least one overt action to help them along.

                And the easiest overt act to show is the constant lies by Trump about how Pence _was_ going to object to to the votes, despite the fact that Pence had told him, repeatedly, point blank, that he wouldn’t.

                There seems no logic to do that besides making the crowds angry, which, incidentally, Trump is quoted as saying they already would be the day before.Report

              • Fast Ism in reply to Philip H says:

                I suppose you believe that we ought to haul everyone to gaol who stopped an Election Judge from entering the ballot counting rooms…

                NO? So much for democracy.

                Do you honestly think I should vote for election judge this year, considering the way the last one was treated?

                Barred from the ballot room, and I’m supposed to vote a new one? Dems aren’t even running an election Judge this year.Report