Dropping the Atomic Bombs Was Good, Actually

Mike Coté

Mike Coté is a writer and podcaster focusing on history, Great Power rivalry, and geopolitics. He has a Master’s degree in European history, and is working on a book about the Anglo-German economic and strategic rivalry before World War I. He writes for National Review, Providence Magazine, and The Federalist, hosts the Rational Policy podcast, and can be found on Twitter @ratlpolicy.

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16 Responses

  1. PD Shaw says:

    In 1945 my Grandfather was in the U.S. Army moving across China towards Shanghai with the understanding his unit would be engaged in combat operations to take the city or for the invasion of Japan. Previously he had mainly been involved in helping transport supplies from India/Burma to Kunming for the Chinese Army. He was 36 years old office clerk with two children, the result of the draft needing to move up the age ladder.

    The Japanese were withdrawing and concentrating in the port cities which was imperative to prevent the Allies from getting more and better supplies to the Chinese National Army as well as to supply the homeland from any blockade. Shanghai, an international city, before the Japanese occupation, had tens of thousands of Americans, British, Dutch and Jews in concentration camps. These were suspect nationalities that would have probably been eliminated for administrative convenience if the city came under attack. But mostly wars in concentrated population centers have the most horrific body counts.Report

  2. CJColucci says:

    My father had an interesting take. In his view, the moral line had been crossed with mass bombing of civilian targets, Dresden, Tokyo, etc. There was no real moral difference between dropping hundreds of conventional bombs powered by TNT or incendiaries and dropping a single bomb powered by uranium.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to CJColucci says:

      He was right. Dresden’s fate was not materially different from Nagasaki’s just because one used newer destructive technology.

      But this begs the question: was it necessary to firebomb Dresden and Tokyo? The ghastly calculus of war makes that answer murky, at least to me. A utilitarian-consequentialist analysis as argued in the OP is a indispensable part of such decision-making, but are there any limits to it? Such reasoning absent checks from other ways of thinking can easily justify torture, among other atrocities.

      Now, the “total war involves destroying civilian-looking things” mode of thought goes back much further than the Great War of a century ago. Scipio salted the farmlands of Carthage for this reason — and after Hannibal had spent a decade burning Italian fields.

      And so too with the “ends justify the means” rationale argued here. This is not a new debate, so it is false to call it “presentism.” Whether ends justify means is a philosoohical conundrem, manifesting in decisions to commit wartime atrocities or not, going back throughout recorded history. I have no problem with “presentism” because I say the moral questions we confront today are different from the ones that confronted Pericles and Xerxes (who and what to sacrifice to attain victory and prosperity thereafter), or Qin and Yin Zeng (is attaining peace worth the deliberate starvation of non-combatants and is preserving peace worth the eradication of competing cultures).

      It is also strange indeed to hear from a conservative writer that morality is fluid over time. We use different tools to make war these days, but this is surely not sufficient reason to change our morals.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Burt Likko says:

        As I said below, there is a lot to chew on regarding our own behavior in our own time, that can be informed by looking backward.

        Some have argued that sanctions are a form of “burning the fields” by attempting to leverage the impoverishment of civilians to exert pressure on the government.

        Even with precision guided weapons, we still kill a lot of civilians and it isn’t always clear if any of it is necessary, not to mention various bargains with various devils around the world as part of our overall geopolitical strategy.
        The point isn’t to compress all acts into indistinguishability, but to show that all warfighting involves all sorts of ugly compromises and it is imperative to continually check ourselves to make sure we haven’t become blind.Report

    • North in reply to CJColucci says:

      I’d say his take is pretty much the right one.Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to CJColucci says:

      In 1937 the Spanish Fascists bombed the town of Guernica, killing about 136 people, and a cow.

      This was considered so shocking at the time Picasso used it as the subject of a painting which is considered a masterpiece documenting the horrors of war.

      Only a couple years later, the Allies were vaporizing almost a thousand times that many in a single day, with barely a shrug.

      As I’ve said before, the value of history isn’t to serve as a fingerpointing morality tale, but as a way of learning about human nature, and by implication, our own actions.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to Chip Daniels says:

        In 1937-38 Stalin had his great purge and murdered between 700,000 and 1,200,000 people.

        Being shocked at the deaths in one bombing speaks of the speaker and how the west was determined to think only good things of Communism.Report

  3. Jaybird says:

    In one of my philosophy courses back in… 1994?, we had a WWII vet auditing the course with us. The topic of the use of the Atomic Bomb came up and I very much remember a whole bunch of 20-year-olds explaining to the WWII vet that the use of the bomb was *WRONG* and he explained to them that he fought in the Pacific and he was there and the bomb was good, actually.

    The 20-year-olds couldn’t believe how stone-headed the guy was on this point.Report

    • KenB in reply to Jaybird says:

      He had direct experience that they lacked, but they, though youthfully overconfident, had the received wisdom distilled from higher-level retrospective analysis that he might have dismissed or ignored because of his experience. Can’t say either definitively has the higher ground.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to KenB says:

        He could very easily remember being 20ish and so that colored how he was communicating with everybody else.

        Very few in the room could, apparently, imagine being 20ish in any decade other than the 90’s.Report

        • KenB in reply to Jaybird says:

          it would’ve been a great experience. When I was in college (following the usual path of going right after high school), I was a little in awe of the older students who had lived some life first. They were generally much more outspoken and more interesting things to say about the material and the world.

          I gently suggested to my kids to consider working a couple years before going to college, but they were determined to do what all their friends were doing. As was I at the same age.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to KenB says:

        My father also served in the Pacific in WWII and had the same experience and support of the bombing for the same reasons.

        Having said that…

        Those same experiences also led them to strongly support the Japanese internment, and their rationale was, wait for it…”You can’t judge us you weren’t there.”

        Direct experience is good, but sometimes blinds us.Report

    • InMD in reply to Jaybird says:

      My grandfather was in the infantry and was I believe in 7 landings in the Pacific, including with one of the US Army regiments that went with the marines at Guadalcanal. He had no issues with using the a-bombs, but he wouldn’t.

      From my personal perspective I think the operative question is did it restore peace with net less destruction and loss of life than might otherwise have happened. Per St. Augustine that consideration is important to the just war analysis, and I think weighs pretty heavily in favor of the decision to use them.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird says:

      When I was getting my master of public policy degree in the naughts there were two of us that were old enough to have one foot stuck in the 1960s and a bunch of 20-somethings. One evening in one of the classes it became obvious how many civil liberties the 20-somethings were willing to give up because they thought it would get them security from terrorists. Myself and the other oldster just blew up.Report

  4. LeeEsq says:

    The debates on the atomic bomb generally depend on how nuts you thought the Japanese Imperial Army was. People who think that they would have rather faced a full on invasion of the home islands and all the brutality that this would entail think dropping the A bombs was moral. People who believe that the Japanese military leadership was for some reason more rational and would have surrendered just about any day now believe it is immoral.Report

  5. InMD says:

    I think it’s worth throwing into this discussion that the Japanese had their own nuclear weapons program. My understanding is that the hindsight consensus is that the Japanese program was not that far along but there are those that dispute that conclusion. The decision makers in the US were of course working with imperfect knowledge but it’s worth considering how the possibility of Japan unleashing a bomb on the invasion force would have factored into their thinking.Report