Mini-Throughput: The Hope of Humping Humpback Whales

Michael Siegel

Michael Siegel is an astronomer living in Pennsylvania. He blogs at his own site, and has written a novel.

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27 Responses

  1. Oscar Gordon says:

    A $1000 bet that you win nets you $576? What happened to the rest of it?Report

  2. Chip Daniels says:

    The flip side of this is that whales are not endangered anymore because of the doom-mongering. The doom-mongering about the whales was correct, that if nothing were done they very well might have become extinct.

    The other observation is that the doom-mongering about jobs and economic chaos never came to pass.
    The whaling ban didn’t destroy Japan’s economy, the clean air laws didn’t destroy America’s auto industry, and in fact the modern versions of the famous American muscle cars are faster and more fun to drive than their originals.Report

    • Yep. Very good points. The link to the study on how environmental progress and economic progress go together is really great on this point.Report

    • …and in fact the modern versions of the famous American muscle cars are faster and more fun to drive than their originals.

      Unless all you were interested in was driving in a nearly straight line, my Honda Fit is more fun to drive than the original muscle cars.Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to Michael Cain says:

        I got my JATO unit!Report

        • Many years ago, when I was young and foolish and had gone to work at Bell Labs so had enough money to buy a new car for the first time, I got a Nissan 280ZX. Bell Labs Holmdel was in the midst of adding a huge number of young engineers, so there were lots of new cars. Also an unofficial thing called the Century Club. Qualification for membership was making it up to 100 mph on the straight part of the entry drive, a bit over a quarter mile, then getting around the relatively tight curve onto the ring road. If you didn’t make the curve you ended up in one of the cooling ponds.

          I could do it because the ZX could come out of the entry curve onto the straight at 50+, handle the exit curve at similar speed, and the red line was way up there for the day. One of my housemates could do it because he had a Mustang Mach One with a big V8 that he and his brother had “improved” — nitrous was involved. Our other housemate was constantly frustrated that he had bought a Camero but went cheap on the engine and had neither my handling or the Mustang’s raw horsepower.

          Shortly after my housemate and I had qualified, attempts became a firing offense. Management got tired of tow trucks hauling vehicles out of the cooling pond.Report

          • Oscar Gordon in reply to Michael Cain says:

            The glorious bit is that management actually tolerated more than one hauling before putting the kibosh on it.Report

            • Bell Labs was always… odd. Recall that the CEO of the premier industrial laboratory in the US would appear before some Congressional committee, advising them on actual important policy, and when asked to state his name, company, and position for the record, would respond with, “Ian Ross*, Bell Telephone Laboratories, Member of Technical Staff.” Because there were no official titles higher than MTS. Some MTS were simply stuck having to do management tasks at some level on a temporary basis.

              * One morning I woke up and went to work because a technical problem was nagging at me and it was clear I wasn’t going to go back to sleep. The sun was just getting up and I was wandering around the outside “skin” of the Holmdel building. Went around a corner and damned near walked right over Ian. Who asked what I was working on, listened, asked me to go into one of the conference rooms so I could write out some of the math. Then pulled a card out of the folio he was carrying and said, “If you want an informed opinion, here’s someone who might help. Feel free to drop my name.” It was a card from one of the demigods in the field.Report

              • Oscar Gordon in reply to Michael Cain says:

                I wonder how many such places with that kind of leadership are left?Report

              • DensityDuck in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

                It ain’t the leadership, it’s the funding, and the fact that AT&T having a total monopoly on telecommunications meant they could afford to just get a bunch of smart people and have them play. (Sort of what Google used to do, back before they pivoted to being an advertising company.)

                It was always interesting seeing how much of AT&T’s management was devoted to placating government fears of monopolistic abuse. Like, if you described the modern concerns about “deplatforming” and Twitter banning people to a mid-century AT&T executive they would ask how the hell Twitter was even allowed to operate, why the government hadn’t just walked in and broken them up.Report

              • It ain’t the leadership, it’s the funding…

                Certainly a big piece. When I started, the answer to the question “Where does the Labs get its budget?” was that every phone customer in the Bell System kicked in about a dime per month. Except in Maine, where the PUC never allowed the Labs expense to be included in the rate base.Report

              • DensityDuck in reply to Michael Cain says:

                What I mean, though, is that it wasn’t so much “what is the source of the money”, it’s “is the company willing to spend money this way“.

                I recently read a history of Bell Labs, and they pointed out just how much of the research the Labs did had no particular business-related goal, no specific technology or process that it was expected to enable, it was just “I find this curious, let’s investigate it” or “maybe I could build a thing that does something interesting”. And if you have a monopoly, if you don’t have to worry about competitors eating your lunch, if you aren’t hyper-focused on Zero Wasted Effort and Always Be Improving, you can justify spending money on things like that.Report

              • Speaking from the inside, Research always got too much credit (and they knew it, too). Development was always the lion’s share of the employees (and the patents). Systems Engineering was the polyglot where they stuck things that didn’t fit well anywhere else. (Full disclosure: I was in Systems Engineering and was considered odd even by their standards.)

                So too the “pure research” thing. The transistor people were trying to develop a very specific widget — a voltage-controlled resistor. (They failed, but found something almost as useful.) Penzias and Wilson were trying to solve a very specific field problem — why is the noise floor on microwave signals so damned high.) When what would be the Unix folks were pulled off of Multics at MIT and started rebuilding some of the best ideas, the forward-lookers elsewhere already knew that we needed lots of small computers, not more mainframes.Report

              • DensityDuck in reply to Michael Cain says:

                And the book did make much of how the initial version of the transistor was impossible to produce at scale, and it was someone else’s completely different take on the idea that ended up being used; albeit the book presented this as “the ACTUAL INVENTOR didn’t get as much recognition because SOME OTHER DUDE wanted to STEAL ALL THE CREDIT FOR HIMSELF”…Report

              • None. Different pace, different business models. I got in on the tail end of the Bell Labs of song and legend*. Six years after I started the federal government made its continued existence as that kind of company untenable.

                * My wife and I ran a trip for the Holmdel Ski Club one weekend. On the bus we had a Nobel Physics winner, one of the people who wrote a bunch of the utility programs that made Unix what it was, and a person from the group that built the first cellular system with reliable handoff between cells.Report

  3. Brandon Berg says:

    And unless someone out there really misses whalebone corsets, we sometimes don’t even have to pay that big an economic price.

    I’d say this is backwards. The more the products of a particular species are valued, the more economic value is gained by conserving the population of that animal.

    Putting whales aside, consider the Pacific bluefin tuna. The loss of this species wouldn’t result in a depression or anything, but it would still be a tremendous loss in terms of economic value to the people of Japan (among others). Limiting overfishing to allow stocks to recover has positive economic value.Report

    • Fishing quotas are turning out to be a huge success. If you are guaranteed X% of the catch, that means you have a huge interest in making sure that the catch grows every year.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Brandon Berg says:

      This is true, if the international community is willing to enact and enforce controls.

      If, for instance, everybody but China is willing to limit the catch of Bluefin Tuna, and China either fishes to depletion in their own waters and international waters, then it doesn’t much matter what conservation efforts are in place.

      Unless you are willing to start seizing and/or sinking Chinese fishing vessels.Report

    • What, have laws that interfere with the free market?Report

  4. Kazzy says:

    Just out or curiosity, how do we monitor the populations of sea creatures? It seems hard enough to do on land… how the hell do you do it in the ocean?

    I heard an interview with the maker of the film “Seaspiracy”. I know it is getting rave reviews but hearing him talk gave me pause as it seems like it is likely a piece of doom-mongering. I’ll reserve final judgement until I watch it and maybe read some other perspectives on the film and the issue it explores.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Kazzy says:

      Glad you asked. Depends on the sea creature.

      Whales, and pinnipeds like sea lions and seals are done with direct visual counts, combined with some very well studied statistical modeling. North Atlantic Right Whales have been easy – with numbers in the hundreds and dedicated whale counting cruises we used to actually count them all. Orcas in Puget Sound are routine photographed, because it turns out their fins are unique to each animal. Like a finger print. so doing computed aided photo matching year over year makes it relatively easy.

      Fish are a bit tougher. Pacific salmon are counted stream side as they return to spawn and then those counts are fed into well worn population models to get a final count. Salmon also get counted in streams as they out migrate as juveniles. All other commercially important fish are either trawled, or trapped for initial counts, supplemented with catch records that commercial fishermen have to supply as a condition of licensure.

      Marine invertebrates are generally not counted, unless they are also commercially harvested. Plankton can be counted under microscopes, but it’s nowhere enough by volume to make any reliable estimate. Interestingly, there’s a lot of machine learning/AI development focused on this topic, as training computers to pick out organisms reliably from video images may well make all our counting more accurate.

      As to “Seaspiracy” … that’s such a bad film. Statistically wrong, factually misleading, and generally panned by everyone working or adjacent to the ocean sciences.

      https://www.vox.com/2021/4/13/22380637/seaspiracy-netflix-fact-check-fishing-ocean-plastic-veganism-vegetarianismReport

  5. I still can’t figure out who wants to hump the whales.Report