The Real ScamDemic

Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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48 Responses

  1. Damon says:

    I got a scam email a while back that said that’s my web camera had been hacked and I’d been “recording doing some freaky stuff and was going to be sent to all my contacts if I didn’t send money.” Crazy thing was that I had just bought a web cam a few weeks back, so I was like…..”ahhhhh wtf?” Then I realized it was a scam.

    Bastards. The nice thing was that I got about 3 of these emails and they stopped.Report

  2. Dark Matter says:

    Sorry for your in-law’s loss.

    You’re not done dealing with this. She’s now on a list of victims, i.e. “people who are known to be likely to fall for this sort of thing”.

    They and/or others like them, will be back in a few months and a few years. And they’ll be back with more personal details and more convincing arguments because it’s worth their time to research that now.

    Scammers can up their game, they just normally and deliberately make these arguments easy to see through because they don’t want to deal with anyone who isn’t susceptible.Report

  3. fillyjonk says:

    Ugh. Calling them “earthworm slime” is an insult to earthworms, which actually serve a purpose in the ecosystem.

    Back before I got caller ID, I would get a few calls like this. If I was fairly sure it was a person at the other end, I’d ask them: do your loved ones know you lie for a living? Do they know you are trying to scam people? I would get cursed out and hung up on but it made me feel a little better.

    But yeah. Once or twice my mom – who is pretty smart and clever, but is 84 and from a less-cynical generation than mine, calls me up about “hey I got this call, do you think it could be legit in any way?” and my answer is always no. Most recently it was someone claiming her energy provider had been changed or some such and that she needed to call such and such a number to change back. I told her to look up the actual number of her energy provider and call them and tell them. Turns out it was a scam going ’round, and the people ask for bank details to set up “automatic payment” of your bills when you call. The energy provider knew all about it. (I would argue they should have included a note warning of it in the bills, but I don’t run the show)

    I dunno what we can do about these people. Obviously they fear no law, it’s playing whack-a-mole to take them down. Best a person can do is not answer the phone, but as you pointed out, in the age of COVID and sloppy rollouts of vaccine, that doesn’t work either.Report

  4. Oscar Gordon says:

    Sorry your MIL had to go through that. These scammers are scum.Report

  5. Jaybird says:

    This strikes me as one of things we have law enforcement for.

    How come so many of our institutions are powerless in the face of this sort of thing?

    I get inundated with scams in any given week. A phone call that tells me that my Social Security number has been hacked. A phone call that tells me that my Amazon account has been stolen. A phone call trying to reach the vehicle owner.

    Apparently we’re powerless to deal with this.

    At Christmas, I went into the Safeway to buy a bunch of Amazon cards instead of Christmas presents and the checker asked me if I was using them to pay off a phone scammer. I laughed and said “no, no… they’re actual presents.”

    But now I realize that the checker asking me that was the line of defense between the gift card buyers and the scammers.

    That’s it.Report

    • Em Carpenter in reply to Jaybird says:

      I do wish someone had asked her why she was buying multiple $500 gift cards, but I think she would not have been forthcoming. Not only that, but they kept her on the phone while she made the purchases and forbade her from telling anyone about the “confidential matter.”Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to Em Carpenter says:

        It ain’t their money she’s spendin’, it ain’t goin’ to them, and they ain’t bein’ paid to care. And they certainly ain’t bein’ paid enough to get into it with some Karen, especially when you know the boss is gonna roll over for her and probably fire you (and give her the gift card for free.)Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Jaybird says:

      They are powerless because the scammers are largely foreign based. Hard to get Russian police to care about your scammed MIL.Report

      • Even in-country, technically trivial to establish a connection over the internet to hacked devices that can place phone calls. As I recall, the infamous “Rachel, from cardholder services” was a purely US scam that the FCC and FTC finally managed to trace.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Jaybird says:

      “Well, how do we stop it?”
      “Phone tapping to monitor conversations for keywords.”
      “OH GOD NO, MUH PRIVACY, YOU JACKBOOTED THUG, YOU WILLING TOOL OF THE OPPRESSIVE STATE! ARE YOU TRULY WILLING TO GIVE REPUBLICAN RACIST HOMOPHOBES THAT MUCH POWER??!!”Report

      • Jaybird in reply to DensityDuck says:

        I was more thinking “the money went from here to here and then from there to here… so we’ve stopped allowing transfers from the second place.”Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Jaybird says:

          Nah, the financial companies seem like they do pretty well with that already — as anyone who’s gone out of state and tried to make a large purchase can tell you, the credit-card companies are pretty good at spotting anomalous action — and it really seems like the way to handle this is on the phone side.

          But, as I said, that would require monitoring of the actual audio stream, and privacy fetishists won’t let that happen.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Jaybird says:

      My cell phone has a nifty call screening feature. The thing I’ve noticed is that when I get a call from a number I don’t recognize, I let the phone screen it. Doing so defeats 90% of autodialers (they hang up before the screening is done), and the 10% that make it through are unintelligible.

      But a person? A person listens and follows the instructions. It’s like a telephone CAPTCHA.Report

  6. jason says:

    Yeah, I don’t get how we can’t find some way to stop this. Hey, D’s and R’s, you want a sure fire way to win elections? Go after these scumbags. They have phone numbers–to spend gift cards they have to enter the numbers somewhere, or do they go straight to the stores? It’s just mind-boggling, that everyone’s (law enforcement, retailers, etc ) like “eh, fish it.”
    Retailers should have some kind of disclaimer (like the checker asking Jaybird) when buying cards online.
    It’s not just the elderly falling for this. My friend’s wife had a mess at her job because another guy fell for the fake email scam (the president or CEO of your organization sends you an email asking you to buy gift cards). I think they lost about twenty grand.Report

  7. Doctor Jay says:

    I just laughed when I got that one. But here’s the one that got me wigged out a bit: I answer the phone (an unknown number) and a voice wails at me, “Dad! I’ve been in a wreck!”.

    It was arresting, it was engaging. And yet, the voice didn’t quite sound like one of my daughters. In fact, it sounded male. So I replied, “That’s terrible! Who is this?” At the least, I needed to know which daughter.

    The voice continued with a bit more, “I was in a wreck and there’s a mess everywhere” and sobbing. I say, because I’m sure now, “I am not your father”. Hang up.

    It was unsettling. I still don’t know if was a misdial or a scam.

    ————————————————————————————————–

    Yeah, these phone scams can really hook you, if they hit the right fears.Report

    • fillyjonk in reply to Doctor Jay says:

      “Child/grandchild in Mortal Peril” was a common scam a couple years back.

      I remember one day I was waiting for my lab class to begin, and one of my students (who was also waiting in the student lounge near the lab) had his phone ring, and he answered it, looked puzzled, and said “Grandma, I’m on campus. I’m waiting for soils lab!”

      turns out she had got the “grandchild in jail in Mexico” scam call and decided to try his cell number – and as a result found out it was a scam. (She didn’t send money so she didn’t fall for it). But those people are scum, preying on people who (a) still generally trust other people (unlike me, who has a heart as black as coal and twice as cold) and (b) may not HAVE much money, so if they’re scammed out of some, it’s even worse.Report

      • JS in reply to fillyjonk says:

        My grandfather called me at work to verify I was not, in fact, in a jail in Florida.

        In his defense, the scammer managed to pick a correct first name for a grandchild.Report

        • Dark Matter in reply to JS says:

          My wife and I went to a Mentalist Show. He “knew” stuff. Names of relatives. Places of vacations. Pets.

          My wife asked me later how that could be and I answered “Face Book”. We’d put our names on pieces of paper. If he couldn’t find anything then he wouldn’t pick that person.

          This isn’t “knowing everything about everyone”, but it does let you pass a basic sanity filter.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter says:

            I compare that to South Park’s take on Cold Reading and I find myself vaguely disgusted.

            There’s not even any craft to using Facebook.Report

            • DensityDuck in reply to Jaybird says:

              I remember an Accidental Friend back in college who was very excited about mystical/occult stuff, and he convinced me to let him do a Tarot reading, and it was very interesting seeing him pull together my vague “yeah I guess” responses into a coherent narrative. If I’d wanted to believe, then I could certainly have found in the reading enough self-consistent information and logical reasoning to hang a plan onto.

              The interesting part, to me, was seeing how he bought into it. It didn’t occur to him what he was doing; he genuinely thought it was The Spirits Speaking.Report

      • Marchmaine in reply to fillyjonk says:

        We were just talking about this over dinner… the next phase might be a deep-fake video emailed to G’ma… a gun pointed to the head with a phone in the kid’s hand holding a message: DO NOT CALL ME.

        Besides the confidence tricks plus personal data, it’s about exploiting a generational technology understanding gap.Report

  8. Sinyet says:

    I am so sorry for your mother-in-law. Who among us can say our fears cannot be played upon? But taking her for medical checks only reduces her further. You say she is paranoid? Wouldn’t you be, if this single episode were treated by your loved ones as a sign of incompetence? How many 20-somethings have lost more money than they have in Robinhood? How many more will lose it all in Bitcoin? (How many will Elon Musk take down?) We all live in an age of fear and greed. The family should apologize to this human being, instead of diminishing her further.Report

  9. Saul Degraw says:

    These scams do not just come after the elderly via cell phones. A few years ago, scammers tried to imitate my boss at a law firm and get an associate to go out and buy lots of Itunes or Amazon gift cards and then send the money. Apparently law firms are frequent targets of scams because they get files via drop box links left and right. The thing the scammers realized is that people pay attention to the name on the e-mail address but not the actual email address.Report

    • fillyjonk in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      I’m old enough that I remember my graduate advisor getting a version of the “Nigerian Prince” scam via an AIR MAIL letter – on the flimsy blue paper and all.

      He speculated aloud to the lab whether it could be true, if he actually had money coming to him and I was like “IT’S A TRAP!!!” because my dad (same university) had received a similar letter a few weeks back and commented on how it seemed like a lot of effort to try to defraud people.

      I’ve gotten the “I’m stuck in a meeting and have to buy a gift card for (relative)” e-mail alleging to be from my department chair, which made me go “ha ha, as if I would do that for them” (and “ha ha, as if they’d ask me that”)

      there’s no shortage of scammers out there and I guess the scams work often enough to make it worth continuing themReport

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to fillyjonk says:

        The whole “Pay via gift card” is the modern version of wiring money via Western Union or by Money Order. I suspect the next step is that gift cards will start employing tracking data. I eagerly await the day when “the IRS needs me to pay my tax bill in BitCoin or the Marshalls will arrest me!”

        Scam artists encourage the development of ways to trace money far more than law enforcement and tax man desires do.Report

      • jason in reply to fillyjonk says:

        Yeah, we had those at our campus from the department chair and the president of the university. I don’t think anyone fell for them.Report

  10. Marchmaine says:

    Sorry your MIL had to suffer that.

    About a month ago my recently graduated daughter (23) got a call from folks telling her that they were on their way over to arrest her for money laundering — not her money laundering, but money laundering that other bad guys had done in her name, so a sort of ID theft that she would be responsible for — they had just enough personal info to make it sound almost plausible.

    By pure coincidence we’d had a discussion on her last visit about talking to law enforcement and getting arrested; I’d seen a youtube thing with a public defender and a cop about how simply saying anything without a lawyer present is a terrible idea. (Said here at OT as well) Interestingly one of the things the Cop said was an effective technique was to let the target have the idea that they could negotiate their way out of an arrest… said they would often give up all sorts of info just in that hope. The cop also reiterated that if there’s an arrest warrant… they are going to arrest you. So shut up and get arrested.

    Coincidental and fortuitous that I’d had that conversation with her and used that exact phrase: If you’re going to get arrested, it will ruin your day, but just shut up, get arrested and call your lawyer. So when the scammers called, she told them she wouldn’t talk without a lawyer and if they were going to arrest her, then come on over.

    She called me after hanging-up absolutely certain she was about to be arrested and wanted to know the number of the lawyer she should have ready. I told her she handled it perfectly, and good news… she wasn’t going to be arrested. It took her a couple hours at work before she stopped looking over her shoulder for flashing lights.

    It got me thinking that future scammers will probably trick me by combining a technology new technology I don’t fully understand plus the old fashioned con-artist tricks. I’m mentally steeling myself to resist the IRS Holograms that my BostonRobotics Dog will beam to me evoking fading memories of R2D2 and the need to heed their call.Report

  11. A few years ago I got a letter from “a lawyer ” saying that I’d inherited some money from a name I’d never heard of, and asking me to contact him. Of course I threw it away. After a week or so I got more or less the same letter, saying please help us wind up the estate. Now I was curious enough yo send a response, wondering what the next step of the scam would be.

    It was sending me a family tree and a check for about a thousand dollars. There really was a distant cousin who had died without a will or direct heirs, and according to the formula the UK uses in such situations that was my share.Report

  12. DensityDuck says:

    My grandmother got called by a scam-caller once who just straight-up said “I’m with the credit collection bureau, you owe four hundred dollars, give me your credit card number please”, and she did it.

    She said later “when I got out my card I wondered whether this was really okay, but I figured, better safe than sorry!”Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck says:

      I think a big part of it is people who grew up when telephone calls were expensive, and long-distance calls incredibly expensive, so much so that no “call everyone in the United States” scam could possibly pay off. So they honestly do believe that whenever someone calls you on the phone, it’s A) really important and has to be answered right away, and B) whatever they say is true.Report

  13. JS says:

    My kid, the first year he paid taxes, got an IRS scam call.

    He called me up and said “I’m like 99% certain this is a scam but….”.

    My advice was the same as it’s always been. First, if you actually owe money/tickets/fines/whatever they will contact you by mail. Second, they will never ask you to pay in gift cards or bitcoin. Third, anyone calling about anything will have specifics. Calls about “the warranty on your car” are scams. People actually calling about your car will know the year, make and model at the very least.Report

    • North in reply to JS says:

      Also I’m pretty sure than any call about a serious matter is not going to open with a canned message and a request to press a number to speak to a person.Report

      • JS in reply to North says:

        i was once super bored and let a scammer waste about 40 minutes trying to get my Apple password out of me.

        He was super, super unhappy about that. I think it was when I finally said “Wait, this is a Linux machine, does that make a difference?” after the 30th attempt to walk me through resetting my Apple ID and password when he started dropping obscenities and hung up. He seemed super mad that I was costing him money by not being scammed.

        These days I just answer the phone and stay silent, as real people will actually say things like “Um, hello?” whereas the robocalls will just….do nothing if no sounds are made, then hang up.Report

        • North in reply to JS says:

          Yeah my husband once answered the call and gave a scammer a piece of his mind against my advice. It was a mistake since the scammer flagged his number as “live” and he was absolutely deluged with spam calls. I stick to hanging up and blocking.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to JS says:

      It’s like having the Stranger Danger talk with your kids.Report

    • Dark Matter in reply to JS says:

      The IRS will also have a defined amount of money that they want, i.e. to the penny.Report

      • They will, in my experience, send a threatening letter telling *you* to contact *them*.

        What they will also do, in my experience, is reason “Two years ago, they took a deduction for a kids named Alex with a valid SSN. Last year, they took a deduction for a kids named Alex with the same valid SSN. This year, they took a deduction for a kids named Alex with an invalid SSN, which is the valid SSN with two numbers transposed. Obviously they’ve become criminals.”Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to DrX says:

      “It’s apparent these suspects were well organized and preyed on the victims’ fear of arrest across our nation,” the Fontana Police Department wrote in a post on Facebook.

      It says something that honest people are so afraid of the zealotry and indifference of LE & the CJ system that they can be scammed so.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

        “It says something that honest people are so afraid of the zealotry and indifference of LE & the CJ system that they can be scammed so.”

        Turned around: it says something that people have such faith in the incorruptibility of the American law-enforcement and criminal-justice system that they don’t think you could just give the cop a twenty and he’ll say “couldn’t find the dude”…Report