- Next story Apologia of Human Nature: Charlatans, Saints, Hoffer, and Burt Likko’s Query
- Previous story The People’s Court: Live-streaming the Supreme Court
Search
TEN SECOND BUZZ
- Open Mic for the week of 3/24/25March 24, 2025182 Comments
- Report: Trump to Sign Department of Education Elimination Executive OrderMarch 19, 20253 Comments
- Open Mic for the week of 3/17/25March 17, 2025238 Comments
- From The New York Times Editorial Board: The Authoritarian Endgame on Higher EducationMarch 15, 202550 Comments
- Trump’s CDC Director Nominee Withdrawn Before HearingMarch 13, 20254 Comments
Features
Hot Posts
Devcat Reports

Due to problems related to a WordPress update, the site's layout had to be moderately altered. Some of the changes are temporary.
HELP ORDINARY TIMES
Recent Comments
Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForIf they want that then they need to have police prevent the Protesters from shutting the U down and/…
Dark Matter in reply to CJColucci on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForIf they don't want politics to matter, then they shouldn't be threatening Jews and insisting that ev…
Dark Matter in reply to Michael Cain on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForThere is a vast difference between "a single narrative" and "a crack down on the idea that 'No Israe…
Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForI know: Columbia should appeal to the importance of the academy being a place where difficult ideas…
Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine VandalsIt hailed about 5 minutes before we left the theater last night. We walked outside and saw a half in…
CJColucci in reply to Dark Matter on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForThe word that does the real work is "academically." I don't share what you describe, and I haven't b…
Michael Cain in reply to CJColucci on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForAmong the things the administration doesn't understand is that every department is different. Differ…
Dark Matter in reply to Dark Matter on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForI have little respect for "process" arguments because we wouldn't apply them in other situations. Ex…
Dark Matter in reply to CJColucci on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came For"Disagreements" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there in the face of published department support fo…
CJColucci in reply to Dark Matter on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came ForIs there anyone in the Trump administration who is competent to say, or has any idea, whether there…

Comics
-
The Greatest Strike in History
March 30, 2025
-
March 28, 2025
-
They’re Acting Queer in Cleveland
March 27, 2025
-
A Loaf of Bread, a Container of Milk, and a Stick of Butter
March 26, 2025
More Comments
Michael Cain on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine Vandals
Dark Matter on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came For
Jaybird in reply to Fish on Sunday Morning! A Working Man reviewed
Fish on Sunday Morning! A Working Man reviewed
North in reply to James K on Open Mic for the week of 3/24/25
Dark Matter on Martin Niemöller, and Who First They Came For
Jaybird on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine Vandals
Dark Matter in reply to Dark Matter on Open Mic for the week of 3/24/25
Dark Matter on Open Mic for the week of 3/24/25
Jaybird on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine Vandals
Slade the Leveller in reply to KenB on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine Vandals
CJColucci in reply to KenB on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine Vandals
James K in reply to Brandon Berg on Open Mic for the week of 3/24/25
CJColucci in reply to Michael Cain on Open Mic for the week of 3/24/25
KenB in reply to Slade the Leveller on Weekend Plans Post: Pantherine Vandals
“You’re not always going to have an encyclopedia in your pocket.”Report
This has become a problem in a lot of disciplines and is probably worthy of a post. Much of the final testing in post-graduate work is complicated memory exercises. No one does actual work under the conditions of a bar exam, or a typical Ph.D. field exam. Calc I got me thinking the last time I taught it. In real life, a person can access Mathematica (or similar) software on their phone from anywhere in the world, and the software is enormously better at indefinite integrals than any human. Why does Calc I put such an emphasis on doing indefinite integrals by hand?Report
Why should someone who’s been through a Calc I course not be capable of doing indefinite integrals by hand?Report
It depends on the integral. I expect any decent STEM student should be able to integrate polynomials in their head. I expect them to understand how to juggle a few sines, cosines, and the exponential. That stuff is foundational. You shouldn’t need Mathematica for that — although as your formula grow, the advantage of software is you won’t make minor mistakes. It turns out Mathematica will never screw up signs. That’s a pretty big advantage.
That said, I wouldn’t drop something like the Dirichlet integral on someone without preparing them for that specific problem. It’s rather non-trivial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirichlet_integralReport
Supposed it’s not that way — integrals for polynomials, trig, and exponentials aren’t pounded into their heads. More emphasis on setting up and much less on solving. Applications like sketching the shape of functions using derivatives is tossed entirely. Go beyond the venerable TI-83 and use Mathematica or similar. Where do the students with a $100 device in their pockets suffer from not being able to do it on paper?Report
That’s a good question.
First, I’m not a professional educator, so I’m just kind of speculating here. There are people who research these kinds of questions as their job, so maybe I’m wrong.
I’ll say this, if you’re reading through a journal article, and you have to fire up your symbolic integration engine every time you see a basic integral, that is a kind of “cognitive load.” By contrast, if you just “see” the solution, without having to think much, then you’ll be able to hold more of the “higher level” concepts in your head at once.
For example, if you show me a weird double integral that includes the sinc function, multiplied by some other function — well if I’ve played with those integrals enough I might recognize that sinc behaves like a delta function, and what I’m seeing is a kind of Fourier transform.
Or I can just put it into Mathematica and it will spit out some answer with no obvious connection to the formula I put in, because there is a very weird path from sinc to delta to Fourier.
So now I’m thinking, “What the fuck? Why does that work?” By contrast, I could be thinking, “Oh yeah, that a delta function. Okay, now what are they doing with it?”
In theory, an instructor can show students how the delta function works, and how it leads to the Fourier transform. However, will they remember it? Will it get “baked in”?
Speaking for myself, I remember topics better when I’ve actually had to do hard problems, compared to ones I only saw briefly in lecture.
Moreover, I suspect there is a great deal of value in learning to “juggle layered, complex, abstract ideas.” It’s something that requires practice. It doesn’t just happen by magic. It takes work.
I’m sure there are many specific abstract tasks that one could use to train such mental faculties, but symbolic calculus is a pretty good one. We have a lot of experience teaching it. It’s useful in a lot of fields.
(That said, proving binomial identities, just to pick a random example, also exercises those “thinking muscles”, and is perhaps more useful in compsci. I’m open to many ideas.)
One might say that students can learn these skills by “juggling” the “layered, complex, abstract ideas” from their particular domain, rather than pure math. Perhaps. I don’t know. I think it depends on the domain. Physics — yeah probably. Economics — OMG yikes.
I have an analogy. When learning piano, you learn scales. Lots of scales. However, you don’t simply play scales in actual music. You do other stuff. I suspect, nevertheless, there is still value in drilling scales. I think “pure symbolic math” might play a similar role. It’s building a foundation of abstract problem solving that will be useful in any technical field.
That said, I also think graphical calculator are god-tier awesome. Moreover, I see Mathematica is a brain-force-multiplier. I’m very pro-tools.
I want both the “drilling basics” and the leveraging of awesome tools. Each has their place.Report
“Supposed it’s not that way — integrals for polynomials, trig, and exponentials aren’t pounded into their heads.”
Why should we expect that Calc I should not be that way?
What’s the point of Calc I, if not to be that way?Report
There’s definitely a post in there.
The Red Queen shows up in it.Report
The thing that gets to me about this final exam is that it is asking for the student to regurgitate trivia rather than solve problems or do any analysis. Memorizing trivia can be a big pain but it isn’t really a mark of intelligence or that you mastered the subject. A test should show that you can solve problems or analyze the facts.Report