Linky Friday: Among, But Not Of Edition
As always, all the pieces shared in Linky Friday are for discussion purposes only and are solely the opinions of the individual authors.
[LF1] Has the Maricopa County Audit Yielded Hundreds of Thousands of Votes? No. by Khaya Himmelman in The Dispatch
On April 23, Arizona Republicans began an election audit of 2020 election ballots from Maricopa County. Despite the fact that election results were certified in favor of President Joe Biden months ago, Arizona Republicans, peddling familiar election conspiracy theories, are insisting that Donald Trump won the state. Democratic Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs has called the audit, which is currently in process, a “farce,” according to CNN.
Despite multiple audits by Maricopa officials that found no evidence of fraud, the ongoing audit is looking at 2.1 million ballots and 400 voting machines for evidence of voter fraud.
In light of the Arizona audit, several Facebook posts have been widely circulating that claim several thousands of fraudulent have been found in the audit thus far. One such post says that: “Over 200 Thousand Votes Found So Far Today!”
This is a false claim.
At this time no evidence of voter fraud has been reported in Maricopa County from this audit. The official Arizona audit website has not released any information regarding the results
Senate Republicans have hired Cyber Ninjas, a Florida-based cybersecurity firm that has previously promoted baseless election conspiracy claims, to conduct the Arizona audit.
It’s worth noting that the Cyber Ninjas CEO Doug Logan was involved in a lawsuit in Antrim County, Michigan in December 2020, in which Trump supporters falsely claimed there were instances of voter fraud. Logan was listed as an expert witness in the case of alleged fraud in Antrim County after unofficial reports in the county were mistakenly reported due to a data-entry error. The Dispatch’s Alec Dent has previously explained the incident: “Antrim County revealed it had inadvertently misreported a number of votes in unofficial results, with state GOP Chairwoman Laura Cox claiming that the error was due to ‘tabulating software glitched and caused a miscalculation of the votes.’ However, Michigan’s secretary of state announced that it was not a software issue, but ‘user human error’ that led to the misreporting, and clarified that ‘the correct results always were and continue to be reflected on the tabulator totals tape and on the ballots themselves. Even if the error in the reported unofficial results had not been quickly noticed, it would have been identified during the county canvass.’”
[LF2] Why reforming qualified immunity will never resolve police violence by Cedric L. Alexander in The Washington Post
As lawmakers in Congress negotiate their long-awaited police reform bill, Democrats are sticking firm to their conviction that the legislation must include some type of reform of qualified immunity — the legal protections that make suing individual police officers for misconduct nearly impossible. For many on the left, that raises an important question: To what extent should they be willing to compromise on reforming the law?
It’s the wrong question to ask. As a 40-year veteran of law enforcement, from sheriff’s deputy to chief and director of public safety, I firmly believe that nothing federal, state or local governments do about qualified immunity will significantly reduce or increase the incidence of unjustified deadly force by police. Real reform requires us to go much deeper than tweaking tort rules.
I do not wish to dismiss the debate about qualified immunity. Indeed, the arguments against it are compelling. Some say it puts the officer above the law, at least civil law, by denying the families of those unjustly killed by the police their constitutional right to seek redress of grievance.
This is a legitimate point, but so, too, are arguments that immunity should be available when officers are called to account for split-second life-or-death decisions. Concern over financial liability should not be permitted to cloud an officer’s judgment at a critical moment.
And financial liability is a real concern. I am certain that the most committed supporters of the doctrine remain the majority of cities and other local governments that see the qualified immunity defense as an urgent budgetary matter. A report published early this year revealed that, over 10 years, New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles spent a combined total of $2.5 billion to settle lawsuits against police.
Put it this way: Taxpayers cannot afford the mounting direct monetary costs of the abuse of policing authority. Realizing this, city and other local governments have embraced qualified immunity not only as a means of defeating liability lawsuits, but also to manage liability itself.
[LF3] All of This Shit is High School by Freddie deBoer
People don’t dislike each other because of abstract politics or morals. That’s not how humans function. People dislike each other because of pure lizard brain shit, the kind of brute emotional entanglements that determined who you were friends with in elementary school. I’m something of an asshole so I’m never particularly aggrieved when people don’t like me. I can be a real dick. I make people feel insecure. I 100% get not liking me. What bothers me is when people dress this shit up with high-minded moral or political principle, pretending that they’re so elevated that they’re only motivated by abstract notions of the right and the good. Bullshit. You don’t like my style. You don’t like my attitude. You think I’m pretentious and corny and mean. Fair game, fair game, fair game. But don’t tell me our disagreements are political when they’re personal. I’m not saying you don’t disagree with some of the things I say. I’m saying that even if you didn’t you’d find a way to justify not liking me.
Oh you hate Glenn Greenwald’s politics? What is it specifically, you have a cousin who works for the Bolsonaro administration, or a deep respect for the operational integrity of the NSA? Hmmm? Or, perhaps – and hear me out here – you just think Greenwald is an asshole but you have a vague sense that that isn’t an adult reason to criticize someone so you’re coming up with a bullshit political pretext. Doesn’t that seem like a simpler, more honest explanation? Glenn is abrasive. Glenn is imperious. Glenn is unsparing towards the media that he (correctly) feels has failed in its basic civic duties. That’s why you don’t like him. And that’s OK. If you think he’s an asshole, call him an asshole. But this song and dance where you talk like he has Andrew Breitbart’s politics is a farce and you know it. Media people have always hated Glenn because he’s been very successful in journalism despite rejecting journalism’s professional and social culture. He is very much Not One of Us to them. They can’t imagine getting beers with him so he must be a reactionary. That’s all it is. And fine, fine. But let’s be honest about this fact, OK?
Is Bruenig Derangement Syndrome a product of Liz Bruenig’s unorthodox-but-not-really-that-controversial politics? Or the weird high school mean girl shit that rules politics and media? I suspect it’s because she’s openly religious – not out of rejection of her religious beliefs but out of breaking 21st century liberal social norms about hiding those religious beliefs. Someone will no doubt pipe up and say “But she said Bad Thing!” OK. But look deep within. Think about the order of events. Did you see her as a complete blank slate prior to Bad Thing, and after your opinion on her became negative? Or did you already have an inchoate dislike that you conveniently now define through Bad Thing? Is Briahna Joy Gray’s reputation more determined by her socialist and identity-skeptical politics, or by the fact that people feel she’s refreshingly hopeful/annoyingly chipper? Is Jeet Heer a lovable old liberal uncle, or a 400-tweet response to a question nobody asked? Not a political question! Is Aimee Terese strident or crazy? Not a political question! Is Rob Delaney everybody’s cool dad cause of his lukewarm politics or because he’s just cool? Do you want to hang out with someone who has great politics or someone who has great blow? LET’S GET REAL.
[LF4] Sohrab Ahmari and the Price of “Liberalism” by Robert Tracinski in The Bulwark
What is remarkable is not that Sohrab Ahmari tries to evade the entire history of classical liberalism, including the founding of America. That’s kind of his shtick. What is remarkable is that he thinks the average conservative reader will simply accept the omission. And judging from the fact that he is being published in a venerable old publication like the Spectator—and judging from what I’ve seen of the response—it looks like he’s getting away with it.
This is partly a sign of the intellectual decay of conservatism, a mass forgetting of its own intellectual foundations. But it is also a sign of the weakness of those foundations, a weakness centered on the old and seemingly irrelevant argument about the meaning of the word “liberal.”
This is the price conservatives are paying for long ago giving up on the term “liberal” and agreeing to use it to describe anything on the left, no matter how illiberal it might be. It is the price they are paying for giving up on defining their own philosophy as “liberal”—as a defense of freedom—rather than as a mere clinging to tradition.
That decision turns out not to have been merely semantic or terminological, but to have real, substantive consequences.
You may say, as the best conservatives do, that what you are trying to conserve is the American founding and its classical liberal ideas. But the act of couching your outlook as “conservative” has the effect of shifting your focus toward the preservation of the past as such and draws you into an ideological and political alliance with those for whom the value of liberal principles is secondary at best. It creates a political category that attempts to encompass the souls of both Thomas Jefferson and Archie Bunker—and ultimately cannot contain both.
That’s the crackup that is happening right now on the right. Archie Bunker conservatism—the kind that longs nostalgically for a past in which “guys like us, we had it made”—is trying to assert itself and views the classical liberals as an obstacle to be cleared out of the way. The easiest way to accomplish that is by defining us out of existence.
[LF5] Abandoning Afghanistan: Bad history and bad strategy in Biden’s Afghanistan withdrawal by Paul D. Miller in Arc Digital
There are no grounds for Biden’s claim that we have exhausted whatever gains our military can make against the Taliban. Unfortunately, Biden’s bad history makes for bad strategy. For example, he argued that “while we will not stay involved in Afghanistan militarily, our diplomatic and humanitarian work will continue,” specifically promising “to support the rights of Afghan women and girls” with civilian aid. But removing military support undermines the conditions necessary to make such promises meaningful.
To be clear, Biden’s rhetoric is welcome, considering the United States’s strategic partnership agreements with Afghanistan in 2005 and 2012 and its broad commitment to support human rights and democracy abroad. Bush and Obama both understood that functional governance and basic stability in Afghanistan were crucial to the U.S.’s overall war aims.
But Biden’s promise to support governance and development in a war zone without the military is magical thinking. Civilian aid programs do not simply happen when Congress writes a check or the president gives a speech. They require officials to administer contracts and grants, oversee programs, ensure transparency and accountability, and prevent waste, fraud, and abuse. These officials cannot do their jobs in a war zone without protection. Without security, aid programs are pointless.
Biden anticipated a related criticism about the interplay between hard and soft power in his speech. “I know there are many who will loudly insist that diplomacy cannot succeed without a robust U.S. military presence to stand as leverage,” he said. “We gave that argument a decade. It’s never proved effective.”
We did not “give that argument a decade.” The United States cut civilian aid every year since 2010, continuously shrinking the programs that were supposed to invest in Afghan partner capacity and hasten the day when the United States could responsibly exit. Earlier, Obama came close to combining a robust military engagement and well-funded civilian effort—and he undermined both with his public withdrawal timetables. Overall, both the civilians and the soldiers were given too little to work with, and then blamed for failing to achieve the impossible.
[LF6] The deregulation of beer and the rise of actually good beer, finally by Erik Kain
Trendsetters set trends. Beer-drinkers, desperate for beer that didn’t taste like a cross between water and piss, discovered craft brews or knew people who brewed their own beer and gradually craft brew spread from Portland and other hubs of the early craft industry to college towns across the country and now pretty much everywhere. Partly this was due to connoisseurs and beer evangelists spreading the good word1.
But it also has to do with states and the federal government deregulating the beer industry beginning in the 1970s and continuing throughout the 1980s.
Putting the kibosh on outdated beer production laws led directly to the rise of craft brewing and slowly gave way to the market landscape we have today. Remember those “bitter beer face” commercials? Those were a direct response from corporate beer companies to the rise of IPAs and the like. When that didn’t work, InBev and other massive corporate beer and drink companies started buying smaller brewers.
Carter made it legal for homebrewers to brew their own beer in the late 1970s (it’s still illegal to distill your own liquor, largely because liquor is taxed so high and the government wants that sweet, sweet tax money, but also for health reasons) and then in the early 80s’ states started legalizing micro-breweries and brewpubs. There’s still a web of distribution laws that favor huge beer corporations, but the climate for beer production has become much more friendly to small brewers and consumers.
All of which is to say that yes, there was a market for beer that wasn’t Budweiser and yes connoisseurs certainly helped spread craft beer to the masses and yes sometimes these types can be snobby and annoying, but really this is the direct result of the government backing off and allowing small businesses to compete with state-subsidized corporations at least a little bit. Not all deregulation is good for the world—environmental deregulation springs to mind—but it certainly can be, especially when it favors the little guy.
[LF7] The Cold, Hard Facts about the Liz Cheney Saga By Jim Geraghty at National Review
The fact that Trump told Fox News’ Maria Bartiromo that he was considering Florida governor Ron DeSantis to be his running mate is an intriguing indicator that Trump realizes other, younger Republican figures who are still in office are exciting the GOP grassroots. (By the way, under the Constitution, the president and vice president cannot represent the same state, but it would be a simple matter for Trump to move his legal residence to one of his other homes in another state.)
Trump is extremely unlikely to be vanquished and driven from the Republican Party in a grand conflict. Conflict is the oxygen that keeps Trump going — that and media attention, and the mainstream media loves to cover Republican infighting. It is in Trump’s instinct and interest to maximize the intensity of every fight with every rival in the party, real and perceived: Cheney, Mitt Romney, Mitch McConnell.
As we saw in the Georgia Senate runoffs, Trump doesn’t hesitate in the slightest in prioritizing his hurt feelings and nutty conspiracy theories over what the Republican Party at any given moment. He will happily enable more Democratic wins out of spite.
You know who doesn’t win when the intensity of every fight is maximized? The Republican Party and conservative objectives as a whole.
While it is inconceivable that Trump would lose a fight over control of the party now, it is conceivable that the air may slowly leak out of the Trump balloon, month by month, year by year. The news cycle, the political environment, and the national discussion moves on to other things. Tucker Carlson is filling the media’s giant need for a “You won’t believe what he just said” figure. You notice no one is asking what the former president thinks about the proposed infrastructure plans, Biden’s stance on any foreign-policy issue, how to persuade the vaccine-reluctant, or the potential for a bipartisan police-reform bill. Trump is, at best, intermittently interested in policy and usually not interested in the details at all. Donald Trump is primarily interested in Donald Trump. He wants the national discussion and the news environment to be all about him.
The Republicans can win a majority in the House of Representatives in 2022 with just the slightest wind at their back. The single best chance for Nancy Pelosi to remain speaker of the House is for the Republican Party to be consumed with infighting.
[LF8] The inside story of how we reached the Facebook-Trump verdict by Alan Rusbridger in The Guardian
The Trump decision was reached through the processes we’ve devised ourselves. A panel of five – with a good spread of regional backgrounds – did the initial heavy lifting, including sifting through more than 9,000 responses from the public.
The wider board fed in its own views. We looked at Facebook’s own values – what they call voice, safety and dignity – as well as its content policies and community standards. But we also apply an international human rights lens in trying to balance freedom of expression with possible harms.
In the Trump case we looked at the UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights (UNGPs), which establish a voluntary framework for the human rights responsibilities of private businesses. We also considered the right to freedom of expression set out in articles 19 and 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) – as well as the qualifying articles to do with the rights to life, security of person, non-discrimination, participation in public affairs and so on.
We also considered the 2013 Rabat Plan of Action, which attempts to identify and control hate speech online. We took into account a submission sent on behalf of Trump himself and sent Facebook 46 questions. They answered 37 fully, and two partially.
And then we debated, and argued – virtually/verbally and in writing. A number of drafts were circulated, with most board members pitching in with tweaks, challenges, corrections and disagreements. Gradually, a consensus developed – resulting in a closely argued 38-page decision which openly reflects the majority and minority opinions.
In addition to our ruling about the original and “indefinite” bans, we’ve sent Facebook a number of policy advisory statements. One of these concentrates on the question of how social media platforms should deal with “influential users” (a more useful conceit than “political leaders”).
Speed is clearly of the essence where potentially harmful speech is involved. While it’s important to protect the rights of people to hear political speech, “if the head of state or high government official has repeatedly posted messages that pose a risk of harm under international human rights norms, Facebook should suspend the account for a determinate period sufficient to protect against imminent harm”.
As in previous judgments, we are critical of a lack of clarity in some of Facebook’s own rules, together with insufficient transparency about how they’re enforced. We would like to see Facebook carry out a comprehensive review of its potential contribution to the narrative around electoral fraud and in the exacerbated tensions that culminated in the violence on 6 January.
And then this: “This should be an open reflection on the design and policy choices that Facebook has made that may enable its platform to be abused.” Which many people will read as not-so-coded reference to what is shorthanded as The Algorithm.
This Week At Ordinary Times:
Darth Vader Visits HR by Kyle Cupp
Darth Vader: Your powers are growing weak, old man.
HR [aggravated]: Age is a protected class as well, Lord Vader. I understand that you are under a lot of stress…
Mini-Throughput: Tumbling Chinese Rocket Edition by Michael Siegel
If you allow enough 20-ton Chinese rocket stages fall to Earth in an uncontrolled fashion, it is inevitable that something bad will happen.
Judge Strikes Down CDC’s Eviction Moratorium: Read It For Yourself
The CDC’s eviction moratortium has been been struck down by a federal judge as overreaching and beyond that department’s legal authority.
Letter to a Young Conservative by Avi Woolf
“You recently asked me what it is conservatives conserve and more importantly – what it is conservatives have to offer people like you.”
Wednesday Writs: Consent to Search in Georgia v. Randolph by Em Carpenter
SCOTUS, the 4th Amendment, and a case of “he said, she said” sets precedent for consent to search in our Case of the Week, Georgia v. Randolph
FDA Expected to Approve Pfizer Vaccine for 12-15 Year Olds
The FDA considers granting authorization for the Pfizer vaccine that is already in use for those 16 and up for children as young as 12.
President Biden Raises Refugee Limits: Read It For Yourself
After getting pushback over his earlier decision to drastically reduce entrants, President Biden raises refugee limits. Read it for yourself
With COVID-19, the Global South Again Bears the Crisis Burden by Saana Ali
We have asked the Global South to bear the brunt of nearly every crisis, from climate change to public health, but this is a chance to make some right calls.
The New Sumptuary Laws: Covid and the Return of Absolutism by Bradford Smith
The parallels between the sumptuary laws of old and the Covid restrictions of late are both revealing and instructive.
COVID, PCR and The Wrongness of Alex Berenson by Michael Siegel
A perfect illustration of what Berenson and others have been doing: making wild COVID claims contradicted by the very documents they cite.
Sunday Morning! Vertigo by Alfred Hitchcock by Rufus
In Alfred Hitchcock’s masterpiece the sense of vertigo is inspired by the infinite space between Self and Other.
Saturday Morning Gaming: Horror Games and Little Nightmares by Jaybird
I thought about some of the best horror games I’ve played. How horror video games get under your skin and Little Nightmares.
What’s Left Behind by Em Carpenter
Grandma’s house was my happy place as a child, as is the case for many people; grandparent magic is a known phenomenon.
LF2: Someone else who doesn’t get that no one thinks X is a silver bullet. Reforming QI so that it’s valid under a narrower set of circumstances (instead of the opposite case that exists now) isn’t a silver bullet, it’s just another tool in the toolbox that needs to be used.
LF5: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/05/06/afghanistan-biden-military-forceReport
Complex problems always have multi faceted solutions. The thing cop reform needs most is years of constant pressure. Reforms failed in the past because the spotlight went off reform.Report
If QI is the deal-breaker for a police reform bill, that is unfortunate, since it is just not that big a practical deal, either way, in the grand scheme of things. (For those interested in the gory details, UCLA law prof Joanna Schwartz has published a great deal of interesting research on this and related topics. FWIW, this is consistent with my own long experience in a job where QI is supposed to be a BFD. It rarely matters in my cases, and almost never leads to a different result than a straight liability analysis would.) N.B.: this isn’t the “not a silver bullet” argument, it’s the “doesn’t matter much” argument.Report
I think QI gets a lot of attention because it leads to shocking cases that make the press. It’s bad and should be limited but doesn’t represent the daily “minor” issues that plague law enforcement.Report
The problem with QI isn’t the interactions with police that a Grand Jury would not find indictable (and, therefore, a waste of taxpayer dollars to investigate).
The problem with QI is stuff like “cops stealing from people under color of law and then the courts saying that the guy who was stolen from can’t sue the police department because of QI”.
Like, not even finding for the police department after a court case. Just up’n saying “yeah, you can’t sue because of QI”.
Which sure as hell makes it look like “UI”.Report
QI is bad. But cases that involve it are the minority of cop interactions. BS traffic stops or stop and frisks are the bulk of cop interactions. Those destroy trust and are where cops spend most of their time being power hungry jerks. Need to change the majority of interactions to create downstream effects on the small.minority of cases. QI needs to go or be sharply limited but it’s just one part of the puzzle.Report
QI needs to go or be sharply limited but it’s just one part of the puzzle.
Oscar wrote a post about this!
There are so very many things that are broken that it almost feels impossible to fix.
But every single defense of QI that I’ve seen in the last year has had 90% “fixing QI wouldn’t fix that many problems” and only 10% “but QI is needed so cops can do their jobs”.
Would getting rid of QI break things?
This is a serious question. Are there things that would be broken by getting rid of QI?
If the list of things is smaller than the things that are currently being broken by QI (I can provide a list, if you’d like), then we should get rid of it because, hey, even if it only fixes a couple of things, it breaks fewer things than it fixes (as far as I can tell) because, as you point out, the majority of cop interactions don’t get anywhere *NEAR* QI territory.
And then we can look at the other half-dozen things that need to be fixed. One at a time.
And deal with the “but that one thing you’re looking at, one at a time, isn’t a silver bullet!” arguments as they come up.Report
So yeah QI needs to go or a massive fix. Agreed. You can’t do reform sequentially, there isn’t momentum to keep things going forever. QI, retraining, more bix for social services / MH, using alt providers for some thing all need to be a go right about now.Report
The best available research suggests that getting rid of QI would result in slightly more lawsuits being brought, that those lawsuits would move somewhat faster because you wouldn’t be making QI motions and their interlocutory appeals, and that very few cases would come out differently in the end. Though one potentially unfortunate result, from the point of view of plaintiffs, is that cases now thrown out on QI grounds — because the law is not “clearly established” — would go to the merits and end up with definitive rulings that the plaintiffs don’t have the rights they think they have. If QI is the dealbreaker on the pending police reform bill, that would be unfortunate. I would vote for the bill with or without QI and think it a good day’s work. But QI is, for some reason, the irresistible shiny object.Report
I think it’s because of shit like this.
And if people think that keeping stuff like that is not so bad that it’s important to prevent those slightly more lawsuits being brought, then they will find that they kicked the can of “getting rid of QI” down the road.
Remember the early days of the George Floyd thing?
Refusing to get rid of QI is like that guy saying “hey, we’re not going to charge the cop”.
Mike Freeman thought that that press conference was the end of the conversation. It wasn’t.Report
So let me repeat the actual question. Is QI a deal-breaker or isn’t it? If the bill comes to the floor without a QI provision, do you vote for it or against it? That’s the actual question facing people with real responsibility for results. Maybe you don’t want to answer it, but they may have to. Responsibility is a bitch.Report
At this point, if the bill has other, more profound reforms in it, no, QI is not a deal breaker.
But QI has to be at the very least reformed and more clearly defined. If not today, than someday soon. It just can not be allowed to stand as is. I honestly can not fathom how judges rationalized interpreting it as they did. Imagine if all criminal or tort law operated like QI does?Report
It’s a derivative of sovereign immunity which keep in mind applies to all government agents, not just law enforcement. And it makes sense in a world where the state and its agents have to constantly deal with hard calls and manage proverbial ‘no win situations.’ The government couldn’t function if its agents could be successfully sued for every exercise of discretion it needs to do its job.
Where the courts have dropped the ball is by interpreting ‘clearly established law’ to mean ‘some other court somewhere has decided that way on nearly identical facts.’ That or the facts are just so appalling that the judge is willing to set a new precedent which may well be reversed, and most of them don’t like that.Report
Yeah, that interpretation just boggles the mind. I don’t have a problem with giving agents some measure of immunity.Report
If Police Unions only argued for better pay, more vacation, and more sick time, only libertarian nutballs would oppose them.Report
For whom?
If you must, absolutely must, allow police to steal from the people into whose homes they’re invading under color of law, I’d say that the fact that it’s a deal-breaker for you to not include QI reflects more poorly on you than on me.
I also know that you will get sick of defending QI in the face of cops stealing from people before I will get sick of calling for its end.
So the question is: Are you willing to break this deal over how important it is to you to keep QI for cops who steal shit, Mike Freeman?
Because I am willing to say “this is not acceptable” for a good long while now… even in the face of you saying “I offered a deal! It was mostly good!”Report
Reading comprehension problem, Jaybird? I’m not saying that QI is a deal-breaker. I’m saying it shouldn’t be. I’ve said as clearly as I know how — and I know how to be clear — that I’d vote for the pending bill whether or not it has QI reform. You, by contrast, still haven’t said in plain English whether you would “break this deal,” to use your words, if you don’t get your way on QI.
I don’t think anyone else has had a problem understanding that. Why do you?Report
I’m saying that QI is one of the things that needs to be fixed.
And it will need to get fixed even if this bill doesn’t address it.
Is a bill that doesn’t go far enough better than no bill at all? Sure.
But after we pass the bill that doesn’t go far enough, we get to have the conversation about a bill that does.Report
So if the final bill came up without QI, would you vote for or against it? Or do I need to make the question simpler?Report
I would argue to the people writing the bill, beforehand, that they need to address QI.
And expect the people defending the bill not having QI to do so.
Like, before the vote.Report
Is there some reason you don’t want to answer the question? Obviously, you don’t have to, if you don’t want to, whatever your reasons. But there is probably some value in getting your unwillingness to answer it clear.Report
I don’t want to answer the question because I disagree with the fundamental premise that QI is something that is okay leaving off of the bill.
For some reason, people think that it’s okay to not include it.
I’d rather they argue why QI is so important to keep that it be kept out of a police reform bill than compromise on how it’s one of the things that would be okay to leave out of the bill.
Why are you so personally attached to QI that you don’t think that it’s important to include in a reform bill?
You yourself have pointed out that it doesn’t apply to the vast majority of interactions. Are its protections so very important that they overshadow the crimes committed in its name?Report
I mean, there’s a rhetorical trick I’ve seen before. I’m sure you’ve seen it too:
The bill needs A, B, C, D, and E to be the perfect bill.
A bill that has A, B, C, and D would be a good bill. As would be a bill that had A, B, C, and E. Or A, B, D, and E. Or A, C, D, and E. Or B, C, D, and E.
An *OKAY* bill would be one that had A, B, and C. Or A, B, and D. Or A, B, and E. Or A, C, and D. (I am not going to do all of the combinations but there are 10 of them.)
A mediocre bill would have only two.
A weak bill would have only one.
And so asking me if I’d be okay if the bill didn’t have D in it… well, I’d like to know what kind of bill it is.
Is it a good bill that has A, B, C, and E?
Is it an okay bill that has B, C, and E?
Is it a mediocre bill that has C and E?
Is it a weak bill that only addresses C?
If it’s a bill with A, B, C, and E, I’d be okay with D not being in it (but we’re going to be coming back to D soon, believe you me).
If it’s a weak bill that only addresses C, then it’s a weak bill. I suppose it might be better than nothing at all… But I’d rather fight for, at least, an OKAY bill than accept a weak one right out of the gate.
So when you keep asking me if a bill not having D is a dealbreaker, I don’t know what the deal is.
The trick is focusing on D without mentioning what the deal is.
Is the deal that I’m being offered A, B, C, and E?
Or am I being offered C?
What’s the deal?Report
You don’t have to agree or disagree with any “premise.” The current reporting is that QI is the big sticking point in getting the larger bill passed. It’s not a matter of it being “okay” to leave out; it may be the price of getting anything substantial done. And you can guess which side of the aisle most of the people who don’t want QI reform sit on.
That being the apparent fact, the practical question becomes do you insist on QI reform in the bill, and lose enough Republicans to lose the entire bill, or do you leave it out and pass the larger bill? This is what Max Weber called an ethic of responsibility, and it’s how grown-ups have to think about political questions. So if you had a position of actual responsibility, instead of a barstool, what would you do? What you’d “rather.” or what you think is “okay,” is neither here nor there. The question is what, in the actual circumstances, you as a — perhaps — responsible lawmaker do when called upon to vote yea or nay on the actual bill likely to be in front of you.
And to help clear up your recurring reading comprehension issues, I am not “personally attached to QI.” I have said a number of times, in plain English, that I disagree with recent trends in QI law (mostly the work of Republican judicial appointees), that it is insignificant in my practice, though I am in a line of work where it is supposed to be important, and that, in my experience and in accordance with the best available research, QI simply isn’t a big deal now and getting rid of it would not be a big deal either. Almost all the cases now decided on QI grounds would come out the same on the merits, except for a not-insignificant number that would flatly rule that litigants don’t have the rights they think they have, instead of punting on QI grounds and leaving hope for future litigants — something not good for plaintiffs as a class. So I do not think QI’s protections are “important,” for good or ill. If QI went away, I would not mind one bit. But, based on a couple of decades of experience in the area and a bunch of scholarly research, I don’t expect that it would matter much whether it did or not.
So how would you vote when push comes to shove?Report
So how would you vote when push comes to shove?
It depends on the deal that was being offered.
If the deal is “we’re going to increase police training budgets and not touch QI”, then, no just no but HELL NO.
If the deal is getting rid of no-knock warrants, police union reform, asset forfeiture reform, and changing the drug war? I would cheerfully say that that was a pretty good bill that I would support.
But demanding I answer whether a bill not having QI would be a dealbreaker without telling me what the deal is?
I’m afraid that I don’t have enough information.Report
If only there were an actual bill under negotiation that one could look at. Oh, wait:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1280/text#toc-H5A0B5A5505624C60B7132DBF904D86E8Report
Huh. There’s a part in there about reforming Qualified Immunity.
I wonder if including that part in the bill will be a dealbreaker for anybody.Report
It wasn’t for the House, which passed it, and probably won’t be for most of the Senate Democrats, though this isn’t something that can be passed by reconciliation. A non-trivial number of Republicans will have to sign on. Some of the Senate Republicans have said they have an issue with the QI provision, and the reporting I have seen suggests that this is the likely sticking point.
So now you can refer to the actual bill under consideration. If the price of getting the rest of the bill is dropping the QI provision, what do you do?Report
In the short term, force the Republicans to defend QI covering such things as the police stealing from people during a raid such as in the case we discussed last year.
Every single outrageous QI incident from the last 5 years? Ask about each one specifically in order.
And paint the Republicans opposed to QI reform as supporting the acts in each outrageous incident… say that them letting cops steal was a dealbreaker for them.
Maybe we can head off the hypothetical at the pass.
(Get Schumer and Pelosi to talk about these excesses as well.)
If it’s that particular bill or nothing? The bill is better than nothing and it should pass.
But that bill passing should not be the end of the conversation about police reform.Report
If it’s that particular bill or nothing? The bill is better than nothing and it should pass.
With your vote or without it?
But that bill passing should not be the end of the conversation about police reform.
I’m looking for the part where somebody said it ought to be. That aside, if you don’t have the votes to get QI reform through in a package deal, you won’t have the votes to pass a stand-alone bill. That’s Legislation 101.Report
The bill is better than nothing, sure. I would vote for it, under duress.
And I would name the senators who removed the language that would hold police accountable for the egregious examples.
But I’d also name them *BEFORE* the bill came to a vote. Try to get journalists to ask them “why did you remove the portion of the bill that said that police can’t be held accountable for stealing?”Report
See how easy that was?Report
The problem is now that the baseline for negotiation has been set.
So we get rid of the Reform QI portion of the bill.
Hey, would getting rid of the Accreditation of Law Enforcement Agencies section be a dealbreaker?Report
I haven’t heard that that provision is causing any trouble. Have you?Report
Oh, I haven’t. Not yet, anyway.
I was merely asking if getting rid of it would be a dealbreaker.
Would you flush the bill down the toilet unless it had the Accreditation of Law Enforcement Agencies section?Report
Haven’t given it any thought. Don’t plan to unless it becomes an issue. If you hear anything, let me know.Report
Ain’t that some stuff.Report
The point of removing it isn’t accountability, it’s to compensate plaintiffs victimized by outrageous state action, which the ‘clearly established law’ rubric all but prohibits.Report
Interesting if true:
I’m glad that we finally have a president that is putting Americans First.Report
This has been procurement law for Federal agencies for at least a decade if not more for lots of stuff. We can’t buy Toyotas made in Tennessee because its not an American Company. He’s just going to do more of it.Report
LF6: At the local grocery in the craft brewing heavy city where I now live, there’s a beer aisle: one side of an entire aisle is beer cooler. (In what I hope is a bit of intentional humor, the other side of the aisle is all the assorted yeast-based bread products.) Roughly half the aisle is craft brews, many local but some from farther away. A third of the aisle is imports and the big American brewers’ more exotic products. Down at the end are the nearly indistinguishable products that get most of the TV commercial time.Report
LF3 – This article would be wrong even in normal times, but these days it’s so wrong it’s bizarre. We’ve all seen people get along until they discover the other’s politics, at which point they start to hate each other. It’s not even enough to call this “documented”; it’s ubiquitous. Sure, some people don’t like each other viscerally. I don’t offhand know deBoer’s politics, but based on this article I wouldn’t go out of my way to read him again. And you know what, maybe he’s so unlikeable that people grapple with how to explain their repulsion and try to intellectualize it. But if his analysis is worthwhile, I’d read him. So I guess I’m proposing a both/and model, that you can alienate people based on your personality or politics.Report
As noted in previous threads within the last 6 weeks or so, Mr. deBoer seems to be oblivious to the logs in his own eyes.Report
Freddie is an ideologue which is part of it. Most of the rest of it is his personality. I like to read him, but he has…ahem…limited insight.
Further, when he got back on the webs after his break due to his own terrible behavior he talked about how he wasn’t cut out for the internet. He got back on slowly and cautiously since he knows he went to a bad place with it before. He jumped on substack for a good reason, money when he was unemployed. However this kind of piece by him suggests to me he is heading back to that same pissy flame throwing needlessly fight provoking bad place. I fear he has a only few months before he breaks and is entwined in dumb internet slap fights that will do his MH harm and not be good for anybody else.Report
See, that’s the weird thing. I’m an ideologue too, but that makes me more aware of the tension caused by political disagreements. I try to be polite, and often find people I disagree with more interesting, but you can’t spend any time online without seeing people get torched for having the wrong beliefs. Is deBoer left of center? He might just not have any experience with people who disagree with him. I can tell you, it’d be rare to fine a conservative who didn’t believe that people get attacked for their beliefs.Report
Fred is a communist by his own description I believe. He was a contributor here back when dinosaurs roamed the internet so he has some experience with differing views. He believes in hyperbole as a good style which I think is massively wrong. It’s the web everybody gets attacked for their beliefs unless they stay very tightly in a bubble.Report
He describes himself as a Marxist. The tirade is probably best understood in context of blue check/big media twitter. To followers of his writing (I am one) I think it’s clear that’s the world he’s talking about but I can see how it’s kind of confusing since he doesn’t expressly say it.
Personally I think he’s better when he doesn’t delve into the weeds of the Twitter wars but doing so is absolutely part of his persona.Report
He’s extremely left BUT he’s also extremely conscious of how modern identity politics don’t actually advance left wing goals and it makes him quite angry (and he’s prone to a kind of potent angry writing style to begin with). I’d strongly recommend you read more of his stuff. He’s quite a good writer and thinker but he can get drawn into twitter dramas easily and he really easily gets drawn into tilting at the decaying windmill of the modern media establishment both because he feels it deeply betrays its principles and because they loathe him (for being a better and more interesting writer than most of them are and for being an apostate to in vogue lefty shibboleths).Report
He’s extremely left BUT he’s also extremely conscious of how modern identity politics don’t actually advance left wing goals
Stop trying to make me like identity politics, Freddie.
Actually, the thing I hate most about identity politics is that I think of it as an attack on liberal capitalism. It’s an assertion that liberalism is a lie and that capitalism is fundamentally unjust in a manner that cannot be corrected without extensive government intervention, or even tearing down the whole system and starting over.
And personally, all the big identity politics zealots that I know IRL are pretty far left on economics. I know that the Old Left rejects race and gender identity politics in favor of class identity politics, but it’s just a slight variation on the same Mad Libs template.Report
I think this is misplaced. Far left economic views can exist in the spectrum of a healthy liberal society, and without a rejection of core liberal principles. There are plenty of places where they manifest as responsible-enough social democratic and green parties. You don’t have to agree with them or vote for them but they are committed to working within the system. And if they win then it’s their opponents’ job to figure out something better and beat them electorally. The modern form of woke-ism/IDP/whatever rejects liberalism altogether.Report
To expand on my point: Freddie is an economic leftist but he writes things like this:
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/what-are-you-12-theres-no-deserves
Which I believe speaks to his quality of thought and writing skill.Report
I loved his Perhaps We Cannot Do Both essay.Report
Also a fine one and especially indicative of his absolutely rock solid “from the left” criticisms of woke politics.Report
Of course, one of Freddire’s first articles was attacking all the supposed “elite journos” who started dunking on him on Twitter when he came back to Substack, including Sarah Jones, whose elitism consists of…writing consistently about the need for a bigger welfare state, unionization, and issues in rural communities that she came from, but since she doesn’t view part of the solution being the destruction of identity politics.Report
This is weirdly non-responsive to his article — you put “elite journos” in quotes as if he said that, but the word “elite” doesn’t appear anywhere. His article was about media culture and the in-group vs out-group dynamics of lefty journalists on Twitter — for this topic, her opinions about politics and policy are irrelevant.
If you’re basically just shouting “same team!” at him, then I don’t see offhand why you wouldn’t shout it at her as well, since he was (partly) reacting to her dismissive comments about him.Report
LF5 I just don’t get pieces like this. Clearly a plurality of Afghans are comfortable with or indifferent to the rule of religious fanatics, as long as they’re ethnic Pushtuns. Maybe (and I stress, maybe) the US could eventually break them of that preference by making it incredibly painful to continue to cling to it. However it’s clear it isn’t possible with the resources available nor is it a priority of the people, who still nominally hold power over the US government. While I am sure this is very hard for state department bureaucrats, spooks, and Wilsonian and Neocon ideologues alike, it’s time for them to get their heads into reality.Report
Is we leave Afghanistan it’s the final nail in the coffin of neocon and liberal interventionist ideology. Ideologically it’s pure acid on their tiny brains. It also is terrible business for the industries and government cost centers that grease their collective palms so it marks them as wrong in the eyes of history and scorches their finances. No surprise they hate the policy.Report
Very true. And if Biden can wind it down into a glorified charity project so forgotten that the fall of Kabul and return to pre-2002 status quo is a story for page A9 he’ll have done alright.Report
Yup. But they will do their level best to ISIS him.Report
LF6: So much for “Free as in free speech, not as in free beer.”Report
LF7: Shorter NR: Yes, Trump is a would-be dictator and if he can get his thugs better organized next time, maybe more than would-be, but talking about that would hurt u in the midterms.
AKA Better Hitler than Blum.Report
This is a story I didn’t expect to read.
When I heard about Bill and Melinda Gates getting a divorce, I thought of a handful of jokes (who didn’t?) and enjoyed the better jokes that others made (everything about Terms of Service to The Queen now being single to Jeff Bezos now being single) but didn’t give it much thought after that.
Hey. It’s Bill Gates.
But the story say that it’s about Epstein.
Now, when it comes to the story’s sourcing… well, the passive voice is used. Check this out:
Neither Bill nor Melinda revealed yet what led to the split. But a report that Melinda had been upset at her soon-to-be ex-husband’s connection to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein is speculated to be one of the main reasons, the Journal reported.
What the hell? Even the Enquirer would find that flimsy.
But, apparently, they both visited Epstein in his apartment back in 2013.
So… I’d kinda wish we had a journalist class that didn’t suck. Yeah, yeah. A million bucks would be nice as well.Report
Well, if you look at a recent pic of the couple, you can clearly see who’s “in charge” and who’s a beta.Report
Man, all this time we thought he was planting a tracking chip in the vaccination…She is implanting cuck software in it and beta tested it on him!!!Report
Good Lord Chip it isn’t even 5 in California and you’ve jumped straight to the 7-beers-in jokes.Report
I think Melinda’s been unhappy for years about the state of WIndows, and she finally just exploded.
“Viruses get propagated through your word processor. Your word processor! And it can’t even get columns to line up reliably!”Report
This is the one that had me snort:
Report
“I want to show you so much. If only I could find the Start button.”Report
Oh god… praying for a BSD…Report