Harsh Your Mellow Monday: Answer the Question Edition
[HM1] Charlamagne tha Great Meets A Guy Named Joe
Back on Friday presumptive Democratic Nominee for president Joe Biden did a long remote interview with The Breakfast Club’s Charlamagne tha God. It goes for 18 minutes but it’s this moment that got all the attentions:
“I’m not acknowledging anybody who is being considered, but I guarantee you: There are multiple black women being considered. Multiple,” Biden said of his search process for a vice presidential nominee.
It was then that an aide to the Biden campaign could be heard interjecting into the conversation, attempting to cut short the interview. “Thank you so much. That’s really our time. I apologize,” the aide said.
“You can’t do that to black media!” Charlamagne retored.
“I do that to white media and black media because my wife has to go on at 6 o’clock,” Biden shot back, apparently referring to a subsequent media appearance by Dr. Jill Biden, before adding: “Uh oh. I’m in trouble.”
“Listen, you’ve got to come see us when you come to New York, VP Biden,” Charlamagne said. “It’s a long way until November. We’ve got more questions.”
“You’ve got more questions?” Biden replied. “Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”
It took about 5 minutes for that soundbite to go viral, another 15 minutes for MAGAland to get it out on the distrolists, and by early afternoon Team Trump was selling “#youain’tblack – Joe Biden” t-shirts for the low, low price of $30 plus shipping and handling. No one can ever accuse Trump 2020 of not hustling. By the time the merch was hitting the Donald Trump website, Biden was calling in to a national conference call of African Americans businesses and apologizing:
Joe Biden has apologised for saying that if African Americans “have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black”, a remark which prompted a storm of controversy and fierce attacks from supporters of the president.
“I shouldn’t have been such a wise guy,” Biden said on a call with the US Black Chambers, an African-American business group, which was added to his public schedule. “I shouldn’t have been so cavalier.”
Biden also said he would never “take the African American community for granted”.
Thing is, uber-entitled lifetime rich white guy “put y’all back in chains“, “(Barack Obama)the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking“, “political lynching” Joe Biden saying highly problematic racial gaffes is not news. Note all those links go to stories headlined “Joe Biden Apologizes…” Seriously, if everything Biden hasn’t done up to this point didn’t bother you, this isn’t going to either. Either your mind is made up to vote for him for whatever reason, or you just refuse to Google things. Joe Biden has 40+ years of book on who and what he is, there are no new surprises. It’s viral, but it isn’t news. It’s loud, and will be repeated, but it isn’t news. Few votes are going to change over this, and it will have about as much impact as President Trump’s terrible “bloodlines” remark the day before that wasn’t exactly a bright shining moment in tolerant rhetoric, and the race will resume its default position till the next outrage du jour of “Anybody but Trump” vs “It’s Trump or the left”.
4.4 million 2012 Obama voters didn’t vote for HRC. Something like a third of those were black voters. Biden has to get some of them back if he wants to avoid HRCs fate. Is this a big deal in grand scheme of things? Probably not, but it sure doesn’t help cut into that 4.4M he needs to excite. It definitely looks bad to the number of black voters in that subset, which is why the Trump campaign is going at this so hard. The president doesn’t need to flip any of those voters, just needs them to be ticked off or indifferent enough to sit home.
Now that we got that out of the way, let’s talk about something important that this episode does show.
How is it Charlamagne tha God has pulled out of three different presidential candidates this cycle more interesting soundbites and insight into how the candidates think than a year plus of concentrated media scrutiny.
Senator Kamala Harris got headlines from her in-studio visit to the Breakfast Club. Pressed on criticisms, frankly unfair ones, over her “blackness” and having a white husband, the Breakfast Club interview got the viral treatment for Harris’ comments about what music she listened to while smoking a joint in college. The Twitterati was quick to point out her stated choices hadn’t put out music when she was in college, but the Breakfast Club defended Harris, blaming the clip as cross-talk between two different hosts. To be noted here, the accusation was of being insensitive to folks who had been arrested and jailed for doing the same thing Kamala Harris was joking about. Fair enough, but Charlamagne defended it, despite his own history having done jail time for possession of marijuana among other drug-related charges before turning his life around. If that was the offended demographic, someone who had skin in that game was sitting right there, and let it pass.
Senator Elizabeth Warren received even more attention for her trip to The Breakfast Club. Again, it was Charlamagne tha God that was doing the questioning, and wasn’t satisfied with the Senator from Massachusetts’ rout soundbite.
Oh wow. Discussing Elizabeth Warren’s past identification as Native American, @cthagod tells Warren, “You kind of sound like the original Rachel Dolezal” pic.twitter.com/NV5ybzJLVE
— Rebecca Buck (@RebeccaBuck) May 31, 2019
Why Do Democrats Keep Embarrassing Themselves on ‘The Breakfast Club’? Adam K. Raymond’s headline asks in New York Magazine.
Here’s the short answer: It’s one of the few places they run into anyone who actually asks them uncomfortable things.
The Breakfast Club, and Charlamagne tha God in particular, has a long history of viral moments with their guest because, in his own words, C “doesn’t hold his tongue for nobody.” In the business of promoting artists — which is why most of them are on the radio show, they are there to promote something — access journalism and being made to look good as part of showing up is the currency of the entertainment realm. Those viral moments come from stars that aren’t used to getting push back.
What Charlamagne exposes here isn’t just his own talent at interviewing, but how utterly worthless most news media and political reporting is. Much like entertainment, political reporting has become heavily dependent on access journalism. Who you know to feed you information is the key to getting certain stories, and staying connected to that pipeline means certain things just aren’t going to get reported. A good example of this right now is the VP silly seasons stories. Far more valuable than the “X candidate is interviewed, sources confirm” story is the way you can tell which outlets are plugged into which faction of the Democratic party by who they are giving what kind of treatment to.
Charlamagne knows this, having made a name for himself as the guy who will ask any one any question at any time regardless of who they or their representation are. The Breakfast Club and it’s nearly 100 syndicated stations are must-stops for Democratic candidates looking to reach the vital demographic of African American base of the party. They need him and The Breakfast Club more than Charlamagne needs them, and he brings a whole lot of give-a-damn to the issues he cares about. Professional journalists can wave the bloody shirt of “bias” all they want but no one seriously listens to that anymore. All humans have bias. Spare us the above-it-all nonsense. Charlamagne tha God has a bias, and uses it to great effect to interview people seeking power while still keeping it between the lines of being a great interviewer and a professional. More journalists, talking heads, and pundits should take note. The country — and political press in particular — would be the better for it.
I respect the heck out of Charlamagne tha God for saying what he thinks. There are a lot worse ways of doing things. Frankly, I’d take him as a debate moderator over a lot of the folks that will get that chair. At least with Charlamagne, I know what I’m getting: someone who wants answers to his questions, and isn’t afraid to insist on it.
[HM2] By Popular Demand, Let’s Talk About Kayleigh McEnany, Jonah Goldberg, and the Brady Briefing Room
Because Harsh Your Mellow Monday is nothing if not for the people, by request from the Twitter comes the question of this particular clip:
.@JonahDispatch says @PressSec Kayleigh McEnany’s behavior is “indefensible and grotesque” and that Trump wants a “Twitter troll who goes on [the] attack, doesn’t actually care about doing the job they have…” in a press secretary. pic.twitter.com/2cPZgVe0c5
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) May 24, 2020
What set off this particular tempest in the press teacup was The White House Press briefing on Friday:
McEnany had a short but contentious briefing with reporters after Trump announced that he was declaring houses of worship “essential” and urging governors to allow them to reopen.
She clashed with reporters on the lack of specifics regarding Trump’s announcement on houses of worship, and she later scolded them for not asking about allegations involving former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s case.
Reporters pressed McEnany repeatedly on what power Trump had to compel churches to reopen, which she dismissed as a “hypothetical.”
“The president will strongly encourage every governor to allow their churches to reopen, and boy it’s interesting to be in a room that desperately wants to seem to see these churches and houses of worship stay closed,” she said.Jeff Mason, a longtime White House reporter for Reuters, objected to her characterization, telling McEnany he’s “dying to go back to church.” He noted journalists were inquiring about whether Trump was encouraging churches to reopen even if it was not safe to do so in certain areas.
“Jeff, it is safe to reopen your churches if you do so in accordance with the guidelines,” McEnany said, referencing Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidance on the matter that had not been publicized prior to the briefing.
Which brings us back to the clip and Wallace’s displeasure and Jonah Goldberg saying “I think her (McEnany’s) behavior is indefensible and grotesque,” before continuing “What Donald Trump wants in a press secretary is a Twitter troll who goes on attack…Doesn’t actually care about doing the job they have, and instead wants to impress really an audience of one and make another part of official Washington another one of these essentially cable news and Twitter gladiatorial arenas.”
OK, let’s go through this mess slowly, and we will use small words for the folks in the back from Webster Springs: Setting aside the church debate because a) it’s a purposeful flashpoint and b) the rest of the following points will hold true about whatever tomorrows Brady Briefing Room Bonanza of Rhetoric topic is.Jonah Goldberg’s “indefensible and grotesque” is coming at it pretty hard and fast and lands in a crashed pile of ridiculous. Chris Wallace’s pining for the old days is just nostalgia. But Jonah is right about one thing: The president does want a “Twitter troll” at the podium. He is just wrong about that being a bad thing for Trump, who gets the medium and the moment better than this particular panel and a bunch of other folks.
Donald Trump might very well be the greatest Twitter troll in the history of the medium, certainly the most successful in making what he tweets manifest in real world reaction. He is president right now in no small part to his ability to bend the media narrative around whatever he mashes “send” on. The news media covering politics doesn’t have to do anything most mornings except wait for the president to spew something on Twitter, then react to it. Watch a network news show tomorrow morning, it’s the same thing every day. Lead story, probably coronavirus related, then throw to a story tying that back to something Trump did/said/tweeted. Next comes a video package of whatever Trump did/said/tweeted about. Follow that up back in the studio for a panel discussion on whatever Trump did/said/tweeted. That’s a half hour of air time done. Writers on their game can have their takes on the president’s tweets up by noon for the lunchtime social media spike.
And round and round it goes.
A huge chunk of American political media centers on Donald J. Trump tweeting. Because it makes life easy on everyone involved. That isn’t changing. Add in Trump’s true secret to media success — his constant feuding with the news media — which works because the thing the news media most likes to spend time covering is themselves. And whether instinctually or as part of a plan, President Trump just keeps feeding their need for more self-reporting cowbell tweet after tweet.
The truth is the traditional press briefing is as archaic as the phone booths ripped out during the renovations to the press center. No actual news happens or is broken, just viral moments that flash through a news cycle of something said. The White House Press Corps rarely if ever “breaks” a story. More often they are relying information given to them by whichever contacts they have developed best. Which is fine, but that’s access journalism, and we don’t need the dog and pony show press briefings for that. Besides, by the time the press secretary takes the podium everyone already knows what the president thinks in real time due to his Twitter account.
So, yes, the press secretary for the president who has mastered the medium of Twitter to control the press and gain power with his followers wants a “Twitter troll” at the podium because THAT’S WHAT HAS WORKED SO FAR. Wallace, Goldberg, and the rest have perfectly valid points about decorum, but the hyperbole about how disgusting and different from the past they find it all just plays right back into the president’s plan: they keep talking about him, 24/7, nonstop, in mediaspeak that most of the country just automatically tunes out.
Kayleigh McEnany is extremely smart. She knows exactly what her role at that podium is, and it is to keep the press mostly preoccupied with covering themselves. Which is why she shows up now to press briefings armed with the reporters’ own previous comments for when they come at her.
Decry it. Bemoan it. Condemn it. Wish for times that once was. But as long as Donald Trump is president, these are the new rules and you might as well get used to them.
Maybe the next president will change everything back to the way it was. But I severely doubt it. Because secretly, all that political news media and the public that watches it, likes it this way a whole lot better.
They just won’t admit that for the media and the consumer this is easier, and more entertaining. Which makes the press secretary not the only professional liar in the Brady Briefing Room.
[HM3] Intramurals, Rightside Bracket
President Trump not only has endorsed Tommy Tuberville for US Senate in Alabama to try and reclaim Jeff Sessions old seat from Sen. Doug Jones, but has spent the weekend Twittersaulting his former AG to make sure not-so Jazzy Jeff doesn’t make up ground against the former Auburn coach in the looming Republican run-off.
And the grift queen author of “In Trump We Trust: E Pluribus Awesome!” turned disillusioned Trump critic is not happy:
Trump didn’t build the wall and never had any intention of doing so. The ONE PERSON in the Trump administration who did anything about immigration was Jeff Session. And this lout attacks him. https://t.co/fIzHtmbOfR
— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) May 24, 2020
Poor Ann. Having found herself on the outs with her erstwhile champion means no more Hannity, Rush, Fox News, or any other MAGA friendly media hits. She is too much of a wackjob for regular media, and the remaining options just aren’t as high profile as the halcyon days when her law degree and blonde privilege would open doors for the studio shows and rain down the appearance fees, book deals, and the love and adoration of the wider rightwing media-industrial complex.
Too bad selling everything to ride the Trump wave doesn’t come with receipts.
Single tear for ‘Ol Ann, if you can even manage that much for such a shameless grifter of hateful hysterics.
[HM4] Intramurals, Leftside Bracket
It’s almost like 2016 didn’t happen, or at least too few people bothered to learn any kind of lesson from it regarding the most die hard of Bernie Sanders’ supporters:
The Vermont senator who dropped out of the Democratic presidential race earlier this year is asking his campaign delegates to sign a social media agreement restricting them from attacking other candidates, getting into heated online confrontations and talking to the media without approval, among other things.
Seriously, how many times do y’all need to see this movie before it sinks in how this works out? The core group that drives Sanders is never going to be a reliable voting block for the Democratic Primary. The feeling is mutual, as the Democratic party took “anybody but Trump” to its logical conclusion and turned out in record numbers to nominate generic-Democrat incarnate Joe Biden, in no small part just to prevent Bernie from getting the nod.
After getting nearly carte blanche to rewrite the primary rules for this cycle, Bernie did even worse. The progressive wing that likes Sanders’ unabashed democratic socialism has had just enough of a taste of mattering that they are not going to toe the line just because the party says so. With social media and impressive fundraising, they are only going to get louder. The question of this cycle was would all that noise translate into a surge of new voters? That answer was resoundingly no. Will that change in the next few years? Maybe. But with Bernie surely passing from the presidential race scene, it remains for whoever the next champion of democratic socialism is going to be, and if they can make more inroads. Or to be blunt about it, at least regain what Bernie lost between 2106 and 2020.
They should be warned, though. Their wing isn’t the only one that is going to be getting younger. Just by attrition the slew of over 70 candidates in this year’s primary will probably not get another go-round, either in 4 and certainly not in 8 years from now. All the arguments for the party rallying to a charismatic democratic socialist also can apply to a more traditional progressive that might be able to pull the party together without radically altering it.
But before that process happens, we still have a few more months of wailing and gnashing of teeth from those still feeling the Bern, and wondering what, in their minds, should have been with every Joe Biden gaffe. And if Joe loses, then it will be Katy bar the door for quite a while over on Team Blue.
Grab the popcorn.
This was an exceptionally good write up, Andrew, thank you.
HM1-3 really illustrate how hollowed out the media has become. It takes a retired rapper with no formal training to ask a politician a real question (and that’s not even getting into the exposure of these sad candidates as hot house flowers). The supposed pros in the press corps are utterly outmatched by appeals to social media. And the wingnut firebrand is persona non grata in right wing media because she’s too principled in her wingnuttery/has a memory of longer than 5 seconds.Report
How is it Charlamagne tha God has pulled out of three different presidential candidates this cycle more interesting soundbites and insight into how the candidates think than a year plus of concentrated media scrutiny.
It’s because Charlamagne had questions that he wanted answered instead of questions that he thought would do the best job of letting him ask questions again next week.
And that’s without getting into the conspiracy theory of what a journalism profession full of people with journalism degrees from journalism departments will get you.Report
It’s almost like the key to getting answers is asking questions.Report
Joe Rogan is in the same boat. They started as entertainers, made their money and are now able to ask questions without starting out beholden. For the most part, I find them uninteresting. But when they sink into the right place, interesting things come up.
There are some good journalists out there (Zeto, Taibbi) but they are few and far between. Most are either to young to know anything, or too old to assume they don’t.Report
To quote Wanda Skyes: “Biden feels at home speaking to the black community. He made a joke. Comedy ain’t easy, but he didn’t say 2 shoot Clorox in our tits. Now, I wouldn’t make a blanket statement to say that voting for Trump means you’re not Black. I’d say that it means you’re not smart.”
Mean while, Trump spend the weekend golfing with at least 100K dead. Well he wasn’t also golfing, he also tweeted conspiracy theories and petty attacks. But both sides do it must be maintained at all costs so we need to make a big deal out of an attempted joke.
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/24/21269020/trump-spent-memorial-day-weekend-tweeting-conspiracy-theories-and-petty-attacksReport
Verily I shall do as is said and not as is done.Report
“Now, I wouldn’t make a blanket statement to say that voting for Trump means you’re not Black. I’d say that it means you’re not smart.”
Neither black nor smart…
Someday, probably not 2020, the Democratic party is going to wake up to exactly the constituency Movement Conservatism woke up to. Lots of money and sinecures but surprisingly fewer votes than they thought they were entitled to.Report
You’re telling me that hunting for people flashing ‘ok’ signs one day and making excuses for racially charged jokes the next might drive the exact kind of nihilism we’re so worried about? Uhhhhh… check your privilege!Report
I’ve seen no excuses for biden’s being biden. I’m sure someone did but I saw a hell of lot of condemnation and then him apologizing the next day.Report
It’s weird for me, as a resident of Los Angeles and California to hear these claims of the Democratic Party not being in touch with some latent majority out there. In this state which is larger than some nations, a state which is as diverse and varied as the entire United States, the Democratic Party is the overwhelming preferred choice.
I get it, that plenty of people in other states prefer the Republicans and sometimes by a lot.
But to make the suggestion that it is the Democrats, and not the Republicans, who are the choice of an increasingly narrow and shrinking demographic pool seems absurd.Report
I think it has to do with political traditions in the United States. The Republican Party has advocated that it was the party of real true Americans since the end of Civil War, the North European Protestant America. The Democratic Party represented the outsider. It used to be White Southerners and White Ethnics, now it is people of color, liberal professionals, and non-Christians, etc.Report
Colorado’s blue swing became visible in the 2006 and 2008 elections. During the 2009 session, one of the Republican members of the state senate did a nice rant at the podium about “the Democrats are out of touch with Colorado voters.” Another of the Republican members followed him, saying something like, “I would like to remind the members who sit on the same side of the aisle with me that three years ago we Republicans held the governor’s office, a majority in both chambers here in the Capitol, both US Senate seats, and four of the seven US House seats. Today, of those positions, we hold three US House seats. I suggest that it is not the Democrats who have lost touch with Colorado voters.” He was one of my favorite state senators when I was working for the legislature — very much in touch with reality.
In the Mountain West more generally, in 2018 the Democrats flipped two US Senate seats from red to blue. If the current polls hold up, three more will flip this year. That would make the “score” 10-6 Democrats. Twenty years ago it was 13-3 Republicans. It is a strange time to be a Democrat in the Mountain West.Report
I thought from the context my comment was clear… perhaps not.
I’m not suggesting that tomorrow a bunch of disaffected democrats wake up and vote for republicans; I’m suggesting that when your party has an upward trend of disaffected members they will wake up and vote for a democratic candidate that answers their disaffection, rather than toe the line. I think democratic disaffection is trending upwards (and not all in the same vectors); once Trump is gone, nothing will surprise me with regards Democratic unity.
The lesson of 2016 isn’t that lots of folks switched to democrats, its that the Republican Party and the “Movement Conservatives” that set the agenda lost its base.Report
Every time I think “man, I should really stop posting my ‘three types of voters’ comment”, something like this pops up again.Report
Yeah… I’ll wait to see if this has more legs… we still have 6 more months of gaffes to get through.
Kinda funny, I googled Biden Apology to respond to Greg above, and I swear Google threw shade to the effect, “can you be more specific?” and started with a page full of Anita Hill apologies – like we were gonna start from the beginning and just work our way to Friday.Report
I think it’s this one:
As apologies go, it’s one of the better ones that doesn’t admit error.
The one that tripped me up was starting to google “Biden apologizes for Black” and the autofill completed with “Biden apologizes for Black History Month Menu” and I thought “oh goodness help us” but that seems to be some autofill chicanery as there doesn’t seem to be a Biden-related Black History Month Menu event.
Whew, I guess.Report
NAACP: Dude, you’re endangering our tax-free status. Just go back to your basement, we’ll talk about this later.Report
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Right now there are some cracks in the wall. Will it hold until November? That is what remains to be seen.Report
If I were looking for a counter-argument, I’d point out that Shaun King is currently undergoing being cancelled.
Which, of course, changes nothing about what he said… but given that he’s criticizing Democrats, it’s an opportunity for lefties to pick up the arguments that the righties have been using against him for the last decade.Report
And the worm Ouroboros lives in us all…
But, as the kids say, “interesting.”Report
Deep in that twitter thread was a link to this article that I think gets closest to the mark. It’s focused on black voters but you could make this observation more generally about Democratic politics and identity-based essentialism, epitomized by all the wokeness run amok.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/05/bidens-you-aint-black-comment-symptomatic
I think it’s consistent with March’s point above. The black vote is not going to turn Republican (or, despite what some might like, libertarian). Even where libertarianism has a salient critique of the problems in our system as a movement it has no solutions to the challenges of working people. But this is the issue with our politics writ large, especially at the national level. We have serious collective action problems that our system and parties are increasingly unable to address or even talk about in a way relevant to all the non-millionaires without seats at the table.Report
Thanks for the link… that was a very good article.
The thing about the Biden apology – which is what I was searching for above – is that it doesn’t deal with the fundamental premise of the critique/anger.
It’s tautological… I don’t take Black votes for granted because black votes are necessary for my victory.
Ms. Gray sums up:
“But he still hasn’t meaningfully addressed Charlamagne’s questions, taking for granted that he doesn’t need to to secure our votes. “The apology is cool,” Charlamagne said Sunday on Joy-Ann Reid’s MSNBC show, “but the best apology is actually a black agenda. . .”
The rest of the article is just baseline political reality… reminds me of the sensible Reformocon “hey, better makes some small policy corrections or you’ll lose your base” before they lost their base.Report
I’m still a bit confused about what the black agenda is, at least insofar as it’s a bargaining chip, or even leverage, in electoral politics. In 2016 black voters soundly rejected Bernie despite his advocacy for criminal justice reform, going so far as to launch very high profile attacks on his character. Black voters instead supported Hillary, who effectively offered them nothing.
In 2020 black voters had the opportunity to support black candidates or other candidates of color during the primary, but soundly rejected all of them in favor of Biden, who, like Hillary, promised them nothing in terms of advancing the “black agenda”.
If black voters don’t want their support for institutional Dem candidates to be taken for granted they, as a group!, probably should stop supporting institutional Dem candidates who take them for granted.
And I say that as someone who has suggested that the black community should effectively extort the Democratic party for policy concessions.Report
I think part of what the article is getting at is the flaws in the assumption that there is a unified black agenda now that we’re post 60s Civil Rights Movement. I read support for institutional Democrats as less about race (though it absolutely matters, especially where the GOP puts itself adjacent to positions similar to those that propped up Jim Crow) and more about the fact that the bloc that votes is older, southern, and religious.Report
Well, I certainly can’t answer that question.
I can offer an observation learned second hand from folks who work very closely with another minority group on political matters. The stories aren’t mine to disclose, so I’ll have to be circumspect.
But, one of the overriding aspects of working in politics with “leaders” of various parts of a coalition is that these leaders have built networks that are tied to institutions which in turn feed the network and increase the influence of the leader. For very prosaic reasons, at some point the leader’s role changes from representing the interests of his network to the political party to representing the political party to his network… lest the hard work of building the network and leadership is diminished.
It is at this point that discussing policies become secondary to advancing the party… which fuels the network.
That is, there’s *nothing* you can offer the thought leaders because they no longer represent the thought that made them leaders in the first place. The party must survive and from the Party flows the goods.
That’s the disconnect that happens internally and isn’t directly influenced by “the other side” ™.Report
I haven’t had a chance to RTFA, but one of my long standing thoughts was that the AA community shouldn’t run to either party, but back, vocally and financially, candidates that will support and work on the issues that are important to that community.
Anything else is a trap, the same trap they have been in for the last 50 years.
(As far as anyone turning Libertarian, it is, please to remember, a vector, not a destination.)Report
I get the vector thing. Hell I think the libertarian movement is the only one that makes a compelling, intellectually honest case against a number of abusive and asinine policies that disproportionately harm minorities.
However I also think the traction is going to be limited when it spends equal time on the case against all kinds of services and civil infrastructure on which working class people rely. I have a lot of libertarian sympathies but I do think there’s a real blind spot as to why a number of social programs were implemented in the first place. Conor Friedersdorf has written some good pieces about that.Report
Libertarianism is similar to Communism, NeoReaction, Progressivism, and that weird little fire-worshiping sect that still exists in the mountains of Iran insofar as it has really interesting insights and criticisms of the current broken system.
It’s when it gets to the “therefore, we need to” paragraph that you can safely put the book down.
Not because there aren’t some good suggestions in there!
But because they’re right next to some really stupid suggestions.Report
Here is the thing though. I disagree that there is an upward trend of disaffected members. What I think there is a lot of people looking at cosplaying bolsheviks online like Nathan Robinson and Brianna Gray and thinking it equals disaffected Democrats. It does not. Robinson and Gray were nominal Democrats when it looked like Bernie was in it but as soon as he was not, they dropped being Democratic like hot potatoes. The 90 percent of Warren supporters who said they would support whomever the nominee of the Democratic Party is, those are the party. Not Robinson, not Gray, not the Jacobin set, not the twitterati.
What is so controversial about the idea that Biden won the Democratic nomination because a lot of Democrats think he will be a good President and want him to be the nominee of the party?
Twitter is just a lot of noise. Nothing else. Biden told his staff to ignore twitter. Turns out this was good advice.Report
The concern I have is less that people like him and more that he’s the Bob Dole of the Democrats, i.e. the last grasp at the old unity before intra-party elements become irreconcilably fractured.Report
He does feel like Bob Dole, doesn’t he?
I’m currently in a place where I know that Trump doesn’t get re-elected and maybe he loses the Senate.
But I remember 2016. Here is where we were on May 26, 2016.
I thought that Trump was the xenomorph back then, apparently. (I used to be smart!)
For what it’s worth, I don’t think that today.
But we have 5 months and change until November, a global pandemic that is comfortably coalescing into a debate over whether or not hugs are owning the libs, China is this close to invading Taiwan, and economic numbers that are weird.
Given that we have about 300 news cycles between now and November, anything could happen.
But Trump is no longer the xenomorph.Report
Agreed. On the one hand he’s probably lost his biggest case he had for himself with the economy crash (Recession? Depression? Whatever we’re officially in). On the other the game seems to be really different than anyone anticipated, and my suspicion is it’s going to get weirder before it gets normal-er.Report
I hear you… but sometimes its the 47% in your own coalition you never see coming.Report
I disagree that there is an upward trend of disaffected members.
Saul, the context of this subthread is that the Dem nominee was white people’s third or fourth choice, but the first choice of a large majority of black voters who are now complaining that he takes the African American voting block for granted.Report
Biden is not popular among white liberals and leftists for some reasons. Warren fans have been better at growing accustomed to him being the nominee than Bernie fans because Warren fans tend to be actual Democratic Party members but even then, more than a few seem disgusted at having to vote for Biden. They simply can’t believe African-Americans went for a white man.Report
“He’s the best we can do, folks.”Report
Considering that Joe Biden had the best understanding of who votes in the Democratic primary and every other candidate kept making big missteps, he might be a lot better than you think. Bernie, Warren, and many others kept competing for the very online and failed. Biden told his staff to avoid twitter and go after middle aged or older voters via the traditional method and won big. That shows at least some intelligence.
Nobody ever made a persuasive case against Biden. They just say things like “He’s the best we can do, folks” but never explain who the Democratic primary voters should have gone for. The anti-Biden seems to have this weird idea that we can still select candidates in the back room deal way. Who should have the Democratic Party selected instead of Biden? Who?Report
Andrew Yang!Report
Now make a persuasive case.Report
He wants to get rid of the DST change.Report
I’m seeing why Yang failed to catch on as a candidate.Report
Biden told his staff to avoid twitter and go after middle aged or older voters via the traditional method and won big.
Nah. Biden had a lock on the African American vote, received a timely endorsement from Clyburn in advance of the South Carolina primary, then was the fortuitous beneficiary of his two main rivals for the moderate vote deciding to suddenly, unexpectedly!, end their campaigns.Report
I actually think the fact that this happened is a credit to the DNC. Whether it was the right call or not we won’t know until November but at least they made a decision with an aim towards winning.Report
Lee the only reason you think Biden is the best candidate is because he gets the most votes, and racks up the most endorsements, and polls the best against Trump and is the one most likely to win in November.Report
Exactly. Joe! is the best the Dems can do.Report
I’m sure you have all sorts of cogent arguments for why someone else should be the nominee, and I would probably agree with half of them.
But if this gets us a win in November, I (and I suspect about 63 million other Americans) am perfectly fine with that.Report
I mainly got on the Biden bandwagon because African-Americans supported him and they usually have very good political instincts. That and the cults surrounding Saint Bernard of the Green Mountain and Saint Warren of Arc were annoying me.Report
I’m on the Just Win, Baby bandwagon.Report
I believe part of the problem is that, while twitter is Not Real Life, every single journalist is on twitter.
Which means that, every day, every single journalist is drinking deeply from Not Real Life.Report
By that metric the media hated Joe Biden and should have been able to sway public opinion against him. Yet it/they obviously didn’t.Report
“Journalists” is a smaller circle than “The Media” but I’d say that “hate” is not the word I’d use.
I’d say that there is hate for Trump but all Biden got was the Just Another White Dude treatment when everybody knows we should, instead, prefer someone younger or blacker or femaler.
Biden was journalists’ fifth choice. That’s not hate. It’s just a recipe to have them all ask “how is the nominee Biden? I don’t know anybody who voted for him!”
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Well, you’re receding to a semantic distinction that doesn’t seem relevant. At least to me. If, as you claim, twitter informs journalists views on politics, and if (as was the case) twitter didn’t like Joe Biden, then Joe Biden should not be the nominee, yes?Report
Are we using “didn’t like” to mean “dislike”? Then I disagree with how you’re reading me. If we’re meaning it to mean “failed to actively like”, then, I guess I agree but I don’t see how you got from that and leapfrogged to “therefore Joe Biden should not be the nominee”.
It’s like pointing out that the sports writers all thought the Phillies would win and they’re all Phillies fans but the Yankees won.
The game’s outcome isn’t decided by the sportswriters. Even if they all know each other and talk to each other and explain to each other why the Phillies are a better all-around team. “Pound for pound”, they opine, “The Phillies are a lot better on paper than the Yankees.”Report
No, we’re talking about your claim that journalists are drinking deeply from “not real life” and why that’s interesting. I assumed you thought it was interesting because you think journalists have some power to shape public opinion outside of the Twitter-sphere. (Hence my comment that if they did Biden wouldn’t be the nominee.)
Is that accurate?Report
It’s not that I think they can shape it. It’s that I think that they should be able to describe it.
Twitter gives them a lot of garbage in.Report
“We should challenge these students, we should challenge students in these schools to have advanced placement programs in these schools. We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor you cannot do it, poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.” – Joe Biden, 2019
That’s an improvement over the old Joe Biden. In ’75 he said:
“I think the Democratic Party could stand a liberal George Wallace — someone who’s not afraid to stand up and offend people, someone who wouldn’t pander but would say what the American people know in their gut is right.”
Perhaps Joe Biden is the liberal George Wallace that America needs. ^_^Report