Disney’s Arbitration Maneuver: A Real Mickey Mouse Operation

Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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25 Responses

  1. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    As someone who watches Ducktales on Disney+ semi-regularly, I find myself wondering what I am now on the hook for and the extent to which I have signed away my rights.

    What if I get thrown from the Teacup ride the next time I go to Disneyworld?Report

  2. CJColucci
    Ignored
    says:

    In the mid-80s, I worked on an arbitration that involved three trips to Singapore and Malaysia. Although arbitration hasn’t been relevant to my practice since then, I still follow the appellate cases in my circuit and in the Supremes. Although I should know better, I am still amazed at clients’ willingness to throw good money after bad seeking to overturn arbitration awards because the arbitrator got it wrong. Since that’s not a permissible basis, they have to disguise what they’re doing, but it never works

    A few years ago, I had to explain this to a bunch of sports fans after the Second Circuit upheld the arbitrator’s decision in the Tom Brady Deflategate case. It was the rare case in which the trial court strayed outside of its lane and dug into the merits. (The judge, incidentally, was a high school classmate of Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel and Mrs. Simon was one of his teachers.) He made what I thought was a compelling case that the arbitrator was wrong, but the Circuit reversed

    My sports fan friends agreed with the trial judge and I had to explain that he was reversed because he gave the right answer to the wrong question — whether the arbitrator got it right. That simply isn’t a proper ground to overturn an arbitration awards. The Circuit opinion was short, sweet, and correct, but since this was probably the only arbitration case anyone but parties and lawyers would pay any attention to, I thought it was a missed opportunity to educate the general public by laying out the basics in more detail and explaining how judicial review of arbitration awards works and why. Normally, courts don’t do this because their normal audience doesn’t need it and they are very busy, but I still think it would have been usefulReport

  3. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    Apparently one of Disney’s defenses is that the restaurant was independently owned and operated and they were merely a landlord. This is the kind of argument arbitrators love more than juries or at least are usually more willing to entertain. Arbitrators also tend to award less generous damages.

    I’m not opposed to ADR but I think binding arbitration clauses in contracts of adhesion should be banned as a matter of law. Unfortunately, the right-wingers in charge of the judiciary do not agree and Corporate America still prefers it for all disputes. ADR is generally good for disputes between parties of equal bargaining strength who agreed to it being in their contract.

    Disney had to back down because they were the rare company that gets massive backlash for a move like this.Report

  4. DensityDuck
    Ignored
    says:

    Does anyone have a link to Disney’s actual filing where they make the claim? I’d like to see the language for myself, not just a “somebody said that somebody said that somebody said that they said this” summary.

    And besides, it’s been well established that there’s no reason to expect leeway when failure to closely read a legal document results in significant hardship.Report

    • Philip H in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      Accidental death due to negligence is definitely a significant hardship.Report

    • Em Carpenter in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      Which is why I never said at any point that failure to read the fine print was a valid defense.
      And no, I couldn’t find a link to the pleading or else I would have included it, like I always do.
      Nevertheless, the statement from the Disney rep pretty much confirms that people weren’t just making this story up.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Em Carpenter
        Ignored
        says:

        I can’t find it either but I did find the Plaintiff’s Response.

        From there:

        Nonetheless, on June 3, 2024, WDPR filed the instant Motion to Compel Arbitration and Stay Proceedings, in which it argues that the Estate of Ms. Tangsuan must arbitrate its claims because: 1) Mr. Piccolo, in his individual capacity back in 2019, allegedly agreed to arbitrate any dispute against WDPR by signing up for a Disney+ account on his PlayStation, and 2) Mr. Piccolo, in his individual capacity prior to his wife’s passing, used the WDPR website to purchase tickets to Epcot (which were never used).

        My question is how often Plaintiff’s Responses… oh, what’s the word… “overstate” things?Report

        • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
          Ignored
          says:

          A libertarian taking the side of big business … wonders never cease …Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
            Ignored
            says:

            Do you have the answer to the question?

            Because if the answer is “oh, it’s a bad idea to fabricate in the Plaintiff’s Response because that sort of thing tends to piss judges off and that sort of thing will color everything you present to the judge for the rest of the case and, if you’re particularly jerky about it, every time you stand in front of this judge until he retires”, then that’s pretty important information when it comes to how one reads the Plaintiff’s Response.

            Though, of course, if the answer is “it is *EXPECTED* to lie in the Plaintiff’s Response! The only person under oath is the person on the stand!”, then that’s another thing entirely.

            Do we have any lawyerly types who know the answer to the question I asked?

            (And, technically, I stopped being a Libertarian back in 2015. I wrote an essay about it.)Report

            • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
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              says:

              The question you asked was how often plaintiff’s lie in this situation. The answer is likely never, since that sort of thing gets tossed out of court (see Trump, Donald J and 62 losses in state and federal courts on allegations of voting fraud in 2020).

              Big business WANTS you and me and everyone else to think plaintiffs routinely lie however because then big business can et itself off the hook. And you seem to have fallen for their desire – which I find striking in your case.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                So, then, taking your answer at face value, we have a document that should answer the fundamental question at the root of everything.

                “Does anyone have a link to Disney’s actual filing where they make the claim?”

                We don’t have the filing where they make the claim but we *DO* have a response to the filing that summarizes the claim that was made *AND* we know that lying in this sort of thing gets the claim tossed out of court.

                So while we don’t have the original document, we do have something significantly better than a “somebody said that somebody said that somebody said that they said this” summary.

                We have a summary where the Plaintiff directly gave a document to the judge that talked about the claim made by WDPR… which we’ve established is most very likely *NOT* exaggerated.Report

            • Em Carpenter in reply to Jaybird
              Ignored
              says:

              I am a lawyerly type person and no, lying is not typical in this type of pleading. It references a pleading by the opposing party, which the judge would also have seen, so no, I do not think it likely that the plaintiff would have “overstated” the facts here. It would be crazy to lie about what was said in a document the judge can read for himself.Report

        • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
          Ignored
          says:

          Litigants lie or shade things all the time (in absolute terms, not proportional terms — sort of like car crashes, which happen all the time but not enough to keep us off the roads) and are often caught at it, frequently with devastating results. The particular statements involved here, however, are unlikely to be false because A identifies a specific filed document in which A claims that B said C. That kind of thing is too easy to check, so I would be inclined to believe that B did file a document saying C. What B is alleged to have said, C, is too straightforward to be spun, though putting forward a reasonable interpretation of language subject to multiple interpretations would be permissible spin rather than misconduct. So I’d be inclined to believe A’s version of C.
          The larger question is, I think, unanswerable with any precision.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck
      Ignored
      says:

      Here’s a copy of the defense filing.

      * the argument is that while Piccolo signed up for a Disney account so he could use Disney+, he would have had to sign up for a Disney account anyway to buy tickets online, so the fact that it was originally for Disney+ is not relevant. “signing up for Disney+ means they can murder your wife” makes a good headline but it’s not accurate.

      * however, the binding arbitration clause in the user agreement says: ““Dispute” includes any
      dispute…between you and us concerning the Disney Services or this Agreement[.]” (italics added.) The term “Disney Services” implies the online interactive aspects of WDPR’s activities, which are not at issue here; neither are the specific terms of the Agreement itself (the argument being that the Agreement does not apply, not that its terms are being disputed.)

      Based on the second bullet I’d say that WDPR’s motion to dismiss here should not be accepted, because the “binding arbitration” part of the contract only applies to web stuff and not to the actual physical experience on a Disney-managed property. (Disney will probably just re-file with the claim that they’re not at fault because they only leased the space to Great Irish Pubs Florida Inc, and include a copy of the lease which should clearly outline who is at fault for what sort of injury.)Report

  5. DavidTC
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m actually disappointed that Disney backed down for PR reasons, because people need to understand just how this sort of thing works.

    In fact, I heard everyone to have a fun little thought experiment of how far this could extend. What’s the absolute worst case scenario you can think of here, where doing something decades earlier could lock you into arbitration permanently?

    Maybe in 10 years, as society continues to move cashless, you buy food from a vending machine. Using a credit card. A vending machine that, when you purchase something from Nabisco, it pops up an agreement from them. 20 years later, they sell you actual literal poison, and you can’t sue them because you clicked I Agree on a vending machine.

    I’m sure it’s possible to imagine that you would be able to avoid situations like that, that you would never be dumb enough to do that, except… Y’all do know that almost everything you buy is from a megacorporation, right? And it’s purchased through either that corporation or another megacorporation.

    There is no one who can live their entire life without buying stuff from companies that would like you to agree to permanent arbitration.

    And hell, it doesn’t even have to be a company that you used. Oh look, the FedEx driver fell asleep and drove into your house due to the policies of FedEx, what you would really like to sue FedEx over, but, unfortunately, you once bought something from a company that ships using FedEx, and despite the fact that you didn’t even get it shipped via FedEx, when you sign the agreement with that company you agree to arbitration in any disagreement with a contractor of theirs, which FedEx is.

    People do not understand how dangerous and insane it is to allow companies to require people to waive the right to access the court system, and them attempting to extend that right permanently as opposed to the interaction you were in when you agree to the arbitration is just makes it much worse.

    Which is exactly why Disney backed off, this would look bad enough that what they are doing might get challenged in something done about it, But be sure that they will continue to use disputes that don’t outrage the conscience. The guy who booked a trip to Disney World and had his reservations at his Disney hotel canceled with no refund and no explanation, but he agreed to the Disney Plus thing, he’s the one they’ll happily screw over because no one cares enough, the story doesn’t sound bad enough.Report

    • CJColucci in reply to DavidTC
      Ignored
      says:

      I’m actually disappointed that Disney backed down for PR reasons, because people need to understand just how this sort of thing works.

      What disappoints me is that we have lost a chance at a decision that would say that this is not “how this sort of thing works,” which, I think, is how it would ultimately have come out. So maybe somebody will get away with it down the road because nobody put the kibosh on it here. But you can’t expect litigants to forego their self-interest in the larger social interest of getting rules settled.Report

      • DavidTC in reply to CJColucci
        Ignored
        says:

        I would just rather the entire structure by torn down.

        Arbitration is a reasonable tool for corporations. That’s what it was invented for, two companies that are aware a contract between them might need to be hashed out, specify an actual neutral third party that exists for that purpose in said contract.

        It is not a reasonable tool for people, at least not any sort of _advanced_ agreement. People should have a right to access the court system, period.

        In fact, I’d like to see a lot less ‘People having to agree to contracts to purchase things’. I thinkwe need new…sales terms? I don’t know what to call it, but there should be some reasonable set of expectations that just _exist_ when I do almost every transaction, and the fact a good percentage of them are pretending to be ‘contracts’ that I hypothetically have to pour over because they can insert random terms in is a serious problem.

        In fact, a good portion of those are either standard terms, or utter gibberish that will not stand up in court. (It’s funny how all software disclaims ‘fitness for any particular purpose’. Yeah, that’s not how that works. You can’t sell people things and say they do things and then later tell them what they bought might not do those things, no backsies! They try to go on and disclaim all liability for damages, again, not how that works.)Report

    • John Smith in reply to DavidTC
      Ignored
      says:

      Yes, thats trueReport

  6. Dark Matter
    Ignored
    says:

    This was less a serious attempt to move everything to arbitration and more an effort to pad billable hours. The question is whether that’s a deliberate effort by Disney to spend the other side into breaking.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Dark Matter
      Ignored
      says:

      Oooh, good plan! The lawyers should do the thing where they ask for a continuance next. When the judge finally says “no”, ask for a postponement. If that doesn’t work, ask for a stay of proceedings.

      Eventually, the other guys will just say “settling out of court is the best way to get paid”.Report

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