31 thoughts on “The East Palestine Crash: Reality Bubbles Through

  1. A useful (but perhaps not welcome) thing to point out is that this kind of situation is what those pipelines that were going to be Environmental Disasters were meant to avoid.

    Yes, David, I can see you typing, I know this isn’t the same chemicals that specific pipeline was meant to carry, and I know it isn’t the place where that specific pipeline was meant to go, the point is that pipelines don’t have to worry about derailments.Report

        1. You are comparing apples to ice cubes man. That derailment figure includes every rail operation from the Class 1’s – like NS – to the Regionals, shortlines, ports and industrial lines. If you narrow down to Class 1’s, NS had 112 derailments last year. That’s still not good, but a closer comparison.

          Also note your derailments figure doesn’t say how many spilled hazardous materials. Every pipeline rupture did.

          Here’s the reality – there is NO SAFE WAY to transport hazardous materials. None. And given that railroads hauled cargo over 534 million railroad miles (meaning moving a unit of cargo one mile by rail) its still the statistically safest way to move this stuff.Report

          1. “You are comparing apples to ice cubes man. ”

            …maybe government employees aren’t able to follow conversations more than two sentences long, but right there in the first comment I wrote “pipelines don’t have to worry about derailments”, so the statistics on “number of derailments in a year” seem awfully damn germane.

            Or maybe you’re trying to say “yeah but not every derailment is super bad” and you’re right, but not every pipe leak is super bad either!

            “[Y]our derailments figure doesn’t say how many spilled hazardous materials.”

            You know, you’re right. Let’s see if we can find some numbers.

            “[I]n 2022 alone, rail operators reported 337 hazardous material leaks or spills…[r]ailroad derailments counted for 1 in 10 hazmat wrecks in the last decade – and 1 in 4 of those incidents last year[.]”

            Welp, so that’s eighty-four derailments resulting in hazardous material spills in 2022. I guess you’re right that it’s not “a thousand”, but it’s still more than ten-to-one in favor of the trains.Report

            1. Here’s the reality – there is NO SAFE WAY to transport hazardous materials. None. And given that railroads hauled cargo over 534 million railroad miles (meaning moving a unit of cargo one mile by rail) its still the statistically safest way to move this stuff.

              Report

            2. From Today’s Washington Post:

              Chemical leaks while trains are in transit are not common. Hazardous materials were released in about 10 train incidents nationwide last year. In the past decade, releases of hazardous materials peaked at 20 in both 2018 and 2020.

              The number of hazmat incidents resulting from crashes or derailments across all modes of transportation fell to 80 last year, down from more than 360 a decade ago, according to records from the Transportation Department’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration. The largest share of incidents — 58 of 80 last year — occurred on highways, while the second-most share occurred on railroads. It is unclear whether chemical spills were involved in each case.

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/02/17/train-derailment-statistics-safety-damages/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F392707e%2F63efb5ff1b79c61f879897d1%2F59738e7cade4e21a848fe4b9%2F25%2F72%2F63efb5ff1b79c61f879897d1&wp_cu=5471d46db8b7f35fdd491ffd33791772%7C2AE372BEC443EE5DE050007F01004171Report

              1. *shrug* if you want to provide data showing that the number of pipeline incidents is not larger than the number of hazmat spills from train derailments, go right ahead, I’m certainly not going to stop you from supporting my argument.Report

    1. The following came out nastier than I intended. Apology in advance…

      So, build a vinyl chloride pipeline network? Does it have to be dedicated to that? Or are there things that can also be pushed through that pipeline, the way a variety of petroleum products share an individual pipeline, with different products requiring some degree of separation at the receiving end? There are at least dozens of chemicals shipped in large volumes by rail. How many of them can safely come into contact with each other? How many pipelines?Report

      1. (points to the part of the comment that says “I can see you typing, I know this isn’t the same chemicals that specific pipeline was meant to carry, and I know it isn’t the place where that specific pipeline was meant to go, the point is that pipelines don’t have to worry about derailments.”)Report

        1. I don’t dispute that. I’m disputing your implicit claim that pipelines can deliver the same large-scale transportation service of hundreds/thousands of industrial chemicals that customers demand and that rail provides.

          Heck, despite the volume of ethanol that needs to move between different parts of the country, no one can justify the cost of dedicated pipelines to move it (with small local exceptions).Report

          1. (points to the part of the comment that says “I can see you typing, I know this isn’t the same chemicals that specific pipeline was meant to carry, and I know it isn’t the place where that specific pipeline was meant to go, the point is that pipelines don’t have to worry about derailments.”)

            like

            the point of this is not the engineering design for a pipe carrying the specific chemicals that were on the train between the two specific points that the train was connecting

            the point is that people take it as given that Pipelines Are Horribly Dangerous And Damaging And Always Have Spills And Problems without mentioning that all the other ways have more problemsReport

  2. I’m not particularly interested in hearing caterwauling about this from the Republican Party

    Actually, I’m eager to see this accident hyped by Fox and the rightwing wurlitzer, with screaming reports all day every day, endless profiles of weeping people holding their dying dogs, and interviews with fearful people shrieking whattaboutthechildren.

    The more they terrify the public, the more it gets cemented into the public consciousness that industrial safety is a Big Concern and Something Must Be Done.Report

      1. It ties into the whole “we’re forgetting how to do things” thing that I worry at from time to time.

        Like… let’s say that you’ve got a complex system that requires a great deal of expertise to keep it oiled and running effectively.

        What does this expertise going away look like?Report

        1. We aren’t “forgetting” how to do anything. We still know HOW to do it. In t he case of Jackson – a majority black Democratic voting city in a largely white GOP voting state – the water system has been consistently underfunded at the state level on purpose for decades. NS has decided that keeping its profits up meant firing a third of its workforce over the last ten years, reducing track maintenance expenditures as far as the law allows, and then creating ever longer trains to move more freight so that they could demolish and sell off classification yards to further goose profits.

          None of that was forgetting. It was volitional decisions made in service of goals that don’t benefit the majority of the population.Report

              1. Surely someone will come along to give us context. Or at least more than 18 seconds.
                Though to judge from the Twitter replies, it won’t matter.
                I’m going to take a shower now.Report

              2. The link doesn’t go to, or have links that go to, whatever PB said, other than the anodyne stuff that was quoted in the text. I did manage to click through to the railroad derailment statistics, and it does seem that in the past 3 years they have been around 1,000 a year, down from the 1,200 in 2019. (Though it’s hard to tell how bad that is, given the amount of rail traffic. Probably someone, somewhere has calculated that.) And there are some useful links to regulatory moves that would likely have reduced derailments, all scuttled when TFG came into office.Report

              3. Sorry about only being able to find you articles quoting him. I’m having trouble finding the full clip of what he said on Yahoo Finance.

                They’re reporting that they interviewed him and including his quotations, they tweet out footage…

                But I can’t find the full clip.

                That’s malpractice on their part, if you ask me.Report

  3. Railway Age is a railroad trade publication, but it does a decent job of summarizing the business side of this accident:

    “NTSB investigators have identified and examined the railcar that initiated the derailment. Surveillance video from a residence showed what appears to be a wheel bearing in the final stage of overheat failure moments before the derailment. The wheelset from the suspected railcar has been collected as evidence for metallurgical examination. The suspected overheated wheel bearing has been collected and will be examined by engineers from the NTSB Materials Laboratory in Washington, D.C.

    Interestingly for an industry publication, the author throws Tucker Carlson and MTG under the train . . .

    https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/ns-ohio-derailment-under-investigation/Report

  4. Buttigieg also wants Congress to raise the maximum amount the DOT can fine railroads for safety violations. He says fines right now are so low that he’s concerned the big railroad corporations just write them off as a cost of doing business.

    “The maximum fine we can issue, even for egregious violations involving hazardous materials resulting in the loss of life, is just over $225,000,” he said. “For a multibillion-dollar rail company posting profits in the billions every year, it’s just not enough to have an adequate deterrent effect.”

    https://www.npr.org/2023/02/21/1158453029/buttigieg-railroad-safety-east-palestine-derailment-hazardous-chemicalsReport

  5. The right’s East Palestine demagoguery employs a widely shared graphic of an enormous chemical plume from a controlled fire burning off chemicals. This is meant to suggest a left-behind area victimized by a deliberately inflicted calamity, which is explicitly described in right-wing media as woke elite punishment for the Whiteness of its abandoned residents.

    For some on the right, it isn’t enough for this story to be about corporate greed, the need for bureaucratic reform, or which party is genuinely committed to investing in — and governing on behalf of — places like East Palestine. Instead, it must be transformed into a tale about racial malice, with White Americans as the victims.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/21/east-palestine-train-derailment-tucker-carlson-jd-vance-fox-news/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F392f4a1%2F63f4fdc21b79c61f87a0371f%2F59738e7cade4e21a848fe4b9%2F17%2F72%2F63f4fdc21b79c61f87a0371f&wp_cu=5471d46db8b7f35fdd491ffd33791772%7C2AE372BEC443EE5DE050007F01004171Report

  6. The Ohio AG has filed a lawsuit:

    Ohio has filed a federal lawsuit against Norfolk Southern over last month’s toxic chemical derailment in East Palestine, Attorney General Dave Yost announced Tuesday.

    Yost outlined the 58-count complaint, saying that Norfolk Southern violated numerous state, federal and Ohio common laws and violated the state’s Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA).

    “This derailment was entirely avoidable,” Yost said at a news conference Tuesday. “I’m concerned that Norfolk Southern may be putting profits for their own company above the health and safety of the cities and communities they operate in.”

    The attorney general went on to point out that the derailment “caused the release of over 1 million gallons of hazardous chemicals and it endangered both the health and area residents of Ohio’s natural resources.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/us/ohio-norfolk-southern-lawsuit/index.htmlReport

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