Travel Mask Madate Struck Down: Read It For Yourself

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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40 Responses

  1. Philip H says:

    Fifty nine pages that can be summarized as “I don’t see mask written specifically into a law passed in 1944. So since the CDC didn’t spend 18 months doing public notice and comment before issuing the regulation, clearly they are way outta line. And even IF they had done so – allowing Americans to die in record numbers well above the nearly million people we lost in the last two years, Congress clearly didn’t intend for them to do so cause the statute doesn’t allow the CDC to regulate interstate commerce.”

    Or some such bullsh!t.

    Though I note for the trolls that if this holds legally, then all the air filtration that’s been howled about as the “real” alternative to masking would also be illegal since the judge has decided that “Sanitation” refers ONLY to active cleaning with disinfectants.

    Were the DoJ smart (!) they’d ask for consolidation of all their appeal son mandates into the Washington DC circuit and get it settled whether the Executive has the authority to “Take care that the laws shall be faithfully executed” or not.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Philip H says:

      “I don’t see mask written specifically into a law passed in 1944.”

      emanations from the penumbra, eh?

      “if this holds legally, then all the air filtration that’s been howled about as the “real” alternative to masking would also be illegal”

      why did you think this was a useful thing to write?Report

      • Philip H in reply to DensityDuck says:

        No, its a summation of the judge’s own words. And I wrote the thing about air filtration both because I think its always been part of the solution but not in replacement for masking, AND because the judge decided the definition of sanitation so narrowly that the anti-maskers who defaulted to air filtration as a substitute would also loose in court.

        But you knew all that I’m sure.Report

        • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

          I don’t think you understood what DensityDuck was saying. He’s accepting the first sentence of your paraphrase but mocking the premise behind it. He was saying that the first question has to be, did the piece of legislation specifically address masks? If not, then you’re getting into interpretation of its meaning, in an attempt to reach beyond its text.

          Now, I’m someone who can accept that government may have to step in, and even overstep, in an emergency. It’s been about 20 years since our last one, and covid qualified. Covid stopped being emergent by June 2020. But this is a bit of a tangent.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Philip H says:

          “I wrote the thing about air filtration both because I think its always been part of the solution but not in replacement for masking”

          no, you wrote the thing to be a snot, to pretend to an Alinsky-style “make them live up to their own rules” sensibilityReport

    • Marchmaine in reply to Philip H says:

      My political advice, then, would be to push for better air filtration. But why fight the mask battle when you really *should* be fighting the air filtration battle? In fact, use the air filtration argument to ditch masks — make it popular. Dare people to challenge it in courts… more likely we’d just see $3 surcharges on large public venues for a while. Grumble, grumble… big win.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Marchmaine says:

        But large public venues have lobbyists.Report

        • Marchmaine in reply to Jaybird says:

          Which is why you trade masks for leverage against large venues.

          Politically I’d rather defend a massively popular air filtration position against special interests than defend the scientifically suspect cloth mask mandate against all the voters. Especially the voters in my coalition that have to wears the masks 9hrs per day so I don’t have to.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Marchmaine says:

            From what I understand, the pictures of politicians not wearing masks when the mask mandates were in effect were taken out of context.Report

            • Pinky in reply to Jaybird says:

              Dude, that broke you, didn’t it? We all break somewhere; that was yours.Report

            • Marchmaine in reply to Jaybird says:

              Right… I already had my TSA pre-check Mask card so didn’t have to care about everyone else missing their flights in long lines.Report

            • PD Shaw in reply to Jaybird says:

              The Democrats are running a mask hypocrite in my newly gerrymandered Congressional district. I expect to see a lot of picture of her without a mask at a Chicago party earlier this year with other Chicago pols. Also underlines that she doesn’t live in the district, she’s a Chicago carpetbagger.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to PD Shaw says:

                I wouldn’t have minded so much if the general response was “Holy crap, it’s awful that the politicians keep putting themselves in these situations. WEAR A MASK! IT’S THE RULE! IT’S NOT HARD!”

                It wasn’t.Report

  2. Saul Degraw says:

    1. On the one hand, Biden’s admin only extended the mask mandate until May 3rd and was probably not going to extend it much beyond that. If anything beyond that.

    2. On the other hand, the Judge who wrote this decision is a 34 or 35. Her education was mainly at extreme fundamentalist Christian schools. She spent most of her pre-judicial career clerking for right-wing Judges (including Justice Thomas) and the IRS. She had no trial experience. She was confirmed on November 18, 2020 by a vote of 49-41. The ABA considered her unqualified. She apparently has questions as to the constitutionality of paper money because the Constitution mentions coins, not paper: https://www.afj.org/document/kathryn-mizelle-background-report/

    The fact that there are people who question the constitutionality in the year 2022 of the Common Era is absolutely insane. I’m sure people will rush in and get cranky here.

    One day, a Trump firebrand Judge is going to make a decision that finds something like Paper Money unconstitutional and issues a nation wide injunction against the Federal Government printing paper money. It will create a lot of chaos before it is undone.Report

  3. Jaybird says:

    Believe it or not, the Senate voted to overturn mask mandates on airplanes back in March.

    This means that the vote went back to the House… where it languished. The conspiracy theory is that Pelosi knew that this vote would split her caucus and kicked the can down the road.

    WHEW!

    This problem got resolved in the best way possible.

    MattY’s take:

    And here we are. The judge did Biden a solid.

    Vax and Relax.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Jaybird says:

      Heh, I was in airports last week and it was mildly amusing to watch people holding cups of coffee, sodas and empty lunch containers as a sort of talisman to ward of Covid and the need to wear a mask.

      Reminded me of my TSA Pre-check status where I go through security likes it’s 1999… shoes on, bag packed and electronic devices stowed. I’m sure if there’s a next iteration, we’ll get something along those lines for masks.

      The ‘communal science’ of cloth masks vs. N95s will probably earn an aspiring HPS scholar their Ph.D.Report

      • PD Shaw in reply to Marchmaine says:

        We’re flying for the first time since the pandemic in a few weeks and my wife is glad they’re dropping the mandate cause she would lose her sh!t if the flight got delayed by a freedom mutiny. She’ll wear her mask, I’ll probably wear mine, but I’m sort of disappointed because I was curious to watch how many wore their masks, particularly those who wear it until seated, when they open a bag of nuts for the rest of the flight. People!Report

        • Marchmaine in reply to PD Shaw says:

          Yeah, I didn’t see any issues on the plane itself but it was only a 40-min flight from DC/NYC… now sprinkle in delays, missed connections and sitting on the tarmac for 1-3 hours? Plenty of masks would probably have been worn sub-optimally.

          Most of the ‘scoffers’ were in the terminal… and were probably dealing with delays and missed connections.Report

        • Slade the Leveller in reply to PD Shaw says:

          I just got back from Europe and there were no problems either way. Mask wearing was about as good as one could expect for 16 hours of flying. I gained a new respect for anyone whose job requires full-time mask wearing. It truly sucked.Report

      • John Puccio in reply to Marchmaine says:

        I took the Autotrain from Florida to Virginia this past weekend.

        Having a “mask mandate” on an 18 hour trip (where people 1. don’t need to wear n95s and 2. can legally remove their masks to eat/drink at their seat or when hanging out in the dining car) was pure theater.

        Of course, the people with any sense didn’t bother wearing them most of the trip anyway – especially when sleeping. If you are afraid of Covid, don’t take an overnight train. Period. Stop.

        The federal judge did Dems a big favor. Even Phil Murphy in NJ dropped the mandate today.Report

    • InMD in reply to Jaybird says:

      I actually think the court did Democrats a favor. The fewer visible reminders of pandemic the better for electoral prospects.Report

      • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

        There will still be elevated levels of death, but I suppose we can avoid looking at that.Report

        • InMD in reply to Mike Schilling says:

          I’m with Matt Y on team vax and relax. The masks made sense when there was literally nothing else. Now? Well, I think Marchmaine’s comment about the theory of masks versus the practice of masks is on point.Report

          • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

            I’m not getting on an airplane that doesn’t require them. Hopefully there’s enough of us that some airlines do and the whackos uncharacteristically refrain from making death threats.Report

          • Philip H in reply to InMD says:

            Mississippi is 51.7% vaccinated. The Governor canned off his last mask order in November. It hasn’t moved the needle. Matt Y may be right, but this isn’t going to move people who don’t want to be moved.Report

            • Marchmaine in reply to Philip H says:

              According to the CDC for Mississippi,

              81% of all people > 65 are fully vaccinated
              61% of all people >18 are fully vaccinated

              70% for the age group 50-64.

              That right there is a very successful vaccination program. In Mississippi – one of the least vaccinated states.

              I mean, if we want to follow the science and the actual risk metrics. Plus, the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread, so the benefits accrue to the vaccinated and there’s no particular reason to push for a herd immunity that even Mississippi should have if herd immunity were still a thing for this virus.

              https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/12130.pdfReport

    • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

      Good. There are a lot of lower court ruling arising out of the pandemic that seem to be overly restrictive of the Executive Branch. Might be best for that to get settled for a while.Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to Jaybird says:

      The Public Health Service Act of 1944 and subsequent laws and regulations give the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention the power to fight communicable diseases by, among other things, “sanitation” or related measures. The judge found a mask does not fall within the bounds of “sanitation.” That means, she wrote, “measures that clean something, not ones that keep something clean. Wearing a mask cleans nothing.”

      If you let that stand, the GOP will go ahead with its plan of stacking the courts with third-graders.Report

  4. Kazzy says:

    Anyone here regularly ride public transit? I do. I ride NJTransit and the PATH train every weekday and the NYC subway occasionally.

    I’d say masks have gone from near 100% with enforcement sometimes being needed and, when needed, sometimes being enforced rather forcefully (e.g., Transit police called on someone refusing) to probably like 75% on subways and 80-85% on NJTransit with some employees giving reminders and some clearly not caring (e.g., having a casual conversation with an unmasked rider and saying nothing about it).

    So, in terms of context, the mask mandate has been shifting on its own.

    To folks who are upset with this ruling… why? If your upset is primarily based on, “FOLKS NEED TO WEAR MASKS!” then let me ask A) why you think this should apply almost uniquely to public transit and B) if you voluntarily wear a mask anywhere? Almost every other mask mandate has been withdrawn so why are folks hanging their hat on this one?Report

    • InMD in reply to Kazzy says:

      We were on DC metro yesterday to take my son to the White House easter egg roll. Everyone was masked and there were signs everywhere about new air filtration systems. Seemed kind of silly especially since there were very few people riding, despite it being rush hour. Not sure if it’s connected to covid or just another sign of the seemingly endless death spiral the system appears to be on.Report

      • Philip H in reply to InMD says:

        Most of the federal government is still on maximum telework. My agency starts two months of return to work next week. Everyone has to be back to some sort of hybrid with a certain number of days in the office by mid June.Report

  5. j r says:

    Some of y’all really believe that masks are magic. Maybe it’s time that we did away with political talisman’s and learn to do actual risk management.Report

    • Philip H in reply to j r says:

      And some of y’all refuse to acknowledge the science that says they are one part of a several part solution.

      Take the much ballyhoo’ed air filtration – sure, you can get COVID particles out of common space air if you move it enough and force it through enough HEPA filters. Most commercial and governmental buildings in the US aren’t equipped to do this, and it would cost hundred’s of billions of someone’s dollars to make the change over (and take years). That wasn’t a practical response at the height of the pandemic, but all the science says masks were and are – with differing types of masks having differing effectiveness. Now that we have tested proven vaccines and apparently effective anti-virals, we can and should look at building air filtration. But again that’s gonna cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. So lets not toss masks as a solution just yet huh?Report

      • j r in reply to Philip H says:

        Right, there is an awful lot of science in this comment section. It’s just one long list of citations. Let me add to it. This is from the CDC web site:

        “Face masks or respirators (N95/KN95s) effectively filter virus-sized particles in laboratory settings. The real-world effectiveness of face coverings to prevent acquisition of SARS-CoV-2 infection has not been widely studied.”

        It’s that difference between laboratory settings and real-world effectiveness that matters. It’s the difference between making an informed decision about your own risk tolerance and taking the appropriate measures to protect yourself and pretending that waving the mandate wand somehow negates that need and makes everything safe. So yes, mandating that a plane/office/restaurant full of people wear loosely-fitting cloth and surgical masks, which they regularly remove to eat or drink or talk, and believing that this is the key intervention that divides a safe environment from an unsafe is not science. It is is magical thinking.

        There is more at the CDC site. The key takeaway is that there is a wide range of effectiveness between types of mask. So, I propose a simple test to tell how much people’s attachment to masks are about “the science!” and how much of it is a safety blanket or a means of political signaling. If masks are so important, you’re all wearing only properly fitted N95/KN95 or P100 respirators right?Report

        • Jaybird in reply to j r says:

          I have been arguing for N95/KN95 masks for a while now. (Here’s where we talked about it back in February.)

          I admit, “properly fitted” is a bit of a problem, given my beard but I do pinch the nose.

          I heard Leana Wen on NPR today talking about the importance of wearing N95 masks.

          Report